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(Talking Points Memo)   Pick your spin: 58% of Americans oppose Obamacare. 54% either approve or think it needs to go further   (talkingpointsmemo.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, obamacare, Americans, ORC International  
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1265 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Nov 2013 at 4:11 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-27 05:04:35 PM  

technicolor-misfit: Not quite "redneck," but definitely "country." And not a "moran" at all but definitely and self-admittedly ignorant on this issue.

In fact, I finally just print-screened her plan options from healthcare.gov and emailed them to her... and while she initially balked and tried to wave it off, I think she's starting to come around. She messaged me a few days later to ask me some more questions and to inquire about how the subsidies work.


Damn...  if more shiat like this happens the GOP isn't going to have a chance next year.  I realize that the authoritarian follower's brain will be able to compartmentalize "ACA = Good for me" but it's sure to make a few borderline authoritarian followers have a good long double think about their belief system and perhaps even come to the conclusion that they're on the wrong side of reality.
 
2013-11-27 05:08:08 PM  
So, 46% oppose it because it goes too far, 42% approve of it and 12% oppose it because it doesn't go far enough.  Totalling 100%.

There is no contradiction here.
 
2013-11-27 05:10:46 PM  

Cletus C.: I'm with the 53 percent who say it's too soon to say if it's a success or a failure.

Both sides are wrong.

Majority rules!


If the majority rules, how did Republicans get so much minority power when they were completely outvoted in 2012?
 
2013-11-27 05:10:49 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: So, 46% oppose it because it goes too far, 42% approve of it and 12% oppose it because it doesn't go far enough.  Totalling 100%.

There is no contradiction here.


You would make a shiatty GOP spokesman.  Fox News wouldn't even let you through the door with that attitude.
 
2013-11-27 05:13:03 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Animatronik: This law is a disaster. A friends company just announ that they will no longer offer coverage to spouses because Obamacare.

What part of Obamacare prohibits this?


Absolutely none... but the vogue thing to do is to do something totally dickish to your employees, then tag it with the finish "because Obamacare."
 
2013-11-27 05:13:55 PM  

Brostorm: This thread is hilarious.  You guys really wan't to believe anyone opposed to this law are ignorant rednecks that don't know whats good for them.  Of course you know whats good for them, of course you do.


You're not exactly helping you're case out here.

Unless that's deliberate, in which case good job.
 
2013-11-27 05:15:10 PM  

Triple Oak: Cletus C.: I'm with the 53 percent who say it's too soon to say if it's a success or a failure.

Both sides are wrong.

Majority rules!

If the majority rules, how did Republicans get so much minority power when they were completely outvoted in 2012?


Do I really need to explain to you how electing Congresspeople works? You know, districts, voters and stuff like that?
 
2013-11-27 05:22:00 PM  

Headso: meh another obamacare thread, i'm going to use this post to tell you all I just ate 5 chocolate chip gluten free cannabis cookies, u jelly?


It's been about an hour since you posted this. U jelly?
 
2013-11-27 05:24:52 PM  

Headso: meh another obamacare thread, i'm going to use this post to tell you all I just ate 5 chocolate chip gluten free cannabis cookies, u jelly?


Jealous of glutin free crap? No.
 
2013-11-27 05:27:58 PM  

fatassbastard: Mrtraveler01: What part of Obamacare prohibits this?

My guess is that, where in the past health ins. co.'s would just raise rates (and sometimes companies would then cancel benefits) now they just blame everything on Obamacare, whether the ACA actually had anything to do with it or not.


It really has been the greatest gift the insurance companies ever had (because now they have a convenient scapegoat they can use for their dickery).

My company's plan still allows me to cover spouses and children so I don't think Obamacare had anything to do with that.
 
2013-11-27 05:27:59 PM  

Brostorm: This thread is hilarious.  You guys really wan't to believe anyone opposed to this law are ignorant rednecks that don't know whats good for them.  Of course you know whats good for them, of course you do.


