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(NPR)   Recount requested after SeaTac, Washington voters approve minimum wage of $15 an hour. Well, that's what happens when you get vote counters who are only paid $8.25 an hour   (npr.org) divider line 141
    More: Followup, Seatac, Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, best value, Alaska Airlines  
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3692 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Nov 2013 at 2:54 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-28 11:51:31 PM
Ah, market fundamentalism. This thread is full of it.

Legislating against market forces is futile and racist! Capitalism has no self-destructive tendencies and massive income inequalities created by market forces have never no historical precedent of creating social upheaval that led to massive amounts of pain and suffering, if not the continued existence of capitalism itself. Just let the market do it's thing.
 
2013-11-29 12:00:35 AM

jjorsett: rustypouch: Prophet of Loss: Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*

If there is no profit, why am I investing all my money and 80 hours of my time per week?

So I'm assuming you feel that a business owner is entitled to some return on investment if not, well then you're an uneducatable semi literate child and should hold your tongue while the adults speak.

That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.

1. We are talking about minimum wage, so its service jobs.

2. You can raise prices. Your competition is in the same boat and under the same pressures as you.

If your business acumen is so weak you can't pay a living wage and stay in business then maybe you should do something else and leave running a successful business to 'the adults'.

Yep.

If a business can't cover its cost, the model isn't viable.

This is the equivalent of saying if we keep piling weights on you and you eventually collapse, your body isn't viable. Everything can be stressed to the point of failure.


Your analogy is flawed. It isn't a burden on one business, its a burden on all businesses in the area. Business is about competition. There is no stress if the competition is under the same pressures.
 
2013-11-29 12:07:24 AM

Zeno-25: Ah, market fundamentalism. This thread is full of it.

Legislating against market forces is futile and racist! Capitalism has no self-destructive tendencies and massive income inequalities created by market forces have never no historical precedent of creating social upheaval that led to massive amounts of pain and suffering, if not the continued existence of capitalism itself. Just let the market do it's thing.


Made me respond, I'll give you a 2/10.

THE MARKET HAS SPOKEN
 
2013-11-29 12:13:48 AM

Ow! That was my feelings!: [blogs.ubc.ca image 850x850]


Never mind that that cartoon was drawn in 2009, and inflation has been at near-record-lows every year since then.

Oops.
 
2013-11-29 12:22:46 AM

aneki: And who in their right mind would want to put up with all the headaches of owning a business for minimum wage?


memecrunch.com

Won't somebody think of the poor franchise owners???
 
2013-11-29 12:33:27 AM
Too many secrets.
 
2013-11-29 01:50:42 AM
concernedcitizenscoffeecity.com
 
2013-11-29 03:00:22 AM

SCUBA_Archer: If business owners buy million dollar cranes to hoist 10 times the material that men could hoist previously, should they be responsible for increasing pay tenfold for the remaining workers in spite of their capital equipment outlay to keep that graph even?  It makes no sense.


Not necessarily a tenfold increase, but Adam Smith's famous 'Pin Factory' analogy says the remaining workers should see a pay increase, since they are producing the same amount with 1/10th of the personnel needed. The wage stagnation problem has come about because employers are cutting wages for the remaining employees and telling them to appreciate the crumbs they are dealt while funnelling the rest of that profit increase into the pockets of CEO's and upper management.
For example:
I used to work in radio. To make the math easy, let's say I was paid $10/hr to be 'on-air' for four hours a day. That's $200 per week. Now, with the invention of 'voice tracking' (pre-recording the parts where the DJ talks), I can record all content for the week in about 2 hours, which means the employer can get $200 worth of product (me) for $20 as far as straight-up hourly wage is concerned. Does that mean my contribution (talking about music and events) is worth less, simply because the technology makes it easier and faster to provide? I don't think so. Besides the product suffers when there's not a live person there to talk to listeners, give breaking news updates, and adjust the programming in real time. But I digress...

/The above is a gross oversimplification
//Also why I don't work in radio anymore
 
2013-11-29 03:29:51 AM

super_grass: Made me respond, I'll give you a 2/10.


Dude, shut up. You're one of the biggest trolls here. You don't get to rate other posts.
 
2013-11-29 03:32:31 AM

Klom Dark: Unemployedingreenland: I have a small business and employ about 35 part timers - all college and high school students.  We pay about 15% above minimum wage because I don't want to compete with McD's for my labor pool.  We have no direct competition in the area (we are a particular kind of family amusement business), but there is plenty of indirect competition - everything from other venue based entertainment options - bowling, movies, etc. - to gaming systems, Netflix, etc, to just hanging out at someone's house.  Labor is my single largest expense, and eats approx 35% of revenue.  We are also significantly more labor intensive than my indirect competitors.  Our margins are OK (15%-20%) - not great, but so long as we have a sufficient level of revenue, I can make a decent living for me and my family.

