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(NPR)   Recount requested after SeaTac, Washington voters approve minimum wage of $15 an hour. Well, that's what happens when you get vote counters who are only paid $8.25 an hour   (npr.org) divider line 141
    More: Followup, Seatac, Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, best value, Alaska Airlines  
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3692 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Nov 2013 at 2:54 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-28 09:27:03 AM
Whoever wrote that should be fired

Minimum wage was voted to $9.19 an hour while the city of SeaTac voted for $15 an hour for those who are employed by the airport
 
2013-11-28 02:56:13 PM
OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*
 
2013-11-28 03:02:10 PM
In before this is somehow a bad thing because reasons and furthermore.
 
2013-11-28 03:04:38 PM
blogs.ubc.ca
 
2013-11-28 03:05:26 PM

cman: Whoever wrote that should be fired

Minimum wage was voted to $9.19 an hour while the city of SeaTac voted for $15 an hour for those who are employed by the airport


It's a horrible, unworkable mess that probably won't stand up in court. If they had raised the city wide minimum to 15 that would be one thing, but that's not what this initiative says.
 
2013-11-28 03:17:49 PM
A low minimum wage is just another example of corporate welfare. Companies benefit from not having to pay workers a livable wage, knowing that the government will pick up the difference via social programs. Being against socialism, but also against raising the minimum wage, is like being against abortion, but not wanting people to use birth control either.
 
2013-11-28 03:31:25 PM

whidbey: OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*


If there is no profit, why am I investing all my money and 80 hours of my time per week?

So I'm assuming you feel that a business owner is entitled to some return on investment if not, well then you're an uneducatable semi literate child and should hold your tongue while the adults speak.

That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.
 
2013-11-28 03:31:31 PM

shower_in_my_socks: A low minimum wage is just another example of corporate welfare. Companies benefit from not having to pay workers a livable wage, knowing that the government will pick up the difference via social programs. Being against socialism, but also against raising the minimum wage, is like being against abortion, but not wanting people to use birth control either.


They are against that , too.
 
2013-11-28 03:31:35 PM
I remember being paid $3.25/hr for my first job in 1985. That rate today is around $7.80/hr. So they're getting more than double the rate of inflation.
 
2013-11-28 03:32:10 PM

shower_in_my_socks: A low minimum wage is just another example of corporate welfare. Companies benefit from not having to pay workers a livable wage, knowing that the government will pick up the difference via social programs. Being against socialism, but also against raising the minimum wage, is like being against abortion, but not wanting people to use birth control either.


So being Catholic?
 
2013-11-28 03:32:15 PM
Capitalism simply will not work unless there's a way to off-set labor costs for the sake of additional profit. Whether it's slavery in the 1800's, child laborers in the Industrial revolution, or outsourcing labor costs to foreign countries who don't have to play by our rules in the present day -- they'll find a way to worm their way around having to pay additional money for labor.

Either we pay for it through inflation, or some chinese workers in sweatshops overseas pay for it through horrible working conditions making a fraction of the money we would.
 
2013-11-28 03:32:44 PM

Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*

If there is no profit, why am I investing all my money and 80 hours of my time per week?

So I'm assuming you feel that a business owner is entitled to some return on investment if not, well then you're an uneducatable semi literate child and should hold your tongue while the adults speak.

That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.


Think of all the new people with higher wages who can suddenly afford your product/ service.
 
2013-11-28 03:33:33 PM

neilbradley: I remember being paid $3.25/hr for my first job in 1985. That rate today is around $7.80/hr. So they're getting more than double the rate of inflation.


Oooooooh, this one is good.
 
2013-11-28 03:34:13 PM

vicioushobbit: Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*

If there is no profit, why am I investing all my money and 80 hours of my time per week?

So I'm assuming you feel that a business owner is entitled to some return on investment if not, well then you're an uneducatable semi literate child and should hold your tongue while the adults speak.

That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.

Think of all the new people with higher wages who can suddenly afford your product/ service.


That would only make a difference if we were a demand-economy.

/trickles
 
2013-11-28 03:36:48 PM
Mr. Eugenides:
That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.

Good thing that isn't anything close to what is happening then.
 
2013-11-28 03:45:17 PM

jst3p: Mr. Eugenides:
That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.

Good thing that isn't anything close to what is happening then.


Yes, but if they were, it would be bad.

So this is bad, too.

Don't you see?
 
2013-11-28 03:48:20 PM
Nothing wrong with a recount when it is that close, subby.  If anything it should be mandatory at that point.
 
2013-11-28 03:49:59 PM

Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*

If there is no profit, why am I investing all my money and 80 hours of my time per week?

So I'm assuming you feel that a business owner is entitled to some return on investment if not, well then you're an uneducatable semi literate child and should hold your tongue while the adults speak.

