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(MSNBC) Video Last night, in order to discuss the Iran nuclear deal, Chris Hayes decided to have on famous Middle East expert Paul Wolfowitz. Their exchange was...well, let's just say it didn't go very well   (msnbc.com ) divider line
    More: Video, Paul Wolfowitz, Iran nuclear, Iran, Middle East, Munich  
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7355 clicks; posted to Video » on 27 Nov 2013 at 5:00 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-27 01:12:35 PM  
The fact that that dude was once one of the most powerful men in the country is terrifying.
 
2013-11-27 01:17:58 PM  
How long are we supposed to wait for the video to load?
 
2013-11-27 01:19:11 PM  

Speaker2Animals: How long are we supposed to wait for the video to load?


Until Iraq has a functioning democracy,
 
2013-11-27 01:48:03 PM  
I'm not really interested in watching anything Paul Wolfowitz has to say unless it's from a cage in The Hague.
 
2013-11-27 02:06:09 PM  

DamnYankees: The fact that that dude was once one of the most powerful men in the country is terrifying.


What kills me is that these same people keep popping up in every Republican administration. Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Bush the Lesser -- They're turds that just won't flush.
 
2013-11-27 02:13:29 PM  

Cagey B: I'm not really interested in watching anything Paul Wolfowitz has to say unless it's from a cage in The Hague Abu Ghraib

 
2013-11-27 02:31:11 PM  
While it's fun to point and laugh at this evil little troll, I think we should push him off the bridge and be done with him.
 
2013-11-27 02:37:30 PM  

Cagey B: I'm not really interested in watching anything Paul Wolfowitz has to say unless it's from a cage in The Hague.


The first farking thing out of his mouth was a strawman.  I turned it off after that.
 
2013-11-27 02:43:35 PM  

Sgt Otter: Cagey B: I'm not really interested in watching anything Paul Wolfowitz has to say unless it's from a cage in The Hague.

The first farking thing out of his mouth was a strawman.  I turned it off after that.


That's not a strawman.  It's neocon methodology.
 
2013-11-27 02:52:30 PM  
I like the cut of Chris Hayes jib.

And I'm a man who knows his way around a jib.
 
2013-11-27 03:00:55 PM  
Chris needs to quit playing the youth card with these old liars.  "The Iraq War was the worst thing in my lifetime," or words to that effect, give the elderly neocons a degree of gravitas of which they are unworthy.  Chris Hayes is a well informed commentator who owes nobody, least of all Wolfowitz, any apologies for his political insight.
 
2013-11-27 03:16:21 PM  
Wolfowitz continues to repeat the tactic of putting pressure on Iran, etc, etc, etc... What was his endgame?  To destroy Iran's regime with economic sanctions and perform another covert CIA operation to change the leadership?  The alternatives are either an all out war, or a peaceful and diplomatic resolution.  What am I missing here?
 
2013-11-27 03:17:52 PM  
4:40 is fantastic. Wolfowitz is dumbfounded and there are seconds of dead air before he goes onto vague statements.
 
2013-11-27 03:20:18 PM  
Wolfowitz entire stance in this interview is internally incoherent. He starts off by saying that we need to take the claims of foreign belligerents seriously, but then dismisses Iran's more peaceful statements. So the statements of foreign leaders are only supposed to be taken seriously when bellicose?
 
2013-11-27 03:20:26 PM  
"Keep the pressure on like we have been for the last 10 years until we get an agreement, and don't believe at face value any agreements they offer because they won't take it seriously."

How the fark do you say that shiat in the same breath. fark Paul Wolfowitz so farking much. He's a farking evil scumbad just like Cheney and Rumsfeld and is culpable to some of the worst shiat this country has done in the last three decades.
 
2013-11-27 03:48:02 PM  

Bloody William: "Keep the pressure on like we have been for the last 10 years until we get an agreement, and don't believe at face value any agreements they offer because they won't take it seriously."

How the fark do you say that shiat in the same breath. fark Paul Wolfowitz so farking much. He's a farking evil scumbad just like Cheney and Rumsfeld and is culpable to some of the worst shiat this country has done in the last three decades.


We'll end up with Cuba in the Middle East.

DamnYankees: Wolfowitz entire stance in this interview is internally incoherent. He starts off by saying that we need to take the claims of foreign belligerents seriously, but then dismisses Iran's more peaceful statements. So the statements of foreign leaders are only supposed to be taken seriously when bellicose?


The only important statements are the ones that affirm his predetermined conclusion that they need invading.
 
2013-11-27 03:50:01 PM  

Cagey B: I'm not really interested in watching anything Paul Wolfowitz has to say unless it's from a cage in The Hague.


I have to agree...I started to watch, just to see Wolfowitz get biatch slapped, but then realized that I didn't really even care enough to get thru the ad
 
2013-11-27 03:59:06 PM  
"I am reasonably certain that [Iraqis] will greet us as liberators" - Paul Wolfowitz
 
2013-11-27 04:14:08 PM  

impaler: "I am reasonably certain that [Iraqis] will greet us as liberators" - Paul Wolfowitz

Rand Paul.
 
