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(RealClearPolitics)   Mark Halperin, Senior Political Analyst at Time Magazine and MSNBC: OMG there ARE death panels in the ACA. "It's built into the plan. It's not like a guess or like a judgment. That's going to be part of how costs are controlled"   (realclearpolitics.com) divider line 74
    More: Interesting, Mark Halperin, MSNBC, obamacare, death panels, political analyst  
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1709 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Nov 2013 at 12:50 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-26 12:40:52 PM  
Can I just assume this is a bullshiat headline?
 
2013-11-26 12:52:51 PM  
Newsmax TV?
 
2013-11-26 12:53:55 PM  
To the Tea Party Derp brigade, apparently not paying for futile treatments which will not extend life any more, and instead being frank and honest with a patient about their chances and offering hospice care and palliative therapies is a "Death Panel".

I wonder how many of these people who spout off such nonsense would revel in the life of a medicare-funded nursing home while on a ventilator and peg tube keeping them alive.
 
2013-11-26 12:54:18 PM  
DNRTFA yet, but as a guess this just means Obamacare didn't put an end to the private health insurance death panels that already existed.
 
2013-11-26 12:54:29 PM  
I can't play the video because I'm at work.  What part of the ACA does this guy think are built in death panels?  I assume it's crap, but I want to know just how loudly I have to laugh at the guy.
 
2013-11-26 12:54:46 PM  
Oh, that poor chicken.
 
2013-11-26 12:54:50 PM  

Mentat: Can I just assume this is a bullshiat headline?


Any time you those two words, you know the article you're about to read is bullshiat.


/Mark Halperin
 
2013-11-26 12:55:12 PM  
[Real Clear Politics]

Uh... no?
 
2013-11-26 12:56:11 PM  

EyeballKid: Mentat: Can I just assume this is a bullshiat headline?

Any time you readthose two words, you know the article you're about to read is bullshiat.


/Mark Halperin


/ftfy
/If I were a conservative columnist, not only would I not have to correct that error, I could accuse anybody correcting me of having a bias.
 
2013-11-26 12:56:12 PM  

Mithiwithi: DNRTFA yet, but as a guess this just means Obamacare didn't put an end to the private health insurance death panels that already existed.


Private sector death panels are blessed by Baby Republican Jesus.
 
2013-11-26 12:57:51 PM  
This is Obama's Pearl Harbor.


/Seriously? This again? Get it, black, etc.
 
2013-11-26 12:57:51 PM  
emptylighthouse.com
 
2013-11-26 12:58:12 PM  

aaronx: Oh, that poor chicken.


Bawk bawk means "kill me."
 
2013-11-26 12:59:30 PM  
Obamacare hooked my neighbor's darling 94 year old grandma up to a life-sustaining machine powered by squirrels but then didn't feed them ever again. They scurried enough power for 6 hours but then his sweet little grandma passed away. I read it in an email. Tragic.
 
2013-11-26 01:00:01 PM  

llortcM_yllort: I can't play the video because I'm at work.  What part of the ACA does this guy think are built in death panels?  I assume it's crap, but I want to know just how loudly I have to laugh at the guy.


He doesn't say. It's built into the bill because he says it is, because death panels are a necessary thing that has to happen.

/no it doesn't make a lot of sense
 
2013-11-26 01:01:05 PM  
That guy went on NewsMax TV? Eww....
 
2013-11-26 01:01:12 PM  
Everyone knows that the current, private sector death panels we have are much more efficient than government death panels could ever be.
 
2013-11-26 01:01:17 PM  
Even if I assume that the article is 100% fact, exactly as written (which it is NOT), I don't understand how a rational line can't be drawn when all medical evidence says that the outlook is fixed. Making a dying person comfortable (even if they're full of drugs) is a fantastic use of resources (with the bonus of saving money on unnecessary treatment). There are far worse things than death.
 
2013-11-26 01:01:28 PM  
Well I'm convinced by that lengthy and informative article.
 
2013-11-26 01:03:06 PM  
All we need is to declare a War Against Death and put an end to dying forever!
 