In my state, there is talk of raising the minimum wage to about $13/hr, which would increase my labor costs 50%+.  Regardless of business acumen, there's simply no way to pass that additional cost on to my customers.  We have particular "sticky" price points - $19.99 (no really), and $199.99 (again, really).  No matter how we sell, bundle or package things, once the cost per person hits $20 (or the cost per party/group/event hits $200), we see a significant dropoff in sales.  In other words, people seem to be ok with spending less than $20/$200, but there's a widely-held understanding that $20+/$200+ is too much and there's a visceral aversion to spending that much or more on what we offer.

So if my labor costs increase 50%, my margins go negative unless I can somehow overcome this $20/$200 issue (and we've been doing this long enough to understand that there's no handy solution) or reduce my headcount/make my business less labor intensive.  Since every employee is integral to our customer service, reducing headcount is certain to decrease customer satisfaction, which, all things being equal, impacts sales.

Simply put, we are a business that cannot survive a large spike in the minimum wage ...

Well, consider yourself lucky... I own a business that has no labor costs but my own time (Which I do not charge the company for...), have put thousands of hours into it for two years. Have spent time to list over 40,000 items (Collectable Sports Cards). It's free for anyone to list their items for absolutely free and in order to get people to just use the site not even currently charging ANYTHING to ANYONE, and still haven't made a damn sale. A miserable failure of a business that I do out of the goodness of my heart and also to fine-tune my skills as a developer/consultant.

TonsOfCards.com, check it out, nobody else does...


Have you thought of expanding to let people sell magic or pokemon cards as well?
 
2013-11-29 03:33:15 AM
Wow, the right-wing trolls are all attacking Whidbey. He must be correct.
 
2013-11-29 03:37:38 AM

whidbey: super_grass: Made me respond, I'll give you a 2/10.

Dude, shut up. You're one of the biggest trolls here. You don't get to rate other posts.


LOL
 
2013-11-29 03:38:19 AM

Klom Dark: Well, consider yourself lucky... I own a business that has no labor costs but my own time (Which I do not charge the company for...), have put thousands of hours into it for two years. Have spent time to list over 40,000 items (Collectable Sports Cards). It's free for anyone to list their items for absolutely free and in order to get people to just use the site not even currently charging ANYTHING to ANYONE, and still haven't made a damn sale. A miserable failure of a business that I do out of the goodness of my heart and also to fine-tune my skills as a developer/consultant.

TonsOfCards.com, check it out, nobody else does...


I did, and it's not very good. It looks like a lot of web sites do when their developer does all the work on one particular computer with a particular monitor in a particular lighting that makes him or her feel a particular way. I suggest you back up your site in its entirety, and then completely remove the CSS formatting to return to a totally neutral look and see what you still have. Some things I noticed that are uncomfortable to use: adding to your shopping cart should immediately put a price on the cart icon; drilling down into (for example) Basketball > 1990 > Fleer > Base Set is not how people want to browse; floating controls to the right are annoying especially since your site seems to demand a particular width; and although your popup caption effect is kind of fun, the text often appears offscreen or outside the background that makes it readable.  I'm sure your programming skills are up to par, so find a way to show them off.
 
2013-11-29 03:41:51 AM

super_grass: whidbey: super_grass: Made me respond, I'll give you a 2/10.

Dude, shut up. You're one of the biggest trolls here. You don't get to rate other posts.

LOL


Oh I'm sorry. By all means, don't let me stop you from continuing to post from the wrong side of history. My bad.
 
2013-11-29 03:47:38 AM

whidbey: super_grass: whidbey: super_grass: Made me respond, I'll give you a 2/10.

Dude, shut up. You're one of the biggest trolls here. You don't get to rate other posts.

LOL

Oh I'm sorry. By all means, don't let me stop you from continuing to post from the wrong side of history. My bad.


I'm almost certain that this is the work of some Andy Kaufman-esque genius meant to stretch Poe's law to its absolute limits. Shame on me for not getting this earlier.
 
2013-11-29 03:48:07 AM
Jesus shut up troll.
 