2013-11-27 04:33:46 PM  

impaler: "I am reasonably certain that [Iraqis] will greet us as liberators" - Paul Wolfowitz


I still want that shiathead to end up on trial.
 
2013-11-27 04:53:11 PM  

dr_blasto: impaler: "I am reasonably certain that [Iraqis] will greet us as liberators" - Paul Wolfowitz

I still want that shiathead to end up on trial.


I'd be happy if ended up in Iraq.
 
2013-11-27 05:05:01 PM  
that anchor looks like a 25yr old trying to be a 50yr old
 
2013-11-27 05:08:26 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: DamnYankees: The fact that that dude was once one of the most powerful men in the country is terrifying.

What kills me is that these same people keep popping up in every Republican administration. Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Bush the Lesser -- They're turds that just won't flush.


Then they have the nerve to campaign on "bold new ideas".
 
2013-11-27 05:08:33 PM  

gittlebass: that anchor looks like a 25yr old trying to be a 50yr old


Now that is some searing insight!
 
2013-11-27 05:08:59 PM  
We keep saying it over and over...best thing we can do to keep the Republicans out of office is to keep giving them microphones.
 
2013-11-27 05:09:01 PM  

impaler: "I am reasonably certain that [Iraqis] will greet us as liberators" - Paul Wolfowitz


Also: "There's a lot of money to pay for this. It doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon." (March 27, 2003)

More quotes here.
 
2013-11-27 05:10:45 PM  
images.politico.com
"Vee must vait for zeh night before vee launch zeh bomb strikes."
 
2013-11-27 05:12:08 PM  

Sliding Carp: Cagey B: I'm not really interested in watching anything Paul Wolfowitz has to say unless it's from a cage in The Hague or Abu Ghraib


Just as long as we can put Cheney, Yoo, Rumsfeld, and Bremer in there with him.
 
2013-11-27 05:15:08 PM  

theorellior: Sliding Carp: Cagey B: I'm not really interested in watching anything Paul Wolfowitz has to say unless it's from a cage in The Hague or Abu Ghraib

Just as long as we can put Cheney, Yoo, Rumsfeld, and Bremer in there with him.


Make a Neo-Con Hawk Cock-Meat Sandwich.
 
2013-11-27 05:15:57 PM  
Paul Wolfowitz is on my short list of people I seriously want to die a horrible death.
 
2013-11-27 05:17:04 PM  

whitenoiseinsanity.com

 
2013-11-27 05:20:02 PM  
Let me guess: naive idealism versus throat-cutting realpolitik?

Not that it matters, the video DOESN'T farkING LOAD and half the people here are making meta complains about the people in the video.
 
2013-11-27 05:20:14 PM  

Sgt Otter: Cagey B: I'm not really interested in watching anything Paul Wolfowitz has to say unless it's from a cage in The Hague.

The first farking thing out of his mouth was a strawman.  I turned it off after that.


Wolfowitz IS the strawman. Seriously. I think they needed to change out his stuffing between takes.
 
2013-11-27 05:21:04 PM  

Ivo Shandor: impaler: "I am reasonably certain that [Iraqis] will greet us as liberators" - Paul Wolfowitz

Also: "There's a lot of money to pay for this. It doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon." (March 27, 2003)

More quotes here.


This was always my favorite. "But some of the higher-end predictions that we have been hearing recently, such as the notion that it will take several hundred thousand U.S. troops to provide stability in post-Saddam Iraq, are wildly off the mark. First, it's hard to conceive that it would take more forces to provide stability in post-Saddam Iraq than it would take to conduct the war itself and to secure the surrender of Saddam's security forces and his army. Hard to imagine."

The hubris of just ignoring the advice of experts within the military and just substituting his own reality with no basis whatsoever is just amazing. Him and Rumsfeld both acted like deluded fools on the edge of senility all though the run up to war and yet so many not only took them seriously but actually believe they should be in positions of power.
 
2013-11-27 05:21:43 PM  
Middle East expert, huh? How many decades of total failure are required to reach "expert" status?
 
2013-11-27 05:24:10 PM  
Peace can never solve a problem. Because treaties are reversible!
http://cdn.coldwatercreek.com/stylespotblog/reversible-jacket-sheryl. j pg
 
2013-11-27 05:24:45 PM  

Bloody William: "Keep the pressure on like we have been for the last 10 years until we get an agreement, and don't believe at face value any agreements they offer because they won't take it seriously."

How the fark do you say that shiat in the same breath. fark Paul Wolfowitz so farking much. He's a farking evil scumbad just like Cheney and Rumsfeld and is culpable to some of the worst shiat this country has done in the last three decades.


So here's the problem:

* The Palestinians spent 40 years reneging on every agreement they ever made.  In fact, the nicer the agreement was, the more likely they were to spit in everyone's faces and ignore it entirely (including kicking off the 2nd Intifada after Oslo gave them 99% of what they wanted).
* The Egyptians and Syrians kept their agreements because a) We bribed them, and b) The old guard of generals wasn't doing that again.  2 times is enough, thank you very much.
* The Saudis kept farking us by funding madrassas everywhere.
* Iran went from CIA-backed Shah to some very nasty people with the Ayatollah.  (Correctly.  See CIA-backed coup bit).
* And Saddam loved violating every agreement he ever made (or at least doing a fantastic job of looking like he was farking with us).

