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(Guardian)   "Notably, the Hobby Lobby used to have an employee insurance plan that covered the very same birth control methods it now claims violate its religious freedom" Popcorn, anyone?   (theguardian.com) divider line 168
    More: Dumbass, birth control methods, religious freedom, idea, Christian Scientists, religious values, amicus brief, contraceptives, health insurance  
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3607 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Nov 2013 at 8:18 AM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



168 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-11-28 12:23:04 AM
... I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning.
 
2013-11-28 12:41:55 AM
How dare you question their righteous indignation at being forced to do something by that... person
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-11-28 12:47:59 AM
My homeowners policy covers personal watercraft up to 50 feet long.  I don't live near the water and don't own a boat. (TRUE)


farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2013-11-28 01:17:41 AM
Obviously, the company had a religious epiphany, in which it was saved by Jesus. Now, it is redeemed and realizes it cannot offer such plans, as it would be a sin, and then the company might spend eternity in hell after it's dissolved.
 
2013-11-28 01:25:01 AM
what pisses me off about this case is that it should be a 9-0 decision, but everyone knows it's going to be either 4-5 or 5-4. again.
 
2013-11-28 01:34:50 AM

log_jammin: what pisses me off about this case is that it should be a 9-0 decision, but everyone knows it's going to be either 4-5 or 5-4. again.


A whole lotta THIS.
 
2013-11-28 01:51:46 AM
If a corporation can have a religion, can a corporation start a religion (besides Apple)?  Or could I get married by Comcast and absolved of my transgressions by, I dunno, Church & Dwight (the cleaning products folks) or whatever? Kaboom!  And the sin is gone!
 
2013-11-28 01:58:50 AM

Relatively Obscure: If a corporation can have a religion, can a corporation start a religion (besides Apple)?  Or could I get married by Comcast and absolved of my transgressions by, I dunno, Church & Dwight (the cleaning products folks) or whatever? Kaboom!  And the sin is gone!


better yet, can a corporation go to jail?
 
2013-11-28 03:11:37 AM
If corporations are people, wouldn't owning a corporation be slavery?
 
2013-11-28 03:29:57 AM
Can I marry Walmart, divorce Walmart, and make Walmart pay me alimony?
 
2013-11-28 08:21:53 AM

Relatively Obscure: Can I marry Walmart, divorce Walmart, and make Walmart pay me alimony?



maybe, but you'll have to consummate the marriage before teh divorce
 
2013-11-28 08:22:15 AM

Relatively Obscure: If a corporation can have a religion, can a corporation start a religion (besides Apple)?  Or could I get married by Comcast and absolved of my transgressions by, I dunno, Church & Dwight (the cleaning products folks) or whatever? Kaboom!  And the sin is gone!


I'll jump aboard the corporate personhood bandwagon just as soon as Texas executes one of them.
 
2013-11-28 08:24:14 AM
www.gannett-cdn.com

Pardon me... You were saying?
 
2013-11-28 08:25:05 AM
Michaels has basically he same stuff, fewer crosses and fewer self-righteous hypocrites.
 
2013-11-28 08:26:45 AM

rev. dave: Michaels has basically he same stuff, fewer crosses and fewer self-righteous hypocrites.


What is it about born-agains and scrapbooking?
 
2013-11-28 08:36:40 AM
It's all about  the genetics......virtually nothing else matters. Not law, not mores, not ethics, not merit.  It's all about redistribution and recompensation, based on genetics.  Period......PROFIT!
 
2013-11-28 08:43:25 AM

Antifun: Relatively Obscure: Can I marry Walmart, divorce Walmart, and make Walmart pay me alimony?


maybe, but you'll have to consummate the marriage before teh divorce


Plenty of folks are f*cked by Walmart.
 
2013-11-28 08:44:21 AM
Notably, the Hobby Lobby used to have an employee insurance plan that covered the very same birth control methods it now claims violate its religious freedom. It wasn't until the GOP raised a stink about the contraception rules in Obama's healthcare legislation that the Hobby Lobby "re-examined" its insurance policies.

Are you farking kidding me? And this got to the Supreme Court?
 
2013-11-28 08:45:15 AM
MUH FREEDUMZ!
 
2013-11-28 08:45:38 AM

NFA: My homeowners policy covers personal watercraft up to 50 feet long. I don't live near the water and don't own a boat. (TRUE)


My homeowners policy expressly does NOT cover any damage caused by a hovercraft.