2013-11-29 04:00:23 AM
Whidbey

Consider that a troll spends all his time posting erroneous statements and trying to get a rise out of people. Either they're paid, and therefore they won't quit, or they live a sad and very pathetic life spending all their free time posting over-and-over again trying to get the last post and therefore "win" the argument.

Sad, pathetic people... so sad.
 
2013-11-29 04:21:22 AM

Weatherkiss: Capitalism simply will not work unless there's a way to off-set labor costs for the sake of additional profit. Whether it's slavery in the 1800's, child laborers in the Industrial revolution, or outsourcing labor costs to foreign countries who don't have to play by our rules in the present day -- they'll find a way to worm their way around having to pay additional money for labor.

Either we pay for it through inflation, or some chinese workers in sweatshops overseas pay for it through horrible working conditions making a fraction of the money we would.


So places like Germany that have equivalent levels of minimum wage, similar levels of unemployment, similar cost of living, similar levels of inflation and GDP growth during the last few decades while that has been the case means what to your hypothesis? Either most Americans are uniquely lazy and bad workers compared to the rest of the world, and therefore have to be paid less, or that you are talking complete rubbish.
 
2013-11-29 05:12:03 AM

Unemployedingreenland: I have a small business and employ about 35 part timers - all college and high school students.  We pay about 15% above minimum wage because I don't want to compete with McD's for my labor pool.  We have no direct competition in the area (we are a particular kind of family amusement business), but there is plenty of indirect competition - everything from other venue based entertainment options - bowling, movies, etc. - to gaming systems, Netflix, etc, to just hanging out at someone's house.  Labor is my single largest expense, and eats approx 35% of revenue.  We are also significantly more labor intensive than my indirect competitors.  Our margins are OK (15%-20%) - not great, but so long as we have a sufficient level of revenue, I can make a decent living for me and my family.

In my state, there is talk of raising the minimum wage to about $13/hr, which would increase my labor costs 50%+.  Regardless of business acumen, there's simply no way to pass that additional cost on to my customers.  We have particular "sticky" price points - $19.99 (no really), and $199.99 (again, really).  No matter how we sell, bundle or package things, once the cost per person hits $20 (or the cost per party/group/event hits $200), we see a significant dropoff in sales.  In other words, people seem to be ok with spending less than $20/$200, but there's a widely-held understanding that $20+/$200+ is too much and there's a visceral aversion to spending that much or more on what we offer.

So if my labor costs increase 50%, my margins go negative unless I can somehow overcome this $20/$200 issue (and we've been doing this long enough to understand that there's no handy solution) or reduce my headcount/make my business less labor intensive.  Since every employee is integral to our customer service, reducing headcount is certain to decrease customer satisfaction, which, all things being equal, impacts sales.

Simply put, we are a business that cannot survive a large spike in the minimum wage ...



Have you considered calculating the basic fact that an increased minimum wage means more disposable income which means increased customers/sales for your amusement business? You are not a fixed/essential service so you can only profit when people have left over money to spend on you after they have paid all their bills. In other words, you WANT wages to go up. You NEED wages to go up. If wages don't go up, there will be nobody around with any money to spend on your recreation.
 
2013-11-29 05:22:01 AM

whidbey: Jesus shut up troll.


www.buckeyeinteractive.com
 
2013-11-29 05:25:17 AM
In July 2007, the federal minimum was $5.15. In July 2009 it was $7.25, a jump of 41% in just two years. I don't recall any serious economic trouble during that time period.
 
2013-11-29 06:26:46 AM

Sim Tree: Have you thought of expanding to let people sell magic or pokemon cards as well?


I have, definitely. Do you know where to get lists of all sets for all years of those series? I need them to make the fast listing system work. (You have to log in to see that part) Without the lists I'm kind of stuck, most people do not want to list cards one at a time - it takes too long.
 
2013-11-29 06:37:01 AM

dangelder: Klom Dark: Well, consider yourself lucky... I own a business that has no labor costs but my own time (Which I do not charge the company for...), have put thousands of hours into it for two years. Have spent time to list over 40,000 items (Collectable Sports Cards). It's free for anyone to list their items for absolutely free and in order to get people to just use the site not even currently charging ANYTHING to ANYONE, and still haven't made a damn sale. A miserable failure of a business that I do out of the goodness of my heart and also to fine-tune my skills as a developer/consultant.

TonsOfCards.com, check it out, nobody else does...

