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(Tampa Bay Online)   Mad at the county? Paying your $11,000 tax bill in pennies and one dollar bills must feel good   (tbo.com) divider line 54
    More: Florida, tax bills  
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4001 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Nov 2013 at 12:49 AM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-25 08:43:43 PM
Stupid bint.
 
2013-11-25 08:47:50 PM
Wow. That article made me really, really, really dislike that woman.
 
2013-11-25 11:44:14 PM
This is why no one likes Libertarians.
 
2013-11-25 11:55:06 PM

clancifer: This is why no one likes Libertarians.


No, there are many more, much better reasons than this.

The biggest one I can think of at the moment rhymes with Pand Raul.
 
2013-11-26 12:50:14 AM
"I was wondering how she got that many dollar bills."

img.fark.net
 
2013-11-26 12:53:52 AM
Uber coont.
 
Rat
2013-11-26 12:57:01 AM
I like Libertarians.

© this lady?  Not so much.  She could've at least Woz'd them
 
2013-11-26 12:57:53 AM
I would've purposely messed up the count and told her she still owes $14, then made her prove me wrong.
 
2013-11-26 12:58:21 AM
way too much effort to make a tiny unoriginal point.

/fail
 
2013-11-26 01:01:16 AM
Welfare-queen leech.
 
2013-11-26 01:13:15 AM
There's no getting around property taxes.
 
2013-11-26 01:20:04 AM
"The insurance company owner"

Burn her and shiat on the ashes.
 
2013-11-26 01:20:33 AM

balki1867: I would've purposely messed up the count and told her she still owes $14, then made her prove me wrong.


While I enjoy a good reverse troll, this would only work if you knew she had no additional cash on her person.  If you have land valued at over 700K, I can't imagine it being too difficult to whip out a twenty and say "keep the change, you filthy animal".
 
2013-11-26 01:23:18 AM

TomD9938: There's no getting around property taxes.


only if you feel obligated to pay them
 
2013-11-26 01:30:57 AM
So she's wasting taxpayer money to protest the spending of taxpayer money. Well done.
 
2013-11-26 01:43:21 AM

TomD9938: There's no getting around property taxes.


It's only called "property tax". It's not, really. It's actually rent. If you don't pay your rent, the actual owner of your property will evict you and find another tenant. Hint: you don't have to pay tax repeatedly on the same thing if you actually own that thing. And when you go to court to protest, you'll find that the county has superior title to you. If you don't know what that means, get a legal dictionary. But private "ownership" of real estate is a fiction. We used to have it - it was called allodial title. But it's been phased out.
 
2013-11-26 01:43:40 AM
I was wondering how she got that many dollar bills. I doubt any bank would have that many singles on hand.

+
1
 
2013-11-26 01:44:55 AM
Did she crumble the 1 dollar bills up in little balls?
 
2013-11-26 01:54:10 AM

untaken_name: TomD9938: There's no getting around property taxes.

It's only called "property tax". It's not, really. It's actually rent. If you don't pay your rent, the actual owner of your property will evict you and find another tenant. Hint: you don't have to pay tax repeatedly on the same thing if you actually own that thing. And when you go to court to protest, you'll find that the county has superior title to you. If you don't know what that means, get a legal dictionary. But private "ownership" of real estate is a fiction. We used to have it - it was called allodial title. But it's been phased out.


Oh bullshiat. People "own" things when they have the title to those things in their names. You get the title to real estate in your name via a deed. You pay taxes of the real estate that you own as a result of levies made upon your property by various state and local requirements to support the operation of government.
It's nothing more elaborate than that. Put away all the butthurt and be glad you have the means to own some real estate.

 
2013-11-26 01:57:21 AM

untaken_name: TomD9938: There's no getting around property taxes.

It's only called "property tax". It's not, really. It's actually rent. If you don't pay your rent, the actual owner of your property will evict you and find another tenant. Hint: you don't have to pay tax repeatedly on the same thing if you actually own that thing. And when you go to court to protest, you'll find that the county has superior title to you. If you don't know what that means, get a legal dictionary. But private "ownership" of real estate is a fiction. We used to have it - it was called allodial title. But it's been phased out.


