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(Guardian)   "Notably, the Hobby Lobby used to have an employee insurance plan that covered the very same birth control methods it now claims violate its religious freedom" Popcorn, anyone?   ( theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, birth control methods, religious freedom, idea, Christian Scientists, religious values, amicus brief, contraceptives, health insurance  
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3632 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Nov 2013 at 8:18 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-11-28 01:25:01 AM  
16 votes:
what pisses me off about this case is that it should be a 9-0 decision, but everyone knows it's going to be either 4-5 or 5-4. again.
2013-11-28 03:11:37 AM  
10 votes:
If corporations are people, wouldn't owning a corporation be slavery?
2013-11-28 09:39:57 AM  
6 votes:
Persecution envy.

Christian evangelicals legitimately make life harder for the people they don't like. They don't like being confronted with this fact because it makes them look bad, so they have to constantly find ways to portray themselves as victims of the kind of persecution they engage in every day.
2013-11-28 09:16:17 AM  
5 votes:
A company owned entirely by Christians has religious beliefs the same way a company owned entirely by African Americans is somehow black. That is to say, not at all.
2013-11-28 09:12:11 AM  
5 votes:
Its all a matter of time until a business owner who is a Christian Scientist refuses to provide insurance that covers medicine.
2013-11-28 08:57:27 AM  
5 votes:
Notably, the Hobby Lobby used to have an employee insurance plan that covered the very same birth control methods it now claims violate its religious freedom. It wasn't until the GOP raised a stink about the contraception rules in Obama's healthcare legislation that the Hobby Lobby "re-examined" its insurance policies.

Making sure insurance policies actually cover real things real people need and want should not be controversial in 2013.

The cases the supreme court will hear were brought under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), which bars the government from "substantially burden[ing] a person's exercise of religion" unless that burden is justified by a "compelling reason".

Not dying from preventable ovarian cancers cos your insurance plan sucks because some Jesus freaks decided that denying you medicine is the moral thing to do seems pretty compelling to me.
2013-11-28 08:56:15 AM  
5 votes:

Alphax: Yakk: Notably, the Hobby Lobby used to have an employee insurance plan that covered the very same birth control methods it now claims violate its religious freedom. It wasn't until the GOP raised a stink about the contraception rules in Obama's healthcare legislation that the Hobby Lobby "re-examined" its insurance policies.

Are you farking kidding me? And this got to the Supreme Court?

So, same with all the religious colleges that started to complain about their own insurance about 2 years ago.


It's almost as if they don't actually care about that particular rule, and are just using it to attack a President they dislike.
2013-11-28 08:25:05 AM  
4 votes:
Michaels has basically he same stuff, fewer crosses and fewer self-righteous hypocrites.
2013-11-28 01:34:50 AM  
4 votes:

log_jammin: what pisses me off about this case is that it should be a 9-0 decision, but everyone knows it's going to be either 4-5 or 5-4. again.


A whole lotta THIS.
2013-11-28 05:02:13 PM  
3 votes:
nucrash:

maxheck: Aquapope:

A little disingenuous? Maybe a calculated bit of theater at the expense of Hobby Lobby's employees?

That doesn't even slow them down... The one that amazed me was the owner of Papa John's Pizza biatching about how providing healthcare for their workers might cost an extra two cents a pie while running an ad where he was giving away a million dollars worth of pizza in a Superbowl promotion.

That particular situation was taken way out of context. He was giving a lecture about business and some reporter baited him with that question to get the answer that they wanted and everyone ran with it and made him look like a jackball. He's actually a pretty good guy and provides healthcare for his employees.


It was not a one time "gotcha question." He repeated himself over and over until he figured out it would be bad for business and suddenly had an epiphany.
2013-11-28 10:54:59 AM  
3 votes:
I'd be curious to know if Hobby Lobby provides paid maternity benefits, seeing as how they disapprove of contraception & all.
2013-11-28 10:04:13 AM  
3 votes:
By refusing to cover contraception, the Hobby Lobby owners are in fact using their own religious beliefs to deny benefits to their employees who may not share those beliefs at all. That's not religious freedom; it's religious tyranny.

Bears repeating dot jpeg.
2013-11-28 09:30:50 AM  
3 votes:
Only through bankruptcy can a corporation be saved and be born again.
2013-11-28 09:21:53 AM  
3 votes:
"In another case a religiously-affiliated school gave male employees a "head of household" supplement not offered to female employees because, according to their sincerely-held religious views, men should be the family's breadwinner."