 I don't think *anyone* opposed to this law is an "ignorant redneck." But the sheer torrent of misinformation regarding ACA has given rise to a very large number of people who believe that it's "socialism," or worse. Take a look at your typical right-wing outlet (Fox being the most influential) and judge for yourself the veracity of their content, especially in relation to Obamacare. If you're one of the people who recite that bullsh*t on forums or at the water cooler, yeah, you're ignorant. It doesn't mean that I "know what's good for you." But it does mean I can call you a low-information voter who would likely cut off his nose to spite his face.
 
2013-11-27 05:32:42 PM  

GeneralJim: Farkin_Crazy: I don't think there is near the disdain for the ACA that the conservatives would have you believe there is.
And, once people actually start using it, it will become more palatable and political suicide for the right to continue to attempt to repeal it.Nice Fark handle.


Hello my name is Mr. GreenText.
 
2013-11-27 05:32:53 PM  

technicolor-misfit: And a solid 30-40% of those who absolutely hate it, believe it's insurance created by the government and given to poor people for free. Period.

I have a cousin who refuses to shop for her Blue Cross insurance on the federal exchange, in spite of the fact that it's like 20-30% cheaper (before subsidies) than the comparable Blue Cross insurance that BC/BS is trying to push on her directly.

There are none so farked in the ass without lube than those who will not see.


Don't forget the 25% of the population that thinks that if you have an "Obamacare" plan then you have to use only special Obamacare Clinics and Obamacare Doctors, and you can be Death Paneled if it's too expensive to treat you.

Yes, I have seen the people who refuse, adamantly, to buy insurance on the exchanges because that would be surrendering to socialism, or something.

At work, I saw someone without insurance complaining about Obamacare.  She is a temp, no health insurance provided from her job, and was griping about "Obamacare" being so evil that it was making people who can't afford insurance buy it anyway.  We talked, I asked some questions about insurance and finances, and I did some math.  She was clearly eligible for Medicaid under the ACA expansion.  I told her that she could now get Medicaid through the ACA and not have to pay anything.  Her response?  To be offended at the idea of getting Medicaid, saying that she's not poor and she'd be damned before she accepted "socialized medicine" because "I'm no moocher, I earn what I get".  Never mind she can't afford insurance, she won't take it if it's given to her for free either.
 
2013-11-27 05:34:26 PM  

Smackledorfer: Headso: meh another obamacare thread, i'm going to use this post to tell you all I just ate 5 chocolate chip gluten free cannabis cookies, u jelly?

Jealous of glutin free crap? No.


I don't understand the whole Gulden Free movement. It's just mustard. But I guess Obama got in trouble for that, too, so never mind.
 
2013-11-27 05:35:10 PM  

whidbey: Smackledorfer: Headso: meh another obamacare thread, i'm going to use this post to tell you all I just ate 5 chocolate chip gluten free cannabis cookies, u jelly?

Jealous of glutin free crap? No.

I don't understand the whole Gulden Free movement. It's just mustard. But I guess Obama got in trouble for that, too, so never mind.


It's actually the Snowden Free movement.
 
2013-11-27 05:38:32 PM  
Ah the ethereal 12%, always splitting on every issue.
 
2013-11-27 05:38:42 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: whidbey: Smackledorfer: Headso: meh another obamacare thread, i'm going to use this post to tell you all I just ate 5 chocolate chip gluten free cannabis cookies, u jelly?

Jealous of glutin free crap? No.

I don't understand the whole Gulden Free movement. It's just mustard. But I guess Obama got in trouble for that, too, so never mind.

It's actually the Snowden Free movement.


Well granted, that does make you constipated for several days.
 
2013-11-27 05:39:58 PM  

Silverstaff: technicolor-misfit: And a solid 30-40% of those who absolutely hate it, believe it's insurance created by the government and given to poor people for free. Period.

I have a cousin who refuses to shop for her Blue Cross insurance on the federal exchange, in spite of the fact that it's like 20-30% cheaper (before subsidies) than the comparable Blue Cross insurance that BC/BS is trying to push on her directly.

