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(Guardian)   16-24 year olds prefer printed books to ebooks presumably because they are using them as door stops   (theguardian.com) divider line 69
    More: Interesting, e-books, young adult, research question  
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1006 clicks; posted to Geek » on 27 Nov 2013 at 4:11 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-27 04:16:59 PM
"If you go home with somebody and they don't own books, don't f**k them!"

- John Waters
 
2013-11-27 04:22:03 PM
"If you go home with somebody and they don't own books, f**k them!"

-hogans
 
2013-11-27 04:23:01 PM
I like my fiction on the Kindle, but cookbooks, textbooks, how to, and reference books?  Printed please.

//I'm 33 though....
 
2013-11-27 04:23:32 PM
The letters look so much warmer on analog books.
 
2013-11-27 04:24:30 PM

meat0918: I like my fiction on the Kindle, but cookbooks, textbooks, how to, and reference books?  Printed please.

//I'm 33 though....


ditto
 
2013-11-27 04:27:23 PM

Doc Batarang: "If you go home with somebody and they don't own books, don't f**k them!"

- John Waters


Funnily enough, I actually own John Water's latest book on the Kindle.
 
2013-11-27 04:27:46 PM
Interesting article in Scientific American last month: you actually retain more of what you read in paper books. That is because there are multiple clues to the information that are rendered useless in many forms of e-books.

For example, the "thickness" of the book on either side of the passage (i.e. how far you are into the book).  You can remember the approximate location easier.  Another example: the location on the page (left page, right page; top, middle or bottom of page).  With variable type like in e-books, don't always get that.  Many peoples minds will take these context clues to form memories.  Especially kinesthetic and visual learners.

The one big knock against paper books: lack of searchability (obviously).

The wife and I have an extensive library at home, but I also read quite a few e-books.  What I found is that my paperback/throwaway books are just as easily read on an e-reader; I don't care to retain much of what I read (if there is such a thing as mindless reading).  But anything I really cherish or want to retain, I own a paper book of.  So, being a huge Vonnegut fan, anything of his is naturally a physical volume (sometimes multiple editions if I have annotated one).
 
2013-11-27 04:28:39 PM

meat0918: I like my fiction on the Kindle, but cookbooks, textbooks, how to, and reference books?  Printed please.

//I'm 33 though....


Tablets actually work really well for those things, though, and comics look glorious on a retina-level display.
 
2013-11-27 04:32:02 PM
I like fiction on Kindle, debating whether or not having programming books on Kindle is a good idea.
 
2013-11-27 04:37:04 PM

RyansPrivates: So, being a huge Vonnegut fan, anything of his is naturally a physical volume (sometimes multiple editions if I have annotated one).


I'll grant you that. For the stuff you really cherish, it makes sense to get a nice printed edition, since it gives you something physical that really feels special. Plus, you can't really get a Kindle signed.

That said, Vonnegut's stuff is very nicely priced on Kindle. I've bought a good digital collection of his work for $2-3 each thanks to frequent sales. If you are a voracious reader that likes a variety of genres there are some crazy deals to be found.
 
2013-11-27 04:38:28 PM
I'm 30, prefer printed, but for a few different reasons. First, I have eidetic memory, but this requires a location to associate with the information. I can "read" books in my head. So while I was taking tests in school, I'd simply "look up" the information by remembering where on the page I saw it, then "reading" it on the picture of the page I'd have in my head (interestingly enough the Kindle app on my iPad does allow me to do this, but not a scrolling text program like Word). It seems to be more about the shapes of the letters and the text on the page than trying to remember what the words actually were. Second, I love the smell, which helps boost the association. If I can remember that my science textbook smelled like ozone while my English one had that library smell, it would help me remember information that much better.

Dunno what the kids are up to though, unless they've noticed the same thing about memory that I have.

/I also can't edit worth a damn on a computer screen. I have to print it out, otherwise the typos and grammar mistakes fly right by me. Too much chatting in the 90s and 00s.
 
2013-11-27 04:42:34 PM
It's the latest hipster trend among youths today.  e-books are so passe.
 
jgi
2013-11-27 04:46:11 PM
I like my ereader and ebooks because I love to read and ebooks are post-scarcity/free. You know what I mean.
 
2013-11-27 04:46:30 PM
You can't play Angry Birds on a book!
 