My mother was once denied a raise because another male colleague had "just had a baby and he needs the extra income now." "She pointed out that she was raising two kids and that gender might not be a completely legal reason to make decisions regarding compensation. She got the raise. This happened in the farking late 70s for fark's sake.

Wake me up when we're done treating women like brood mares, mkay?
2013-11-28 09:02:44 AM  
3 votes:
Great opportunity to finally divorce health insurance from employment.

Also, paying for the Hallmark channel as part of my cable subscription is a violation of my freedom of religion. Unbundle already!
2013-11-28 08:22:15 AM  
3 votes:

Relatively Obscure: If a corporation can have a religion, can a corporation start a religion (besides Apple)?  Or could I get married by Comcast and absolved of my transgressions by, I dunno, Church & Dwight (the cleaning products folks) or whatever? Kaboom!  And the sin is gone!


I'll jump aboard the corporate personhood bandwagon just as soon as Texas executes one of them.
2013-11-28 01:58:50 AM  
3 votes:

Relatively Obscure: If a corporation can have a religion, can a corporation start a religion (besides Apple)?  Or could I get married by Comcast and absolved of my transgressions by, I dunno, Church & Dwight (the cleaning products folks) or whatever? Kaboom!  And the sin is gone!


better yet, can a corporation go to jail?
2013-11-28 12:23:04 AM  
3 votes:
... I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning.
2013-11-28 12:02:09 PM  
2 votes:

Warlordtrooper: pueblonative: Warlordtrooper: Doctor Funkenstein: MFK: Warlordtrooper: Could this be pointed out in court as a counter to their arguments or not?

it farking should be!

I know it probably doesn't work this way, but I think they should have to first prove in court that they actually are Christian and abide by the actual tenets of the religion.  Want to whine that your religious rights are being infringed?  OK, first prove to us that you walk the walk.  I'm guessing not a lot of these perpetually offended jackasses would qualify.

The only problem with that is that the government would be deciding which sets of beliefs count as a religion and which do not. A violation of the first amendment

If the snowflakes are asking for a special exemption from the law that the rest of the nation has to follow:

[lh3.ggpht.com image 379x214]

Thing is you sort of don't want the government to be able to define what is or isn't a religion.  First of all is because religion is just a made up set of beliefs and second of all the next logical step is for a fundamentalist in the government to declare all religions besides their own brand of Christianity as not real religions.


All right we'll go to Plan B (actually my Plan A): no religious exemption from the law. If you can exempt one person from the law because of a belief it shouldn't be a law. If you believe something should be a law it should be the law for everybody.
2013-11-28 11:35:51 AM  
2 votes:
I have NO faith that our Supreme Court will reach the right decision on this, especially given the current make-up of it.  I'm expecting to see my right to have medically prescribed birth control taken from me, all because of religion.   This is NOT the country my granddad went to war for.
2013-11-28 11:16:11 AM  
2 votes:

Yakk: Notably, the Hobby Lobby used to have an employee insurance plan that covered the very same birth control methods it now claims violate its religious freedom. It wasn't until the GOP raised a stink about the contraception rules in Obama's healthcare legislation that the Hobby Lobby "re-examined" its insurance policies.

Are you farking kidding me? And this got to the Supreme Court?


I hope some Justice (Ginsburg??) slaps them down for this cynical opportunistic obvious bullshiat case.  The GOP was shopping around for anything to challenge ACA in the courts and Hobby Lobby volunteered.  "You had no problem with contraception for how many years until the ACA said you had to provide it... then you have moral problems?  Does that sound a little political to you?  A little disingenuous?  Maybe a calculated bit of theater at the expense of Hobby Lobby's employees?"
2013-11-28 10:49:29 AM  
2 votes:
 Also it's more than a little bit telling that they throw a fit about the government "getting between them and their doctor" yet they have no issue with corporations actually doing just that.
2013-11-28 10:38:14 AM  
2 votes:

Karac: starsrift: "The company heads bringing these claims want to have it both ways. By incorporating, owners and shareholders create separate entities and are not personally liable for their employees' salaries or health insurance costs - the entire point of incorporating is to create a legal entity separate from the individuals who created it. Yet these owners and shareholders want the court to consider their personal religious beliefs indistinguishable from those of the corporation, and allow those beliefs to dictate the kind of healthcare coverage their employees receive."

