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(Daily Mail)   The Power Of Love: 'Earlier this year, Mark, who transitioned in 2003, helped Jessica find the confidence to remove her testicles.'   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 128
    More: Sappy, Jessica O'Donnell, Wilton Manors, occupational therapists, interpersonal relationship  
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5614 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Nov 2013 at 2:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-26 03:40:48 PM  

LordBeavis: Kahabut: Tunacrab: Elective genital mutilation does not make you the other sex.

We live in a sick society.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^SO FARKING MUCH THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wow, lots of hate for the transgendered community.  The Fark Libertarian tilt doesn't extend to the people that want to get their naughty bits changed?  Much like ghey people, I really don't give two craps what an adult wants to do with his/her naughty parts as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.  Yes, it's icky and not for me.  So is black licorice and blood pudding.  I'm not, however, going to condemn society as a whole because we allow people freedom.


I was going to make a comment about how it seems that people go with an irreversible surgical intervention and still have dysmorphic issues, but instead I'm going with Monty Python.

i1.ytimg.com
Stan: I want to have babies.
Reg: You want to have babies?!?!
Stan: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
Reg: But ... you can't HAVE babies!
Stan: Don't you oppress me!
Reg: I'm not oppressing you, Stan. You haven't got a womb! Where's the foetus gonna gestate? You gonna keep it in a box?
 
2013-11-26 03:41:29 PM  

Tunacrab: I'd love to participate, but I must go to work.


Come on, you got 26 minutes. Whats it take, 15 tops?
 
2013-11-26 03:41:46 PM  

LordBeavis: Kahabut: Tunacrab: Elective genital mutilation does not make you the other sex.

We live in a sick society.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^SO FARKING MUCH THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wow, lots of hate for the transgendered community.  The Fark Libertarian tilt doesn't extend to the people that want to get their naughty bits changed?  Much like ghey people, I really don't give two craps what an adult wants to do with his/her naughty parts as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.  Yes, it's icky and not for me.  So is black licorice and blood pudding.  I'm not, however, going to condemn society as a whole because we allow people freedom.


This. A true Libertarian believes that any adult of sound mind should be able to do whatever they wish to do, as long as they aren't harming another person. Cut your dick off, shoot smack, marry a duck, whatever. Leave people the fark alone and let them do what they want.
 
2013-11-26 03:42:11 PM  
Sure, go ahead and make light of the mentally ill. Classy.
 
2013-11-26 03:44:27 PM  

Tunacrab: I'd love to participate, but I must go to work.


Don't lie, you coward.  You just don't want to admit that you can't justify your hate.
 
2013-11-26 03:47:22 PM  

happydude45: as long as they aren't harming another person. Cut your dick off, shoot smack, marry a duck, whatever.


we don't live in a vacuum.  things people selfishly do to themselves often have repercussions for other people.
 
2013-11-26 03:50:50 PM  
I've cast the film version.


i.dailymail.co.uk

fashionone.s3.amazonaws.comwww1.pictures.zimbio.com
 
2013-11-26 03:50:54 PM  

frepnog: happydude45: as long as they aren't harming another person. Cut your dick off, shoot smack, marry a duck, whatever.

we don't live in a vacuum.  things people selfishly do to themselves often have repercussions for other people.


what part of "as long as it doesn't hurt someone else" do you not understand? Also, all repercussions are not illegal, nor should they be.
 
2013-11-26 03:51:05 PM  

LordBeavis: Kahabut: Tunacrab: Elective genital mutilation does not make you the other sex.

We live in a sick society.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^SO FARKING MUCH THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wow, lots of hate for the transgendered community.  The Fark Libertarian tilt doesn't extend to the people that want to get their naughty bits changed?  Much like ghey people, I really don't give two craps what an adult wants to do with his/her naughty parts as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.  Yes, it's icky and not for me.  So is black licorice and blood pudding.  I'm not, however, going to condemn society as a whole because we allow people freedom.


Wow, lots of imagined bullshiat no one said.  Congrats, you win today's "jump to conclusions that are utterly unfounded and idiotic".  Says more about you than it does anyone else.

No one said they should not be allowed the freedom to mutilate themselves.  Doesn't change that it's sick.
 
