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(io9)   The Eight Worst Mistakes Made by the Allies in WWII. Missing from list: Allowing Germany to bomb Pearl Harbor   (io9.com) divider line 264
    More: Interesting, Western Allies, military operation plan, strategic reserve, Nazi Germany, Brazilian Expeditionary Force, home runs, Joseph Goebbels  
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14312 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Nov 2013 at 7:38 PM (21 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-27 06:13:04 PM
4. Underestimating the Japanese

... and the biggest error the Japanese made was underestimating the US. At Midway where they largely lost the war, their plan included complex steps to force the Americans to sortie their fleet and fight, as the Japanese assumed they would otherwise cower in Pearl Harbor. Before the war they were utterly convinced of the superiority of their fighting commitment, and this was exacerbated by their easy victories early on; they mistook the lack of preparation for war by the US for confirmation of their inevitable victory over those who didn't understand and didn't live by bushido.

And pride as they say goeth before a fall.
 
2013-11-27 06:19:21 PM
9. Not banning hindsight from all future discussion.
 
2013-11-27 06:23:57 PM
1. The Failure to Attack Germany After It Invaded Poland

With what forces, exactly?  Where?  With what objective?

The French were still the following Napoleanic strategies of massing huge numbers of nasty armed men and marching them down your gullet.  That sort of strategy does not lend itself to offensive operations through the Ardennes.  And the French weren't going to roll through Belgiium to get to Germany, as opposed to vice versa.  They relied on the Maginot Line to the south, and they paid the price.
 
2013-11-27 06:25:38 PM
2. The Failure to Anticipate a German Blitz Through the Ardennes

Armored vehicles.  On dirt roads.  In the words and swamps.  The very idea was laughable, and had been demonstrated so at the time.
 
2013-11-27 06:27:36 PM
3. America's Failure to Immediately Adopt the Convoy System

Supplying England was a free market endeavo(u)r.  If you want to risk your ass hauling freight to the UK, why should the US Navy put our boys on the line for your sorry ass profits?  War profiteering was frowed on where I came from.
 
2013-11-27 06:30:26 PM
4. Underestimating the Japanese

We knew damn well that cutting off raw materials to the Japanese would provoke a string reaction.  And as far as "underestimating" them, we kicked their asses in 44 months with one hand tied behind our backs.  Then when the Soviets arrived to steal their land, the farkers unconditionally surrendered to us because they knew we'd be nicer to them.
 
2013-11-27 06:31:38 PM
The rest are so silly as to not even merit derision.
 
2013-11-27 06:32:33 PM

vossiewulf: ... and the biggest error the Japanese made was underestimating the US. At Midway where they largely lost the war, their plan included complex steps to force the Americans to sortie their fleet and fight, as the Japanese assumed they would otherwise cower in Pearl Harbor. Before the war they were utterly convinced of the superiority of their fighting commitment, and this was exacerbated by their easy victories early on; they mistook the lack of preparation for war by the US for confirmation of their inevitable victory over those who didn't understand and didn't live by bushido.


That's certainly true of the Tojo Administration and the ultranationalists in the government. But there were elements in the Japanese military, chief among them Admiral Yamamoto, who foresaw the difficulty in fighting a protracted war with the US and wanted no part of it.

Perhaps that's what you meant, but I find a general failure among people in this country to understand what happened in Japan to lead it to its self-destructive course, which is unfortunate because a lot of lessons from their experience are directly applicable to us.
 
2013-11-27 06:37:03 PM

Marcus Aurelius: 4. Underestimating the Japanese

We knew damn well that cutting off raw materials to the Japanese would provoke a string reaction.  And as far as "underestimating" them, we kicked their asses in 44 months with one hand tied behind our backs.  Then when the Soviets arrived to steal their land, the farkers unconditionally surrendered to us because they knew we'd be nicer to them.


Well, I imagine a couple of leveled, smouldering, used-to-be cities were a bit of an influence, too

/teensy bit, anyway
 
2013-11-27 06:43:16 PM

Marcus Aurelius: The rest are so silly as to not even merit derision.


Market Garden was a colossal fark up.
 
2013-11-27 06:44:19 PM

Marcus Aurelius: The rest are so silly as to not even merit derision.


