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(ESPN)   Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine make their debuts on the Hall of Fame ballot. Chicks dig the the 300-game winners   (espn.go.com) divider line 112
    More: Spiffy, Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Hall of Fames, Moises Alou, Jeff Bagwell, Hall of Fame ballot, Big Macs, Mike Mussina  
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573 clicks; posted to Sports » on 26 Nov 2013 at 6:50 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



112 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-11-26 06:00:10 PM  
Glavine especially deserves it. Imagine getting your 300th win with the Mets
 
2013-11-26 06:50:53 PM  
Last year, the BBWAA failed for the first time since 1996 to produce any inductees. Craig Biggio came closest to receiving the necessary 75 percent, falling 39 votes shy with 388 (68.2 percent).

If that happens this year with Maddux and Glavine on the ballot, then there's something way the fark wrong with the system.
 
2013-11-26 07:02:32 PM  

exick: Last year, the BBWAA failed for the first time since 1996 to produce any inductees. Craig Biggio came closest to receiving the necessary 75 percent, falling 39 votes shy with 388 (68.2 percent).

If that happens this year with Maddux and Glavine on the ballot, then there's something way the fark wrong with the system.


I imagine the BBWAA to consist solely of clones of Jay Mariotti. No matter what happens, something will be wrong.
 
2013-11-26 07:04:28 PM  

exick: Last year, the BBWAA failed for the first time since 1996 to produce any inductees. Craig Biggio came closest to receiving the necessary 75 percent, falling 39 votes shy with 388 (68.2 percent).

If that happens this year with Maddux and Glavine on the ballot, then there's something way the fark wrong with the system.


Maddux and Glavine will go in on their first or second tries.  All the other newcomers on that list will never get in.  Richie Sexon? You can get into the hall for striking out?
 
2013-11-26 07:08:20 PM  

Hollie Maea: exick: Last year, the BBWAA failed for the first time since 1996 to produce any inductees. Craig Biggio came closest to receiving the necessary 75 percent, falling 39 votes shy with 388 (68.2 percent).

If that happens this year with Maddux and Glavine on the ballot, then there's something way the fark wrong with the system.

Maddux and Glavine will go in on their first or second tries.  All the other newcomers on that list will never get in.  Richie Sexon? You can get into the hall for striking out?


i2.cdn.turner.com
I'm #1, baby!
 
2013-11-26 07:08:46 PM  
Last chance for Black Jack Morris. Unfortunate it's along with Maddux and Glavine first time.
 
2013-11-26 07:12:41 PM  

exick: If that happens this year with Maddux and Glavine on the ballot, then there's something way the fark wrong with the system.


There already is.  There's tons wrong, but none of it is fixable.  Mostly because the BBWAA and the Hall executive committee are petty, self-important douchebags who are actively trying to turn the BHOF into the RRHOF.

Personally, and I've said this before, so if you remember, bear with me for the noobs, there should be levels of the HOF.  Kinda like the idea of graduating cum laude, magna cum laude & summa cum laude.  Players like the Babe, Cy, Nolan Ryan, Hank, Ted etc. get highest honors; players like Bench, Yaz, Musial & Kaline get high honors, and players like 90% of the pre-1900 group, Santo & Rice get just plain old "in the HOF."  Would there be biatching? Hell ya, because that's what we baseball fans do.  But there'd be much, much less.  You could even do a reranking every 10 or 20 years to make things more interesting.
 
2013-11-26 07:16:02 PM  

FriarReb98: Personally, and I've said this before, so if you remember, bear with me for the noobs, there should be levels of the HOF.


Bill Simmons?
 
2013-11-26 07:16:46 PM  
Greg Maddux should be unanimous, but he won't be. I hate how the BBWAA plays games with their ballots.
 
2013-11-26 07:19:37 PM  

exick: Last year, the BBWAA failed for the first time since 1996 to produce any inductees. Craig Biggio came closest to receiving the necessary 75 percent, falling 39 votes shy with 388 (68.2 percent).

If that happens this year with Maddux and Glavine on the ballot, then there's something way the fark wrong with the system.


Neither of them will be allowed in on the first ballot, though now that Deadspin has a vote, I have high hopes for Pig-Poops-on-Balls
 
2013-11-26 07:24:39 PM  
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Tom Glavine
Gregg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Frank Thomas

I'd be happy with that ballot.
 
2013-11-26 07:27:06 PM  

rugman11: Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Tom Glavine
Gregg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Frank Thomas
Jack Morris

I'd be happy with that ballot.