2013-11-26 01:03:31 PM  

The Most Uninteresting Man in the World: That guy went on NewsMax TV? Eww....


Anywhere  the steely disapproving glare of Willie Geist cannot be felt.

www.washingtonpost.com
 
2013-11-26 01:06:09 PM  
I do find it funny that Teabaggers are afraid of death panels when THAT'S WHAT WE HAD BEFORE THE ACA.
 
2013-11-26 01:08:26 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Everyone knows that the current, private sector death panels we have are much more efficient than government death panels could ever be.


That's secretly what they're angry about.
 
2013-11-26 01:10:02 PM  
Any time that there's somebody helping to pay for your medical bills, there's going to be someone looking over your shoulder asking, "is this procedure REALLY necessary / is this procedure too experimental?"

It doesn't matter if the person helping to pay is the government or an insurance company.

The only way to escape the "death panels" is by being rich enough to pay for any damn medical treatment you may need or desire.
 
2013-11-26 01:14:08 PM  

busy chillin': Obamacare hooked my neighbor's darling 94 year old grandma up to a life-sustaining machine powered by squirrels but then didn't feed them ever again. They scurried enough power for 6 hours but then his sweet little grandma passed away. I read it in an email. Tragic.


Even more tragic was that her unborn baby was also lost.
 
2013-11-26 01:14:18 PM  

The Most Uninteresting Man in the World: All we need is to declare a War Against Death and put an end to dying forever!


I hear he sucks at Battleship.
 
2013-11-26 01:14:25 PM  
"death panel" == "wahhh I can only get three private jets this year cause the mean widdle government wouldn't accept my bullshiat claims about the $2000 dose drug and suggested a generic that does the same thing"
 
2013-11-26 01:16:45 PM  
Okay, I keep seeing headlines about Time Magazine's Mark Halperin saying this, but after five pages of Google searches, I found nothing specific to Time with Halperin and this topic. The new's is only from right wing sites. So, I went to Time Magazine and searched for "Death Panels," looking for the newest articles. The closest thing I can find is a September article mocking Palin for still believing in death panels, so I am guessing that it isn't "Time Magazine's" Halperin that is pushing this point. I am thinking it's guy with a book going on right wing media to push a point that wouldn't pass the smell test for Time Magazine.
 
2013-11-26 01:17:58 PM  

Fart_Machine: The Most Uninteresting Man in the World: All we need is to declare a War Against Death and put an end to dying forever!

I hear he sucks at Battleship.


rossvross.files.wordpress.com


He sucks at electric football so bad they're calling for Tim Tebow to replace him.
 
2013-11-26 01:24:10 PM  
Mark Halpern has never been right about anything, though he usually contains his derp to faulty polling
 
2013-11-26 01:26:21 PM  

Tman144: Newsmax TV?


Fark TV without the glamour.
 
2013-11-26 01:26:21 PM  
Hate to break it to the Tea Partiers but there are already death panels in the private insurance market.  The wife runs into this all the time.  Some doctor wants to try an experimental treatment as a last ditch effort because nothing else is working.  Insurance company won't cover it because it is experimental.  Patient calls yelling at her because they are going to let her die rather than pay for her experimental treatment that the doctor says just might work.
 
2013-11-26 01:27:10 PM  

pueblonative: Fart_Machine: The Most Uninteresting Man in the World: All we need is to declare a War Against Death and put an end to dying forever!

I hear he sucks at Battleship.

[rossvross.files.wordpress.com image 400x216]


He sucks at electric football so bad they're calling for Tim Tebow to replace him.


Why is Rick Scott playing electric football?


Anyway, as someone who hit a lifetime cap on my insurance after my first cancer treatment and the insurance company said no to any further treatment, I have very little pity for any insurance company.

/csb..when told i needed another surgery and radiation, the Humana "cost rep" said I should just wait it out because sometimes tumors go away, but under no circumstances would they pay.

/fark i wish we had single payer
 
2013-11-26 01:28:47 PM  

eagles95: Anyway, as someone who hit a lifetime cap on my insurance after my first cancer treatment and the insurance company said no to any further treatment, I have very little pity for any insurance company.

