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(WLWT)   Man files claims on seven empty homes in single day. "I have a team of people who go out and make sure the house is empty. If it's empty, change the locks"   (wlwt.com) divider line 205
    More: Asinine, Springdale  
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14430 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Nov 2013 at 10:02 AM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-26 09:29:44 AM
FTA: Johnson obtained a copy of the indictment, upon which Carr wrote across the front "rejected" and "offer not accepted."

Why do I get the feeling that the words "sovereign citizen" have passed this man's lips at least daily for the last 10 years?
 
2013-11-26 09:30:23 AM
A little light on details.

The "quiet title" business may be a real thing.  I don't know.  But I would think you'd have to prove the owner doesn't hold the title or hasn't paid the mortgage.

In any event, now I'm eyeing a place in mom's neighborhood!  That place is definitely abandoned.  They're not just on vacation.
 
2013-11-26 09:31:09 AM

factoryconnection: FTA: Johnson obtained a copy of the indictment, upon which Carr wrote across the front "rejected" and "offer not accepted."

Why do I get the feeling that the words "sovereign citizen" have passed this man's lips at least daily for the last 10 years?


I hope he ends owning a jail cell.
 
2013-11-26 09:36:27 AM

Diogenes: A little light on details.

The "quiet title" business may be a real thing.  I don't know.  But I would think you'd have to prove the owner doesn't hold the title or hasn't paid the mortgage.

In any event, now I'm eyeing a place in mom's neighborhood!  That place is definitely abandoned.  They're not just on vacation.


Time to get your "team" together to go change the locks and post your "no trespassing" sign in the yard.
 
2013-11-26 09:41:20 AM

new_york_monty: Diogenes: A little light on details.

The "quiet title" business may be a real thing.  I don't know.  But I would think you'd have to prove the owner doesn't hold the title or hasn't paid the mortgage.

In any event, now I'm eyeing a place in mom's neighborhood!  That place is definitely abandoned.  They're not just on vacation.

Time to get your "team" together to go change the locks and post your "no trespassing" sign in the yard.


It will still be anything but a "free house."  Place is a mess.  Garage door is off the rails and barely hanging on.  I'd hate to think what critters got in.  But still cheaper than buying outright!

It's right across the street from the HOA president's house, which is farking awesome.  That lady is a grade A biatch.  My mom keeps excellent care of her house, but will get dinged by that bony-assed biatch if she gets bird poop on her mailbox.  (This is due to a long standing "disagreement" where Mom wouldn't back Mitzy for reelection.)

It delights me to no end that she has to stare at that dilapidated mess every time she has to go out and walk her annoying yappy accessory dogs.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-11-26 09:45:53 AM
"Quiet title" is a type of lawsuit used to settle disputes over land ownership. I move into your house and sue you to prove you really own it. If you don't respond, I may win by default.

As a document filed in a registry of deeds, "quiet title" is probably a legal nuisance. I doubt it gives anybody ownership. The reason to create a nuisance is, title insurers won't cover the property until the claim is resolved. The guy who filed it will ask for some money to make it go away.
 
2013-11-26 09:47:53 AM

ZAZ: "Quiet title" is a type of lawsuit used to settle disputes over land ownership. I move into your house and sue you to prove you really own it. If you don't respond, I may win by default.

As a document filed in a registry of deeds, "quiet title" is probably a legal nuisance. I doubt it gives anybody ownership. The reason to create a nuisance is, title insurers won't cover the property until the claim is resolved. The guy who filed it will ask for some money to make it go away.


Evil, but clever.
 
2013-11-26 09:47:56 AM

Diogenes: The "quiet title" business may be a real thing.


I don't know about other states, but in PA a Quiet Title action is used to remove liens and judgments from a property after you already have a deed. There's no way to legally own a property through the Quiet Title process alone, and, without the owner's consent, the only way you could do it would be through some sort of foreclosure, tax sale, court action or conservatorship. The closest thing I can think of to what's being described here would be a Quit Claim, but IANAL and that's not even the same thing.
 
2013-11-26 09:56:58 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Diogenes: The "quiet title" business may be a real thing.

I don't know about other states, but in PA a Quiet Title action is used to remove liens and judgments from a property after you already have a deed. There's no way to legally own a property through the Quiet Title process alone, and, without the owner's consent, the only way you could do it would be through some sort of foreclosure, tax sale, court action or conservatorship. The closest thing I can think of to what's being described here would be a Quit Claim, but IANAL and that's not even the same thing.