2013-11-27 04:46:34 PM

impaler: meat0918: I like my fiction on the Kindle, but cookbooks, textbooks, how to, and reference books?  Printed please.

//I'm 33 though....

ditto


Same here.  I thought I was the only one.  There's something about holding it and being able to flip around and even look at different pages at the same time.
 
2013-11-27 04:48:01 PM
When you are reading an electronic screen your eyes are exposed to flickers of light and darkness. When you read a page your eyes are exposed to a static image.

Reading paper is biologically easier and faster.
 
2013-11-27 04:52:01 PM

Darth Macho: When you are reading an electronic screen your eyes are exposed to flickers of light and darkness. When you read a page your eyes are exposed to a static image.

Reading paper is biologically easier and faster.


You've never seen an E-Ink screen, have you?
 
2013-11-27 04:52:40 PM

Darth Macho: When you are reading an electronic screen your eyes are exposed to flickers of light and darkness. When you read a page your eyes are exposed to a static image.

Reading paper is biologically easier and faster.


You should really sell your CRT monitor.
 
2013-11-27 04:53:23 PM
Maybe they are all fans of Richard Stallman's fiction.
 
2013-11-27 04:55:48 PM
Any sort of book that might have maps or diagrams pretty much needs to be printed IMO.  I bought a couple of history books for my Kindle and discovered it's a pain to jump between the part I'm reading and the map you needed to understand what was going on.
 
2013-11-27 04:57:33 PM

meat0918: I like my fiction on the Kindle, but cookbooks, textbooks, how to, and reference books?  Printed please.

//I'm 33 though....


Cookbooks are the only books I'll buy in physical form anymore.  However - I have an original iPad in my kitchen that has my recipes and compliments the cookbook  Plus it can be spilled on without issue.

/plus there is no search engine for querying a 100 cookbooks for a recipe
 
2013-11-27 04:58:27 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: Maybe they are all fans of Richard Stallman's fiction.


Isn't that dude dead yet?
 
2013-11-27 05:03:31 PM

meat0918: I like my fiction on the Kindle, but cookbooks, textbooks, how to, and reference books?  Printed please.

//I'm 33 though....


Google recipe. Attach printer.
Hit print.

Save if it was good.
 
2013-11-27 05:49:53 PM

meat0918: I like my fiction on the Kindle, but cookbooks, textbooks, how to, and reference books?  Printed please.

//I'm 33 though....


Depends on the interface.  If I have to actually touch the screen to type shiat, I tend to find navigating anything beyond "turn to next page" kind of awkward compared to just checking an index and going to a physical page.

But I use e-books on a laptop or desktop all the time for cooking, tabletop gaming, reference manuals, etc.  Search function is a handy thing to have when you can use it with little trouble.
 
2013-11-27 05:54:45 PM

Smackledorfer: meat0918: I like my fiction on the Kindle, but cookbooks, textbooks, how to, and reference books?  Printed please.

//I'm 33 though....

Google recipe. Attach printer.
Hit print.

Save if it was good.


I do that more and more.  I have a binder for the good ones.

Mad_Radhu: meat0918: I like my fiction on the Kindle, but cookbooks, textbooks, how to, and reference books?  Printed please.

//I'm 33 though....

Tablets actually work really well for those things, though, and comics look glorious on a retina-level display.


I have an older Kindle, and it's cumbersome compared to my kid's tablets and those are iPad knock off ZeePads my mother got them last year.... and they are painfully slow to use, but the kids love them.
 
2013-11-27 06:20:54 PM
This makes sense- printed books can't have their license "revoked" by a publisher.  Plus you can sell them second hand and make some of the money back.  Same for physical media like CDs and DVDs.
 
2013-11-27 06:26:19 PM

meat0918: I like my fiction on the Kindle, but cookbooks, textbooks, how to, and reference books?  Printed please.

//I'm 33 though....


I greatly prefer cookbooks as ebooks. No weighing down the pages to keep it opened, binding doesn't break, I can easily take them with me to the supermarket.
 
2013-11-27 06:28:18 PM
You can read a tablet in the bathroom, but it's useless if you run out of toilet paper.
 
2013-11-27 06:32:30 PM
Yo.

Ain't nobody be taking 'bout PDFs?

I guess they'd use it as toilet paper, g!
 
