Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Guardian)   "Notably, the Hobby Lobby used to have an employee insurance plan that covered the very same birth control methods it now claims violate its religious freedom" Popcorn, anyone?   (theguardian.com) divider line 168
    More: Dumbass, birth control methods, religious freedom, idea, Christian Scientists, religious values, amicus brief, contraceptives, health insurance  
•       •       •

3621 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Nov 2013 at 8:18 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



168 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-11-28 09:57:29 AM  
Is Hobby Lobby ok with biblical rape in their aisles?
 
2013-11-28 09:58:38 AM  

MFK: Warlordtrooper: Could this be pointed out in court as a counter to their arguments or not?

it farking should be!


I know it probably doesn't work this way, but I think they should have to first prove in court that they actually are Christian and abide by the actual tenets of the religion.  Want to whine that your religious rights are being infringed?  OK, first prove to us that you walk the walk.  I'm guessing not a lot of these perpetually offended jackasses would qualify.
 
2013-11-28 10:04:13 AM  
By refusing to cover contraception, the Hobby Lobby owners are in fact using their own religious beliefs to deny benefits to their employees who may not share those beliefs at all. That's not religious freedom; it's religious tyranny.

Bears repeating dot jpeg.
 
2013-11-28 10:05:19 AM  

Doctor Funkenstein: MFK: Warlordtrooper: Could this be pointed out in court as a counter to their arguments or not?

it farking should be!

I know it probably doesn't work this way, but I think they should have to first prove in court that they actually are Christian and abide by the actual tenets of the religion.  Want to whine that your religious rights are being infringed?  OK, first prove to us that you walk the walk.  I'm guessing not a lot of these perpetually offended jackasses would qualify.


If you had to actually prove you were Christian(ie, follow the teachings of Jesus), most Christians would not be capable of doing so.

/paulists
 
2013-11-28 10:06:45 AM  
Whoever came up with the idea of letting employers control healthcare should be taken out back and shot in the back of the head... and left there for the coyotes.
 
2013-11-28 10:08:41 AM  
I'd vote for a politician that stood up and said, "You know what?  Corporations and businesses really aren't all that special."
 
2013-11-28 10:09:48 AM  

Doctor Funkenstein: I know it probably doesn't work this way, but I think they should have to first prove in court that they actually are Christian and abide by the actual tenets of the religion. Want to whine that your religious rights are being infringed? OK, first prove to us that you walk the walk. I'm guessing not a lot of these perpetually offended jackasses would qualify.


Alas, they can easily prove that they abide by the tenets of what THEY think is Christianity, which is all that the gov't is allowed to check.

/it was so much easier when all the "proof" needed was to offer some incense to a statue of the Emperor. Not BETTER, just easier.
 
2013-11-28 10:10:04 AM  

Doctor Funkenstein: MFK: Warlordtrooper: Could this be pointed out in court as a counter to their arguments or not?

it farking should be!

I know it probably doesn't work this way, but I think they should have to first prove in court that they actually are Christian and abide by the actual tenets of the religion.  Want to whine that your religious rights are being infringed?  OK, first prove to us that you walk the walk.  I'm guessing not a lot of these perpetually offended jackasses would qualify.


The only problem with that is that the government would be deciding which sets of beliefs count as a religion and which do not. A violation of the first amendment
 
2013-11-28 10:12:25 AM  
So they are just like the Georgetown law school that help start much of this.  Georgetown felt it so wrong to allow contraception, that they had to have a plan to deny it from the students that were forced to purchase health insurance if they attended school there.... BUT, the employee/staff plans... well those allowed for contraception coverage.  So the administrator reviewing a students 'legitimate need' for contraception were themselves free to get it covered with no input from the employer.  I guess their morals did have limits, and as usually when it come it to such people, its when its applied to them personally.
 
2013-11-28 10:14:05 AM  
The article links to the ACLU amicus brief.  I don't suppose anyone has a source to others that I could read?
 
2013-11-28 10:14:07 AM  

Notabunny: This brings up an important point: What if Hobby Lobby has another epiphany? Will their employees be required to adhere to the new religious edicts? And what if Hobby Lobby's new religion demands specific behavior? Can Hobby Lobby force its employees to engage in the new behavior (i.e. praying 5 times per day)?