Then I suspect it's what ZAZ is saying.  They guy doesn't want the property.  He's exploiting the process - correctly or incorrectly, notwithstanding - to get it all tied up so he can get paid off to make it go away.
 
2013-11-26 10:04:57 AM
Jesus Christ, what an asshole.
 
2013-11-26 10:06:31 AM
So how come this guy hasn't been shot yet? THANKS, OBAMA!
 
2013-11-26 10:07:04 AM
Shoot, shovel, then STFU.

farking evil squatters. You want my house? I'll make sure you've got 6 feet of land all to yourself...
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-11-26 10:07:24 AM
Angry Drunk Bureaucrat

So I record a lien saying I did work on the house. Just filing the lien will make owner financing impossible (like if you want to borrow money to hire a lawyer to fight me). Lenders and buyers want totally undisputed ownership. Then I sue to foreclose on the lien. If the case goes to trial I lose bad, because it will be obvious I'm lying. But I'm willing to settle out of court and release the lien for a fraction of what the property is worth.
 
2013-11-26 10:07:38 AM

Valiente: So how come this guy hasn't been shot yet? THANKS, OBAMA!


No Stand your Ground laws in Ohio?
 
2013-11-26 10:08:55 AM

Diogenes: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Diogenes: The "quiet title" business may be a real thing.

I don't know about other states, but in PA a Quiet Title action is used to remove liens and judgments from a property after you already have a deed. There's no way to legally own a property through the Quiet Title process alone, and, without the owner's consent, the only way you could do it would be through some sort of foreclosure, tax sale, court action or conservatorship. The closest thing I can think of to what's being described here would be a Quit Claim, but IANAL and that's not even the same thing.

Then I suspect it's what ZAZ is saying.  They guy doesn't want the property.  He's exploiting the process - correctly or incorrectly, notwithstanding - to get it all tied up so he can get paid off to make it go away.


As long as the *real* owner of the house doesn't get into the house, pull a "He's coming right for me!" on the perpetrator, and end up shooting him dead, that is.  People are extra crazy these days.  One of these days, it could happen.
 
2013-11-26 10:09:05 AM
..........and this is why every state should adopt castle doctrine.
 
2013-11-26 10:09:19 AM
a guy tried to do this to my brother and i on some rental property we have. my brother showed him his 9 millimeter, the guy couldnt leave fast enough
 
2013-11-26 10:09:19 AM
1. Come home from vacation
2. Find locks changed, house occupied by this guy.
3. Shoot him dead for home invasion/burglary.
4. Profit

/Castle doctrine FTW
 
2013-11-26 10:09:32 AM
So, if I do actually own the property but he "quiet title's" it, can't I loudly shoot him with a 45 under castle doctrine?
 
2013-11-26 10:09:58 AM
I know a nice little plot of dirt in a cemetery he can lay claim to.
 
2013-11-26 10:10:57 AM
I don't understand how this can't be resolved with a baseball bat.
 
2013-11-26 10:10:58 AM
xanadian:

As long as the *real* owner of the house doesn't get into the house, pull a "He's coming right for me!" on the perpetrator, and end up shooting him dead, that is.  People are extra crazy these days.  One of these days, it could happen.

And Bingo was his name-o.
 
2013-11-26 10:12:15 AM
Gah, stupid journalist, you couldn't find a way to include in your article at any point how long that family was away from their home.  not that it in any way justifies this asshole, but are we talking a two week vacation here or a six month trip to get Gram's affair in order.
 
2013-11-26 10:12:17 AM
Why do I get the feeling that the words "sovereign citizen" have passed this man's lips at least daily for the last 10 years?


Fact is he's in possession of 7 houses.
 
2013-11-26 10:12:36 AM
Someone needs a good cock punch.
 
2013-11-26 10:12:41 AM
Doesn't every state have a law regarding adverse possession?
 
2013-11-26 10:13:25 AM

stevie1der: Gah, stupid journalist, you couldn't find a way to include in your article at any point how long that family was away from their home.  not that it in any way justifies this asshole, but are we talking a two week vacation here or a six month trip to get Gram's affair in order.


It doesn't matter.
 
2013-11-26 10:14:14 AM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: Doesn't every state have a law regarding adverse possession?


More big government?  At least Bobby Jindal does his own exorcisms.
 