FTFM
 
2013-11-26 07:28:25 PM  

rcf1105: Greg Maddux should be unanimous, but he won't be. I hate how the BBWAA plays games with their ballots.


Agreed. Maddux is a rare genius of an athelete. I believe he simply outsmarted most people on a regular basis. He is also the absolute very least likely person I could ever fathom using PEDs. And I bet he'd be a cool guy to talk to as well.
 
2013-11-26 07:33:46 PM  
Maddux, Glavine, and Cox damn well better go in next year.
 
2013-11-26 07:42:01 PM  
At least one voter will vote for Jack Morris and not Greg Maddux this year.

Just think about that.
 
2013-11-26 07:43:28 PM  

rcf1105: Greg Maddux should be unanimous, but he won't be. I hate how the BBWAA plays games with their ballots.


http://deadspin.com/deadspin-buys-hall -of-fame-vote-will-turn-it-over- to-d-1467003665

Speaking of playing games with the ballots...someone in the bbwaa sold their vote to Deadspin. Will remain anonymous until after the process is complete. Heard about it on Dan Lebatards radio show today this evening. Lebatard has a vote too btw.

/sorry about the copy paste link. clicky on mobile doesn't work well for me.
 
2013-11-26 07:45:17 PM  

ClavellBCMI: rugman11: Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens

Tom Glavine
Gregg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Frank Thomas
Jack Morris

I'd be happy with that ballot.

FTFM


refixed it. no steroid users get in .
 
2013-11-26 07:47:24 PM  
Just wish Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, and Cox could go in together.  They didn't win the number of rings they should have, but that group was uber special.
 
2013-11-26 07:51:32 PM  

bulldg4life: Maddux, Glavine, and Cox damn well better go in next year.


And then Smoltz in 2015.

/And Johnson too.
//Nomo's been out  that long?!?!
///Saw all three of 'em play at the old Fulton County Stadium.
//Really more of a Cards can, tho'
/Last slashie, I promise
 
2013-11-26 07:54:01 PM  
Is Eric Gregg going to adjudicate the ballots?
 
2013-11-26 07:54:20 PM  
Cards FAN, Cards FAN
 
2013-11-26 08:03:30 PM  

grimlock1972: ClavellBCMI: rugman11: Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Tom Glavine
Gregg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Frank Thomas
Jack Morris

I'd be happy with that ballot.

FTFM

refixed it. no steroid users get in .


imokwiththis.jpg
 
2013-11-26 08:06:46 PM  
Maddux should be first ballot.  Averaged 229 innings over 22 years while being completely dominant over about a 10 year period.  Glavine, ehh, whatever.
 
2013-11-26 08:09:25 PM  

grimlock1972: ClavellBCMI: rugman11: Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Tom Glavine
Gregg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Frank Thomas
Jack Morris

I'd be happy with that ballot.

FTFM

refixed it. no steroid users get in .


Jack Morris was a slightly above-average pitcher who had the good fortune to rack up a good win-loss record owing to his playing for many years on very good teams.

And if we're keeping out all the steroids users, you might as well erase all of the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s from the Hall of Fame because amphetamines were taking like vitamins back then.
 
2013-11-26 08:09:56 PM  
Maddux is a lock, he's one of the best pitchers ever, not just the best of his generation. Glavine was more than good enough for long enough to get in on his first ballot.
 
2013-11-26 08:12:39 PM  

Jekylman: Is Eric Gregg going to adjudicate the ballots?


He's dead.
 
2013-11-26 08:13:09 PM  

exick: Last year, the BBWAA failed for the first time since 1996 to produce any inductees. Craig Biggio came closest to receiving the necessary 75 percent, falling 39 votes shy with 388 (68.2 percent).

If that happens this year with Maddux and Glavine on the ballot, then there's something way the fark wrong with the system.


Nobody will get in on the first ballot, and there is absolutely something very, very wrong with the system.
 
2013-11-26 08:15:31 PM  

rugman11: good win-loss record


It's not even particularly good.

Morris is a popular pick for two reasons:

1. He had a couple of very good playoff games that everyone remembers
2. He stopped pitching RIGHT before the start of the "steroid era"
 
2013-11-26 08:20:40 PM  

Nabb1: Jekylman: Is Eric Gregg going to adjudicate the ballots?

He's dead.


"Cross him off, then."
 
2013-11-26 08:26:36 PM  

DeWayne Mann: rugman11: good win-loss record

It's not even particularly good.