There are none so farked in the ass without lube than those who will not see.

Don't forget the 25% of the population that thinks that if you have an "Obamacare" plan then you have to use only special Obamacare Clinics and Obamacare Doctors, and you can be Death Paneled if it's too expensive to treat you.

Yes, I have seen the people who refuse, adamantly, to buy insurance on the exchanges because that would be surrendering to socialism, or something.

At work, I saw someone without insurance complaining about Obamacare.  She is a temp, no health insurance provided from her job, and was griping about "Obamacare" being so evil that it was making people who can't afford insurance buy it anyway.  We talked, I asked some questions about insurance and finances, and I did some math.  She was clearly eligible for Medicaid under the ACA expansion.  I told her that she could now get Medicaid through the ACA and not have to pay anything.  Her response?  To be offended at the idea of getting Medicaid, saying that she's not poor and she'd be damned before she accepted "socialized medicine" because "I'm no moocher, I earn what I get".  Never mind she can't afford insurance, she won't take it if it's given to her for free either.


Foolish pride comes to mind here.
 
2013-11-27 05:54:31 PM  

Jaguar Paw:

Should be "She has cancer and treatments can be $98K apiece but she listens to Limbaugh and Levin on the radio and thinks she is better off with out insurance."
Not really.  "Without" is one word.
 
2013-11-27 05:56:13 PM  
hurr
 
2013-11-27 05:58:06 PM  
Obamacare is a complete disaster, as was predicted. If politicians are truly serious about improving access to healthcare, then they will implement a system similar to the one implemented in Kentucky. kynect has proven to be an effective means to bring affordable healthcare to all Kentuckians.
 
2013-11-27 06:11:12 PM  
You know how everyone dreads that one obnoxious relative at Thanksgiving who'll have a couple of drinks and start blathering about the complete disaster of Obamacare?

Well, I truly have something to be thankful for. There'll be 14 of us there tomorrow, and that isn't going to happen. They're all sensible, nice people. It's heartwarming, I tell ya!
 
2013-11-27 06:13:34 PM  

Dimensio: Obamacare is a complete disaster, as was predicted. If politicians are truly serious about improving access to healthcare, then they will implement a system similar to the one implemented in Kentucky. kynect has proven to be an effective means to bring affordable healthcare to all Kentuckians.


. . .not sure if serious.

/Poe's Law detector trying to figure that one out.
 
2013-11-27 06:23:00 PM  
No contradiction in the numbers, because about half of the people that are not happy with the ACA want it to go further. The GOP counts this group as against the ACA. About 25% are flat out against Obamacare, but are in favor of the majority of the provisions. That group will be screaming "Keep your government hands off my ACA", in a year or two."
 
2013-11-27 06:31:39 PM  

Mikey1969: Jesus, it's a polling version of a Choose Your Own Adventure story...


Joke is on all you libtards. I have my finger on the page of the last choice. I can always do backsies and pick the right choice after 10 minutes.
 
2013-11-27 06:45:35 PM  

technicolor-misfit: And a solid 30-40% of those who absolutely hate it, believe it's insurance created by the government and given to poor people for free. Period.

I have a cousin who refuses to shop for her Blue Cross insurance on the federal exchange, in spite of the fact that it's like 20-30% cheaper (before subsidies) than the comparable Blue Cross insurance that BC/BS is trying to push on her directly.

There are none so farked in the ass without lube than those who will not see.


They also tend to be the same people who believe in religion.
 
2013-11-27 06:51:13 PM  

LasersHurt: I think a lot of people are ignorant as to what, exactly, it entails. We've got a media which does not inform, and a populous that conflates freedom and ignorance. I am not surprised in the least.



Lets not forget : we had to pass it to find out what is in it..    What it is, is an avenue to single payer.. also a continuation of redistribution of wealth.. to work, the milleniums have to join.. which they won't..  financially unfeasible to do so.... it's designed to fail... Obama,s flagship achievement is actually the single payer system, which he can't announce until ACA crashes and burns..  and by that time, they have most everyone,s information in their system, including bank info.... y'all are so screwed...
 