2013-11-26 10:14:34 AM
PROTIP: Ohio has been a Castle Doctrine state since 9/9/2008:  http://lsc.state.oh.us/coderev/sen127.nsf/Senate+Bill+Number/0184?Ope n Document
 
2013-11-26 10:15:01 AM

ZAZ: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat

So I record a lien saying I did work on the house. Just filing the lien will make owner financing impossible (like if you want to borrow money to hire a lawyer to fight me). Lenders and buyers want totally undisputed ownership. Then I sue to foreclose on the lien. If the case goes to trial I lose bad, because it will be obvious I'm lying. But I'm willing to settle out of court and release the lien for a fraction of what the property is worth.


How is that legal?
 
2013-11-26 10:15:44 AM

blatz514: Jesus Christ, what an asshole.

 
2013-11-26 10:16:50 AM
factoryconnection: FTA: Johnson obtained a copy of the indictment, upon which Carr wrote across the front "rejected" and "offer not accepted."
 
Why do I get the feeling that the words "sovereign citizen" have passed this man's lips at least daily for the last 10 years?

Almost definitely.  FTFA:  "They'll come together as groups to receive training, how to conduct some of these schemes from a financial standpoint, to understand what they consider the common law and how they can use that common law for their sovereign purposes," Cornelius said. "I'm not familiar (with) any cases where it's held up in court. I think that it holds up the process of the court's decision."  Sounds like the very definition of these nutjobs, and it'll end about as successfully for him as it does for any of the others.  Cargo cult law morons, the lot of them.
 
2013-11-26 10:16:59 AM
Oh farking wonderful, this is the town next to mine. Hell, all of these towns are 5 minutes from my house.  This is farking great.
I really hope I don't have to deal with this shiat.
 
2013-11-26 10:17:44 AM
Subby could have saved fark a few bytes and just made the headline "yep, Ohio."

/thinking ohio needs it's own tag more than any other potential state.
/florida of the north
 
2013-11-26 10:17:58 AM

Diogenes: A little light on details.

The "quiet title" business may be a real thing.  I don't know.  But I would think you'd have to prove the owner doesn't hold the title or hasn't paid the mortgage.

In any event, now I'm eyeing a place in mom's neighborhood!  That place is definitely abandoned.  They're not just on vacation.


Does your city not have the "role" (I do it in French, I really don't know what it is in English) online? You can look up any address and pull up the information as well as the latest evaluation and tax bill.

For Montreal it looks like this

http://evalweb.ville.montreal.qc.ca/Role2014actu/recherche.asp
 
2013-11-26 10:18:51 AM
Is he physically living in the house?  Can you not do the exact same thing to him?
 
KIA
2013-11-26 10:18:55 AM
Thief = thief.  The police and prosecutors normally say this type of thing is a civil matter, but in this instance, it looks like conspiracy to defraud, larceny by trick and a variety of other charges that could be brought if the prosecutors are brought on board.
 
2013-11-26 10:18:56 AM
Family sounds poor. Imagine if someone tried this with a 1%er's summer villa or Aspen ski lodge. Directly to jail, do not pass go.

/wake up sheeple!
//do your own research!
///stand your ground!
 
2013-11-26 10:19:02 AM
Yeah, unless you've got a quitclaim you don't have legal claim to shiat, unless the owner takes so long to respond that you gain squatters' rights (which generally means you've been living there without legal contest for  years).  "No one was there on one particular day" is not a valid reason to claim a property, actual abandoned property generally reverts to debt holders, nearest blood relative, or the state (or city) to which back property tax is owed, in that order.

"Some random jackass" is not in the queue to gain abandoned property (unless they buy it from the debt-holder, etc that gets it) and in fact this dude is about to get hit with felony fraud charges if not grand theft and extortion the moment a lawyer with half a brain cell in his head picks up this article.

There are  way more lawyers than paying clients in the US, and this kind of open-and-shut shiat with high damages attached is farking catnip to the poor underemployed bastards.  These families are going to have a dozen folks knocking at their door offering to work free for a cut of the damages within days, I'd bet.

Valiente: So how come this guy hasn't been shot yet? THANKS, OBAMA!


Now that would be a funny end to the story.  Technically since he's on someone else's property and refusing to leave most states' castle doctrine says offing him is completely legal.

I mean, someone dying is terrible, but in this case schadenfreude would balance it out pretty thoroughly.  Karma's a biatch sometimes.
 