This is probably the most coherent argument. But if they went on it, they'd have to make a separate case for non-incorporated businesses...

How many businesses with 50 or more employees, and therefore obligated under Obamacare to provide any insurance, whether it covers birth control or not, are unincorporated?


A business of that size is going to need relationships with other parties: suppliers, banks, accountants, etc, none of whom will sign a contract for services unless the business is incorporated.
2013-11-28 10:25:19 AM  
2 votes:

Antifun: Relatively Obscure: Can I marry Walmart, divorce Walmart, and make Walmart pay me alimony?


maybe, but you'll have to consummate the marriage before teh divorce


I'd say just signing the marriage license would suffice, everyone gets farked by WalMart.
2013-11-28 10:12:25 AM  
2 votes:
So they are just like the Georgetown law school that help start much of this.  Georgetown felt it so wrong to allow contraception, that they had to have a plan to deny it from the students that were forced to purchase health insurance if they attended school there.... BUT, the employee/staff plans... well those allowed for contraception coverage.  So the administrator reviewing a students 'legitimate need' for contraception were themselves free to get it covered with no input from the employer.  I guess their morals did have limits, and as usually when it come it to such people, its when its applied to them personally.
2013-11-28 10:06:45 AM  
2 votes:
Whoever came up with the idea of letting employers control healthcare should be taken out back and shot in the back of the head... and left there for the coyotes.
2013-11-28 10:05:19 AM  
2 votes:

Doctor Funkenstein: MFK: Warlordtrooper: Could this be pointed out in court as a counter to their arguments or not?

it farking should be!

I know it probably doesn't work this way, but I think they should have to first prove in court that they actually are Christian and abide by the actual tenets of the religion.  Want to whine that your religious rights are being infringed?  OK, first prove to us that you walk the walk.  I'm guessing not a lot of these perpetually offended jackasses would qualify.


If you had to actually prove you were Christian(ie, follow the teachings of Jesus), most Christians would not be capable of doing so.

/paulists
2013-11-28 09:58:38 AM  
2 votes:

MFK: Warlordtrooper: Could this be pointed out in court as a counter to their arguments or not?

it farking should be!


I know it probably doesn't work this way, but I think they should have to first prove in court that they actually are Christian and abide by the actual tenets of the religion.  Want to whine that your religious rights are being infringed?  OK, first prove to us that you walk the walk.  I'm guessing not a lot of these perpetually offended jackasses would qualify.
2013-11-28 09:47:16 AM  
2 votes:

PanicMan: Also, if you're going to claim this violates your religion, show the the passage in the bible that states: "thou shalt not give money to a third party, to be put in a fund, that may or may not be used to provide for the cost of hormone control, that has the side effect of preventing pregnancy, as a form of deferred payment to your employees."


I wonder if the court could hand down a ruling along the lines of:
"As the corporation, nor its stakeholders, are required by the law to take contraceptives themselves, then law has not violated the freedom of religion of the corporation or stakeholders. Therefore, being required to provide coverage for contraceptives, and not the contraceptives themselves, to an employee of said corporation, the religious rights of the corporation have not been found to be violated."

Or, are hiring candidates considered corporate fetuses? Are they born if they are hired? If they aren't hired, were those candidates aborted? If the corporation isn't actively hiring anyone once a month, are they considered to be on birth control?
2013-11-28 09:39:35 AM  
2 votes:
From a purely contraceptive point of view I'm beginning to wonder if any decision here will matter. All insurance companies more have to provide maternity coverage. They also know that the pill is about a thousand times cheaper than paying for a pregnancy and any subsequent complications and healthcare for the child. Its in the insurance companies best interest to provide coverage. Won't it be next to impossible for hobby lobby to even find insurance that does not cover contraception?

Though, like citizens united, the decision here could have far reaching consequences as corporations adopt religion (or make them up while cloth) and claim many other things that corporations hate are against their religion.
2013-11-28 09:37:48 AM  
2 votes:
Also, if you're going to claim this violates your religion, show the the passage in the bible that states: "thou shalt not give money to a third party, to be put in a fund, that may or may not be used to provide for the cost of hormone control, that has the side effect of preventing pregnancy, as a form of deferred payment to your employees."
2013-11-28 09:29:35 AM  
2 votes:
"The company heads bringing these claims want to have it both ways. By incorporating, owners and shareholders create separate entities and are not personally liable for their employees' salaries or health insurance costs - the entire point of incorporating is to create a legal entity separate from the individuals who created it. Yet these owners and shareholders want the court to consider their personal religious beliefs indistinguishable from those of the corporation, and allow those beliefs to dictate the kind of healthcare coverage their employees receive."