Oh, I don't know, I think Market Garden was a pretty major fark-up and certainly worthy of being called so.
 
2013-11-27 06:44:55 PM

Some Bass Playing Guy: Marcus Aurelius: The rest are so silly as to not even merit derision.

Market Garden was a colossal fark up.


<shakes fist>
 
2013-11-27 07:01:36 PM

Marcus Aurelius: 1. The Failure to Attack Germany After It Invaded Poland

With what forces, exactly?  Where?  With what objective?

The French were still the following Napoleanic strategies of massing huge numbers of nasty armed men and marching them down your gullet.  That sort of strategy does not lend itself to offensive operations through the Ardennes.  And the French weren't going to roll through Belgiium to get to Germany, as opposed to vice versa.  They relied on the Maginot Line to the south, and they paid the price.


The French had 40 divisions positioned to plow through the Saar and Siegfried line when Germany was looking the other direction. Their commanders sucked, and their tanks and tactics could not match the German's, but it would have seriously slowed Hitler's momentum in Europe.
 
2013-11-27 07:04:37 PM
Market Garden was nothing compared to the A number one screw-up of WWII.

The A number one screw-up of WWII was the theory that B-17s could roam enemy airspace in the daytime without a fighter escort.  My father spent a lot of time in the nose of B-17's during the early 1940's.  I am extraordinarily lucky to be here.
 
2013-11-27 07:07:48 PM
Shiat, if we did this then we wouldn't have lost the war.
 
2013-11-27 07:08:42 PM

violentsalvation: Marcus Aurelius: 1. The Failure to Attack Germany After It Invaded Poland

With what forces, exactly?  Where?  With what objective?

The French were still the following Napoleanic strategies of massing huge numbers of nasty armed men and marching them down your gullet.  That sort of strategy does not lend itself to offensive operations through the Ardennes.  And the French weren't going to roll through Belgiium to get to Germany, as opposed to vice versa.  They relied on the Maginot Line to the south, and they paid the price.

The French had 40 divisions positioned to plow through the Saar and Siegfried line when Germany was looking the other direction. Their commanders sucked, and their tanks and tactics could not match the German's, but it would have seriously slowed Hitler's momentum in Europe.


The French kept looking for an army to line up against, and none presented itself.  It was an evolution in warfare, with England and France as the Dodo birds.
 
2013-11-27 07:17:51 PM

Marcus Aurelius: 3. America's Failure to Immediately Adopt the Convoy System

Supplying England was a free market endeavo(u)r.  If you want to risk your ass hauling freight to the UK, why should the US Navy put our boys on the line for your sorry ass profits?  War profiteering was frowed on where I came from.


It wasn't just that:  The US didn't have the wherewithal to immediately adopt the convoy system on the Eastern Seaboard.  It didn't have enough available escort ships.

There was no way to implement any kind of an effective convoy system without the destroyers, destroyer escorts, and other escort vessels necessary.  We just didn't have the ships available.
 
2013-11-27 07:20:43 PM
4. Underestimating the Japanese

Worst mistake of the Japanese:  Underestimating the resolve of the US.  They thought we'd fold after 6 months or a year of getting our asses kicked.

They mistook our diversity for a weakness instead of a strength.
 
2013-11-27 07:30:11 PM

dittybopper: 4. Underestimating the Japanese

Worst mistake of the Japanese:  Underestimating the resolve of the US.  They thought we'd fold after 6 months or a year of getting our asses kicked.

They mistook our diversity for a weakness instead of a strength.


"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

~Rand Paul
 
2013-11-27 07:39:13 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Market Garden was nothing compared to the A number one screw-up of WWII.

The A number one screw-up of WWII was the theory that B-17s could roam enemy airspace in the daytime without a fighter escort.  My father spent a lot of time in the nose of B-17's during the early 1940's.  I am extraordinarily lucky to be here.


I salute your father's testicles.
 
2013-11-27 07:40:43 PM

dittybopper: Marcus Aurelius: 3. America's Failure to Immediately Adopt the Convoy System

Supplying England was a free market endeavo(u)r.  If you want to risk your ass hauling freight to the UK, why should the US Navy put our boys on the line for your sorry ass profits?  War profiteering was frowed on where I came from.