What  if they (the corporation) decides that the new beliefs also include Droit du seigneur for the CEO.
 Or that mandatory Peyote worship is now the norm?
 
2013-11-28 10:14:49 AM  

Russ1642: Whoever came up with the idea of letting employers control healthcare should be taken out back and shot in the back of the head... and left there for the coyotes.


Baylor University pretty much 'started it" by offering to pay for teacher's medical bills in exchange for them paying a little each month back in the 1920's. That little system grew up to become BCBS. Then WWII happened (thanks Hitler) and due to government rationing, changing tax laws, etc., employers started offering health insurance.

So blame BCBS or Hitler. I doubt anyone would oppose shooting either one in the head.
 
2013-11-28 10:15:31 AM  
As if we didn't already have enough proof that Obama lied when he said "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan."
 
2013-11-28 10:16:53 AM  
images.popmatters.com
 
2013-11-28 10:17:31 AM  

markfara: rev. dave: Michaels has basically he same stuff, fewer crosses and fewer self-righteous hypocrites.

What is it about born-agains and scrapbooking?


As desperate and burning desire to relive a 1950's that never actually was.
 
2013-11-28 10:19:47 AM  

starsrift: "The company heads bringing these claims want to have it both ways. By incorporating, owners and shareholders create separate entities and are not personally liable for their employees' salaries or health insurance costs - the entire point of incorporating is to create a legal entity separate from the individuals who created it. Yet these owners and shareholders want the court to consider their personal religious beliefs indistinguishable from those of the corporation, and allow those beliefs to dictate the kind of healthcare coverage their employees receive."

This is probably the most coherent argument. But if they went on it, they'd have to make a separate case for non-incorporated businesses...


How many businesses with 50 or more employees, and therefore obligated under Obamacare to provide any insurance, whether it covers birth control or not, are unincorporated?
 
2013-11-28 10:25:19 AM  

Antifun: Relatively Obscure: Can I marry Walmart, divorce Walmart, and make Walmart pay me alimony?


maybe, but you'll have to consummate the marriage before teh divorce


I'd say just signing the marriage license would suffice, everyone gets farked by WalMart.
 
2013-11-28 10:30:29 AM  

Karac: starsrift: "The company heads bringing these claims want to have it both ways. By incorporating, owners and shareholders create separate entities and are not personally liable for their employees' salaries or health insurance costs - the entire point of incorporating is to create a legal entity separate from the individuals who created it. Yet these owners and shareholders want the court to consider their personal religious beliefs indistinguishable from those of the corporation, and allow those beliefs to dictate the kind of healthcare coverage their employees receive."

This is probably the most coherent argument. But if they went on it, they'd have to make a separate case for non-incorporated businesses...

How many businesses with 50 or more employees, and therefore obligated under Obamacare to provide any insurance, whether it covers birth control or not, are unincorporated?


If someone is smart enough to get a business to be successful and grow to have +50 employees, I would have a hard time imagining that they aren't incorporated. I would put the number maybe at like 5 in the entire country.
 
2013-11-28 10:38:14 AM  

Karac: starsrift: "The company heads bringing these claims want to have it both ways. By incorporating, owners and shareholders create separate entities and are not personally liable for their employees' salaries or health insurance costs - the entire point of incorporating is to create a legal entity separate from the individuals who created it. Yet these owners and shareholders want the court to consider their personal religious beliefs indistinguishable from those of the corporation, and allow those beliefs to dictate the kind of healthcare coverage their employees receive."

This is probably the most coherent argument. But if they went on it, they'd have to make a separate case for non-incorporated businesses...

How many businesses with 50 or more employees, and therefore obligated under Obamacare to provide any insurance, whether it covers birth control or not, are unincorporated?


A business of that size is going to need relationships with other parties: suppliers, banks, accountants, etc, none of whom will sign a contract for services unless the business is incorporated.
 