I did, and it's not very good. It looks like a lot of web sites do when their developer does all the work on one particular computer with a particular monitor in a particular lighting that makes him or her feel a particular way. I suggest you back up your site in its entirety, and then completely remove the CSS formatting to return to a totally neutral look and see what you still have. Some things I noticed that are uncomfortable to use: adding to your shopping cart should immediately put a price on the cart icon; drilling down into (for example) Basketball > 1990 > Fleer > Base Set is not how people want to browse; floating controls to the right are annoying especially since your site seems to demand a particular width; and although your popup caption effect is kind of fun, the text often appears offscreen or outside the background that makes it readable.  I'm sure your programming skills are up to par, so find a way to show them off.


Ouch! It always hurts when someone calls your baby ugly, but it is kind of ugly I admit. :)  In my defense, the mobile interface is way better looking than the desktop site. (You can see the mobile site from a desktop browser by going to TonsOfCards/Mobile/Home/ - That's the new interface I've come up with lately and eventually want to replace the desktop interface with the mobile interface for everyone/everything)

But you make some valid points. I am suffering from the common "design done by a coder instead of a designer" effect and any feedback is good feedback. Not sure about your comment about demanding a particular width as it's all done using liquid layout so it should auto-adjust to any screen size. If anything it seems a bit sparse when viewed at too wide of a width.

I like your "immediately put a price on the cart icon" idea and will do that.

As far as the browsing, not sure how else to do it with the type of stuff I need to display. Puzzled how else you'd suggest I do it?
 
2013-11-29 06:50:50 AM
Equating a minimum wage raise to racism is a new one on me.

Good job, conservatrolls! You never cease to amaze me. I'd pay you over minimum wage for sheer amusement value, but that would imply you're black or another minority, and I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings.
 
2013-11-29 07:40:15 AM

Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*

If there is no profit, why am I investing all my money and 80 hours of my time per week?

So I'm assuming you feel that a business owner is entitled to some return on investment if not, well then you're an uneducatable semi literate child and should hold your tongue while the adults speak.

That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.


If your bidness model is based on your workers not making more than minimum wage, then you're a terrible bidness man with a product or service people are not willing to pay for and you should go out of bidness.

See: antebellum southern slave economy and causes of The Civil War.

Hint: We said No to the slave economy.
 
2013-11-29 09:27:47 AM

Ow! That was my feelings!: [blogs.ubc.ca image 850x850]


Average inflation rate from 1981-1985: 4.31%
Average inflation rate from 2009-2013: 2.15%

Just sayin'.

Bonus question:  Is negative inflation good or bad?
 
2013-11-29 09:30:06 AM

shower_in_my_socks: A low minimum wage is just another example of corporate welfare. Companies benefit from not having to pay workers a livable wage, knowing that the government will pick up the difference via social programs. Being against socialism, but also against raising the minimum wage, is like being against abortion, but not wanting people to use birth control either.


In other words, being a Republican.
 
2013-11-29 09:35:04 AM

Klom Dark: dangelder: Klom Dark: Well, consider yourself lucky... I own a business that has no labor costs but my own time (Which I do not charge the company for...), have put thousands of hours into it for two years. Have spent time to list over 40,000 items (Collectable Sports Cards). It's free for anyone to list their items for absolutely free and in order to get people to just use the site not even currently charging ANYTHING to ANYONE, and still haven't made a damn sale. A miserable failure of a business that I do out of the goodness of my heart and also to fine-tune my skills as a developer/consultant.

TonsOfCards.com, check it out, nobody else does...

I did, and it's not very good. It looks like a lot of web sites do when their developer does all the work on one particular computer with a particular monitor in a particular lighting that makes him or her feel a particular way. I suggest you back up your site in its entirety, and then completely remove the CSS formatting to return to a totally neutral look and see what you still have. Some things I noticed that are uncomfortable to use: adding to your shopping cart should immediately put a price on the cart icon; drilling down into (for example) Basketball > 1990 > Fleer > Base Set is not how people want to browse; floating controls to the right are annoying especially since your site seems to demand a particular width; and although your popup caption effect is kind of fun, the text often appears offscreen or outside the background that makes it readable.  I'm sure your programming skills are up to par, so find a way to show them off.

Ouch! It always hurts when someone calls your baby ugly, but it is kind of ugly I admit. :)  In my defense, the mobile interface is way better looking than the desktop site. (You can see the mobile site from a desktop browser by going to TonsOfCards/Mobile/Home/ - That's the new interface I've come up with lately and eventually want to replace the desktop interface with the mobil ...