That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.


1. We are talking about minimum wage, so its service jobs.

2. You can raise prices. Your competition is in the same boat and under the same pressures as you.

If your business acumen is so weak you can't pay a living wage and stay in business then maybe you should do something else and leave running a successful business to 'the adults'.
 
2013-11-28 03:59:15 PM

Prophet of Loss: Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*

If there is no profit, why am I investing all my money and 80 hours of my time per week?

So I'm assuming you feel that a business owner is entitled to some return on investment if not, well then you're an uneducatable semi literate child and should hold your tongue while the adults speak.

That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.

1. We are talking about minimum wage, so its service jobs.

2. You can raise prices. Your competition is in the same boat and under the same pressures as you.

If your business acumen is so weak you can't pay a living wage and stay in business then maybe you should do something else and leave running a successful business to 'the adults'.


No one has mentioned price or income elasticity of demand yet, so I'll just assume this will be another Ferengi vs. Commie argument.

*whistles*
*twiddles thumbs*
*feels superior*
 
2013-11-28 04:04:11 PM
I hope this doesn't cause shops and restaurants in airports to charge a lot more than those elsewhere.
 
2013-11-28 04:06:51 PM

Prophet of Loss: Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*

If there is no profit, why am I investing all my money and 80 hours of my time per week?

So I'm assuming you feel that a business owner is entitled to some return on investment if not, well then you're an uneducatable semi literate child and should hold your tongue while the adults speak.

That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.

1. We are talking about minimum wage, so its service jobs.

2. You can raise prices. Your competition is in the same boat and under the same pressures as you.

If your business acumen is so weak you can't pay a living wage and stay in business then maybe you should do something else and leave running a successful business to 'the adults'.


Yep.

If a business can't cover its cost, the model isn't viable.
 
2013-11-28 04:10:51 PM
For the shortsighted:  This will hurt minorities.   That is why it exists.  Keep supporting racist policies democrat party.  You fools.
 
2013-11-28 04:15:53 PM

Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*

If there is no profit, why am I investing all my money and 80 hours of my time per week?

So I'm assuming you feel that a business owner is entitled to some return on investment if not, well then you're an uneducatable semi literate child and should hold your tongue while the adults speak.

That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.


You're welcome to show evidence how raising the wage to $15 is going to hurt ANY of the huge corps that operate out of Sea-Tac. I'll wait.

So I'm assuming

Yes you are. You are assuming that huge corporations that hire people for shiat wages aren't doing well, and couldn't absorb a real cost of living adjustment.
 
2013-11-28 04:16:00 PM

bigsteve3OOO: That is why it exists.


The Employment Policies Institute (EPI) is one of several front groups created by Berman & Co., a Washington, DC public affairs firm owned by Rick Berman, who lobbies for the restaurant, hotel, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries.

What a surprise EPI is against raising the minimum wage!
 
2013-11-28 04:17:25 PM

Prophet of Loss: Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: OK I predict this thread is going to be about "oh the poor poor employers who have to cough up extra $$$ that takes away from their PROFITS."

*read in a Ferengi voice*

If there is no profit, why am I investing all my money and 80 hours of my time per week?

So I'm assuming you feel that a business owner is entitled to some return on investment if not, well then you're an uneducatable semi literate child and should hold your tongue while the adults speak.

That said, if labor costs are 40% of expenses and they double then there simply won't be any profits.

1. We are talking about minimum wage, so its service jobs.


So it's service jobs, so what?  In most service professions the largest cost component is labor.

2. You can raise prices. Your competition is in the same boat and under the same pressures as you.

If your business acumen is so weak you can't pay a living wage and stay in business then maybe you should do something else and leave running a successful business to 'the adults'.



But you cannot raise prices since this new wage is Sea-Tac only.  For any service or retail industry people can drive a couple of minutes and get the same product for less.

The market is what the market is.  You cannot legislate the market to behave the way you want any more than you can legislate the tide to come in at a different time.  It's childish magical thinking to believe otherwise.
 
2013-11-28 04:17:55 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: bigsteve3OOO: That is why it exists.

The Employment Policies Institute (EPI) is one of several front groups created by Berman & Co., a Washington, DC public affairs firm owned by Rick Berman, who lobbies for the restaurant, hotel, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries.

What a surprise EPI is against raising the minimum wage!


I'm shocked. Shocked that some obvious troll posted obvious shiat.
 
2013-11-28 04:20:30 PM

Mr. Eugenides: The market is what the market is.  You cannot legislate the market to behave the way you want any more than you can legislate the tide to come in at a different time.  It's childish magical thinking to believe otherwise.


So let's never try to improve labor conditions, it's "childish magical thinking."

Uh-huh.
 