I agree completely.  My point was that it's not possible to hide "ownership" in a piece of land.
 
2013-11-26 01:58:17 AM

TheSwizz: While I enjoy a good reverse troll, this would only work if you knew she had no additional cash on her person.  If you have land valued at over 700K, I can't imagine it being too difficult to whip out a twenty and say "keep the change, you filthy animal".


I'm picturing it a little differently-- like waiting a couple of days to do this (as if you've been counting money nonstop), and then picking a point in time to be done counting and then calling her every day afterwards until she comes in to pay.  This either forces her to defend her values and actually count the money with you, or just pay the $14.  Either way, you just respond with, "Thanks for clearing this up.  Have a good one!"
 
2013-11-26 01:59:25 AM

jmr61: Oh bullshiat. People "own" things when they have the title to those things in their names


Obviously you do not understand the meaning of "superior title".
 
2013-11-26 02:06:33 AM

jmr61: Oh bullshiat. People "own" things when they have the title to those things in their names.


You know what? Just because I'm getting tired of people trying to claim that this simple legal definition is not true, here's the legal definition of "owner" from Black's Legal Dictionary:

"An individual or group that has exclusive possession of an asset."

Here's "possession":

"The detention and control, or the manual or ideal custody, of any- thing which may be the subject of property, for one's use and enjoyment, either as owner or as the proprietor of a qualified right in it, and either held personally or by another who exercises it in one's place and name. That condition of facts under which one can exercise his power over a corporeal thing at his pleasure to the exclusion of all other persons."

The bolded part is important. In a scenario where you do not pay tax on "your" land, and the county auctions it off, are YOU exercising your power over that corporeal land at your pleasure, or is the county?
 
2013-11-26 02:07:16 AM
"The public is not your slush fund," she continued. "Stay within your means because we don't want anymore taxes."
Julann Roe,, lives on a 41-acre estate in Dade City valued at $711,447. Her property on Mickler Road includes a 4,014-square-foot home with a covered pool, jacuzzi and outdoor fireplace, a detached three-car garage and horse stables worth $118,300.

pay it biatch. what's sauce for the goose.........
 
2013-11-26 02:19:51 AM

untaken_name: TomD9938: There's no getting around property taxes.

It's only called "property tax". It's not, really. It's actually rent. If you don't pay your rent, the actual owner of your property will evict you and find another tenant. Hint: you don't have to pay tax repeatedly on the same thing if you actually own that thing. And when you go to court to protest, you'll find that the county has superior title to you. If you don't know what that means, get a legal dictionary. But private "ownership" of real estate is a fiction. We used to have it - it was called allodial title. But it's been phased out.


Oh fark...
The totally batshiat insane libertarian fallacy about "title".

Next you'll tell me that lawyers invalidate the constitution because they become "esquires".

Youre not a libertarian you're a farking sovereign citizen...moron.
 
2013-11-26 02:23:09 AM

untaken_name: TomD9938: There's no getting around property taxes.

It's only called "property tax". It's not, really. It's actually rent. If you don't pay your rent, the actual owner of your property will evict you and find another tenant. Hint: you don't have to pay tax repeatedly on the same thing if you actually own that thing. And when you go to court to protest, you'll find that the county has superior title to you. If you don't know what that means, get a legal dictionary. But private "ownership" of real estate is a fiction. We used to have it - it was called allodial title. But it's been phased out.


Hey look! A crazy American!
 
2013-11-26 02:26:22 AM

Rat: I like Libertarians.

© this lady?  Not so much.


She's what the party has become, unfortunately. The whole philosophy of "freedom" has been replaced with "me, me, me" and "fark you".  She's not protesting for freedom for gays, or pot smokers, or any other liberty. She's saying "I wanna live in this society, use the roads, the schools, the parks, but I sure as hell don't wanna pay for any of it". This chick is a member of the Tea Party, I googled it. So much for "liberty".
 