"Certain Underwriters" at Lloyd's of London are such jerks!
 
2013-11-28 08:47:11 AM

rev. dave: Michaels has basically he same stuff, fewer crosses and fewer self-righteous hypocrites.


But they still have a lot of crosses and self-righteous hypocrites
 
2013-11-28 08:52:47 AM
MaudlinMutantMollusk: How dare you question their righteous indignation at being forced to do something by that... [black]  person

FTFY
 
2013-11-28 08:53:26 AM

Yakk: Notably, the Hobby Lobby used to have an employee insurance plan that covered the very same birth control methods it now claims violate its religious freedom. It wasn't until the GOP raised a stink about the contraception rules in Obama's healthcare legislation that the Hobby Lobby "re-examined" its insurance policies.

Are you farking kidding me? And this got to the Supreme Court?


So, same with all the religious colleges that started to complain about their own insurance about 2 years ago.
 
2013-11-28 08:53:45 AM
Could this be pointed out in court as a counter to their arguments or not?
 
2013-11-28 08:56:15 AM

Alphax: Yakk: Notably, the Hobby Lobby used to have an employee insurance plan that covered the very same birth control methods it now claims violate its religious freedom. It wasn't until the GOP raised a stink about the contraception rules in Obama's healthcare legislation that the Hobby Lobby "re-examined" its insurance policies.

Are you farking kidding me? And this got to the Supreme Court?

So, same with all the religious colleges that started to complain about their own insurance about 2 years ago.


It's almost as if they don't actually care about that particular rule, and are just using it to attack a President they dislike.
 
2013-11-28 08:57:27 AM
Notably, the Hobby Lobby used to have an employee insurance plan that covered the very same birth control methods it now claims violate its religious freedom. It wasn't until the GOP raised a stink about the contraception rules in Obama's healthcare legislation that the Hobby Lobby "re-examined" its insurance policies.

Making sure insurance policies actually cover real things real people need and want should not be controversial in 2013.

The cases the supreme court will hear were brought under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), which bars the government from "substantially burden[ing] a person's exercise of religion" unless that burden is justified by a "compelling reason".

Not dying from preventable ovarian cancers cos your insurance plan sucks because some Jesus freaks decided that denying you medicine is the moral thing to do seems pretty compelling to me.
 
MFK
2013-11-28 08:58:22 AM

Warlordtrooper: Could this be pointed out in court as a counter to their arguments or not?


it farking should be!
 
2013-11-28 09:01:22 AM
This is a cynical power grab disguised as a religious freedom case.  If I were a Christian I would be upset.
 
2013-11-28 09:01:26 AM
fark these guys right in their earholes, eye sockets, nostrils, mouth, and unlubed assholes.
 
2013-11-28 09:02:44 AM
Great opportunity to finally divorce health insurance from employment.

Also, paying for the Hallmark channel as part of my cable subscription is a violation of my freedom of religion. Unbundle already!
 
2013-11-28 09:05:48 AM
If the SCOTUS rules in favor of Hobby Lobby the shiat will hit the fan, but the glimmer of hope will be if enough people realize the idiocy of having our health insurance coupled with our employment. Single payer anyone?
 
2013-11-28 09:07:07 AM

hinten: Great opportunity to finally divorce health insurance from employment.

Also, paying for the Hallmark channel as part of my cable subscription is a violation of my freedom of religion. Unbundle already!


That's a good point.  Why is my money going to EWTN?
 
2013-11-28 09:12:11 AM
Its all a matter of time until a business owner who is a Christian Scientist refuses to provide insurance that covers medicine.
 
2013-11-28 09:14:46 AM

how42itous: Its all a matter of time until a business owner who is a Christian Scientist refuses to provide insurance that covers medicine.


I'm pretty sure we already covered that one.
 
2013-11-28 09:16:17 AM
A company owned entirely by Christians has religious beliefs the same way a company owned entirely by African Americans is somehow black. That is to say, not at all.
 
2013-11-28 09:17:12 AM
This brings up an important point: What if Hobby Lobby has another epiphany? Will their employees be required to adhere to the new religious edicts? And what if Hobby Lobby's new religion demands specific behavior? Can Hobby Lobby force its employees to engage in the new behavior (i.e. praying 5 times per day)?
 
2013-11-28 09:21:53 AM
"In another case a religiously-affiliated school gave male employees a "head of household" supplement not offered to female employees because, according to their sincerely-held religious views, men should be the family's breadwinner."