2013-11-26 03:52:52 PM  

serpent_sky: wildcardjack: I just realized choice isn't the right word, but it's still an ignored form of body dysmorphic disorder.

Actually, I'd argue it's an extreme version of body dysmorphic disorder, possibly the most extreme.


I think the "I want to have my leg cut off" people might just be a smidge worse.
 
2013-11-26 03:52:53 PM  

Prophet of Loss: wildcardjack: I just realized choice isn't the right word, but it's still an ignored form of body dysmorphic disorder.

Is the pursuit of happiness objective or subjective? If someone is miserable with their balls attached and make an informed decision to remove them and is happy as a result is that not a better outcome than living in misery? Even if the misery is delusional? Can transgender be fixed (like some people think gays can)?


The problem is that the underlying "misery" can be treated. This IS a permanent fix to a temporary problem.
 
2013-11-26 03:52:59 PM  

youmightberight: Um.

If you're born with balls your a guy.

No matter what parts you chop off.

Kinda like converting a vw bug to a "Ferrari"....still a bug.


You are wrong
 
2013-11-26 03:55:49 PM  

LordBeavis: Kahabut: Tunacrab: Elective genital mutilation does not make you the other sex.

We live in a sick society.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^SO FARKING MUCH THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wow, lots of hate for the transgendered community.  The Fark Libertarian tilt doesn't extend to the people that want to get their naughty bits changed?  Much like ghey people, I really don't give two craps what an adult wants to do with his/her naughty parts as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.  Yes, it's icky and not for me.  So is black licorice and blood pudding.  I'm not, however, going to condemn society as a whole because we allow people freedom.


We try and keep people from self harm all the time. It's called suicide prevention. This is just an extension of that policy.

You don't let crazy people hurt themselves.
 
2013-11-26 03:57:49 PM  

FrancoFile: Actually, I'd argue it's an extreme version of body dysmorphic disorder, possibly the most extreme.

I think the "I want to have my leg cut off" people might just be a smidge worse.


Good point. Though in fairness, people really, really try to stop them from doing that/help them through whatever is causing that. Even someone who thinks they're really fat when they're not, people try to help them/show them they're not.  Maybe it's more sensitive because transgender is also tied to sexual identity, but... there is an odd sort of "well, we all need to be okay with this" that absolutely isn't there for, say, someone who wants to have a leg removed.  (I suppose there are more transgender people than leg removal people, and that could be a contributing factor.)

I guess it's fair to say that questioning if this sort of surgery is a good thing or not isn't hate, it's just questioning.
 
2013-11-26 03:59:04 PM  

youmightberight: LordBeavis: Kahabut: Tunacrab: Elective genital mutilation does not make you the other sex.

We live in a sick society.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^SO FARKING MUCH THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wow, lots of hate for the transgendered community.  The Fark Libertarian tilt doesn't extend to the people that want to get their naughty bits changed?  Much like ghey people, I really don't give two craps what an adult wants to do with his/her naughty parts as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.  Yes, it's icky and not for me.  So is black licorice and blood pudding.  I'm not, however, going to condemn society as a whole because we allow people freedom.

We try and keep people from self harm all the time. It's called suicide prevention. This is just an extension of that policy.

You don't let crazy people hurt themselves.


That is about the dumbest thing said in this thread so far.  But, I responded so...
2/10
 
2013-11-26 04:04:46 PM  

KingKauff: Prank Call of Cthulhu: Yeah, like I've never heard of a marriage resulting in someone losing their balls before. Pffft.

I've been married 13 and 1/2 years and I know exactly where my testicals are: in my wife's purse.


Came here to say exactly these things, it has happened to me every time I got married.
 
2013-11-26 04:05:00 PM  

Buttknuckle: youmightberight: Um.

If you're born with balls your a guy.

No matter what parts you chop off.

Kinda like converting a vw bug to a "Ferrari"....still a bug.

You are wrong



Can you show me where a monkey or other animal has chewed/cut it's balls off for any reason other than a localized infection/damage?

We can take it all the way down to the x/y. But the fact remains that it's a disease of the mind.
 
2013-11-26 04:07:18 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Tunacrab: LordBeavis: Kahabut: Tunacrab: Elective genital mutilation does not make you the other sex.