2013-11-27 06:55:47 PM  

Animatronik:

Farkin_Crazy: I don't think there is near the disdain for the ACA that the conservatives would have you believe there is.
And, once people actually start using it, it will become more palatable and political suicide for the right to continue to attempt to repeal it.

Hahahahaha..uhhahahahaha.
Keep trying

This law is a disaster. A friends company just announ that they will no longer offer coverage to spouses because Obamacare. His wife is panicking. Thanks to the mismanagement by the govt, the middle class is getting screwed.

I am fortunate to have good insurance.The problem with Obamacare is that its a clusterfark.
Its really that simple.
Yes, it is that simple.  I REALLY find it hard to believe that even Fark leftists are supporting this turd of legislation, written by insurance company lobbyists.  Trying to shift blame onto the ZERO Republicans who voted for it, I would understand.  Blaming those who wrote it, saying they tricked the poor Democrats, I would understand.   But trying to find the "good points" about being rammed up the arse with a red-hot poker?  Seriously?

Some facts -- Over half of the people insured at the end of 2012 will lose their policies, due to Obamacare, before the 2014 elections.  I would note that people with insurance were 85% pleased with the insurance they had.  "Replacement policies" will, in the vast majority of cases, cost significantly more, AND have significantly higher deductibles, and this is not something that "talking points" will fix; the vast majority will be taking a MAJOR hit in insurance, either by increased premiums, or by losing coverage altogether.  Many people are also losing their jobs -- at least full-time jobs -- so employers can avoid the nastiness that is Obamacare.

Even Democrats are bailing on this immense cluster-fark -- they know that you can't pick up a turd by the "clean end," and that if they are associated with Obamacare in the elections, they're friggin' toast.  As always, 100% of the seats in the House of Representatives are up for election.  In the 2014 election, as it stands now, of the Senate seats up for election in 2014, currently, there are 21 held by Democrats and 14 held by Republicans.  If Senate elections go 50/50, the Republicans take the Senate.  And with the new Senate rules, if the Republicans take the Senate, Democrats are screwed.  So, the immense scrambling for Democratic congresscritters to distance themselves from the President is only just beginning.   The Demorats are deserting the sinking shiat.

And amid the dawning horror amongst Democrats that they have voted for and supported legislation that is going to scare the dog shiat out of the majority of Americans, in a place where fear reigns, partly because of Democratic propaganda over the years, about the horrors of being uninsured, or at LEAST the horror of having to come up with much more money for health insurance, AND face larger deductibles...  amidst that scramble AWAY from Obamacare, or the ACA as Democrats now like to call it, we have the Fark libs, not making excuses for this cluster-fark, but extolling its virtues. Oh, yes, hooray that gay couples will now be covered for maternity care, and that Granny can get free condoms and dental dams for those big block parties.

Paid Internet trolls are funded, from all appearances and evidence, ENTIRELY by the government.  The fact that "Fark Socialists" are all backing Obamacare all the way, when even Democrats are dissing it, is the best possible evidence that all the bullshiat derp being put out by those Fark socialists is paid for by the Obama administration.  Right about now, the ONLY people supporting Obamacare are those being paid to do so.  So, it looks like y'all have outed yourselves.

 
2013-11-27 06:58:10 PM  

ikanreed: 4 posts, all of which say "people are morons who don't know anything".

They are, and they don't, but it's still "elitist"


What's wrong with being elitist?
 
2013-11-27 06:59:19 PM  

Silverstaff: I told her that she could now get Medicaid through the ACA and not have to pay anything.  Her response?  To be offended at the idea of getting Medicaid, saying that she's not poor and she'd be damned before she accepted "socialized medicine" because "I'm no moocher, I earn what I get".  Never mind she can't afford insurance, she won't take it if it's given to her for free either.