Your mobile site is better.
http://tonsofcards.com/Mobile/Home/CardView/72debb52-740b-e211-8be4- 00 5056c00008 and click "Petey" takes me to a server error.
I suggest that if you're going to a sub-page with less than fifty or so total leaf nodes (like all of your non-baseball sport pages), don't break out more categories, just join the results. Try the path I suggested in my other comment and see that there is three clicks more than should be needed, you could show every basketball card you have on the first touch.  Don't feel bad, designing always has to be done over and over and over even when you're good at it.
 
2013-11-29 09:51:55 AM

dangelder: Klom Dark: dangelder: Klom Dark: Well, consider yourself lucky... I own a business that has no labor costs but my own time (Which I do not charge the company for...), have put thousands of hours into it for two years. Have spent time to list over 40,000 items (Collectable Sports Cards). It's free for anyone to list their items for absolutely free and in order to get people to just use the site not even currently charging ANYTHING to ANYONE, and still haven't made a damn sale. A miserable failure of a business that I do out of the goodness of my heart and also to fine-tune my skills as a developer/consultant.

TonsOfCards.com, check it out, nobody else does...

I did, and it's not very good. It looks like a lot of web sites do when their developer does all the work on one particular computer with a particular monitor in a particular lighting that makes him or her feel a particular way. I suggest you back up your site in its entirety, and then completely remove the CSS formatting to return to a totally neutral look and see what you still have. Some things I noticed that are uncomfortable to use: adding to your shopping cart should immediately put a price on the cart icon; drilling down into (for example) Basketball > 1990 > Fleer > Base Set is not how people want to browse; floating controls to the right are annoying especially since your site seems to demand a particular width; and although your popup caption effect is kind of fun, the text often appears offscreen or outside the background that makes it readable.  I'm sure your programming skills are up to par, so find a way to show them off.

Ouch! It always hurts when someone calls your baby ugly, but it is kind of ugly I admit. :)  In my defense, the mobile interface is way better looking than the desktop site. (You can see the mobile site from a desktop browser by going to TonsOfCards/Mobile/Home/ - That's the new interface I've come up with lately and eventually want to replace the desktop interface wit ...


Your mobile site is better.
http://tonsofcards.com/Mobile/Home/CardView/72debb52-740b-e211-8be4- 00 5056c00008 and click "Petey" takes me to a server error.

Aw crap, good find, stupid error on my part: Going to the wrong (old) URL, should be: /BrowseBySeller, not /CardsBySeller). Fixed. Thank you.

I tried joining all the results before and ran into performance issues with the baseball cards, but your idea about doing it only for the ones with less nodes is a good suggestion. Show many then allow further filtering will make that better.

Excellent suggestions, I appreciate it, thanks!
 
2013-11-29 10:23:12 AM

Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*

If there is no profit, why am I investing all my money and 80 hours of my time per week?

So I'm assuming you feel that a business owner is entitled to some return on investment if not, well then you're an uneducatable semi literate child and should hold your tongue while the adults speak.

That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.


THEN RAISE YOUR PRICES.
 
2013-11-29 11:03:34 AM

Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*

If there is no profit, why am I investing all my money and 80 hours of my time per week?

So I'm assuming you feel that a business owner is entitled to some return on investment if not, well then you're an uneducatable semi literate child and should hold your tongue while the adults speak.

That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then  there simply won't be any profits. they will become 57% of expenses.


/math, how does it work?
 
2013-11-29 11:06:25 AM

dangelder: In July 2007, the federal minimum was $5.15. In July 2009 it was $7.25, a jump of 41% in just two years. I don't recall any serious economic trouble during that time period.


Well there was no major economic turmoil after that minimum wage increase, or after the one before that, or the one before that, or the one before that but the next minimum wage increase will definitely cause the US economy to collapse into a dystopian hellhole. The GOP mouthbreathing economic prognosticators will finally be right this time
 
2013-11-29 11:37:03 AM

rustypouch: Prophet of Loss: Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*

If there is no profit, why am I investing all my money and 80 hours of my time per week?

So I'm assuming you feel that a business owner is entitled to some return on investment if not, well then you're an uneducatable semi literate child and should hold your tongue while the adults speak.

That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.

1. We are talking about minimum wage, so its service jobs.

2. You can raise prices. Your competition is in the same boat and under the same pressures as you.

If your business acumen is so weak you can't pay a living wage and stay in business then maybe you should do something else and leave running a successful business to 'the adults'.

Yep.

If a business can't cover its cost, the model isn't viable.


I bet you don' say the same thing about a government.
 
2013-11-29 11:44:45 AM

blgcountre: Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*

If there is no profit, why am I investing all my money and 80 hours of my time per week?