We live in a sick society.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^SO FARKING MUCH THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wow, lots of hate for the transgendered community.  The Fark Libertarian tilt doesn't extend to the people that want to get their naughty bits changed?  Much like ghey people, I really don't give two craps what an adult wants to do with his/her naughty parts as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.  Yes, it's icky and not for me.  So is black licorice and blood pudding.  I'm not, however, going to condemn society as a whole because we allow people freedom.

It isn't hate... more like sadness at it's seemingly unquestioned acceptance. I'm not contending it should be illegal. If people want to do this to themselves, so be it... but it doesn't change the fact that it is a sick act.

People modify their bodies all the time for various reasons. Are tattoos sick? How about piercings? Implants?


Just because you can choose language that makes two things tangentially similar doesn't make them in any way equivalent; by that logic the fact that I eat hamburgers all the time means I should have no qualms about devouring a dead baby.
 
2013-11-26 04:09:00 PM  

KingKauff: Prank Call of Cthulhu: Yeah, like I've never heard of a marriage resulting in someone losing their balls before. Pffft.

I've been married 13 and 1/2 years and I know exactly where my testicals are: in my wife's purse.


"testicals"? Really?
 
2013-11-26 04:10:02 PM  

youmightberight: We can take it all the way down to the x/y. But the fact remains that it's a disease of the mind.


A false creation, proceeding from the heat-oppressed brain?
 
2013-11-26 04:12:25 PM  

youmightberight: Prophet of Loss: wildcardjack: I just realized choice isn't the right word, but it's still an ignored form of body dysmorphic disorder.

Is the pursuit of happiness objective or subjective? If someone is miserable with their balls attached and make an informed decision to remove them and is happy as a result is that not a better outcome than living in misery? Even if the misery is delusional? Can transgender be fixed (like some people think gays can)?

The problem is that the underlying "misery" can be treated. This IS a permanent fix to a temporary problem.


Treated? How so? Drugs to numb the pain? "Fixer" therapy?
 
2013-11-26 04:13:33 PM  

youmightberight: LordBeavis: Kahabut: Tunacrab: Elective genital mutilation does not make you the other sex.

We live in a sick society.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^SO FARKING MUCH THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wow, lots of hate for the transgendered community.  The Fark Libertarian tilt doesn't extend to the people that want to get their naughty bits changed?  Much like ghey people, I really don't give two craps what an adult wants to do with his/her naughty parts as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.  Yes, it's icky and not for me.  So is black licorice and blood pudding.  I'm not, however, going to condemn society as a whole because we allow people freedom.

We try and keep people from self harm all the time. It's called suicide prevention. This is just an extension of that policy.

You don't let crazy people hurt themselves.


I agree with your assertion that we don't let crazy people hurt themselves.  I don't think this falls into that category.  It's more like someone being gay.

I think that this isn't a step that most people do without much thought.  It seems like these two, along with most other transgendered people's stories, involve years of emotional hardship before they make the decision.  So, I don't judge them and view their actions of mutilating their bodies as their choice which wasn't undertaken lightly.  It's more humane than forcing them to live what they feel is a charade for their entire lives.
 
2013-11-26 04:18:28 PM  
1-media-cdn.foolz.us

They both found someone they can love. Good for them.
 
2013-11-26 04:37:50 PM  

groppet: Hey in about 20 years they could have just swapped naughty bits.


by then there would be too much wrinkle for the plastic surgeons to work with.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-11-26 04:44:10 PM  
Not my business? check
Not costing me money? check
Not hurting me? check

wassaproblem?
 
2013-11-26 04:47:04 PM  

Claude Ballse: They both found someone they can love. Good for them.



And when it comes down to it, that is all that matters.
 
2013-11-26 04:49:42 PM  
 
2013-11-26 04:50:06 PM  

Tunacrab: yeah yeah, its/it's before you crucify me.


Looks like you're used to climbing up on a cross all on your own.
 
2013-11-26 04:51:37 PM  

happydude45: LordBeavis: Kahabut: Tunacrab: Elective genital mutilation does not make you the other sex.