And that's the environment under which they come of political age.  In short, you have multiple generations of policy-makers for whom Middle Easterners are untrustworthy and any actual agreement will result in us giving them something and then them farking us.  (And from what I've heard, for some cultural reasons, negotiation is viewed as a sign of weakness over there).

So for those people, the end goal of any Middle Eastern agreement is to: A) Knock them into the dirt so that they'll actually start negotiating instead of just farking with us and B) Trust, but verify because we've learned that they CANNOT be trusted.

So it does make sense if you can wrap your head around the way they think.

/Of course, given that the Saudi's are just now saying that they'll let Israel overfly on their way to destroy the nuclear program, the agreement will work one way or the other.
 
2013-11-27 05:25:51 PM  

super_grass: Let me guess: naive idealism versus throat-cutting realpolitik?


I dunno, I'd never call Chris Hays "throat-cutting Realpolitik", but I'll accept it for now.
 
2013-11-27 05:27:12 PM  
Holy crap, that Chris Hayes guy is an asshole. I think we can all agree that Wolfowitz was a terrible mistake in power, but there's no need to be such an aggressive twat in the lead up to the interview.

"Terrible sad phase?" Sure it's true, but why would you say something so condescending right before bringing a former high-ranking official on? Where did respect go in the public dialogue?
 
2013-11-27 05:27:22 PM  
The video feed has been interrupted apparently...

i1.ytimg.com
 
2013-11-27 05:29:12 PM  

Speaker2Animals: How long are we supposed to wait for the video to load?


Chill out. Lick your fingers, run them thru your hair, then comb it.
 
2013-11-27 05:31:47 PM  

Seth'n'Spectrum: Holy crap, that Chris Hayes guy is an asshole. I think we can all agree that Wolfowitz was a terrible mistake in power, but there's no need to be such an aggressive twat in the lead up to the interview.

"Terrible sad phase?" Sure it's true, but why would you say something so condescending right before bringing a former high-ranking official on? Where did respect go in the public dialogue?


Yeah, making fun of your interviewee before the interview doesn't really scream "professionalism".
 
2013-11-27 05:32:19 PM  
Is Paul Wolfowitz an Israeli agent or what?  Why so hellbent on another war?
 
2013-11-27 05:34:36 PM  

Brontes: Is Paul Wolfowitz an Israeli agent or what?  Why so hellbent on another war?


He's what's called a "zionist". That's what we call a hyper-nationalist who would wage bloody war and extermination based on a literal interpretation of religious text... on behalf of other people.
 
2013-11-27 05:34:45 PM  
The video positioning slider didn't work for me.

The content would play from the beginning (after a 15-second mandatory preroll ad), but after that, I had no control at all over where in the video I was. 

May as well not have included that control in the GUI for all the good it did.

I lasted about a minute, then closed the window.

If this is NBC's take on "The Internet", they've missed it entirely.
 
2013-11-27 05:35:42 PM  

theorellior: super_grass: Let me guess: naive idealism versus throat-cutting realpolitik?

I dunno, I'd never call Chris Hays "throat-cutting Realpolitik", but I'll accept it for now.


I love how the same people who swallowed the "greeted as liberators" nonsense are so quick to call others naive.
 
2013-11-27 05:35:55 PM  
More_Like_A_Stain:
img.fark.net

" ♫ Springtime, for Hitler, and Ger-man-y. BVVVVVT-BVVVVT BVVTBVVTBVVVVT BVVVVTBVVVVTTTT! ♫ "
 
2013-11-27 05:38:19 PM  

BMulligan: I love how the same people who swallowed the "greeted as liberators" nonsense are so quick to call others naive.


"It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months." --noted naïve idealist Donald Rumsfeld
 
2013-11-27 05:38:41 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: Seth'n'Spectrum: Holy crap, that Chris Hayes guy is an asshole. I think we can all agree that Wolfowitz was a terrible mistake in power, but there's no need to be such an aggressive twat in the lead up to the interview.

"Terrible sad phase?" Sure it's true, but why would you say something so condescending right before bringing a former high-ranking official on? Where did respect go in the public dialogue?

Yeah, making fun of your interviewee before the interview doesn't really scream "professionalism".


Yeah that was kind of a shiatty intro. I wasn't sure why they would do that - Hayes is generally very generous to conservative guests, but its possible that his pure hatred of the Iraq-War-folks overrode that this time. The question is why the fark Wolfowitz ever agreed to this interview.
 
2013-11-27 05:38:45 PM  
Interesting discussion, not quite as one sided as subby seems to think. What is never said by Wolfowitz is what he really thinks should happen, but it can be inferred. At 10:30 Wolfowitz expresses concern that the agreement will legitimize the regime, undercutting "the people of Iran." What he wants is regime change. And if a negotiated agreement will give the Ayatollah's international standing in exchange for their ability to make nuclear weapons, I think he might be against it.
 
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