This is probably the most coherent argument. But if they went on it, they'd have to make a separate case for non-incorporated businesses...
2013-11-28 09:17:12 AM  
2 votes:
This brings up an important point: What if Hobby Lobby has another epiphany? Will their employees be required to adhere to the new religious edicts? And what if Hobby Lobby's new religion demands specific behavior? Can Hobby Lobby force its employees to engage in the new behavior (i.e. praying 5 times per day)?
2013-11-28 09:07:07 AM  
2 votes:

hinten: Great opportunity to finally divorce health insurance from employment.

Also, paying for the Hallmark channel as part of my cable subscription is a violation of my freedom of religion. Unbundle already!


That's a good point.  Why is my money going to EWTN?
2013-11-28 08:53:26 AM  
2 votes:

Yakk: Notably, the Hobby Lobby used to have an employee insurance plan that covered the very same birth control methods it now claims violate its religious freedom. It wasn't until the GOP raised a stink about the contraception rules in Obama's healthcare legislation that the Hobby Lobby "re-examined" its insurance policies.

Are you farking kidding me? And this got to the Supreme Court?


So, same with all the religious colleges that started to complain about their own insurance about 2 years ago.
2013-11-28 08:44:21 AM  
2 votes:
Notably, the Hobby Lobby used to have an employee insurance plan that covered the very same birth control methods it now claims violate its religious freedom. It wasn't until the GOP raised a stink about the contraception rules in Obama's healthcare legislation that the Hobby Lobby "re-examined" its insurance policies.

Are you farking kidding me? And this got to the Supreme Court?
2013-11-28 08:43:25 AM  
2 votes:

Antifun: Relatively Obscure: Can I marry Walmart, divorce Walmart, and make Walmart pay me alimony?


maybe, but you'll have to consummate the marriage before teh divorce


Plenty of folks are f*cked by Walmart.
2013-11-28 12:41:55 AM  
2 votes:
How dare you question their righteous indignation at being forced to do something by that... person
2013-11-28 11:15:55 PM  
1 vote:

Stile4aly: threedingers: capn' fun: Genuine question, no snark: what is the religious basis for a prohibition against birth control?  I've read the Bible cover to cover, twice, and don't recall any mention of birth control.

For Catholics, it's not based on a biblical prohibition but rather on Papal Encyclicals, notably the Humanae Vitae encyclical by Paul VI.

So, what's the excuse for Hobby Lobby? They're not Catholic, they're Evangelical Protestants.


The argument that usually gets thrown around is that birth control pills function as an abortifacient; that is, they can cause an already fertilized egg to fail to implant in the uterine wall. If you believe that "life begins at conception" and therefore a zygote is morally a full human being, then making it fail to implant is killing it.

The main problem with this argument is that it is completely false, since hormonal birth control works by preventing ovulation. However, whenever someone tries to correct this lie, they get labeled as being part of the "abortion industry" so much like climate change and evolution, the way birth control actually works is one of those bit of reality you must deny to be a "True Christian."

(Other problems with this argument involve the fact that, even assuming that birth control does prevent implantation, an undifferentialed ball of cells the size of the head if a pin is only a "person" of you declare it by religious fiat, and the fact that if you take normal spontaneous abortion into account, a woman on birth control will wind up killing fewer embryos than if she's having unprotected sex. And that's not even getting into the fact that some evangelicals feel morally culpable if they assist unmarried people in having sex safely.)
2013-11-28 01:48:02 PM  
1 vote:

Moriel: I look forward to the day when a Jehovah's Witness owned company says that their health insurance will no longer cover blood transfusions. There would not be enough popcorn in the world to keep us covered while watching that play out.


That would never happen because a) men get blood transfusions and b) this is all about conservatives' discomfort with sex, women and women having sex.
2013-11-28 12:59:34 PM  
1 vote:
Okay, I'm wondering this....

I'm a reform Jew, so that doesn't give me much opportunity to limit what employees do---we're pretty much okay with you getting an abortion on the way to gay wedding where bacon cheeseburgers will be served.