2013-11-26 02:28:49 AM
I applaud her and this action. Even though she clearly has the financial means to pay the bill, according to the list of her assets.

"The public is not your slush fund," she continued. "Stay within your means because we don't want anymore taxes."

img.fark.net
 
2013-11-26 02:32:33 AM

xxdangerbobxx: untaken_name: TomD9938: There's no getting around property taxes.

It's only called "property tax". It's not, really. It's actually rent. If you don't pay your rent, the actual owner of your property will evict you and find another tenant. Hint: you don't have to pay tax repeatedly on the same thing if you actually own that thing. And when you go to court to protest, you'll find that the county has superior title to you. If you don't know what that means, get a legal dictionary. But private "ownership" of real estate is a fiction. We used to have it - it was called allodial title. But it's been phased out.

Hey look! A crazy American!


But you repeat yourself.
 
2013-11-26 02:36:41 AM

Clint_Torres: I applaud her and this action. Even though she clearly has the financial means to pay the bill, according to the list of her assets.

"The public is not your slush fund," she continued. "Stay within your means because we don't want anymore taxes."


Awesome! From someone who gladly accepted a tf subscription.

fark those government leeches, amiright?
 
2013-11-26 02:45:27 AM

tripleseven: Clint_Torres: I applaud her and this action. Even though she clearly has the financial means to pay the bill, according to the list of her assets.

"The public is not your slush fund," she continued. "Stay within your means because we don't want anymore taxes."

Awesome! From someone who gladly accepted a tf subscription.

fark those government leeches, amiright?


Can you turn those down?

It was a gift, not a mandatory fee. And after going on TF, I'm kind of scared now.
 
2013-11-26 02:57:24 AM

Clint_Torres: tripleseven: Clint_Torres: I applaud her and this action. Even though she clearly has the financial means to pay the bill, according to the list of her assets.

"The public is not your slush fund," she continued. "Stay within your means because we don't want anymore taxes."

Awesome! From someone who gladly accepted a tf subscription.

fark those government leeches, amiright?

Can you turn those down?

It was a gift, not a mandatory fee. And after going on TF, I'm kind of scared now.


You accepted something you didn't pay for.

Real bootstrappy like.

Now...yeah I am being a bit of a dick.
But, I think the point about libertarians and baggers being the ultimate hypocrites stands.
 
2013-11-26 03:05:28 AM

TheSwizz: balki1867: I would've purposely messed up the count and told her she still owes $14, then made her prove me wrong.

While I enjoy a good reverse troll, this would only work if you knew she had no additional cash on her person.  If you have land valued at over 700K, I can't imagine it being too difficult to whip out a twenty and say "keep the change, you filthy animal".


I disagree 100%.  It's not about whether she has the cash, it's about getting the last laugh.  After all the trouble and hassle it must've been to get $11,000 in singles together, that last little jab combined with a total I-ain't-even-mad attitude would've totally ruined the entire stupid stunt for her.
 
2013-11-26 03:10:36 AM

untaken_name: It's only called "property tax". It's not, really. It's actually rent. If you don't pay your rent, the actual owner of your property will evict you and find another tenant. Hint: you don't have to pay tax repeatedly on the same thing if you actually own that thing. And when you go to court to protest, you'll find that the county has superior title to you. If you don't know what that means, get a legal dictionary. But private "ownership" of real estate is a fiction. We used to have it - it was called allodial title. But it's been phased out.


In return for this rent, the property that you do not own but live on is provided with clean air, clean water, and environmental protections. It also has access to, and is protected by, fire, police, and emergency medical services. There are public accessways to your property including roads, bridges, telephone wires and telecommunications hubs, and most importantly, your property is protected from invaders by a highly trained and specialized professional defense force.

None of these things you had to pay for and you would be far worse off if you didn't have to.

So quitchyerwhining and pay your damn taxes.
 