We live in a sick society.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^SO FARKING MUCH THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wow, lots of hate for the transgendered community.  The Fark Libertarian tilt doesn't extend to the people that want to get their naughty bits changed?  Much like ghey people, I really don't give two craps what an adult wants to do with his/her naughty parts as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.  Yes, it's icky and not for me.  So is black licorice and blood pudding.  I'm not, however, going to condemn society as a whole because we allow people freedom.

This. A true Libertarian believes that any adult of sound mind should be able to do whatever they wish to do, as long as they aren't harming another person. Cut your dick off, shoot smack, marry a duck, whatever. Leave people the fark alone and let them do what they want.


You were doing okay until you suggested bestiality.  There is a line to be drawn there.

In my view...  I tend to go with the trend of this thread so far.  If you're born a dude, you're a dude.  No matter what self mutilation you decide is right for you, it's not going to change that simple fact.  Not saying it should be illegal.  But there is something wrong with that sort of self mutilation.

Speaking as a guy myself, I can't understand why someone would want to do that.  It doesn't matter if you're gay or straight.  You still want to protect that package.
 
2013-11-26 04:58:22 PM  

durbnpoisn: happydude45: LordBeavis: Kahabut: Tunacrab: Elective genital mutilation does not make you the other sex.

We live in a sick society.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^SO FARKING MUCH THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wow, lots of hate for the transgendered community.  The Fark Libertarian tilt doesn't extend to the people that want to get their naughty bits changed?  Much like ghey people, I really don't give two craps what an adult wants to do with his/her naughty parts as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.  Yes, it's icky and not for me.  So is black licorice and blood pudding.  I'm not, however, going to condemn society as a whole because we allow people freedom.

This. A true Libertarian believes that any adult of sound mind should be able to do whatever they wish to do, as long as they aren't harming another person. Cut your dick off, shoot smack, marry a duck, whatever. Leave people the fark alone and let them do what they want.

You were doing okay until you suggested bestiality.  There is a line to be drawn there.

In my view...  I tend to go with the trend of this thread so far.  If you're born a dude, you're a dude.  No matter what self mutilation you decide is right for you, it's not going to change that simple fact.  Not saying it should be illegal.  But there is something wrong with that sort of self mutilation.

Speaking as a guy myself, I can't understand why someone would want to do that.  It doesn't matter if you're gay or straight.  You still want to protect that package.


Hah! I didn't even think about bestiality when I threw that duck line in there. Agreed.
 
2013-11-26 04:59:07 PM  

Loaf's Tray: Prophet of Loss: Tunacrab: LordBeavis: Kahabut: Tunacrab: Elective genital mutilation does not make you the other sex.

We live in a sick society.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^SO FARKING MUCH THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wow, lots of hate for the transgendered community.  The Fark Libertarian tilt doesn't extend to the people that want to get their naughty bits changed?  Much like ghey people, I really don't give two craps what an adult wants to do with his/her naughty parts as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.  Yes, it's icky and not for me.  So is black licorice and blood pudding.  I'm not, however, going to condemn society as a whole because we allow people freedom.

It isn't hate... more like sadness at it's seemingly unquestioned acceptance. I'm not contending it should be illegal. If people want to do this to themselves, so be it... but it doesn't change the fact that it is a sick act.

People modify their bodies all the time for various reasons. Are tattoos sick? How about piercings? Implants?

Just because you can choose language that makes two things tangentially similar doesn't make them in any way equivalent; by that logic the fact that I eat hamburgers all the time means I should have no qualms about devouring a dead baby.


1. Are you starving?

2. Was the baby already dead?

You miss ten meals in a row and your morality gets a bit slippery.
 
2013-11-26 04:59:49 PM  
What MythDragon said, except with less aging and meth use.

/came for, leaving, etc.
 
2013-11-26 05:03:45 PM  
Good for them. Fark you people who say they are sick for doing this. From their perspective they were BORN sick and are trying to get better. Your judgment is what's sick.
 
2013-11-26 05:34:39 PM  

LordBeavis: I think that this isn't a step that most people do without much thought. It seems like these two, along with most other transgendered people's stories, involve years of emotional hardship before they make the decision. So, I don't judge them and view their actions of mutilating their bodies as their choice which wasn't undertaken lightly. It's more humane than forcing them to live what they feel is a charade for their entire lives.