My mother was once denied a raise because another male colleague had "just had a baby and he needs the extra income now." "She pointed out that she was raising two kids and that gender might not be a completely legal reason to make decisions regarding compensation. She got the raise. This happened in the farking late 70s for fark's sake.

Wake me up when we're done treating women like brood mares, mkay?
 
2013-11-28 09:22:48 AM
If businesses get religious rights, my LLC is declaring itself Rastafarian (for um ... tax reasons).
 
2013-11-28 09:24:23 AM

Relatively Obscure: Can I marry Walmart, divorce Walmart, and make Walmart pay me alimony?


Good plan, but something tells me that, by the time those divorce proceedings were over, you would be legally obligated to spend $1000 a month at any Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart SuperCenter, or Wal-Mart Home Market stores.
 
2013-11-28 09:26:22 AM
Yes, but now we can blame it on Obama. My insurance went up $10 in 2007, $35 in 2010 and is going up $5 this year. This time ITS BECAUSE OF OBAMA!! and I'm outraged!!   or something.
 
2013-11-28 09:29:35 AM
"The company heads bringing these claims want to have it both ways. By incorporating, owners and shareholders create separate entities and are not personally liable for their employees' salaries or health insurance costs - the entire point of incorporating is to create a legal entity separate from the individuals who created it. Yet these owners and shareholders want the court to consider their personal religious beliefs indistinguishable from those of the corporation, and allow those beliefs to dictate the kind of healthcare coverage their employees receive."

This is probably the most coherent argument. But if they went on it, they'd have to make a separate case for non-incorporated businesses...
 
2013-11-28 09:30:50 AM
Only through bankruptcy can a corporation be saved and be born again.
 
2013-11-28 09:35:55 AM

RubberBandMan: Only through bankruptcy can a corporation be saved and be born again.


I LOLed!!!!
 
2013-11-28 09:37:48 AM
Also, if you're going to claim this violates your religion, show the the passage in the bible that states: "thou shalt not give money to a third party, to be put in a fund, that may or may not be used to provide for the cost of hormone control, that has the side effect of preventing pregnancy, as a form of deferred payment to your employees."
 
2013-11-28 09:37:57 AM
As an ordained minister of the Church of Life, I am now offering marriages to any company you want. Feel like being an oil tycoon? Shack up with Exxon-Mobil.
 
2013-11-28 09:39:35 AM
From a purely contraceptive point of view I'm beginning to wonder if any decision here will matter. All insurance companies more have to provide maternity coverage. They also know that the pill is about a thousand times cheaper than paying for a pregnancy and any subsequent complications and healthcare for the child. Its in the insurance companies best interest to provide coverage. Won't it be next to impossible for hobby lobby to even find insurance that does not cover contraception?

Though, like citizens united, the decision here could have far reaching consequences as corporations adopt religion (or make them up while cloth) and claim many other things that corporations hate are against their religion.
 
2013-11-28 09:39:57 AM
Persecution envy.

Christian evangelicals legitimately make life harder for the people they don't like. They don't like being confronted with this fact because it makes them look bad, so they have to constantly find ways to portray themselves as victims of the kind of persecution they engage in every day.
 
2013-11-28 09:40:15 AM

RubberBandMan: Only through bankruptcy can a corporation be saved and be born again.


Socialize the sin, and privatize the redemption?
 
2013-11-28 09:47:16 AM

PanicMan: Also, if you're going to claim this violates your religion, show the the passage in the bible that states: "thou shalt not give money to a third party, to be put in a fund, that may or may not be used to provide for the cost of hormone control, that has the side effect of preventing pregnancy, as a form of deferred payment to your employees."


I wonder if the court could hand down a ruling along the lines of:
"As the corporation, nor its stakeholders, are required by the law to take contraceptives themselves, then law has not violated the freedom of religion of the corporation or stakeholders. Therefore, being required to provide coverage for contraceptives, and not the contraceptives themselves, to an employee of said corporation, the religious rights of the corporation have not been found to be violated."

Or, are hiring candidates considered corporate fetuses? Are they born if they are hired? If they aren't hired, were those candidates aborted? If the corporation isn't actively hiring anyone once a month, are they considered to be on birth control?
 
2013-11-28 09:52:02 AM
Furthermore....

Is the government forcing its will on Hobby Lobby legitimate corporate rape? Actual corporate rape? Doesn't Hobby Lobby have a way of shutting that down?
 
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