It's not free, it's paid for by the government, which receives revenue via taxes which comes from people working. In short, if you're too poor to afford insurance, the government is willing to step in and help you out. Think of it as the government investing in you. Not necessarily investing in you for future profit, since that may not be the case, but investing in you as a person to help you stay happy and healthy, which also avoids costs of emergency room visits, diseases, or deaths that could have been avoided.
Try convincing her from a perspective of the government willing to invest in her, and later, when she gets a better job, she can count how much she is paying off her "debt" via taxes. Frame it as a loan to her.
 
2013-11-27 06:59:21 PM  

GeneralJim: Animatronik: Farkin_Crazy: I don't think there is near the disdain for the ACA that the conservatives would have you believe there is.
And, once people actually start using it, it will become more palatable and political suicide for the right to continue to attempt to repeal it.

Hahahahaha..uhhahahahaha.
Keep trying

This law is a disaster. A friends company just announ that they will no longer offer coverage to spouses because Obamacare. His wife is panicking. Thanks to the mismanagement by the govt, the middle class is getting screwed.

I am fortunate to have good insurance.The problem with Obamacare is that its a clusterfark.
Its really that simple.Yes, it is that simple.  I REALLY find it hard to believe that even Fark leftists are supporting this turd of legislation, written by insurance company lobbyists.  Trying to shift blame onto the ZERO Republicans who voted for it, I would understand.  Blaming those who wrote it, saying they tricked the poor Democrats, I would understand.   But trying to find the "good points" about being rammed up the arse with a red-hot poker?  Seriously?
Some facts -- Over half of the people insured at the end of 2012 will lose their policies, due to Obamacare, before the 2014 elections.  I would note that people with insurance were 85% pleased with the insurance they had.  "Replacement policies" will, in the vast majority of cases, cost significantly more, AND have significantly higher deductibles, and this is not something that "talking points" will fix; the vast majority will be taking a MAJOR hit in insurance, either by increased premiums, or by losing coverage altogether.  Many people are also losing their jobs -- at least full-time jobs -- so employers can avoid the nastiness that is Obamacare.Even Democrats are bailing on this immense cluster-fark -- they know that you can't pick up a turd by the "clean end," and that if they are associated with Obamacare in the elections, they're friggin' toast.  As always, 100% of the seats ...


So says the paid Internet shill.
 
2013-11-27 07:00:19 PM  

Ned Stark:

Especially since they still get to set up tiny monopolies and IRS illegal to not buy their product.

Its a blindingly obvious outcome if you just ask yourself "what would a money obsessed sociopath do?" But I guess America just can't bring itself to question the Free Market™.

Oh, FFS...  YOU, yourself, call it "tiny monopolies" for a product "illegal not to buy."  This has close to NOTHING to do with "free markets."  In a free market, you can say "fark you, I don't want your product."

 
2013-11-27 07:00:20 PM  

GeneralJim: Paid Internet trolls are funded, from all appearances and evidence, ENTIRELY by the government.  The fact that "Fark Socialists" are all backing Obamacare all the way, when even Democrats are dissing it, is the best possible evidence that all the bullshiat derp being put out by those Fark socialists is paid for by the Obama administration.  Right about now, the ONLY people supporting Obamacare are those being paid to do so.  So, it looks like y'all have outed yourselves.


We're through the looking glass here people.
 
2013-11-27 07:09:31 PM  

GeneralJim: Paid Internet trolls are funded, from all appearances and evidence, ENTIRELY by the government.  The fact that "Fark Socialists" are all backing Obamacare all the way, when even Democrats are dissing it, is the best possible evidence that all the bullshiat derp being put out by those Fark socialists is paid for by the Obama administration.  Right about now, the ONLY people supporting Obamacare are those being paid to do so.  So, it looks like y'all have outed yourselves.


I don't know if this is serious derp, or a parody of derp.
 
