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(Talking Points Memo)   Pick your spin: 58% of Americans oppose Obamacare. 54% either approve or think it needs to go further   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 232
    More: Interesting, obamacare, Americans, ORC International  
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1240 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Nov 2013 at 4:11 PM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-27 09:40:22 PM

Mugato: McCain would be dead now anyway and Palin would be President and we'd all be speaking Klingon by now.


While this GIS was a little disappointing, it was certainly interesting.
 
2013-11-27 09:53:01 PM

GeneralJim: Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, '40 to 67 percent' of customers will not be able to keep their policy.


In otherwords, nothing to do with the ACA.
 
2013-11-27 09:53:38 PM

Mrtraveler01:

So you think that BCBS of Michigan is going to compete with it's sister company BCBS of Massachusetts?

Do you really think that these won't all eventually consolidate in one state resulting in even LESS competition?

People who drone on with that talking point don't understand the complexity behind it.
I'm just going to let your demonstration of your ignorance stand on its own.  I rest my case.
 
2013-11-27 09:54:55 PM

GeneralJim: "Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, '40 to 67 percent' of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, 'the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.' "


You know that refers to just individual policies only and not the total number of insured right?

Key fact you left out.
 
2013-11-27 09:55:57 PM
It will be interesting to see some numbers come next spring or summer. You know, after the sky hasn't fallen.
 
2013-11-27 09:58:36 PM
Forty-one percent said they oppose the law because it's too liberal, while 14 percent said it isn't liberal enough. As CNN noted, this means that 54 percent either support the Affordable Care Act or believe it isn't liberal enough.

OhSnap.gif
 
2013-11-27 09:59:04 PM
This has been almost as much fun as watching a breakdown in the conspiracy section of that Other Website.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-11-27 10:00:05 PM

GeneralJim: Mrtraveler01: So you think that BCBS of Michigan is going to compete with it's sister company BCBS of Massachusetts?

Do you really think that these won't all eventually consolidate in one state resulting in even LESS competition?

People who drone on with that talking point don't understand the complexity behind it.I'm just going to let your demonstration of your ignorance stand on its own.  I rest my case.


So how does having insurance companies consolidate in one location create more competition?

Go on, humor me. Tell me how I'm ignorant in pointing out that the best case scenario is choosing between BCBS in State A vs. BCBS in State B? Tell me how much different the two options would be. Tell me how the worst case scenario to your plan results in only one Blue Cross Blue Shield and how that somehow creates competition.

Go on, humor me with your flawed plan.
 
2013-11-27 10:03:05 PM
Why are people posting in green? What did I miss?
 
2013-11-27 10:05:22 PM

Mugato: Why are people posting in green? What did I miss?


It's not easy beingposting in green.

/actually, it is quite easy
//posting in, that is, not being
///threes!
 
2013-11-27 10:08:37 PM
Oblamocare raped my cat and saw me masturbating after gym class. Thanks Obama.
 
2013-11-27 10:11:31 PM

HooskerDoo: Oblamocare raped my cat and saw me masturbating after gym class. Thanks Obama.


That cat was begging for it.
 
2013-11-27 10:13:21 PM

Mugato: HooskerDoo: Oblamocare raped my cat and saw me masturbating after gym class. Thanks Obama.

That cat was begging for it.


What's the excuse for masturbating after gym class (presumable after showering with all the other boys)?
 
2013-11-27 10:14:34 PM

theknuckler_33: What's the excuse for masturbating after gym class (presumable after showering with all the other boys)?


You're shooting Top Gun 2?
 
2013-11-27 10:20:22 PM

imageshack.us

Like spring in Kyoto

The green shoots pepper the field

Except here, they're derp

 
2013-11-27 10:21:10 PM

grumpfuff:

GeneralJim: Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, '40 to 67 percent' of customers will not be able to keep their policy.

In otherwords, nothing to do with the ACA.
Ooh, wrong again -- because, before Obamacare two thirds of people were cancelled each year...  At least you're consistent.
 
2013-11-27 10:22:37 PM

sillydragon: This has been almost as much fun as watching a breakdown in the conspiracy section of that Other Website.


[i.imgur.com image 320x240]


There's another website? Wow.
 
2013-11-27 10:22:42 PM

theknuckler_33: Mugato: HooskerDoo: Oblamocare raped my cat and saw me masturbating after gym class. Thanks Obama.

That cat was begging for it.

What's the excuse for masturbating after gym class (presumable after showering with all the other boys)?


I fell down and my penis got hard, Okay Mister judgmental pants?
 