It wasn't just that:  The US didn't have the wherewithal to immediately adopt the convoy system on the Eastern Seaboard.  It didn't have enough available escort ships.

There was no way to implement any kind of an effective convoy system without the destroyers, destroyer escorts, and other escort vessels necessary.  We just didn't have the ships available.


How can you have a convoy without CB radios?
 
2013-11-27 07:46:45 PM
Attacking into the Hurtgen Forest was worse than a few of these.
 
2013-11-27 07:48:09 PM
Stop...I want to play Axis and Allies now....
 
2013-11-27 07:48:59 PM
Germany bombed Pearl Harbor? What the fark!
 
2013-11-27 07:49:07 PM
Market Garden should be #1.  The others were winds of war.   Montgomery was a douchebag.  He knew his tanks would never get there in time to relieve the US paratroops and the Poles who went in ahead of him to get the bridges.  An arrogant brit turd is all he was.
 
2013-11-27 07:49:19 PM

Marcus Aurelius: The rest are so silly as to not even merit derision.


"Germans?"
"Forget it; he's rollin'."
 
2013-11-27 07:51:16 PM

TheTurtle: Marcus Aurelius: The rest are so silly as to not even merit derision.

"Germans?"
"Forget it; he's rollin'."


And it ain't over now!
 
2013-11-27 07:51:17 PM
Not letting General Patton have full control over our forces.
 
2013-11-27 07:52:39 PM
4. Underestimating the Japanese

I'll jump on this one as well.  All the talk about the sub-human Japanese race was simple propaganda aimed at US civilians and regular GIs.  US military leaders knew the might of Japan and what they did in China, they were not underestimated one bit at the beginning of the war or end.

/when my grandmother went senile, she would hide in the closet because "the japs were looking for her"
 
2013-11-27 07:52:59 PM
fra This is, of course, an incomplete and highly subjective list. Many other "blunders" may belong on this list,

Whatever. But surely having half of the Dulles brothers vociferously arguing that American investment bankers ought to fund the Nazi economy should belong on the list. Anyone?

/farkin' crickets
 
2013-11-27 07:53:15 PM
Not letting Audie Murphy lead all battles was a big mistake.
 
2013-11-27 07:53:17 PM
Anzio.  My one maternal uncle was there and got shot three times. He has a box full of awards and medals and refuses to say word one about his service.
 
2013-11-27 07:54:20 PM

revrendjim: I salute your father's testicles.


Hmmm, I will have to remember this toast next time I am really drunk at a wedding reception or something.
 
2013-11-27 07:56:44 PM
My dad decided as a 15 year old that a good alternative to losing a third home to German bombers in London was to lie about his age and join the British Merchant Navy.

He never went to a post-war reunion. They could've held them in a mini-van.

/also lucky to be here.
 
2013-11-27 07:57:29 PM

revrendjim: dittybopper: Marcus Aurelius: 3. America's Failure to Immediately Adopt the Convoy System

Supplying England was a free market endeavo(u)r.  If you want to risk your ass hauling freight to the UK, why should the US Navy put our boys on the line for your sorry ass profits?  War profiteering was frowed on where I came from.

It wasn't just that:  The US didn't have the wherewithal to immediately adopt the convoy system on the Eastern Seaboard.  It didn't have enough available escort ships.

There was no way to implement any kind of an effective convoy system without the destroyers, destroyer escorts, and other escort vessels necessary.  We just didn't have the ships available.

How can you have a convoy without CB radios?


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-11-27 07:59:11 PM

Forsythe P. Jones: Stop...I want to play Axis and Allies now....


http://www.gamesbyemail.com/Games/WW2#Preview

Invite a friend via email, make a turn, wait for an email. I've got a game list with a buddy over 5 years long. Sometimes weeks go by without a move then it begins again. And free, too.
 
2013-11-27 08:02:03 PM
Quit reading after #1.  It's obvious the author doesn't know shiat about history.
 
2013-11-27 08:03:27 PM

Watubi: 4. Underestimating the Japanese

I'll jump on this one as well.  All the talk about the sub-human Japanese race was simple propaganda aimed at US civilians and regular GIs.  US military leaders knew the might of Japan and what they did in China, they were not underestimated one bit at the beginning of the war or end.