2013-11-28 10:38:25 AM  

SoupGuru: I'd vote for a politician that stood up and said, "You know what?  Corporations and businesses really aren't all that special."


So would half of the country.  The other half would stroke out and/or be frothing at the mouth too much to make any recognizable sound other than WHARRGARBLE!!!
 
2013-11-28 10:43:32 AM  
 This is not a fight that the right really wants to have. It cost far more to have a baby than it does to not have a baby. I promise you that if they win this one you will see more companies covering contraception, abortion, and the like while doing away with coverage for having a baby that will eat up additional cost via insurance.
 
2013-11-28 10:48:07 AM  
RubberBandMan: "Only through bankruptcy can a corporation be saved and be born again."

King Barilla version, Chapters 7 and 11
 
2013-11-28 10:49:29 AM  
 Also it's more than a little bit telling that they throw a fit about the government "getting between them and their doctor" yet they have no issue with corporations actually doing just that.
 
2013-11-28 10:50:43 AM  
I look forward to the day when a Jehovah's Witness owned company says that their health insurance will no longer cover blood transfusions. There would not be enough popcorn in the world to keep us covered while watching that play out.
 
2013-11-28 10:51:39 AM  

GWSuperfan: If corporations are people, wouldn't owning a corporation be slavery?


In fairness many slaves were treated better then companies taken over by Bain Capital.
 
2013-11-28 10:54:01 AM  
I just wonder how long it will be before a corporation brings the argument that if corporations are people, then actual living people are property.

Probably not long if they do say that a corporation has religious rights under the 1st amendment.  They just need to find a reason to nullify that pesky 13th.
 
2013-11-28 10:54:59 AM  
I'd be curious to know if Hobby Lobby provides paid maternity benefits, seeing as how they disapprove of contraception & all.
 
2013-11-28 10:58:06 AM  

log_jammin: Relatively Obscure: If a corporation can have a religion, can a corporation start a religion (besides Apple)?  Or could I get married by Comcast and absolved of my transgressions by, I dunno, Church & Dwight (the cleaning products folks) or whatever? Kaboom!  And the sin is gone!

better yet, can a corporation go to jail?


I'd like to see arguments exploring this. JP Morgan would get worried...
 
2013-11-28 11:01:41 AM  
I like Hobby Lobby. More unwanted babies with desperate, underpaid mothers = more readily available ultra fresh Satanic sacrifice fuel. Plus they have cheap wood circles that are just the right size for pentagram inscription for said sacrificial rites.
 
2013-11-28 11:02:20 AM  

Antifun: Relatively Obscure: Can I marry Walmart, divorce Walmart, and make Walmart pay me alimony?


maybe, but you'll have to consummate the marriage before teh divorce


Low barrier: Walmart pretty much screws anybody not named Walton who has ever associated with it.
 
2013-11-28 11:06:04 AM  

kidgenius: From a purely contraceptive point of view I'm beginning to wonder if any decision here will matter. All insurance companies more have to provide maternity coverage. They also know that the pill is about a thousand times cheaper than paying for a pregnancy and any subsequent complications and healthcare for the child. Its in the insurance companies best interest to provide coverage. Won't it be next to impossible for hobby lobby to even find insurance that does not cover contraception?



Yeah, which would be when they would claim a religious exception to the penalty because they can't find an insurance company that uses goat herders and fishers that died 2000+ years ago as actuaries.
 
2013-11-28 11:08:58 AM  

Warlordtrooper: Doctor Funkenstein: MFK: Warlordtrooper: Could this be pointed out in court as a counter to their arguments or not?

it farking should be!

I know it probably doesn't work this way, but I think they should have to first prove in court that they actually are Christian and abide by the actual tenets of the religion.  Want to whine that your religious rights are being infringed?  OK, first prove to us that you walk the walk.  I'm guessing not a lot of these perpetually offended jackasses would qualify.

The only problem with that is that the government would be deciding which sets of beliefs count as a religion and which do not. A violation of the first amendment


If the snowflakes are asking for a special exemption from the law that the rest of the nation has to follow:

lh3.ggpht.com
 
2013-11-28 11:11:12 AM  

The Madd Mann: A company owned entirely by Christians has religious beliefs the same way a company owned entirely by African Americans is somehow black. That is to say, not at all.