2013-11-27 06:32:51 PM

thornhill: No weighing down the pages to keep it opened, binding doesn't break,


You haven't figured out 3-ring binders and clear pocket pages?

thornhill: I can easily take them with me to the supermarket.


Why would you take a recipe to a supermarket? That's a grocery list.

/did I miss a change in how people shop?
 
2013-11-27 06:39:53 PM

Peki: You haven't figured out 3-ring binders?


How do you stop the 3-ring binding clamps from scratching up your tablet?
 
2013-11-27 06:41:57 PM

Peki: thornhill: No weighing down the pages to keep it opened, binding doesn't break,

You haven't figured out 3-ring binders and clear pocket pages?

thornhill: I can easily take them with me to the supermarket.

Why would you take a recipe to a supermarket? That's a grocery list.

/did I miss a change in how people shop?


So I should tear out all of the pages from the book, punch holes, and put them in a binder?

I cook things based on what fresh foods the market has and looks good, especially with seafood.

Another nice thing about e-cookbooks is that when discussing food with friends I can access my cookbooks (via kindle app on my iphone). I trade recipies all the time this way.
 
2013-11-27 06:43:19 PM

jizzler: This makes sense- printed books can't have their license "revoked" by a publisher.  Plus you can sell them second hand and make some of the money back.  Same for physical media like CDs and DVDs.


Both of things are valid complaints on your end of the time portal in 2003, but here in the amazing future world of 2013 both major e-book distributors allow you to make software backups, and licenses are revoked much, much less frequently than paperbacks are lost/misplaced.  And, free hint for your future: the Amazon price-fixing scheme will be smacked down in 2008 or so, at which point the difference between the price of digital copy and print copy will save you FAR more money than selling-back.  Usually like 30% to 50% of the cover price versus 5 to 10% for sell-back.

Sadly, no flying cars in the average person's budget range yet.  Try ringing 2023, maybe?
 
2013-11-27 06:51:06 PM

gingerjet: Vlad_the_Inaner: Maybe they are all fans of Richard Stallman's fiction.

Isn't that dude dead yet?


No.  Apparently sleeping under your desk at MIT is a very healthy lifestyle choice.
 
2013-11-27 07:19:12 PM

Mad_Radhu: meat0918: I like my fiction on the Kindle, but cookbooks, textbooks, how to, and reference books?  Printed please.

//I'm 33 though....

Tablets actually work really well for those things, though, and comics look glorious on a retina-level display.


I don't mind most things on a tablet, especially a cookbook because it takes up less space, but I hate reading comics on it. There is something about the scaling that ruins the complex persistence of vision effect and makes them way harder to follow.
 
2013-11-27 07:25:30 PM
16 isn't that many 24-year-olds.
 
2013-11-27 07:25:38 PM
32.

Buy both ebooks and paper books still.

Most of what I used to read as paperbacks I get as an ebook now.  But I still like to get nice hardcover editions of my favorite authors.

Whenever a new Neal Stephenson comes out, I like to hold that massive tome in my hands.
 
2013-11-27 07:28:27 PM

thornhill: Peki: thornhill: No weighing down the pages to keep it opened, binding doesn't break,

You haven't figured out 3-ring binders and clear pocket pages?

thornhill: I can easily take them with me to the supermarket.

Why would you take a recipe to a supermarket? That's a grocery list.

/did I miss a change in how people shop?

So I should tear out all of the pages from the book, punch holes, and put them in a binder?

I cook things based on what fresh foods the market has and looks good, especially with seafood.

Another nice thing about e-cookbooks is that when discussing food with friends I can access my cookbooks (via kindle app on my iphone). I trade recipies all the time this way.


Hardly. We usually photocopy the recipes we like, then put them in a separate book (actually we alter our Better Homes and Gardens cookbooks to have an additional section labelled "Family Recipes," which includes stuff from other books). But we don't mess up the books much, so they aren't laminated or anything.

The bit about shopping according to what the market has makes sense though. Not my habit as I haven't gotten advanced enough in food planning to shop by season, and I'm in an area where I can pretty much get anything I need year round.
 
2013-11-27 07:36:27 PM
I still only buy print books. They keep me warm when the lights go out.
 
2013-11-27 08:08:56 PM

RyansPrivates: The one big knock against paper books: lack of searchability (obviously).