Morris is a popular pick for two reasons:

1. He had a couple of very good playoff games that everyone remembers
2. He stopped pitching RIGHT before the start of the "steroid era"


I think he also benefited from going up against Blyleven for some many years that the two kind of created an old school/eye-test versus new school/stats argument that resulted in many people choosing sides and arguing far more vociferously for their chosen candidate than they might have otherwise.

That is, I'm not sure the Blyleven backers would have been quite so aggressive had they not wanted to get him in ahead of Morris, and vice versa for the Morris backers.
 
2013-11-26 08:26:52 PM  

mikemoto: Glavine especially deserves it. Imagine getting your 300th win with the Mets


Glavine won 300 games throwing stuff I'm almost certain I could hit. 82 MPH, outside corner. And he made professionals look confused.

Maddux at least had the decency to carve you up so bad that you'd look like a leftover turkey.
 
2013-11-26 08:31:01 PM  
Just because I laugh every time I think about it. Two pitchers:

Pitcher A:
19 year career. 3256.1IP, 476 starts, 211-144 (.594 W%). 3.28 ERA. 2397 K. 6 time all-star, never finished better than 2nd in Cy Voting. 4.19 ERA in 13 postseason starts, 5-5 record.

Pitcher B:
18 year career. 3824.0, 527 starts, 254-186(.577 W%). 3.90 ERA. 2478 K. 5 time all-star, never finished better than 3rd in Cy Voting. 3.80 ERA in 13 postseason starts (and 1 relief appearance), 7-4 record.

You'll note I only used stats that I assume typical HOF voters look at.

Guess which one got 2.1% of the vote in his first year on the ballot and fell off!
 
2013-11-26 08:35:12 PM  

rugman11: I think he also benefited from going up against Blyleven for some many years that the two kind of created an old school/eye-test versus new school/stats argument that resulted in many people choosing sides and arguing far more vociferously for their chosen candidate than they might have otherwise.

That is, I'm not sure the Blyleven backers would have been quite so aggressive had they not wanted to get him in ahead of Morris, and vice versa for the Morris backers.


I'm still not convinced that was actually anything more than "Blyleven was a bit of a dick but Jack Morris was really nice."
 
2013-11-26 08:41:06 PM  

grimlock1972: ClavellBCMI: rugman11: Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Tom Glavine
Gregg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Frank Thomas
Jack Morris

I'd be happy with that ballot.

FTFM

refixed it. no steroid users get in .


What makes you think those guys are clean? Piazza was reportedly on a ton of juice
 
2013-11-26 08:59:48 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Just because I laugh every time I think about it. Two pitchers:

Pitcher A:
19 year career. 3256.1IP, 476 starts, 211-144 (.594 W%). 3.28 ERA. 2397 K. 6 time all-star, never finished better than 2nd in Cy Voting. 4.19 ERA in 13 postseason starts, 5-5 record.

Pitcher B:
18 year career. 3824.0, 527 starts, 254-186(.577 W%). 3.90 ERA. 2478 K. 5 time all-star, never finished better than 3rd in Cy Voting. 3.80 ERA in 13 postseason starts (and 1 relief appearance), 7-4 record.

You'll note I only used stats that I assume typical HOF voters look at.

Guess which one got 2.1% of the vote in his first year on the ballot and fell off!


similarly, I thought it was criminal Kenny Lofton only lasted 1 year on the ballot.  He's probably not a HOFer, but you could have made a case.  He deserved more than 5% of the vote.
 
2013-11-26 09:14:18 PM  

ClavellBCMI: grimlock1972: ClavellBCMI: rugman11: Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Tom Glavine
Gregg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Frank Thomas
Jack Morris

I'd be happy with that ballot.

FTFM

refixed it. no steroid users get in .

imokwiththis.jpg


You're totally cool with coke, apparently.
 
2013-11-26 09:24:00 PM  
Okay so you have Raines and Alou going in as Expos (if elected), would Vlad be the only other former Expo then (if elected?).  Also would Edgar get the Ray Guy treatment?
 
2013-11-26 09:28:16 PM  
How many people missed "the the" in the headline?
 
2013-11-26 09:34:22 PM  

EJ25T: ClavellBCMI: grimlock1972: ClavellBCMI: rugman11: Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Tom Glavine
Gregg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Frank Thomas
Jack Morris

I'd be happy with that ballot.

FTFM

refixed it. no steroid users get in .

imokwiththis.jpg

You're totally cool with coke, apparently.


Just FYI, an official ballot has a limited number of votes. I think the limit is nine.
 
2013-11-26 09:38:24 PM  
I went 2 for 3 off Glavine in high school.