2013-11-27 10:25:49 PM

Mrtraveler01:

GeneralJim: "Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, '40 to 67 percent' of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, 'the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.' "

You know that refers to just individual policies only and not the total number of insured right?

Key fact you left out.
Yeah, the cancellations for employer insurance go out NEXT year, which is good...  People will remember them come the election. Key fact YOU left out. Also, are you dumb enough to believe that there are 93 million individual market policies in the U.S.?
 
2013-11-27 10:25:50 PM

HooskerDoo: Okay Mister judgmental pants?


Mmmmm... Judgemental pants.

imageshack.us

I came.
 
2013-11-27 10:26:05 PM

GeneralJim: grumpfuff: GeneralJim: Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, '40 to 67 percent' of customers will not be able to keep their policy.

In otherwords, nothing to do with the ACA.Ooh, wrong again -- because, before Obamacare two thirds of people were cancelled each year...  At least you're consistent.



So before ACA - 66%
After ACA(as you claimed up thread)- 50%


BAD ACA! BAD BAD BAD BAD!

/sure you'll respond to this with nothing but facts, and no ad hominems
 
2013-11-27 10:29:06 PM

GeneralJim: Mrtraveler01: GeneralJim: "Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, '40 to 67 percent' of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, 'the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.' "

You know that refers to just individual policies only and not the total number of insured right?

Key fact you left out.Yeah, the cancellations for employer insurance go out NEXT year, which is good...  People will remember them come the election. Key fact YOU left out. Also, are you dumb enough to believe that there are 93 million individual market policies in the U.S.?


So you can't read and missed the part in the article that mentions that they're referring to only individual policies in those figures?

Wow, and you think we're the dumb ones?
 
2013-11-27 10:33:53 PM

BullBearMS: Mrtraveler01: BullBearMS: Mrtraveler01: He does raise a point though. How come you never hold Republicans to the same high standard that you hold Obama?

When did the Republicans say they were going to end the wars, restore civil liberties, restore the rule of law, prosecute the banks, keep lobbyists from running the government, etc, etc, etc???

[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 640x469]

Let me ask you this, is there anything that the Democrats have done right? Is there anything the Republicans have done wrong?

[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 160x120]

This Obama shill mentality where you can't criticize him when he farks up is a never ending source of stupidity.

Attacking Obama for refusing to prosecute the banks, for example, is entirely a good thing.

Shame them into taking action.


Yes, it is, but we are not talking about that right now. You are just making up shiat about the ACA and we are calling you out.
 
2013-11-27 10:37:34 PM

GeneralJim: Zeppelininthesky: Those same Republicans who tried to repeal the law 30+ times, threw lawsuit after lawsuit at the law trying to declare it unconstitutional, let states not expand Medicaid and set up proper state exchanges, took away spending that would have been used for the healthcare.gov website, and spread so many outright lies about the ACA that it is really tough to figure out what is real and what is made up bullshiat. Yeah, I am blaming Republicans directly for trying to make the law as bad as possible. The responsible thing to do would be to try to fix the law and not make it worse.See?   Trying to blame the Republicans for Obamacare is a better plan -- not a GOOD plan, but you have to work with what you have.  Are you saying that all of the desperate Republican efforts to spare the American people from the horrors of Obamacare won't be remembered?  You could well be right.


No. People will not remember the Republicans because the ACA will be popular and actually work and anyone who was against it will be far away from any public office.
 
2013-11-27 10:40:02 PM

Zeppelininthesky: Yes, it is, but we are not talking about that right now. You are just making up shiat about the ACA and we are calling you out.


Yeah, tell that to my cat, pal.
 
2013-11-27 10:41:19 PM

Mrtraveler01:

So how does having insurance companies consolidate in one location create more competition?

Go on, humor me. Tell me how I'm ignorant in pointing out that the best case scenario is choosing between BCBS in State A vs. BCBS in State B? Tell me how much different the two options would be. Tell me how the worst case scenario to your plan results in only one Blue Cross Blue Shield and how that somehow creates competition.

Go on, humor me with your flawed plan.
No, seriously, are you really this ignorant?  With 50 state access, do you think there will be a separate BCBS State A and a BCBS State B?   They will be the same, and will need less admin thereby.   Also,  little insurance companies that could not afford to set up a separate company for each state, can offer their products in 50 states.  More companies competing in each state.

So, you think it's a good thing that people keep jobs they don't like, when they could do better, because their health insurance is tied to their job?

 
2013-11-27 10:43:19 PM

GeneralJim: grumpfuff: GeneralJim: Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, '40 to 67 percent' of customers will not be able to keep their policy.