Your other comments about multi-media cues still apply, though.  I have a library that runs from floor to ceiling for about a total of 60ft.  I lost count of how many books I own right about the 80th time my wife threatened to shoot me if I brought home just ONE MORE (now she just rolls her eyes).  Bragging aside, I can walk up to pretty much any book I own and find a passage I'm looking for just by flipping through the pages.  The context, narrative, physical location, and a host of other cues help me almost instantly zero in on the desired text.  Granted, it has to be something worth remembering (e.g. "The things that make us happy make us wise" is a quote that I love.  It's from John Crowley's Little, Big.  I know it's in the first quarter-ish of the book, close to the end of a chapter, on a sampler...)

Maybe if it were a blind search on a very specific quote (like the one above), electronics might win.  But in a sizable library you eventually run into needle-in-haystack issues.  Looking for a single common keyword or phrase will return way too many hits for it to be useful.  A good librarian with a working knowledge of the books he owns is much more capable of finding meaning where a computer can only find patterns.  Both have their place, but I'm not giving up my library so I can run a Ruby script to find every occurrence of "verisimilitude" when I already know the quote I'm looking for is in the preface to a collection of Greek tragedies somewhere in the drama section (rightmost bookcase, bottom shelf.)
 
2013-11-27 08:21:38 PM
I use old computer reference books to expand my cube at work.
 
2013-11-27 08:44:12 PM

Darth Macho: When you are reading an electronic screen your eyes are exposed to flickers of light and darkness.


Except that's not how e-paper in a Kindle or Nook works.  E-paper is made up of millions of tiny spheres, light on one side and dark on the other, that react to a magnetic charge.  Apply a charge and they face the direction you want.  The spheres are fairly static, so you do not need to keep refreshing the screen.  That's why the battery life on E-paper books is so high.


jizzler: This makes sense- printed books can't have their license "revoked" by a publisher.  Plus you can sell them second hand and make some of the money back.  Same for physical media like CDs and DVDs.


My pre-1985 edition of AD&D Deities and Demigods, complete with Cthulhu and Melnibonéan sections, nods in approval.
 
2013-11-27 09:26:40 PM

tillerman35: RyansPrivates: The one big knock against paper books: lack of searchability (obviously).

Your other comments about multi-media cues still apply, though.  I have a library that runs from floor to ceiling for about a total of 60ft.  I lost count of how many books I own right about the 80th time my wife threatened to shoot me if I brought home just ONE MORE (now she just rolls her eyes).  Bragging aside, I can walk up to pretty much any book I own and find a passage I'm looking for just by flipping through the pages.  The context, narrative, physical location, and a host of other cues help me almost instantly zero in on the desired text.  Granted, it has to be something worth remembering (e.g. "The things that make us happy make us wise" is a quote that I love.  It's from John Crowley's Little, Big.  I know it's in the first quarter-ish of the book, close to the end of a chapter, on a sampler...)

Maybe if it were a blind search on a very specific quote (like the one above), electronics might win.  But in a sizable library you eventually run into needle-in-haystack issues.  Looking for a single common keyword or phrase will return way too many hits for it to be useful.  A good librarian with a working knowledge of the books he owns is much more capable of finding meaning where a computer can only find patterns.  Both have their place, but I'm not giving up my library so I can run a Ruby script to find every occurrence of "verisimilitude" when I already know the quote I'm looking for is in the preface to a collection of Greek tragedies somewhere in the drama section (rightmost bookcase, bottom shelf.)


Totally agree.  Here is the article:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-reading-brain-i n- the-digital-age-why-paper-still-beats-screens
 
2013-11-27 10:03:45 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-11-27 10:22:14 PM

jizzler: This makes sense- printed books can't have their license "revoked" by a publisher.  Plus you can sell them second hand and make some of the money back.  Same for physical media like CDs and DVDs.


I'm not sure if you'd make enough reselling used books to cover the shipping cost.
 
2013-11-27 10:30:34 PM

gnosis301: I like fiction on Kindle, debating whether or not having programming books on Kindle is a good idea.


It's a horrible idea. Lookups KILL the battery life and take forever to accomplish. A PDF on your machine is the best idea next to a physical copy. I have a copy of the Machinery Handbook on my Kindle. It's good in a pinch but takes forever to get information from.
 
2013-11-27 11:03:56 PM

Mad Tea Party: jizzler: This makes sense- printed books can't have their license "revoked" by a publisher.  Plus you can sell them second hand and make some of the money back.  Same for physical media like CDs and DVDs.