2013-11-26 03:14:01 AM

untaken_name: The bolded part is important. In a scenario where you do not pay tax on "your" land, and the county auctions it off, are YOU exercising your power over that corporeal land at your pleasure, or is the county?


Yes, it's true: You do not own your own land. Until it's your name on the map, it's technically not yours. But that's quite irrelevant because ownership has never been an individual rights thing.
 
2013-11-26 03:16:16 AM
This actually went about as well for her as it possibly could have, considering that they apparently let her walk out the door and quietly wasted time counting the money, taking no further retaliation than biatching about her to the media. (Although that "I wonder where she got all those singles" line was pretty epic. Brofist, Pasco County Tax Collector Mike Fasano.)

Normally the way this goes is that someone has a $500 bill that they want to pay with 50,000 pennies, and this conversation ensues.

TAX FREEDOM! PATRIOT!!!: Here's your precious "tax" money! Suck it, fascists!
CLERK: Nope. Check, money order, or bills.
TF!P!!!: Nuh-uh! It's legal tender! It even says so on your illegitimate fiat scrip!
CLERK: Yeah, that's paper money. Coins we don't have to do shiat with. If you want to come back with 500 singles it'll take our counting machine about ten seconds.
TF!P!!!: What the-- why you little fascist-- I oughta-- RON PAUL!!!!!
 
2013-11-26 03:19:31 AM

tripleseven: Clint_Torres: tripleseven: Clint_Torres: I applaud her and this action. Even though she clearly has the financial means to pay the bill, according to the list of her assets.

"The public is not your slush fund," she continued. "Stay within your means because we don't want anymore taxes."

Awesome! From someone who gladly accepted a tf subscription.

fark those government leeches, amiright?

Can you turn those down?

It was a gift, not a mandatory fee. And after going on TF, I'm kind of scared now.

You accepted something you didn't pay for.

Real bootstrappy like.

Now...yeah I am being a bit of a dick.
But, I think the point about libertarians and baggers being the ultimate hypocrites stands.


I'm kind of confused. How does me accepting a gift put me in the same league as this woman? Just because I said I like her statement and action? I'm not going to defend tea baggers. Those people are nuts. I will agree that some governments can be corrupt and shady and we should call them out on it. But this is a pretty good 'fark you' move.

Shiat. I don't even know what I am trying to say. I'm going to bed.

/and yes, you are
 
2013-11-26 03:21:25 AM
So there are no legal tender rules in Florida? You couldn't pull that shiat where I live.
 
2013-11-26 03:25:55 AM

untaken_name: jmr61: Oh bullshiat. People "own" things when they have the title to those things in their names.

You know what? Just because I'm getting tired of people trying to claim that this simple legal definition is not true, here's the legal definition of "owner" from Black's Legal Dictionary:

"An individual or group that has exclusive possession of an asset."

Here's "possession":

"The detention and control, or the manual or ideal custody, of any- thing which may be the subject of property, for one's use and enjoyment, either as owner or as the proprietor of a qualified right in it, and either held personally or by another who exercises it in one's place and name. That condition of facts under which one can exercise his power over a corporeal thing at his pleasure to the exclusion of all other persons."

The bolded part is important. In a scenario where you do not pay tax on "your" land, and the county auctions it off, are YOU exercising your power over that corporeal land at your pleasure, or is the county?


Possession has no real place of discussion in law in terms of real property, as this is a legal term applied to personal property.

Real property is real estate. All land in common law countries are owned by the government. You take tenancy of the property under such conditions as fee simple, lease, ect.

By the way, ownership is granted to that land in fee simple through either joint tenancy, or tenancy in common.

That is why you are able to raise civil disputes in court against the government over land. They allow you legal ownership of the land. They being the government.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're not a lawyer.
 
2013-11-26 03:42:23 AM

untaken_name: It's only called "property tax". It's not, really. It's actually rent. If you don't pay your rent, the actual owner of your property will evict you and find another tenant. Hint: you don't have to pay tax repeatedly on the same thing if you actually own that thing. And when you go to court to protest, you'll find that the county has superior title to you. If you don't know what that means, get a legal dictionary. But private "ownership" of real estate is a fiction. We used to have it - it was called allodial title. But it's been phased out.