2013-11-27 07:10:09 PM  

Silverstaff: GeneralJim: Paid Internet trolls are funded, from all appearances and evidence, ENTIRELY by the government.  The fact that "Fark Socialists" are all backing Obamacare all the way, when even Democrats are dissing it, is the best possible evidence that all the bullshiat derp being put out by those Fark socialists is paid for by the Obama administration.  Right about now, the ONLY people supporting Obamacare are those being paid to do so.  So, it looks like y'all have outed yourselves.

I don't know if this is serious derp, or a parody of derp.


Classic Poe's Law.
 
2013-11-27 07:15:07 PM  

LasersHurt: Silverstaff: GeneralJim: Paid Internet trolls are funded, from all appearances and evidence, ENTIRELY by the government.  The fact that "Fark Socialists" are all backing Obamacare all the way, when even Democrats are dissing it, is the best possible evidence that all the bullshiat derp being put out by those Fark socialists is paid for by the Obama administration.  Right about now, the ONLY people supporting Obamacare are those being paid to do so.  So, it looks like y'all have outed yourselves.

I don't know if this is serious derp, or a parody of derp.

Classic Poe's Law.


No, it's GeneralDerp, we can be pretty sure it's serious derp.
 
2013-11-27 07:15:53 PM  

Heliovdrake: So who do you think this threads shillout will be?

Ayn Rand's Slowmammal77

BJKnight

thin-noggin

General Whargarble

nopattern-jockstraparoma


You forgot:

Thick milk stuffing

The OG Plato
 
2013-11-27 07:16:39 PM  
GeneralJim:  In the 2014 election, as it stands now, of the Senate seats up for election in 2014, currently, there are 21 held by Democrats and 14 held by Republicans.  If Senate elections go 50/50, the Republicans take the Senate.

Soo... 35 seats are up for grabs, 14 currently held by Republicans.  Can't divide 35 exactly in half, so we'll round up in the GOP's favor, which means they would take 18 of 35 contested seats, if we go "50/50". This means that the GOP would pick up 4 seats. Since they currently have 45, that would leave them with 49.

Jesus, dude... is this some kind of double secret Trolling where you post something that is just flat out mathematically wrong?
 
2013-11-27 07:17:37 PM  
Seriously, what "spin?" I see a bunch of social conservatives expressing "concerns," lol
 
2013-11-27 07:20:06 PM  
Every one of these surveys should start out:
1. Overall, do you support or not support Obamacare?
2. Overall, do you support or not support the  Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act?
3. Did you know that Obamacare is the same thing as thePatient Protection and Affordable Care Act
Any survey with a NO for #3 or differing answers for #1 and #2 is thrown out.
With out this qualifying step, every survey is bullshiat.
 
2013-11-27 07:22:24 PM  

Silverstaff: technicolor-misfit: And a solid 30-40% of those who absolutely hate it, believe it's insurance created by the government and given to poor people for free. Period.

I have a cousin who refuses to shop for her Blue Cross insurance on the federal exchange, in spite of the fact that it's like 20-30% cheaper (before subsidies) than the comparable Blue Cross insurance that BC/BS is trying to push on her directly.

There are none so farked in the ass without lube than those who will not see.

Don't forget the 25% of the population that thinks that if you have an "Obamacare" plan then you have to use only special Obamacare Clinics and Obamacare Doctors, and you can be Death Paneled if it's too expensive to treat you.

Yes, I have seen the people who refuse, adamantly, to buy insurance on the exchanges because that would be surrendering to socialism, or something.

At work, I saw someone without insurance complaining about Obamacare.  She is a temp, no health insurance provided from her job, and was griping about "Obamacare" being so evil that it was making people who can't afford insurance buy it anyway.  We talked, I asked some questions about insurance and finances, and I did some math.  She was clearly eligible for Medicaid under the ACA expansion.  I told her that she could now get Medicaid through the ACA and not have to pay anything.  Her response?  To be offended at the idea of getting Medicaid, saying that she's not poor and she'd be damned before she accepted "socialized medicine" because "I'm no moocher, I earn what I get".  Never mind she can't afford insurance, she won't take it if it's given to her for free either.