In otherwords, nothing to do with the ACA.Ooh, wrong again -- because, before Obamacare two thirds of people were cancelled each year...  At least you're consistent.


About that....

PART 2-OTHER PROVISIONS
SEC. 1251 ø42 U.S.C. 18011¿. PRESERVATION OF RIGHT TO MAINTAIN
EXISTING COVERAGE.
(a) NO CHANGES TO EXISTING COVERAGE.-
(1) IN GENERAL.-Nothing in this Act (or an amendment
made by this Act) shall be construed to require that an individual
terminate coverage under a group health plan or health
insurance coverage in which such individual was enrolled on
the date of enactment of this Act.
(2) CONTINUATION OF COVERAGE.-øAs revised by section
10103(d)(1)¿ Except as provided in paragraph (3), with respect
to a group health plan or health insurance coverage in which
an individual was enrolled on the date of enactment of this
Act, this subtitle and subtitle A (and the amendments made by
such subtitles) shall not apply to such plan or coverage, regardless
of whether the individual renews such coverage after such
date of enactment.
(3) APPLICATION OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS.-øAs added by
section 10103(d)(1)¿ The provisions of sections 2715 and 2718
of the Public Health Service Act (as added by subtitle A) shall
apply to grandfathered health plans for plan years beginning
on or after the date of enactment of this Act.
(4) APPLICATION OF CERTAIN PROVISIONS.-øAs added by
section 2301(a) of HCERA¿

It is as if the ACA says that they could keep their plans, but the insurance companies cancelled them.
 
2013-11-27 10:43:33 PM

GeneralJim: No, seriously, are you really this ignorant?  With 50 state access, do you think there will be a separate BCBS State A and a BCBS State B?


No of course not.

GeneralJim: They will be the same, and will need less admin thereby.


So I was right when I said that it would result in one BCBS.

GeneralJim: Also,  little insurance companies that could not afford to set up a separate company for each state, can offer their products in 50 states.  More companies competing in each state.


How many health insurance companies do you think actually exist?

GeneralJim: So, you think it's a good thing that people keep jobs they don't like, when they could do better, because their health insurance is tied to their job?


No, where do you get that idea?
 
2013-11-27 10:45:43 PM

GeneralJim: Mrtraveler01: So how does having insurance companies consolidate in one location create more competition?

Go on, humor me. Tell me how I'm ignorant in pointing out that the best case scenario is choosing between BCBS in State A vs. BCBS in State B? Tell me how much different the two options would be. Tell me how the worst case scenario to your plan results in only one Blue Cross Blue Shield and how that somehow creates competition.

Go on, humor me with your flawed plan.No, seriously, are you really this ignorant?  With 50 state access, do you think there will be a separate BCBS State A and a BCBS State B?   They will be the same, and will need less admin thereby.   Also,  little insurance companies that could not afford to set up a separate company for each state, can offer their products in 50 states.  More companies competing in each state.
So, you think it's a good thing that people keep jobs they don't like, when they could do better, because their health insurance is tied to their job?


That is not how insurance works.
 
2013-11-27 10:49:54 PM

Mrtraveler01: How many health insurance companies do you think actually exist?


imageshack.us
 
2013-11-27 11:00:46 PM

Mrtraveler01:

So once again, if you didn't want to talk about his friend's story, why did you decide to quote his story then?
Done with this crap; fark off.
 
2013-11-27 11:28:17 PM

grumpfuff:

GeneralJim: grumpfuff: GeneralJim: Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, '40 to 67 percent' of customers will not be able to keep their policy.

In otherwords, nothing to do with the ACA.

Ooh, wrong again -- because, before Obamacare two thirds of people were cancelled each year...  At least you're consistent.


So before ACA - 66%
After ACA(as you claimed up thread)- 50%


BAD ACA! BAD BAD BAD BAD!

/sure you'll respond to this with nothing but facts, and no ad hominems
So, you missed the sarcasm, and actually believe that before Obamacare it was normal for 2/3 of people to lose their health coverage each year. I assumed ANY idiot would know that 2/3 of people did NOT lose their health insurance each year. My bad. I apologize for lumping you in with the other idiots, when you're obviously so SPECIAL.

Typical liberal trick -- say something OUTRAGEOUSLY stupid, and then challenge responders not to comment.   No, your numbers are wrong.  The "66% before" means that 66% of policies would NORMALLY violate the conditions Obamacare set for grandfathering.   That means they KNEW that 2/3 of people would have policies that do not grandfather in.  Which means that Obama KNEW he was lying when he said, dozens of times, that if you like your current policy you can keep it.  He KNEW most everyone could NOT keep their policy.