/csb
 
2013-11-26 09:42:11 PM  
I don't think he'll get in this year with both Glavine and Maddux on the ballot, but I'm hopeful Mike Mussina will one day get in. I think people tremendously underrate him because he spent a number of years on a bad Orioles team.
 
2013-11-26 09:45:12 PM  
Joe DiMaggio wouldn't be first ballot this year. The system is brokeno
 
2013-11-26 09:52:02 PM  
ESPN's text sad Maddux and Glavine make all star ballot along with steroid era holdovers. The lulz.
 
2013-11-26 09:57:27 PM  

FishyFred: EJ25T: ClavellBCMI: grimlock1972: ClavellBCMI: rugman11: Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Tom Glavine
Gregg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Frank Thomas
Jack Morris

I'd be happy with that ballot.

FTFM

refixed it. no steroid users get in .

imokwiththis.jpg

You're totally cool with coke, apparently.

Just FYI, an official ballot has a limited number of votes. I think the limit is nine.


I thought it was ten, so I put on the ten guys I think are deserving.  If it's just nine, I'd probably take off Lee Smith.
 
2013-11-26 10:12:19 PM  

EJ25T: ClavellBCMI: grimlock1972: ClavellBCMI: rugman11: Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Tom Glavine
Gregg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Frank Thomas
Jack Morris

I'd be happy with that ballot.

FTFM

refixed it. no steroid users get in .

imokwiththis.jpg

You're totally cool with coke, apparently.


Recreational drugs and steroids are two different things, but not to you.

Apparently.
 
2013-11-26 10:15:52 PM  
I used to love going to Braves games when Maddux pitched.  89 pitches.  67 strikes.  Hour and a Half.  That was baseball.
 
2013-11-26 10:23:57 PM  

rugman11: FishyFred: EJ25T: ClavellBCMI: grimlock1972: ClavellBCMI: rugman11: Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Tom Glavine
Gregg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Frank Thomas
Jack Morris

I'd be happy with that ballot.

FTFM

refixed it. no steroid users get in .

imokwiththis.jpg

You're totally cool with coke, apparently.

Just FYI, an official ballot has a limited number of votes. I think the limit is nine.

I thought it was ten, so I put on the ten guys I think are deserving.  If it's just nine, I'd probably take off Lee Smith.


It is ten.
 
2013-11-26 10:27:55 PM  

MFAWG: EJ25T: ClavellBCMI: grimlock1972: ClavellBCMI: rugman11: Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Tom Glavine
Gregg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Frank Thomas
Jack Morris

I'd be happy with that ballot.

FTFM

refixed it. no steroid users get in .

imokwiththis.jpg

You're totally cool with coke, apparently.

Recreational drugs and steroids are two different things, but not to you.

Apparently.


So what about amphetamines then?  They are banned by MLB as a performance-enhancing drug.  Hall-of-Famers Hank Aaron and Mike Schmidt have admitted to taking them.  Dale Berra testified under oath that he was supplied amphetamines by Hall-of-Famer Willie Stargell.  How can you endorse keeping some PED-users out of the HOF when there are dozens already in there?
 
2013-11-26 10:35:03 PM  

Bubblegum Tate: DeWayne Mann: Just because I laugh every time I think about it. Two pitchers:

Pitcher A:
19 year career. 3256.1IP, 476 starts, 211-144 (.594 W%). 3.28 ERA. 2397 K. 6 time all-star, never finished better than 2nd in Cy Voting. 4.19 ERA in 13 postseason starts, 5-5 record.

Pitcher B:
18 year career. 3824.0, 527 starts, 254-186(.577 W%). 3.90 ERA. 2478 K. 5 time all-star, never finished better than 3rd in Cy Voting. 3.80 ERA in 13 postseason starts (and 1 relief appearance), 7-4 record.

You'll note I only used stats that I assume typical HOF voters look at.

Guess which one got 2.1% of the vote in his first year on the ballot and fell off!

similarly, I thought it was criminal Kenny Lofton only lasted 1 year on the ballot.  He's probably not a HOFer, but you could have made a case.  He deserved more than 5% of the vote.


Kenny Lofton definitely deserved more votes.

As to pitcher A and pitcher B, the most damning stat is that pitcher A put up a 127 career ERA+ and pitcher B a 105.

Pitcher A is on the long, long, LONG list of pitchers better than Jack Morris who will never come anywhere near the hall.
 
2013-11-26 10:38:25 PM  

Dafatone: As to pitcher A and pitcher B, the most damning stat is that pitcher A put up a 127 career ERA+ and pitcher B a 105.


Yeah, but 75% of the voters don't know what that is and become violent when encountered with it.
 
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