I'm not sure if you'd make enough reselling used books to cover the shipping cost.


Sell my used books?  I'd rather sell my kids! But then I've wanted to do THAT since they turned into teenagers.

That stated, why not trade in the books for store credit at a good used book store?  That way, everybody wins.  You get new (to you) books.  Someone gets new (to them) books.  And the book store gets to stay in business so you can scour the shelves for Ace doubles and golden-age scifi.
 
2013-11-28 12:02:14 AM
eBooks make more sense if you read a lot of fiction that you're probably never going to look at again after reading once. If you need reference books or something you'll be reading multiple times for whatever reason, a printed book is easier to deal with.

It's a pain in the ass when I need to have multiple books open for reference and am trying to search though them as eBooks. Scrolling and loading takes a lot more time than just flipping through the pages.
 
2013-11-28 12:18:08 AM

RyansPrivates: tillerman35: RyansPrivates: The one big knock against paper books: lack of searchability (obviously).

Your other comments about multi-media cues still apply, though.  I have a library that runs from floor to ceiling for about a total of 60ft.  I lost count of how many books I own right about the 80th time my wife threatened to shoot me if I brought home just ONE MORE (now she just rolls her eyes).  Bragging aside, I can walk up to pretty much any book I own and find a passage I'm looking for just by flipping through the pages.  The context, narrative, physical location, and a host of other cues help me almost instantly zero in on the desired text.  Granted, it has to be something worth remembering (e.g. "The things that make us happy make us wise" is a quote that I love.  It's from John Crowley's Little, Big.  I know it's in the first quarter-ish of the book, close to the end of a chapter, on a sampler...)

Maybe if it were a blind search on a very specific quote (like the one above), electronics might win.  But in a sizable library you eventually run into needle-in-haystack issues.  Looking for a single common keyword or phrase will return way too many hits for it to be useful.  A good librarian with a working knowledge of the books he owns is much more capable of finding meaning where a computer can only find patterns.  Both have their place, but I'm not giving up my library so I can run a Ruby script to find every occurrence of "verisimilitude" when I already know the quote I'm looking for is in the preface to a collection of Greek tragedies somewhere in the drama section (rightmost bookcase, bottom shelf.)

Totally agree.  Here is the article:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-reading-brain-i n- the-digital-age-why-paper-still-beats-screens


The full article requires a subscription, but according to the summary of the article the big issues are these:

In general, screens are also more cognitively and physically taxing than paper. Scrolling demands constant conscious effort, and LCD screens on tablets and laptops can strain the eyes and cause headaches by shining light directly on people 's faces.

An e-ink reader like a Kindle Paperwhite has neither of these issues, so it should be no worse than reading with a paper book when it comes to the level of distraction and the way the text is laid out spatially. When it comes down to the mechanics of reading, the Paperwhite is basically just a magic sheet of paper that changes instead of you having to flip the page. Theoretically, it should be LESS distracting because all you have to do is to tap the screen to advance the page instead of having to switch from one facing page to another, then flip to the next page and then repeat the process. Sure the font is adjustable, but most people keep the font at one level they find comfortable and don't often change it. Sure, it takes a little adjusting to mentally, but I can flip around the chapters of a book on my Kindle pretty easily now that I've had one for a few years.
 
2013-11-28 12:20:22 AM

Sobekneferu: eBooks make more sense if you read a lot of fiction that you're probably never going to look at again after reading once. If you need reference books or something you'll be reading multiple times for whatever reason, a printed book is easier to deal with.

It's a pain in the ass when I need to have multiple books open for reference and am trying to search though them as eBooks. Scrolling and loading takes a lot more time than just flipping through the pages.


Sobekneferu: eBooks make more sense if you read a lot of fiction that you're probably never going to look at again after reading once. If you need reference books or something you'll be reading multiple times for whatever reason, a printed book is easier to deal with.

It's a pain in the ass when I need to have multiple books open for reference and am trying to search though them as eBooks. Scrolling and loading takes a lot more time than just flipping through the pages.


It's not how many times you read it, it's HOW you read it. Fictional stories you read straight from beginning to end. With that, reading on a small screen on a light phone, works better than a heavy book you have to keep open. Plus, you can read it in bed as your wife sleeps.

If you have to flip back and forth, hard copy always works best.
 
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