But if I have a company, does the company have to be Jewish? Why can't my company be Catholic? Then I don't have to provide insurance that includes birth control and abortion services that my faith would have no objection to providing employees, but that offends the hell out of my good Catholic company. Why can't my company be a Scientologist?
2013-11-28 12:52:09 PM  
1 vote:

Moriel: I look forward to the day when a Jehovah's Witness owned company says that their health insurance will no longer cover blood transfusions. There would not be enough popcorn in the world to keep us covered while watching that play out.


Even better will be when a Muslim-owned company denies coverage for insulin because it comes from pigs.  The outrage of "ragheads gettin' in the way of mah diabeetus!" would be epic.
2013-11-28 12:20:18 PM  
1 vote:

capn' fun: The closest thing I've gotten to a cogent answer from my right-wing, religious friends is that birth control was a key part of the cultural shift in the 1960's that "destroyed" America (as they choose to remember it), and that it enables or contributes to most of the behaviors they attribute to the secular "war" on their faith (i.e., anything fun).


So their misogynists and you should call then out on it. What they hate is that women began to be liberated, stopped "needing a man to take care of them", and that is what caused the destruction of society.... In their eyes.That's the "cultural shift" that happened in the sixties. Oh and civil rights too. So they're racists and misogynists.
2013-11-28 11:58:26 AM  
1 vote:

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: kidgenius: Karac: starsrift: "The company heads bringing these claims want to have it both ways. By incorporating, owners and shareholders create separate entities and are not personally liable for their employees' salaries or health insurance costs - the entire point of incorporating is to create a legal entity separate from the individuals who created it. Yet these owners and shareholders want the court to consider their personal religious beliefs indistinguishable from those of the corporation, and allow those beliefs to dictate the kind of healthcare coverage their employees receive."

This is probably the most coherent argument. But if they went on it, they'd have to make a separate case for non-incorporated businesses...

How many businesses with 50 or more employees, and therefore obligated under Obamacare to provide any insurance, whether it covers birth control or not, are unincorporated?

If someone is smart enough to get a business to be successful and grow to have +50 employees, I would have a hard time imagining that they aren't incorporated. I would put the number maybe at like 5 in the entire country.


The Koch's are too smart to not be incorporated. Incorporation is forming a corporation. Its an entity by which you separate the liabilities of the company from your own. Private/public corporations are both still incorporated.
2013-11-28 11:51:29 AM  
1 vote:

sdd2000: grumpfuff: capn' fun: Genuine question, no snark: what is the religious basis for a prohibition against birth control?  I've read the Bible cover to cover, twice, and don't recall any mention of birth control.

There isn't one.

Christian zealots are passionate defenders of what they imagine the Bible to be.

And they ignore all of the references in the bible that allow for slavery.


See, that's where you're wrong. The references allowing for slavery are in the Old Testament, which doesn't count anymore.*


*except when they want it to
2013-11-28 11:49:41 AM  
1 vote:

grumpfuff: capn' fun: Genuine question, no snark: what is the religious basis for a prohibition against birth control?  I've read the Bible cover to cover, twice, and don't recall any mention of birth control.

There isn't one.

Christian zealots are passionate defenders of what they imagine the Bible to be.


And they ignore all of the references in the bible that allow for slavery.
2013-11-28 11:47:45 AM  
1 vote:

capn' fun: Genuine question, no snark: what is the religious basis for a prohibition against birth control?  I've read the Bible cover to cover, twice, and don't recall any mention of birth control.


There isn't one.

Christian zealots are passionate defenders of what they imagine the Bible to be.
2013-11-28 11:46:41 AM  
1 vote:

capn' fun: Genuine question, no snark: what is the religious basis for a prohibition against birth control?  I've read the Bible cover to cover, twice, and don't recall any mention of birth control.


You'll have an even harder time finding the religious basis for a prohibition against providing health insurance plans that merely cover birth control.
2013-11-28 11:45:09 AM  
1 vote:
Genuine question, no snark: what is the religious basis for a prohibition against birth control?  I've read the Bible cover to cover, twice, and don't recall any mention of birth control.
2013-11-28 10:51:39 AM  
1 vote:

GWSuperfan: If corporations are people, wouldn't owning a corporation be slavery?