Since your taxes help pay for medicaid, tell her she can give you a nickel a month to cover the amount you are funding to cover her.
 
2013-11-27 07:24:26 PM  

GeneralJim: I am fortunate to have good insurance.The problem with Obamacare is that its a clusterfark.
Its really that simple.Yes, it is that simple.  I REALLY find it hard to believe that even Fark leftists are supporting this turd of legislation, written by insurance company lobbyists.  Trying to shift blame onto the ZERO Republicans who voted for it, I would understand.  Blaming those who wrote it, saying they tricked the poor Democrats, I would understand.   But trying to find the "good points" about being rammed up the arse with a red-hot poker?  Seriously?


So maybe you can tell me which part of Obamacare didn't allow insurance to cover spouses (even though my plan still does)?

I mean there are legitimate criticisms of it but using anecdotes that can be easily debunked doesn't help.

GeneralJim: Some facts -- Over half of the people insured at the end of 2012 will lose their policies, due to Obamacare, before the 2014 elections.  I would note that people with insurance were 85% pleased with the insurance they had.  "Replacement policies" will, in the vast majority of cases, cost significantly more, AND have significantly higher deductibles, and this is not something that "talking points" will fix; the vast majority will be taking a MAJOR hit in insurance, either by increased premiums, or by losing coverage altogether.  Many people are also losing their jobs -- at least full-time jobs -- so employers can avoid the nastiness that is Obamacare.


My "Replacement policy" at work moved me from a regular insurance plan to something more like an HSA, they did drop the plan I had before. But I'm also going to pay less for the HSA than I do for my insurance plan (it does help that my company offers a discount for non-smokers).
 
2013-11-27 07:26:41 PM  

firefly212: Mrtraveler01: Animatronik: This law is a disaster. A friends company just announ that they will no longer offer coverage to spouses because Obamacare.

What part of Obamacare prohibits this?

Absolutely none... but the vogue thing to do is to do something totally dickish to your employees, then tag it with the finish "because Obamacare."


To be fair, this has been in vogue for a long time. The last thing a company is going to do is tell its customers "we're raising our prices to increase our profit margins". Before they blamed it on the ACA they blamed on regulations, the economy, increasing competition, whatever. Each year they made records profits in spite of these terrible problems.
 
2013-11-27 07:33:42 PM  
You want to stop any Repeal Obamacare discussion? Just use a little Socratic Irony and ask the simple questions like these...........:
1) Do you think people should have access to affordable health care?
2) What is your solution to that problem that would be better than the ACA?


Now watch them flail for an answer. Most of what you will get will be blathering similar (in terms of how well they can articulate an answer) to what was recorded last year at the Romney Ohio Rally . (yes, these are all 2012 election vids, but the result is the same) The opponents of the ACA will throw out all sorts of aphorisms they heard on the news the night before with little understanding of what they are talking about. When broken down - even on a cursory level - it is just a blubbering of bluster designed to denigrate the entire law and administration without actually saying anything.

It will likely be a string of sound bites they heard on Fox. Sure, there are some people with cogent arguments about the ACA, but they are few and far between. And well more often than not, they also will likely descend into embellishments and half-truths (if not outright lies) laced with sentimental, Hollywood BS about American exceptionalism that justifies some perverted, modern day version of Manifest Destiny. Because, there is no better way to skirt about discussing an issue that playing the war-pig, jingo angle whether it has anything to do with the topic that started the discussion. It is just a really good way to re-direct discussions.

Yes, Socratic Irony is a rather obnoxious way to discuss an issue (it actually is an oft used neo-con tactic), but given that most people who oppose the ACA, do it because some bobble-head told them enough lies that they think it is the truth. Given they are so immersed in the lies told to them, the only way to shake their minds is to challenge them to actually think. If it takes a little shaming to even get them to admit they have no idea what they think, at least that is a start. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and belief, but please make sure it is your belief. Not some sound bite written by a cable news pundit of millionaire politician.