Magic Johnson's Starbucks franchises sell coffee like *this*
 
2013-11-28 11:16:11 AM  

Yakk: Notably, the Hobby Lobby used to have an employee insurance plan that covered the very same birth control methods it now claims violate its religious freedom. It wasn't until the GOP raised a stink about the contraception rules in Obama's healthcare legislation that the Hobby Lobby "re-examined" its insurance policies.

Are you farking kidding me? And this got to the Supreme Court?


I hope some Justice (Ginsburg??) slaps them down for this cynical opportunistic obvious bullshiat case.  The GOP was shopping around for anything to challenge ACA in the courts and Hobby Lobby volunteered.  "You had no problem with contraception for how many years until the ACA said you had to provide it... then you have moral problems?  Does that sound a little political to you?  A little disingenuous?  Maybe a calculated bit of theater at the expense of Hobby Lobby's employees?"
 
2013-11-28 11:26:17 AM  

Russ1642: Whoever came up with the idea of letting employers control healthcare should be taken out back and shot in the back of the head... and left there for the coyotes.


www.rugusavay.com
 
2013-11-28 11:29:35 AM  
Well... like Mormon's and Las Vegas, you can't win by banning what you oppose. The path forward is to discourage followers and shame them into contributing more to the church in exchange for having access to mocha lattes and slot machines.
 
2013-11-28 11:32:41 AM  

Zombalupagus: By refusing to cover contraception, the Hobby Lobby owners are in fact using their own religious beliefs to deny benefits to their employees who may not share those beliefs at all. That's not religious freedom; it's religious tyranny.

Bears repeating dot jpeg.


also known as corporate fascism. but but secret Muslim Kenyan socialism or some shiat.
 
2013-11-28 11:32:43 AM  

kidgenius: Karac: starsrift: "The company heads bringing these claims want to have it both ways. By incorporating, owners and shareholders create separate entities and are not personally liable for their employees' salaries or health insurance costs - the entire point of incorporating is to create a legal entity separate from the individuals who created it. Yet these owners and shareholders want the court to consider their personal religious beliefs indistinguishable from those of the corporation, and allow those beliefs to dictate the kind of healthcare coverage their employees receive."

This is probably the most coherent argument. But if they went on it, they'd have to make a separate case for non-incorporated businesses...

How many businesses with 50 or more employees, and therefore obligated under Obamacare to provide any insurance, whether it covers birth control or not, are unincorporated?

If someone is smart enough to get a business to be successful and grow to have +50 employees, I would have a hard time imagining that they aren't incorporated. I would put the number maybe at like 5 in the entire country.


blogs-images.forbes.com
 
2013-11-28 11:34:01 AM  

pueblonative: Warlordtrooper: Doctor Funkenstein: MFK: Warlordtrooper: Could this be pointed out in court as a counter to their arguments or not?

it farking should be!

I know it probably doesn't work this way, but I think they should have to first prove in court that they actually are Christian and abide by the actual tenets of the religion.  Want to whine that your religious rights are being infringed?  OK, first prove to us that you walk the walk.  I'm guessing not a lot of these perpetually offended jackasses would qualify.

The only problem with that is that the government would be deciding which sets of beliefs count as a religion and which do not. A violation of the first amendment

If the snowflakes are asking for a special exemption from the law that the rest of the nation has to follow:

[lh3.ggpht.com image 379x214]


Thing is you sort of don't want the government to be able to define what is or isn't a religion.  First of all is because religion is just a made up set of beliefs and second of all the next logical step is for a fundamentalist in the government to declare all religions besides their own brand of Christianity as not real religions.
 
2013-11-28 11:35:34 AM  

log_jammin: what pisses me off about this case is that it should be a 9-0 decision, but everyone knows it's going to be either 4-5 or 5-4. again.


didn't count how many THIS you got but add mine. this case should have been thrown out as frivolous. and that up held on appeal and massive cost assigned for wasting the courts time.
 