/when my grandmother went senile, she would hide in the closet because "the japs were looking for her"


An uncle of mine flew for the Navy in WWII. While newsreels back home told the story of how Japanese engineers copied worn-out old training planes for the design of their Zero fighters, Navy pilots were being warned they're the deadliest things in the air.
 
2013-11-27 08:03:43 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Market Garden was nothing compared to the A number one screw-up of WWII.

The A number one screw-up of WWII was the theory that B-17s could roam enemy airspace in the daytime without a fighter escort.  My father spent a lot of time in the nose of B-17's during the early 1940's.  I am extraordinarily lucky to be here.


It wasn't a 'theory' so much as a necessity. Precision bombing had to be done during the day and no suitable long range fighter was available until late in the war.
 
2013-11-27 08:05:41 PM
Missing: Halsey sending the carriers north, (he took the bait of a few by-then useless carriers) exposing the Leyte landings and landing fleet to a surprise Japanese naval attack -- which was only fought off by extraordinary heroism by utterly outclassed destroyers and escort (anti-submarine) carriers. It was a desperate move by the dying Imperial Navy and it almost worked, because Halsey was an arrogant fool.
 
2013-11-27 08:06:56 PM

2wolves: Anzio.  My one maternal uncle was there and got shot three times. He has a box full of awards and medals and refuses to say word one about his service.


Giving lie to what someone up above said about Patton.
 
2013-11-27 08:10:42 PM
Anzio? Should have let Patton have at 'em. Montgomery was an ego maniac; and too cautious. The world would have been a very interesting place if Patton had command instead of Ike. We'd have probably gone to war with the Russians, with us backed by the Germans, in 1946.
 
2013-11-27 08:12:40 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Marcus Aurelius: The rest are so silly as to not even merit derision.

Oh, I don't know, I think Market Garden was a pretty major fark-up and certainly worthy of being called so.


Indeed, it was, A Bridge Too Far is a great read and there is one point that is mentioned in it, a theoretical assault on Arnham from Nijemegan was on the test for Belgium tank officer candidates before the war. They would have been failed if they suggested going up the roadd the Brits tried too. Major fark-up most defiantly.
 
2013-11-27 08:13:43 PM

Forsythe P. Jones: Stop...I want to play Axis and Allies now....


I'm in.

O/
 
2013-11-27 08:16:55 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: dittybopper: 4. Underestimating the Japanese

Worst mistake of the Japanese:  Underestimating the resolve of the US.  They thought we'd fold after 6 months or a year of getting our asses kicked.

They mistook our diversity for a weakness instead of a strength.

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

~Rand Paul


Rand Paul should stick to stealing real quotes; Mr. 56 never actually said that.
 
2013-11-27 08:18:05 PM

Marcus Aurelius: 3. America's Failure to Immediately Adopt the Convoy System

Supplying England was a free market endeavo(u)r.  If you want to risk your ass hauling freight to the UK, why should the US Navy put our boys on the line for your sorry ass profits?  War profiteering was frowed on where I came from.


Didn't stop Prescott Bush.

Yes, that Bush family.
 
2013-11-27 08:19:40 PM
My grandfather served under Patton. He would only call him "That Goddamn Son of a biatch" and wouldn't talk about him without throwing something. Absolutely hated him.
 
2013-11-27 08:19:46 PM
Wish I could figure out the song that's in the first video. The comments are tame, even for Youtube, but nonhelpful as always.


Grandpa was in the 10th Mountain in Italy. Glad I got to talk to him about it when I was a wide-eyed kid, and go snow skiing, and such.  He was pretty badass.   I miss the old bastard.
 
2013-11-27 08:20:20 PM
Biggest mistake we made in WWII was not continuing into Africa and taking control of the continent, just like China is doing now.
Or maybe we should've bombed China after we bombed Japan? Even better, we should've bombed every square mile of the earth that isn't the USA.
 
2013-11-27 08:22:37 PM

violentsalvation: and their tanks and tactics could not match the German's


Kind of a myth. German tanks at the time weren't the uber Tigers and Panthers of the later war.
 
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