This shiat is WAY too obvious to be acting stupid about it -- assuming you're acting.  The lying assholes in the Obama administration KNEW that most people would lose the policies they had...  That's how this WORKS -- you have to rape the healthy people, who have no problems getting insurance, to pay for the sickies and old people.  The economics are those of immediate collapse without that.  To be fair, the economics are those of collapse anyway, but over a much longer time -- a couple years, at least, and another trillion or two of national debt...

/... and, of course, you STILL don't understand "ad hominem."

 
2013-11-27 11:30:48 PM

GeneralJim: /... and, of course, you STILL don't understand "ad hominem."


Explain it then. Make sure to include how this

GeneralJim: Typical liberal trick -- say something OUTRAGEOUSLY stupid, and then challenge responders not to comment.


and this

GeneralJim: This shiat is WAY too obvious to be acting stupid about it -- assuming you're acting.


and this

GeneralJim: The lying assholes in the Obama administration



are not ad hominems.
 
2013-11-27 11:35:08 PM
How the hell does 14% equal 54%????
 
2013-11-27 11:35:15 PM

GeneralJim: grumpfuff: GeneralJim: grumpfuff: GeneralJim: Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, '40 to 67 percent' of customers will not be able to keep their policy.

In otherwords, nothing to do with the ACA.

Ooh, wrong again -- because, before Obamacare two thirds of people were cancelled each year...  At least you're consistent.


So before ACA - 66%
After ACA(as you claimed up thread)- 50%


BAD ACA! BAD BAD BAD BAD!

/sure you'll respond to this with nothing but facts, and no ad hominemsSo, you missed the sarcasm, and actually believe that before Obamacare it was normal for 2/3 of people to lose their health coverage each year. I assumed ANY idiot would know that 2/3 of people did NOT lose their health insurance each year. My bad. I apologize for lumping you in with the other idiots, when you're obviously so SPECIAL.

Typical liberal trick -- say something OUTRAGEOUSLY stupid, and then challenge responders not to comment.   No, your numbers are wrong.  The "66% before" means that 66% of policies would NORMALLY violate the conditions Obamacare set for grandfathering.   That means they KNEW that 2/3 of people would have policies that do not grandfather in.  Which means that Obama KNEW he was lying when he said, dozens of times, that if you like your current policy you can keep it.  He KNEW most everyone could NOT keep their policy.
This shiat is WAY too obvious to be acting stupid about it -- assuming you're acting.  The lying assholes in the Obama administration KNEW that most people would lose the policies they had...  That's how this WORKS -- you have to rape the healthy people, who have no problems getting insurance, to pay for the sickies and old people.  The economics are those of immediate collapse without that.  To be fair, the economics are those of collapse anyway, but over a much longer time -- a couple years, at least, and another trillion or two of national debt...

...


Sources for your numbers?
 
2013-11-27 11:35:18 PM

GeneralJim: So, you missed the sarcasm, and actually believe that before Obamacare it was normal for 2/3 of people to lose their health coverage each year. I assumed ANY idiot would know that 2/3 of people did NOT lose their health insurance each year. My bad. I apologize for lumping you in with the other idiots, when you're obviously so SPECIAL.

Typical liberal trick -- say something OUTRAGEOUSLY stupid, and then challenge responders not to comment.   No, your numbers are wrong.  The "66% before" means that 66% of policies would NORMALLY violate the conditions Obamacare set for grandfathering.   That means they KNEW that 2/3 of people would have policies that do not grandfather in.  Which means that Obama KNEW he was lying when he said, dozens of times, that if you like your current policy you can keep it.  He KNEW most everyone could NOT keep their policy.


How come you keep confusing individual insurance plans with total insurance plans in those figures?
 
2013-11-27 11:37:16 PM

Flappyhead: Brostorm: This thread is hilarious.  You guys really wan't to believe anyone opposed to this law are ignorant rednecks that don't know whats good for them.  Of course you know whats good for them, of course you do.

You're not exactly helping you're case out here.

Unless that's deliberate, in which case good job.


Rule #1 of pointing out grammatical errors in other people's posts is...?
 
2013-11-27 11:44:32 PM
Someone is going crazy deleting posts.
 
2013-11-27 11:46:09 PM

Zeppelininthesky: Someone is going crazy deleting posts.


'Tis the season.
 
2013-11-27 11:47:46 PM

Mrtraveler01: Zeppelininthesky: Someone is going crazy deleting posts.