One of my friends came out as transgender earlier this year and underwent surgery.  I'll never know what exactly went through her mind when she made those decisions, or for the 28 years prior that she'd lived as a man, but you're right that it's not something that people undergo lightly.

A bit of advice to everyone in the thread who is horrified that someone might want to "cut off their own testicles": There is no way to crawl into another person's mind and know exactly what they think and feel, and thus there's no way to really understand what a gay person or a transgender person goes through (nor is it possible for them to really understand what it's like to be straight and/or cisgendered).  The best thing to do is to accept that you'll never understand it and stop worrying.  And if someone comes out to you as gay or transgender, keep in mind that they're still the same person as before.
 
2013-11-26 05:36:10 PM  
Transgender is not a girl,

Unless you regularly endure Menses, you're a fake
 
2013-11-26 05:58:04 PM  

youmightberight: Um.

If you're born with balls your a guy.

No matter what parts you chop off.

Kinda like converting a vw bug to a "Ferrari"....still a bug.


It's actually been found that a majority of trans* people seem to have a brain closer in structure to the gender that they're transitioning to. Plus there's intersex (a bit of both sexes) conditions that can lead to an almost, but not quite boy or girl.

That's the case with yours truly; I spent the years during and post-puberty really, really wishing I'd quit becoming so masculine; after a medical examination it was found that I have such a condition.. and after speaking with several qualified counselors, I was referred to an endocrinologist.

Cue a formerly confused, unhappy person becoming more active, getting involved, and overall stepping out of their shell for the first time ever.

But hey, don't let someone with first-hand knowledge change your oh-so-righteous opinion of that subject, which I gather you know little about.

After all, you need to get yourself off somehow. :)
 
2013-11-26 06:00:05 PM  

wildcardjack: If someone thinks they need to get thinner to extent they weigh everything that comes in or out of their body we call it body dysmorphic disorder. If someone thinks they need to mutilate their body to achieve the appearance of the other gender we call it their choice. Where does dysmorphia end and choice begin?


Choice ends where nosy busybodies seem to think that things which have no impact on their lives must be attributed to a mental disorder because it makes them feel better about themselves.
 
2013-11-26 06:03:17 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: Transgender is not a girl,

Unless you regularly endure Menses, you're a fake


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner%27s_syndrome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menopause

There's no bottom to your ignorance, is there?
 
2013-11-26 06:06:43 PM  

Tunacrab: George Babbitt: How does 'born that way' reconcile with justifying a sex change operation? If you are supposed to accept the way you were born, otherwise you end up living a lie. . .Isn't this manufacturing the lie same as a homosexual man or woman(CIS) who pretend to be hetero getting married to an opposite sex(CIS again)person? Even if they are not CIS, how does accepting the way you are born work out to a sex change operation, because if you were born with male physiology and self identify as female or trans or pan or whatever. . .getting an operation which is by it's very nature anti-accepting of how you were born . . .


/. . .

I agree.

You can identify with whatever gender you want, but these sex "reassignment" surgeries are borderline criminal acts by hack doctors. Transgendering is sick. It is self-mutilation, OK'd by our current normalize-everything-without-question liberal zeitgeist, executed by cosmetic surgeons willing to destroy someone's genitalia for a paycheck. Disgusting.


At birth, the doctors removed the bottom of what was supposed to be my labia, called it a "polyp", said "it's a boy" and considered the whole thing done.

I'd already been mutilated before I could have any choice about anything.

As a MtF trans* person, if I were to get the operation.. how would I be mutilating myself instead  of correcting a mistake?

I know it's too much to hope for, but I really am looking for a response that has at least some thought put into it....
 
2013-11-26 06:20:13 PM  

0z79: I know it's too much to hope for, but I really am looking for a response that has at least some thought put into it....


Would you mind addressing my post to which the person you responded to had originally opined?
 
2013-11-26 06:39:20 PM  
As a MtF trans* person, if I were to get the operation.. how would I be mutilating myself instead  of correcting a mistake?
 I would be fine with gender reassignment if it actually was gender reassignment, unfortunately we aren't and may never be at the stage where it really is that. It's sort of putting on a costume and pretending to be something you are not? It's unfortunate and heart breaking but they lied when they said anyone could be whatever they wanted to be.