Of course too, there will always be the Study It Out Fallback Defense Push Back. But that is easily defeated as well. Pressed for even a single bit if clarity on just about any point, The S.I.O. proponents will be hard pressed to produce much more than a chorus of crickets or an out of context quote from some famous person that supports their view only because it was cherry picked to do so.

The upshot is that any discussion of ACA for/against is almost a waste of time at this point. Better to write your legislators and hope your comments are considered. Trying to persuade any other average person, after all the rhetoric from so many different angles, is likely a pointless and fruitless endeavor.

For my part, I am done arguing it. Occasionally I engage in the debate, but almost always it is a waste of time. It's here. I want it to stay. It has its problems but they will get fixed. What I cannot fix are the people who refuse to even attempt to understand the law.

You can't fix stupid. Maybe someday they will open their eyes and read something. Probably not, but one can hope.
 
2013-11-27 07:33:50 PM  

Jaguar Paw: "She has cancer and treatments can be $98K apiece but she listens to the Limbaugh and Levin the radio and thinks she is better off with out insurance."

Proofread....proofread

Should be "She has cancer and treatments can be $98K apiece but she listens to Limbaugh and Levin on the radio and thinks she is better off with out insurance."


She has insurance that pays if someone (her kids?) publicly announce their homosexuality?

/hey, if you are going to proofread, might as well fix all the mistakes
 
2013-11-27 07:59:56 PM  

GeneralJim: Ned Stark: Especially since they still get to set up tiny monopolies and IRS illegal to not buy their product.
Its a blindingly obvious outcome if you just ask yourself "what would a money obsessed sociopath do?" But I guess America just can't bring itself to question the Free Market™.Oh, FFS...  YOU, yourself, call it "tiny monopolies" for a product "illegal not to buy."  This has close to NOTHING to do with "free markets."  In a free market, you can say "fark you, I don't want your product."


Remember when someone told you to knock it off with the green text and you said it was because some old Fark client used green text to quote people? Yeah that was bullshiat.
 
2013-11-27 08:02:40 PM  

unyon: Brostorm: This thread is hilarious.  You guys really wan't to believe anyone opposed to this law are ignorant rednecks that don't know whats good for them.  Of course you know whats good for them, of course you do.

Fair point.  I'd love to be enlightened by your alternative plan.  Please, continue.

I call bullshiat.  One does NOT need to have a better plan to know that Obamacare, which is not only screwing up insurance across the board, but has encouraged businesses to fire full-time workers and replace them with part-time workers, sucks.  Practically ANYTHING would be better.  In fact, it looks to me as if Obamacare was DESIGNED to be so outrageously bad that people would be willing to accept single-payer, just to get out of Obamacare.


But, since it's so EASY, here's a better plan than Obamacare:


1. It's illegal to tie health insurance to jobs -- ALL policies must be individual policies; with conversion of employer policies to individual.

2. It's illegal to alter policies and premiums for pre-existing conditions, if the person has been insured in the last 24 months.

3. If someone has not been insured in the last 24 months, and has a pre-existing condition, 50% surcharge is the maximum.

4. Insurance premiums are tax-deductible, and co-pays and deductibles are tax credits

5. Tax-free Individual or family "Medical Savings Accounts."

6. Deal better with "social aspects" of medicine -- homelessness, bad nutrition, lack of transportation, etc.

7. Government provides "low end" insurance and "preventables service" for any.

8. All insurance companies can operate in all 50 states, and all territories.

 
2013-11-27 08:04:58 PM  
www.vpython.org
 
2013-11-27 08:12:08 PM  
Derp. Derp derp derp.

Derp?

Derp.

Derp-derp a herpa derpa doo.
 
2013-11-27 08:14:50 PM  

GeneralJim: 8. All insurance companies can operate in all 50 states, and all territories.


I never understood what this one was supposed to accomplish.

Didn't we try this same stuff with the credit card companies, only to see them move to DE where the regulations favored them the most?
 
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