'Tis the season.


Never mind, a troll got plunked.
 
2013-11-27 11:48:23 PM

Mrtraveler01: Zeppelininthesky: Someone is going crazy deleting posts.

'Tis the season.


I like how my comment that didn't reference any comment got deleted for referencing a deleted comment.
 
2013-11-27 11:48:26 PM

Zeppelininthesky: Someone is going crazy deleting posts.


What the h
 
2013-11-28 12:00:10 AM

HooskerDoo: Zeppelininthesky: Someone is going crazy deleting posts.

What the h


CARRIER LOST
 
m00
2013-11-28 12:15:43 AM

Rhino_man: No, we understand that people who oppose the law but support all its parts are completely ignorant of what's in it, they just hate it because OBAMA SCARY AND FREEDOMS AND FURTHERMORE AND SUCH AS RUSSIA WHICH I CAN SEE FROM MY HOUSE.


I'm actually conflicted. I like the pre-existing condition thing. Lord knows insurance companies do everything in their power to screw people. "Oh, you had acne treatment 40 years ago and now you want chemo for your all-over cancer? Sorry, you failed to report that pre-existing condition... coverage dropped."

I hate the fact it forces people to pay a private entity for service. The public option would have addressed this concern of mine, but that was dropped. Absent a public option, the ACA is a payout to corporations. It's corporate welfare.

So I get the feeling it's kind of a worst-of-both worlds. I would have much preferred socialized medicine, which is the proper Libertarian position ;)
 
2013-11-28 12:52:55 AM

Mugato: Why are people posting in green? What did I miss?


Obvious trolling.
 
2013-11-28 01:04:28 AM

Dimensio: Obamacare is a complete disaster, as was predicted. If politicians are truly serious about improving access to healthcare, then they will implement a system similar to the one implemented in Kentucky. https://kyenroll.ky.gov/  kynect has proven to be an effective means to bring affordable healthcare to all Kentuckians.


Bears repeating. This is one of my favorite posts ever. Deliberate or not.
 
2013-11-28 01:06:52 AM

m00: I hate the fact it forces people to pay a private entity for service. The public option would have addressed this concern of mine, but that was dropped. Absent a public option, the ACA is a payout to corporations.


Funny. All the Fark IndependentsTM I have favorited in Orange have been lamenting "If Only Obamacare had a public option we would have supported it" for the past few weeks.

Uh...that was what the liberals wanted back in 2009, man. And all the tea party conservatives ever so concerned about size of government shot the idea down because socialism.

You're farking shameless.
 
2013-11-28 01:08:02 AM

GeneralJim: So, you missed the sarcasm, and actually believe that before Obamacare it was normal for 2/3 of people to lose their health coverage each year. I assumed ANY idiot would know that 2/3 of people did NOT lose their health insurance each year. My bad. I apologize for lumping you in with the other idiots, when you're obviously so SPECIAL.


So are you saying that the plan cancellations (with options for modified plans) this year blamed on ACA are functionally different than the plan cancellations (with options for modified plans) offered every year? Could you explain exactly how these ones are different? How is getting a letter this year that says "Based on the ACA, we will not renew your old plan. This is the closest plan we now offer, and you can shop for more" effectively different than getting a letter almost every year that says "Your plan has been modified. Your open enrollment period begins, otherwise you will be shunted into this modified plan?"
 
2013-11-28 01:11:07 AM

m00: I would have much preferred socialized medicine, which is the proper Libertarian position ;)


Actually the "proper Libertarian position" is to pretend the private sector can effectively provide social services to people.
 
2013-11-28 01:30:47 AM

CorporatePerson: m00: I hate the fact it forces people to pay a private entity for service. The public option would have addressed this concern of mine, but that was dropped. Absent a public option, the ACA is a payout to corporations.

Funny. All the Fark IndependentsTM I have favorited in Orange have been lamenting "If Only Obamacare had a public option we would have supported it" for the past few weeks.

Uh...that was what the liberals wanted back in 2009, man. And all the tea party conservatives ever so concerned about size of government shot the idea down because socialism.

You're farking shameless.


Deliberately sabotaging our healthcare laws has been the only contribution from the right on this matter. The public option had no coherent argument against it. There was only:
 1) because socialism. - disregarding that socialism is part of every great thing we have ever done as a nation.
 2) we'll never vote for it. - idle threat, the GOP had decided not to vote for anything already.
 3) insurance companies could never compete with the government. - um, which side are they arguing for? Single payer?
 
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