/csb..when told i needed another surgery and radiation, the Humana "cost rep" said I should just wait it out because sometimes tumors go away, but under no circumstances would they pay.

/fark i wish we had single payer


But I've never had cancer or hit my lifetime benefits so everything is working just fine for me, why should be have to change for you???

/I'm not serious, but that's about the extent of their argument
 
2013-11-26 01:32:23 PM  

Mithiwithi: DNRTFA yet, but as a guess this just means Obamacare didn't put an end to the private health insurance death panels that already existed.


Do people really think the supply is infinite?
 
2013-11-26 01:33:42 PM  
Sorry, folks, he actually said it.  It'll be worth watching Morning Joe tomorrow just to see how he tries to wiggle his way out of this.
 
2013-11-26 01:39:26 PM  

Pincy: eagles95: Anyway, as someone who hit a lifetime cap on my insurance after my first cancer treatment and the insurance company said no to any further treatment, I have very little pity for any insurance company.

/csb..when told i needed another surgery and radiation, the Humana "cost rep" said I should just wait it out because sometimes tumors go away, but under no circumstances would they pay.

/fark i wish we had single payer

But I've never had cancer or hit my lifetime benefits so everything is working just fine for me, why should be have to change for you???

/I'm not serious, but that's about the extent of their argument


I know....my in-laws say the same thing. I gently remind them their daughter would be a single parent perhaps on some sort of government assistance sucking money from hard working boot strappy Americans. Not to mention their only grandchild would be raised without a father and we all know that stats dont lie about single parent households and how kids traditionally do better with a father and mother. Usually her dad will see my side. Her mom just says she hates that (sheriff is near)
 
2013-11-26 01:42:46 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Any time that there's somebody helping to pay for your medical bills, there's going to be someone looking over your shoulder asking, "is this procedure REALLY necessary / is this procedure too experimental?"

It doesn't matter if the person helping to pay is the government or an insurance company.

The only way to escape the "death panels" is by being rich enough to pay for any damn medical treatment you may need or desire.


And even with that, you're going to eventually die.
 
2013-11-26 01:48:15 PM  
Keeping old people around long after they have any usefulness never made any sense. So I support the Obama death panels.
 
2013-11-26 01:53:12 PM  
It's still real to me, damn it!
 
2013-11-26 01:53:39 PM  
If I remember correctly, Texas is the only state which actually has death panels.

If you go into a hospital with a condition that the hospital cannot treat or fix, beyond palliative care - i.e., a major stroke, stage 4 stomach cancer, something really heinous with either long-term complications or a quick end in sight - a panel of five doctors can be convened to review your case. If they agree that the hospital cannot make any substantial improvement in your condition, they can start a ten-day clock for you to find someplace else to be - a rehab hospital, hospice care, at-home nursing care, but something somebody else can do rather than the hospital. At the end of those ten days, whether or not you've found somewhere to be, they will discharge you, and you're out of there.

You can go look up the Baby Sun case from late 2004/early 2005 if you don't believe me. Here's one link:

Texas law allows hospitals to discontinue life-sustaining care, even if a patient's family members disagree. A doctor's recommendation must be approved by a hospital's ethics committee, and the family must be given 10 days from written notice of the decision to try and locate another facility for the patient.

Of course Governor Perry doesn't have a problem with this (the law was passed under his administration), because it shifts cost of care to the patient and away from the state - in a state where one in four people have no insurance, again thanks to Governor Perry.

Anyone who thinks Rep. Alan Grayson wasn't right about the Republican health  care plan - "don't get sick, and if you do, die quickly" - can look at Texas for its continuing implementation.

(On reflection, Alaska may be the other state with death panels like this, but I can't find a link right now.)
 
2013-11-26 02:01:49 PM  
i194.photobucket.com
 
2013-11-26 02:04:45 PM  

DeaH: Okay, I keep seeing headlines about Time Magazine's Mark Halperin saying this, but after five pages of Google searches, I found nothing specific to Time with Halperin and this topic. The new's is only from right wing sites. So, I went to Time Magazine and searched for "Death Panels," looking for the newest articles. The closest thing I can find is a September article mocking Palin for still believing in death panels, so I am guessing that it isn't "Time Magazine's" Halperin that is pushing this point. I am thinking it's guy with a book going on right wing media to push a point that wouldn't pass the smell test for Time Magazine.