2013-11-28 04:23:19 PM

Testiclaw: neilbradley: I remember being paid $3.25/hr for my first job in 1985. That rate today is around $7.80/hr. So they're getting more than double the rate of inflation.

Oooooooh, this one is good.


I was about to respond with "where did you live?" but I think yours was the proper response.
 
2013-11-28 04:26:04 PM

whidbey: Mr. Eugenides: The market is what the market is.  You cannot legislate the market to behave the way you want any more than you can legislate the tide to come in at a different time.  It's childish magical thinking to believe otherwise.

So let's never try to improve labor conditions, it's "childish magical thinking."

Uh-huh.


Know which logical fallacy you just engaged in?
 
2013-11-28 04:34:54 PM

Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: Mr. Eugenides: The market is what the market is.  You cannot legislate the market to behave the way you want any more than you can legislate the tide to come in at a different time.  It's childish magical thinking to believe otherwise.

So let's never try to improve labor conditions, it's "childish magical thinking."

Uh-huh.

Know which logical fallacy you just engaged in?


Do tell.

Labor conditions are certainly affected by market forces.

I know you surely meant to say something much more limited than you actually did, but that isn't whidbey's job to sort out.
 
2013-11-28 04:36:31 PM

Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: Mr. Eugenides: The market is what the market is.  You cannot legislate the market to behave the way you want any more than you can legislate the tide to come in at a different time.  It's childish magical thinking to believe otherwise.

So let's never try to improve labor conditions, it's "childish magical thinking."

Uh-huh.

Know which logical fallacy you just engaged in?


Reductio ad Absurdum? That's whidbey alright.
 
2013-11-28 04:45:55 PM

Mr. Eugenides: whidbey: Mr. Eugenides: The market is what the market is.  You cannot legislate the market to behave the way you want any more than you can legislate the tide to come in at a different time.  It's childish magical thinking to believe otherwise.

So let's never try to improve labor conditions, it's "childish magical thinking."

Uh-huh.

Know which logical fallacy you just engaged in?


Because appealing to some vague authority like Your Law of Economics isn't a fallacious argument.
 
2013-11-28 04:56:06 PM

neilbradley: I remember being paid $3.25/hr for my first job in 1985. That rate today is around $7.80/hr. So they're getting more than double the rate of inflation.


But gold in 1985 was less than $327/oz

Today it's $1240/oz.  Therefore your $3.25 1985 in gold should  $12.95 now,  so $15 is just 25% more than inflation
 
2013-11-28 04:57:55 PM

shower_in_my_socks: A low minimum wage is just another example of corporate welfare. Companies benefit from not having to pay workers a livable wage, knowing that the government will pick up the difference via social programs. Being against socialism, but also against raising the minimum wage, is like being against abortion, but not wanting people to use birth control either.


You type that like you don't think there are people with EXACTLY those to stances on the issue.  Have you been asleep for 20 years?
 
2013-11-28 04:59:04 PM
Maybe it's because I'm thinking of my first real job at minimum wage, which was at a Dairy Queen, but how the hell can a business like that support $15 an hour? You've got three kids working (all of which are most likely eating into your whipped cream profits via whippits) selling cheap crap, plus the rest of your overhead. I just don't get it
 
2013-11-28 05:00:14 PM

Teresaol31: shower_in_my_socks: A low minimum wage is just another example of corporate welfare. Companies benefit from not having to pay workers a livable wage, knowing that the government will pick up the difference via social programs. Being against socialism, but also against raising the minimum wage, is like being against abortion, but not wanting people to use birth control either.

You type that like you don't think there are people with EXACTLY those to TWO stances on the issue.  Have you been asleep for 20 years?


FTFM

gotta lay off the Turkey Day cheer a bit
 
2013-11-28 05:02:26 PM

dinch: , but how the hell can a business like that support $15 an hour


Dairy Queen is a good example of a business where the cost of their product is well under a dollar per burger, and probably less for cases of fries, ice cream and other stuff.

They can afford a wage increase. They don't want to because they make more money without having to.
 
2013-11-28 05:07:45 PM

whidbey: dinch: , but how the hell can a business like that support $15 an hour

Dairy Queen is a good example of a business where the cost of their product is well under a dollar per burger, and probably less for cases of fries, ice cream and other stuff.

They can afford a wage increase. They don't want to because they make more money without having to.


I get that, I really do. Thing is, $45 an hour plus insurance (not health, just the basic' if anybody accidentally mixes bleach and chlorine'), product, equipment, rent and then what you're losing to the kids that are being kids... I just don't see how that could be viable.
 
2013-11-28 05:09:52 PM
Keep in mind, I haven't even been to a Dairy Queen in maybe 20 years, so I am a bit ignorant on what they charge these days
 
2013-11-28 05:10:47 PM
$15 minimum wage? Good luck with that. $10 is okay, but I can see businesses moving out of the suburb at $15.