Let me quote the Dani Bunten wiki page.

After a third failed marriage, Bunten, who had until then been living as male, transitioned to living as a woman. Bunten underwent sex reassignment surgery in November 1992 and afterwards kept a lower profile in the games industry. Bunten later regretted having surgery, finding that for her, the drawbacks of surgical transition outweighed the benefits, and wishing she had considered alternative approaches.She advised others considering a sex change not to proceed unless there was no alternative, and warned them of the cost, saying "Being my 'real self' could have included having a penis and including more femininity in whatever forms made sense. I didn't know that until too late and now I have to make the best of the life I've stumbled into. I just wish I would have tried more options before I jumped off the precipice.

My feelings on this do not apply to anyone who is not functional due to medical issues etc.
 
2013-11-26 06:42:24 PM  
jeffdo1: As a MtF trans* person, if I were to get the operation.. how would I be mutilating myself instead  of correcting a mistake?
 I would be fine with gender reassignment if it actually was gender reassignment, unfortunately we aren't and may never be at the stage where it really is that. It's sort of putting on a costume and pretending to be something you are not? It's unfortunate and heart breaking but they lied when they said anyone could be whatever they wanted to be.


Let me quote the Dani Bunten wiki page.

After a third failed marriage, Bunten, who had until then been living as male, transitioned to living as a woman. Bunten underwent sex reassignment surgery in November 1992 and afterwards kept a lower profile in the games industry. Bunten later regretted having surgery, finding that for her, the drawbacks of surgical transition outweighed the benefits, and wishing she had considered alternative approaches.She advised others considering a sex change not to proceed unless there was no alternative, and warned them of the cost, saying "Being my 'real self' could have included having a penis and including more femininity in whatever forms made sense. I didn't know that until too late and now I have to make the best of the life I've stumbled into. I just wish I would have tried more options before I jumped off the precipice.

My feelings on this do not apply to anyone who is not functional due to medical issues etc
.


Hey look, it's an anecdote!
 
2013-11-26 06:46:14 PM  
That's why I said "if" I get the surgery.

It's a fact that I was born intersexed and never wanted to be male, or that my sexual identity as a man never coalesced in the way it did as a woman - something is literally "in the way" when I'm with someone; but I'm barely a year along yet.

I -might- miss some things about being physiologically male, though I can't imagine what..

Those close to me have commented that I seem more complete and whole as a person than I ever have been, that I actually have a personality and (gasp!) a SENSE OF HUMOR  now.. knowing that is enough for now.
 
2013-11-26 07:14:51 PM  
Friendly neighborhood post-op MtF here. Y'know, I transitioned very publicly on Fark and TF almost a decade ago. I remember getting a lot of support and having some awesome conversations with a lot of people here. Reading through this thread reminds me why I almost never come to the main page anymore. Damn, that's a lot of judgement, folks.

Transitioning was the best thing I could have possibly done for myself. Zero regrets.
 
2013-11-26 07:22:43 PM  
Another transgender thread, yay! ;)

I think the disconnect, at least for some people, comes down to this: It makes as much sense to a lot of us for a person to say "I was born the wrong gender" and chop off their wiener as it does for them to "I was born with too many legs" and chop off one of their legs. I do my best to assume that gender disorder is a real thing but I absolutely cannot comprehend it. Intellectually I think that people who want to switch gender are probably more sane than people who want to amputate a leg but I can understand both conditions not at all. Both are just completely alien and foreign to me.

That is completely IMHO. Please do carry on.
 
2013-11-26 07:33:40 PM  
I'm so glad no one in my family has a problem with the OEM genitalia. And yes, there is lid for every pot. They're quite a match.
 
2013-11-26 07:41:04 PM  

0z79: Tunacrab: George Babbitt: How does 'born that way' reconcile with justifying a sex change operation? If you are supposed to accept the way you were born, otherwise you end up living a lie. . .Isn't this manufacturing the lie same as a homosexual man or woman(CIS) who pretend to be hetero getting married to an opposite sex(CIS again)person? Even if they are not CIS, how does accepting the way you are born work out to a sex change operation, because if you were born with male physiology and self identify as female or trans or pan or whatever. . .getting an operation which is by it's very nature anti-accepting of how you were born . . .