He supposedly said it on a right wing radio show while flogging his book about the 2012 campaign.

I just want there to be a generally understood definition of a "death panel" because the "FW:FW:FW: If you are 71 years or older and get sick you have to go in front of a group of bureaucrats to justify why you deserve to continue to receive Medicare or be left to die." thing is what makes the whole thing BS. Palin's Weenerss claimed that a board was going to convene to determine if special needs children like her son should be allowed to live. Again, BS.

Here are the only two things in the bill that can be categorized as a "death panel" if someone thinks they exist:

- The Medicare Independent Payment Advisory Board will begin scoring procedures for cost-effectiveness and that will factor into Medicare coverage of such procedures. Note this is cost-effectiveness, not cheapness: if a procedure adds years to a Medicare enrollee's life it would have to cost a king's ransom not to meet the approval standards. However, procedures that add minutes or hours to an ill individual's lifespan (or worse, add no more to their life than a placebo) are going to likely no longer be covered. This isn't on a per-case basis: all enrollees will be held to that standard.
- Medicare will begin paying for doctors visits where enrollees are there to discuss filling out an advanced health care directive (better known as a living will.) This is a standard form that allows you to determine what procedures you would want done in the event of an emergency rather than leaving it to doctors and your next of kin to try to determine what you would want. Note that nothing stops you from saying in an advanced health care directive that you want ever medical option available exhausted and to keep you plugged in even if you're in a severe coma with no hope of recovery. However, it allows you to determine if there are procedures you don't want to attempt given their drawbacks and if there is a point you would want to be let go.

If you classify either as a death panel, please explain to me how continuing the previous policy makes enrollees better off?
 
2013-11-26 02:09:45 PM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: llortcM_yllort: I can't play the video because I'm at work.  What part of the ACA does this guy think are built in death panels?  I assume it's crap, but I want to know just how loudly I have to laugh at the guy.

He doesn't say. It's built into the bill because he says it is, because death panels are a necessary thing that has to happen.

/no it doesn't make a lot of sense



The ACA contains language about "voluntary advance care planning" - where you can work with your doctor to develop a living will / "advance directive" to spell out how you want to be treated if you become unable to make decisions while under care.

So if you and your doctor decide that treatment should stop under some circumstance... death panels, I guess?
=Smidge=
 
2013-11-26 02:15:19 PM  
The section of the bill he's referring to actually does NOT contain what he's claiming.  He's either willfully or ignorantly mis-reading it.

I fully recognize the necessity of government administration of health care making determinations about what must be covered, and I assume that in most cases what isn't a "must" will very likely not be covered.  That means you're on your own to pay for it if you want it and that may result in you not getting what you want and maybe you'll end up dying.  But that's in no way different from what happens right now - it's just that now you the public has no recourse, but under a government-administered program if 50million people want it covered then there's a way to do something about it.
 
2013-11-26 02:48:19 PM  

inglixthemad: Rapmaster2000: Everyone knows that the current, private sector death panels we have are much more efficient than government death panels could ever be.

That's secretly what they're angry about.


Hopefully, the govt death panels won't get bonuses.
 
2013-11-26 02:59:09 PM  

ohdoublereally: inglixthemad: Rapmaster2000: Everyone knows that the current, private sector death panels we have are much more efficient than government death panels could ever be.

That's secretly what they're angry about.

Hopefully, the govt death panels won't get bonuses.


There's the big difference.
 
2013-11-26 03:02:05 PM  

urbangirl: Sorry, folks, he actually said it.  It'll be worth watching Morning Joe tomorrow just to see how he tries to wiggle his way out of this.


NO HE DIDN'T!

dipettamortgage.com
 
2013-11-26 03:03:48 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Everyone knows that the current, private sector death panels we have are much more efficient than government death panels could ever be.


I think you'd have more success arguing/litigating with the former.
 
2013-11-26 03:07:27 PM  
 
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