In fairness many slaves were treated better then companies taken over by Bain Capital.
2013-11-28 10:43:32 AM  
1 vote:
 This is not a fight that the right really wants to have. It cost far more to have a baby than it does to not have a baby. I promise you that if they win this one you will see more companies covering contraception, abortion, and the like while doing away with coverage for having a baby that will eat up additional cost via insurance.
2013-11-28 10:30:29 AM  
1 vote:

Karac: starsrift: "The company heads bringing these claims want to have it both ways. By incorporating, owners and shareholders create separate entities and are not personally liable for their employees' salaries or health insurance costs - the entire point of incorporating is to create a legal entity separate from the individuals who created it. Yet these owners and shareholders want the court to consider their personal religious beliefs indistinguishable from those of the corporation, and allow those beliefs to dictate the kind of healthcare coverage their employees receive."

This is probably the most coherent argument. But if they went on it, they'd have to make a separate case for non-incorporated businesses...

How many businesses with 50 or more employees, and therefore obligated under Obamacare to provide any insurance, whether it covers birth control or not, are unincorporated?


If someone is smart enough to get a business to be successful and grow to have +50 employees, I would have a hard time imagining that they aren't incorporated. I would put the number maybe at like 5 in the entire country.
2013-11-28 10:19:47 AM  
1 vote:

starsrift: "The company heads bringing these claims want to have it both ways. By incorporating, owners and shareholders create separate entities and are not personally liable for their employees' salaries or health insurance costs - the entire point of incorporating is to create a legal entity separate from the individuals who created it. Yet these owners and shareholders want the court to consider their personal religious beliefs indistinguishable from those of the corporation, and allow those beliefs to dictate the kind of healthcare coverage their employees receive."

This is probably the most coherent argument. But if they went on it, they'd have to make a separate case for non-incorporated businesses...


How many businesses with 50 or more employees, and therefore obligated under Obamacare to provide any insurance, whether it covers birth control or not, are unincorporated?
2013-11-28 10:17:31 AM  
1 vote:

markfara: rev. dave: Michaels has basically he same stuff, fewer crosses and fewer self-righteous hypocrites.

What is it about born-agains and scrapbooking?


As desperate and burning desire to relive a 1950's that never actually was.
2013-11-28 10:15:31 AM  
1 vote:
As if we didn't already have enough proof that Obama lied when he said "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan."
2013-11-28 10:14:07 AM  
1 vote:

Notabunny: This brings up an important point: What if Hobby Lobby has another epiphany? Will their employees be required to adhere to the new religious edicts? And what if Hobby Lobby's new religion demands specific behavior? Can Hobby Lobby force its employees to engage in the new behavior (i.e. praying 5 times per day)?


What  if they (the corporation) decides that the new beliefs also include Droit du seigneur for the CEO.
 Or that mandatory Peyote worship is now the norm?
2013-11-28 10:08:41 AM  
1 vote:
I'd vote for a politician that stood up and said, "You know what?  Corporations and businesses really aren't all that special."
2013-11-28 09:57:29 AM  
1 vote:
Is Hobby Lobby ok with biblical rape in their aisles?
2013-11-28 09:52:02 AM  
1 vote:
Furthermore....

Is the government forcing its will on Hobby Lobby legitimate corporate rape? Actual corporate rape? Doesn't Hobby Lobby have a way of shutting that down?
2013-11-28 09:40:15 AM  
1 vote:

RubberBandMan: Only through bankruptcy can a corporation be saved and be born again.


Socialize the sin, and privatize the redemption?
2013-11-28 09:35:55 AM  
1 vote:

RubberBandMan: Only through bankruptcy can a corporation be saved and be born again.


I LOLed!!!!
2013-11-28 09:05:48 AM  
1 vote:
If the SCOTUS rules in favor of Hobby Lobby the shiat will hit the fan, but the glimmer of hope will be if enough people realize the idiocy of having our health insurance coupled with our employment. Single payer anyone?
2013-11-28 09:01:22 AM  
1 vote:
This is a cynical power grab disguised as a religious freedom case.  If I were a Christian I would be upset.
MFK
2013-11-28 08:58:22 AM  
1 vote:

Warlordtrooper: Could this be pointed out in court as a counter to their arguments or not?


it farking should be!
2013-11-28 08:26:45 AM  
1 vote:

rev. dave: Michaels has basically he same stuff, fewer crosses and fewer self-righteous hypocrites.


What is it about born-agains and scrapbooking?
2013-11-28 01:51:46 AM  
1 vote:
If a corporation can have a religion, can a corporation start a religion (besides Apple)?  Or could I get married by Comcast and absolved of my transgressions by, I dunno, Church & Dwight (the cleaning products folks) or whatever? Kaboom!  And the sin is gone!
 
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