2013-11-26 10:20:53 AM
Is it just me or is the article extremely lazy journalism?  We get that the guy is a douche and that the poor family has had a bad year, but why are they scared of this guy?  Are they back in their house?  Did they get threats in the middle of the night?  When's the court date?  Where's the legal analyst explaining who's right and who's wrong here?
 
2013-11-26 10:21:54 AM

blatz514: Jesus Christ, what an asshole.


This is one of those statements where comma placement is important.
 
2013-11-26 10:22:07 AM

foo monkey: stevie1der: Gah, stupid journalist, you couldn't find a way to include in your article at any point how long that family was away from their home.  not that it in any way justifies this asshole, but are we talking a two week vacation here or a six month trip to get Gram's affair in order.

It doesn't matter.


To an extent it does.  At the very least, a 6-month trip would make it more reasonable to assume the house was actually abandoned.  He doesn't get the house either way, his understanding of adverse possession is totally wrong, and he's still a jackass, but the consequences for him are different if he genuinely believed they were abandoned than if he waited for people to go to work that day.
 
2013-11-26 10:22:30 AM

stevetherobot: ZAZ: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat

So I record a lien saying I did work on the house. Just filing the lien will make owner financing impossible (like if you want to borrow money to hire a lawyer to fight me). Lenders and buyers want totally undisputed ownership. Then I sue to foreclose on the lien. If the case goes to trial I lose bad, because it will be obvious I'm lying. But I'm willing to settle out of court and release the lien for a fraction of what the property is worth.

How is that legal?


It's not.
 
2013-11-26 10:23:51 AM

Diogenes: factoryconnection: FTA: Johnson obtained a copy of the indictment, upon which Carr wrote across the front "rejected" and "offer not accepted."

Why do I get the feeling that the words "sovereign citizen" have passed this man's lips at least daily for the last 10 years?

I hope he ends owning a jail cell.


and big bubba owning his ass while he rots there too
 
2013-11-26 10:24:13 AM
The guy is simply an asshole and has absolutely no legal standing.  What we're talking about with this "Quiet Title" is really "Adverse Possession."  In Ohio, this is what is required:

"The elements of this claim in Ohio, as well as most other states, are exclusive possession and open, notorious, continuous, and adverse use of the disputed property for a period of twenty-one years."

Read more here

The issue is that any one of these claims needs to be sorted out and examined, which takes time in court. Now, the simple solution, if you ask me, would be to break into your own home with a bunch of people and beat the crap out of him for trespassing if he refuses to go quietly. You can prove you own the home and have the right to defend it; during the process of "Quiet Title" he has no legal claim to the property.
 
2013-11-26 10:25:39 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: Diogenes: A little light on details.

The "quiet title" business may be a real thing.  I don't know.  But I would think you'd have to prove the owner doesn't hold the title or hasn't paid the mortgage.

In any event, now I'm eyeing a place in mom's neighborhood!  That place is definitely abandoned.  They're not just on vacation.

Does your city not have the "role" (I do it in French, I really don't know what it is in English) online? You can look up any address and pull up the information as well as the latest evaluation and tax bill.

For Montreal it looks like this

http://evalweb.ville.montreal.qc.ca/Role2014actu/recherche.asp


We do.  I just looked up the country records on my house last week.  I'm trying to determine the abandoned house's address right now.
 
2013-11-26 10:26:18 AM
Some people try really hard to make a case for vigilante justice.

/Not sayin' it would be  right...
//...but I'd understand, for sure.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-11-26 10:26:44 AM
stevetherobot: How is that legal?

It's not legal. If I make an illegal claim on your house, you can go to court. After winning the case you still have your house and are poorer by your attorney's fee. Or you can pay me to go away.

I may have committed a crime. You have to convince the prosecutor the case is interesting.
 
2013-11-26 10:27:33 AM
Looks like I have to update the roster for the Pay-Per-View event where people are thrown into a pit with a battle-axe and only one may leave alive.  So far, I have resmpect dart guy, 26 minute gym guy, the Seattle basement sealer guy who links people he doesn't like to porn sites and now this guy.
 
2013-11-26 10:28:56 AM

stevetherobot: How is that legal?


The point is to make the pay-off cost less than the court costs.

Then you just have to worry about someone who'll go to court on principle.

It works exactly in the same way that patent trolls get their tuppence.  Or how government prosecutors get you to take a plea deal for a crime you didn't commit because they threaten to charge you with something bigger that will take really expensive lawyers to defend.
 
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