So I'm assuming you feel that a business owner is entitled to some return on investment if not, well then you're an uneducatable semi literate child and should hold your tongue while the adults speak.

That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.

THEN RAISE YOUR PRICES.


If he could raise his prices, he would already. Why would he care what his labor costs are?
 
2013-11-29 11:56:55 AM

Carousel Beast: rustypouch: Prophet of Loss: Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*

If there is no profit, why am I investing all my money and 80 hours of my time per week?

So I'm assuming you feel that a business owner is entitled to some return on investment if not, well then you're an uneducatable semi literate child and should hold your tongue while the adults speak.

That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.

1. We are talking about minimum wage, so its service jobs.

2. You can raise prices. Your competition is in the same boat and under the same pressures as you.

If your business acumen is so weak you can't pay a living wage and stay in business then maybe you should do something else and leave running a successful business to 'the adults'.

Yep.

If a business can't cover its cost, the model isn't viable.

I bet you don' say the same thing about a government.


Can we stop comparing the government to businesses?

Governments are inherently different from businesses and have explicitly different goals.
 
2013-11-29 01:22:26 PM

Carousel Beast: I bet you don' say the same thing about a government.


Governments aren't businesses. A business is trying to provide a product or a service to a target market for profit. Governments provide services equally to all people everywhere for public health and well-being.

When you run a government like a business, it is called Fascism.
 
2013-11-29 01:51:34 PM

Brainsick: SCUBA_Archer: If business owners buy million dollar cranes to hoist 10 times the material that men could hoist previously, should they be responsible for increasing pay tenfold for the remaining workers in spite of their capital equipment outlay to keep that graph even?  It makes no sense.

Not necessarily a tenfold increase, but Adam Smith's famous 'Pin Factory' analogy says the remaining workers should see a pay increase, since they are producing the same amount with 1/10th of the personnel needed. The wage stagnation problem has come about because employers are cutting wages for the remaining employees and telling them to appreciate the crumbs they are dealt while funnelling the rest of that profit increase into the pockets of CEO's and upper management.
For example:
I used to work in radio. To make the math easy, let's say I was paid $10/hr to be 'on-air' for four hours a day. That's $200 per week. Now, with the invention of 'voice tracking' (pre-recording the parts where the DJ talks), I can record all content for the week in about 2 hours, which means the employer can get $200 worth of product (me) for $20 as far as straight-up hourly wage is concerned. Does that mean my contribution (talking about music and events) is worth less, simply because the technology makes it easier and faster to provide? I don't think so. Besides the product suffers when there's not a live person there to talk to listeners, give breaking news updates, and adjust the programming in real time. But I digress...

/The above is a gross oversimplification
//Also why I don't work in radio anymore


Unless there is something significant about your personality/fame, or there is something wacky about the pitch and/or tone of your voice, what is preventing the radio company from hiring the next guy that will record voiceovers and bumpers for lower wages?  I think you proved my point in that the radio station, by investing in new equipment that doesn't require an on-air personality 24/7, can now get the work done for a lower price, because there would be (theoretically) more competition to do that work.  Also, with the Pop radio stations becoming the equivalent of an ipod set on shuffle, you no longer need a high priced DJ to spin records, when an 18 year old intern just has to hit play and walk away.  Tell me how that's not saving millions of labor dollars with new technology?
 
2013-11-29 05:31:16 PM

super_grass: whidbey: Jesus shut up troll.

[www.buckeyeinteractive.com image 325x203]


Does it really bother nobody else that the freakin' lawnmower is flying?

Freaky!
 
2013-11-29 05:58:08 PM

betasp: Lusiphur: And if labor costs are 40% of your revenue, and you aren't a high end consultancy, then you suck at business and deserve to close. I can't even conceive of a business that both employs minimum wage workers and has 40% of revenue tied up in labor cost.

Um, textiles comes to mind. Also a number of other manufacturing businesses..


and the hotel industry...      http://hotelexecutive.com/business_review/3183/labor-cost-models-asia- versus-north-america
 
2013-11-29 06:07:12 PM

Ishkur: .

When you run a government like a business, it is called Fascism.


*doing a horizontal aloha-hand-waggle-sorta-meh to this one*
 
2013-11-29 11:58:28 PM

neilbradley: I remember being paid $3.25/hr for my first job in 1985. That rate today is around $7.80/hr. So they're getting more than double the rate of inflation.


Try again...3.25 in 1985 is the same as 7.05 in 2013 buying power
 
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