/. . .

I agree.

You can identify with whatever gender you want, but these sex "reassignment" surgeries are borderline criminal acts by hack doctors. Transgendering is sick. It is self-mutilation, OK'd by our current normalize-everything-without-question liberal zeitgeist, executed by cosmetic surgeons willing to destroy someone's genitalia for a paycheck. Disgusting.

At birth, the doctors removed the bottom of what was supposed to be my labia, called it a "polyp", said "it's a boy" and considered the whole thing done.

I'd already been mutilated before I could have any choice about anything.

As a MtF trans* person, if I were to get the operation.. how would I be mutilating myself instead  of correcting a mistake?

I know it's too much to hope for, but I really am looking for a response that has at least some thought put into it....


It's really a shame that a legitimate case like yours is mixed in with all the crazies
 
2013-11-26 08:05:10 PM  

Novart: 0z79: Tunacrab: George Babbitt: How does 'born that way' reconcile with justifying a sex change operation? If you are supposed to accept the way you were born, otherwise you end up living a lie. . .Isn't this manufacturing the lie same as a homosexual man or woman(CIS) who pretend to be hetero getting married to an opposite sex(CIS again)person? Even if they are not CIS, how does accepting the way you are born work out to a sex change operation, because if you were born with male physiology and self identify as female or trans or pan or whatever. . .getting an operation which is by it's very nature anti-accepting of how you were born . . .


/. . .

I agree.

You can identify with whatever gender you want, but these sex "reassignment" surgeries are borderline criminal acts by hack doctors. Transgendering is sick. It is self-mutilation, OK'd by our current normalize-everything-without-question liberal zeitgeist, executed by cosmetic surgeons willing to destroy someone's genitalia for a paycheck. Disgusting.

At birth, the doctors removed the bottom of what was supposed to be my labia, called it a "polyp", said "it's a boy" and considered the whole thing done.

I'd already been mutilated before I could have any choice about anything.

As a MtF trans* person, if I were to get the operation.. how would I be mutilating myself instead  of correcting a mistake?

I know it's too much to hope for, but I really am looking for a response that has at least some thought put into it....

It's really a shame that a legitimate case like yours is mixed in with all the crazies


Yeppers...

One thing that made it difficult for me to find the right help pre-transition, just as it is for many other intersex people; having the wrong hormones going through your brain can lead to a lot of mental health issues, which develop their own co-morbidities, which act as a red herring to the underlying problem.

Thankfully, they're getting better and better at picking out those who are screwed up because they need to transition, as opposed to those who only want to transition because they're screwed up.
 
2013-11-26 08:19:01 PM  
I see a lot of "Manley men" have come out to tell everyone something about gender. Of course it seems obvious if they couldn't find their penis they wouldn't know if they were a boy or a girl and as for men heh, seems obvious they aren't.
 
2013-11-26 08:47:15 PM  

Loaf's Tray: Prophet of Loss: Tunacrab: LordBeavis: Kahabut: Tunacrab: Elective genital mutilation does not make you the other sex.

We live in a sick society.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^SO FARKING MUCH THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wow, lots of hate for the transgendered community.  The Fark Libertarian tilt doesn't extend to the people that want to get their naughty bits changed?  Much like ghey people, I really don't give two craps what an adult wants to do with his/her naughty parts as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.  Yes, it's icky and not for me.  So is black licorice and blood pudding.  I'm not, however, going to condemn society as a whole because we allow people freedom.

It isn't hate... more like sadness at it's seemingly unquestioned acceptance. I'm not contending it should be illegal. If people want to do this to themselves, so be it... but it doesn't change the fact that it is a sick act.

People modify their bodies all the time for various reasons. Are tattoos sick? How about piercings? Implants?

Just because you can choose language that makes two things tangentially similar doesn't make them in any way equivalent; by that logic the fact that I eat hamburgers all the time means I should have no qualms about devouring a dead baby.


Your example is entirely subjective. People do extreme things to themselves and still live rich full lives. If the modification makes those lives happier then who are we to deny them that happiness?
 
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