Guess we have to wait and see on this one.
 
2013-11-28 05:12:33 PM

dinch: whidbey: dinch: , but how the hell can a business like that support $15 an hour

Dairy Queen is a good example of a business where the cost of their product is well under a dollar per burger, and probably less for cases of fries, ice cream and other stuff.

They can afford a wage increase. They don't want to because they make more money without having to.

I get that, I really do. Thing is, $45 an hour plus insurance (not health, just the basic' if anybody accidentally mixes bleach and chlorine'), product, equipment, rent and then what you're losing to the kids that are being kids... I just don't see how that could be viable.


Well, you're welcome to break it down for me. And I seriously doubt that kids sneaking a burger or an ice cream cone is a major factor in business costs.

If Dairy Queen is making enough profit to stay well afloat, then they can afford a wage increase.

And it's been pointed out here, if you can't put that cost into your business plan, it's stupid to blame a wage increase on your inability to succeed in the market. And I know that's going to piss some armchair economists here off. Good.
 
2013-11-28 05:19:04 PM

super_grass: $15 minimum wage? Good luck with that. $10 is okay, but I can see businesses moving out of the suburb at $15.

Guess we have to wait and see on this one.


Those airports relocate in a heartbeat
 
2013-11-28 05:19:51 PM

dinch: Maybe it's because I'm thinking of my first real job at minimum wage, which was at a Dairy Queen, but how the hell can a business like that support $15 an hour? You've got three kids working (all of which are most likely eating into your whipped cream profits via whippits) selling cheap crap, plus the rest of your overhead. I just don't get it


Seatac is a small suburb with a major airport. I'm guessing that the stores in the airport will just raise their prices and the ones outside will move a mile or two away from it.

What I don't get is that it's a damn suburb. The cost of living there can't be that high compared to downtown Seattle.
 
2013-11-28 05:21:25 PM
There's a chain of burger joints here in Seattle which starts their employees at $10.25/hour, which is substantially less than $15 of course (although well above the minimum wage), but they also provide 100% employer paid health insurance, child care assistance of up to $8,000/year, and college tuition assistance of up to $5,500/year. They've been in business for over 50 years, and the family that owns the company lives quite well. It is possible to treat employees like human beings and still make a reasonable profit.
 
2013-11-28 05:26:44 PM

vicioushobbit: shower_in_my_socks: A low minimum wage is just another example of corporate welfare. Companies benefit from not having to pay workers a livable wage, knowing that the government will pick up the difference via social programs. Being against socialism, but also against raising the minimum wage, is like being against abortion, but not wanting people to use birth control either.

They are against that , too.


I was going to mention that is pretty much the Republican platform.
 
2013-11-28 05:33:04 PM

gwowen: I hope this doesn't cause shops and restaurants in airports to charge a lot more than those elsewhere.


That would be terrible! Why, if wages go up, a bottle of water might cost $4! And they might charge $25 just to throw a bag on the plane. That would be insane.
 
Juc
2013-11-28 05:33:29 PM

bigsteve3OOO: For the shortsighted:  This will hurt minorities.   That is why it exists.  Keep supporting racist policies democrat party.  You fools.


that's the stupidest article I've read all day.
 
2013-11-28 05:35:56 PM

bigsteve3OOO: For the shortsighted:  This will hurt minorities.   That is why it exists.  Keep supporting racist policies democrat party.  You fools.


Minorities did great when the GOP utopia of no minimum wage was the standard in the US... I mean, they did so well on those plantations that they never owed anything for rent, food, or whatever, and they were always on time with their bills.
 
2013-11-28 05:37:16 PM

Mr. Eugenides: The market is what the market is.  You cannot legislate the market to behave the way you want any more than you can legislate the tide to come in at a different time.  It's childish magical thinking to believe otherwise.


This reminds me of a quote!

"While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially, so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few. This imbalance is the result of ideologies which defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation. Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control. A new tyranny is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules. ... In this system, which tends to devour everything which stands in the way of increased profits, whatever is fragile, like the environment, is defenseless before the interests of a deified market, which become the only rule."

 - Pope "Goddamn" Francis
 
2013-11-28 05:38:52 PM

shamanwest: vicioushobbit: shower_in_my_socks: A low minimum wage is just another example of corporate welfare. Companies benefit from not having to pay workers a livable wage, knowing that the government will pick up the difference via social programs. Being against socialism, but also against raising the minimum wage, is like being against abortion, but not wanting people to use birth control either.

They are against that , too.

I was going to mention that is pretty much the Republican platform.


[thatsthejoke.jpg]
 
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