2013-11-28 11:35:51 AM  
I have NO faith that our Supreme Court will reach the right decision on this, especially given the current make-up of it.  I'm expecting to see my right to have medically prescribed birth control taken from me, all because of religion.   This is NOT the country my granddad went to war for.
 
2013-11-28 11:39:59 AM  
Aquapope:

A little disingenuous? Maybe a calculated bit of theater at the expense of Hobby Lobby's employees?

That doesn't even slow them down... The one that amazed me was the owner of Papa John's Pizza biatching about how providing healthcare for their workers might cost an extra two cents a pie while running an ad where he was giving away a million dollars worth of pizza in a Superbowl promotion.
 
2013-11-28 11:42:53 AM  
On its face, it seems odd to even consider the question seriously. After all, no one is forcing the owners of the company to take contraception or purchase contraception. The belief in question - that certain types of contraception are "abortifacients" - is also far from scientific fact. Also, the company owners issue their employees a pay check and have no say over how the employees spend it; they have no say over the activities their employees participate in on a vacation day.

It's certainly not violating the company's religious freedom for an employee to use the money paid to them by the company for a whole series of things that the company owner may find religiously objectionable, including buying contraception. It's certainly not violating the company's religious freedom for an employee to use a company-issued vacation day to enjoy a whole series of things that the company owner may find religiously objectionable, including, say, a full-day contracepted sex-fest, a trip to Mecca or a pork barbecue.


I've made these exact points several times before. Frankly, I'm amazed that this even got all the way to the Supreme Court.
 
2013-11-28 11:44:34 AM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: kidgenius: Karac: starsrift: "The company heads bringing these claims want to have it both ways. By incorporating, owners and shareholders create separate entities and are not personally liable for their employees' salaries or health insurance costs - the entire point of incorporating is to create a legal entity separate from the individuals who created it. Yet these owners and shareholders want the court to consider their personal religious beliefs indistinguishable from those of the corporation, and allow those beliefs to dictate the kind of healthcare coverage their employees receive."

This is probably the most coherent argument. But if they went on it, they'd have to make a separate case for non-incorporated businesses...

How many businesses with 50 or more employees, and therefore obligated under Obamacare to provide any insurance, whether it covers birth control or not, are unincorporated?

If someone is smart enough to get a business to be successful and grow to have +50 employees, I would have a hard time imagining that they aren't incorporated. I would put the number maybe at like 5 in the entire country.

[blogs-images.forbes.com image 398x293]


That image is a list of Private companies.  They're incorporated, but not public.
 
2013-11-28 11:45:09 AM  
Genuine question, no snark: what is the religious basis for a prohibition against birth control?  I've read the Bible cover to cover, twice, and don't recall any mention of birth control.
 
2013-11-28 11:46:15 AM  

mrshowrules: GWSuperfan: If corporations are people, wouldn't owning a corporation be slavery?

In fairness many slaves were treated better then companies taken over by Bain Capital.


True. Bain castrated Dunkin Donuts, taking production out of the store and turning them into dispensaries dependent on coffee sales.
 
2013-11-28 11:46:41 AM  

capn' fun: Genuine question, no snark: what is the religious basis for a prohibition against birth control?  I've read the Bible cover to cover, twice, and don't recall any mention of birth control.


You'll have an even harder time finding the religious basis for a prohibition against providing health insurance plans that merely cover birth control.
 
2013-11-28 11:47:45 AM  

capn' fun: Genuine question, no snark: what is the religious basis for a prohibition against birth control?  I've read the Bible cover to cover, twice, and don't recall any mention of birth control.


There isn't one.

Christian zealots are passionate defenders of what they imagine the Bible to be.
 
2013-11-28 11:49:28 AM  
What's the Biblical basis for corporations?
 
2013-11-28 11:49:41 AM  

grumpfuff: capn' fun: Genuine question, no snark: what is the religious basis for a prohibition against birth control?  I've read the Bible cover to cover, twice, and don't recall any mention of birth control.

There isn't one.

Christian zealots are passionate defenders of what they imagine the Bible to be.


And they ignore all of the references in the bible that allow for slavery.
 
Displayed 50 of 168 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report