Yeah, there's a sense in which this is true, if you define certain common terms in certain plausible ways. Not the way that the extant law does, but the way you could conceivably define them, without really stretching the common-sense definitions of the words too much, if you were starting from scratch.

But... so what?

If you're starting from the position that property taxes are ABOMINATIONS UNTO THE LORD, well, it's probably not the specific terminology that has your undies in a twist. And if you're just advocating for your particular nomenclature, then really you might as well just acknowledge that sometimes words are given a technical legal meaning that isn't exactly the same as our everyday definition for things. Go ahead and write "RENT" on the memo line of your property tax check, if that's the only problem. No one will mind.

The reason you're getting grief is because fussing about that kind of thing (unless you're just super-pedantic about what meaning words are or aren't allowed to have) is more or less indistinguishable from fussing about whether the local courtroom has a flag with a gold fringe on it, or how you're not really under arrest because the charging document spelled your name in all capital letters.
 
2013-11-26 05:57:50 AM
wtf I live on one acre in a POS house in the next county up zillow says is worth 450 (yeah right) and my taxes are $8000.  Something is seriously out of whack and even my neighbors', all of whose houses are nicer, are paying $5k max.  I can't wait for my protest hearing
 
2013-11-26 06:19:35 AM
a 41-acre estate in Dade City valued at $711,447. Her property on Mickler Road includes a 4,014-square-foot home with a covered pool, jacuzzi and outdoor fireplace, a detached three-car garage and horse stables worth $118,300.

$11K seems cheap for that. I pay $5K and change for an 1100 sqft ranch on half an acre.
 
2013-11-26 06:47:38 AM
To argue a separate point.

The "county" or the Gub-ment. Is not the least put out by small bills and pennies. They got their money.

It is only some hourly rate neighbor of yours that now has to count and sort it all. You only inconvenienced a peon. The "Good Ole Boys" who run the area just make jokes about you over afternoon martinis.

So, in the end, this is a story about a citizen paying their taxes. Not much of a protest.

At least it didn't inspire me at all.
 
2013-11-26 06:51:19 AM

The_Philosopher_King: You only inconvenienced a peon.


Is it really even an inconvenience since they have to be there anyway? It's not like you're making them come in on their day off.
 
2013-11-26 07:14:07 AM

abhorrent1: The_Philosopher_King: You only inconvenienced a peon.
Is it really even an inconvenience since they have to be there anyway? It's not like you're making them come in on their day off.


I was thinking that it was just a "pain in the ass task that they really wouldn't choose to do" type of inconvenience.

But what if they had to put extra hours in. That means the she caused increased government spending.
 
2013-11-26 07:28:45 AM
The county should just put up a 20 foot wall around the property and charge a $5,000 toll. "Grats biatch you 'own' your little plot of land. We own the everything around it."
 
2013-11-26 07:44:01 AM
Whaaaa! She lives in America with the opportunities to afford her to live in a mansion but her mind is poisoned with the tea party notion that she did it on her own and should live in the US without ever paying a dime.
 
2013-11-26 07:55:56 AM
I guess I will not complain about my $1500 property tax on 2600 sf house on 5 acres then.
 
2013-11-26 08:05:27 AM
Solution.
Get ordained as a minister, I believe this can be done online?
Declare the property and house to belong to your church.
Invite the family over for dinner and drinks once a week and call it "church services" and enjoy the sweet sweet tax free living.

Now what should she name the church?
 
2013-11-26 08:31:21 AM
"I do not feel obligated to pay for any wage increase for any county employee," she said in September. "I do not feel obligated to pay for your retirement, either. Save your own money for your own retirement."

She's a hypocrite.  I guarantee you her insurance company is a corporation or an LLC in order to avoid personal liability for the company's actions. Seems an awful lot of libertarians are all "keep the government out of everthing" but would scream bloody murder if this government-provided legal fiction went away.
 
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