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(Kotaku)   Even when all a female game character wants to do is wear sweats, she's gotta put on that ridiculous sexy leather getup   (kotaku.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, multiplayer online, Blizzard Entertainment, RPS  
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12719 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Nov 2013 at 2:08 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-25 12:45:46 PM  
Oooh a sexism in video games thread!

www.reactiongifs.us
 
2013-11-25 01:23:41 PM  
"We have an amazing roster of heroes and we will always strive to make sure that everyone can have a hero that they identify with and feel powerful using.

I think I probably identify most with this hero:

obsoletegamer.com
 
2013-11-25 01:36:53 PM  
I'm just surprised video games have limited their unrealistic depictions to just women.  No matter how strong the temptation to give male heroes unrealistic musculature and hyper-masculine attitudes, they've held strong and kept male video game protagonists realistically in line with what their players actually look like.

Just a little farther and we'll be done worrying about women being wrongly depicted as well!
 
2013-11-25 01:44:24 PM  

serial_crusher: I'm just surprised video games have limited their unrealistic depictions to just women.  No matter how strong the temptation to give male heroes unrealistic musculature and hyper-masculine attitudes, they've held strong and kept male video game protagonists realistically in line with what their players actually look like.

Just a little farther and we'll be done worrying about women being wrongly depicted as well!


If I want to play a mainstream protagonist that is a skinny man, a fat man, a tall man, a short man, an attractive man, an ugly man, a muscular man, a weak man, a smart man, a dumb man, a man with missing limbs, a man with too many limbs, a man with great fashion sense, a man with terrible fashion sense, a disabled man, a non-disabled man, a blind man, a deaf man, a mute man, a sexualized man, or a non-sexualized man, I can do that incredibly easily and can pick from dozens of games where it's possible.

If I want to play a protagonist that is a woman that isn't sexy and has normal features that aren't exaggerated sexually, I can play.... well.... maybe one or two games? If that?

False equivalency is false.
 
2013-11-25 01:51:23 PM  
I think the difference here is in how males and females view over-the-top images of their sex.

A woman sees a hyper-sexualized, impossible to achieve female form and says ... how can I ever look like that? What do they expect from me? I'll never be good enough.

A man sees hyper-sexualized, impossible to achieve male form, sucks in his gut, looks in the mirror and says ... yeah, I kinda look like that. Close enough.
 
2013-11-25 01:58:49 PM  

Rincewind53: serial_crusher: I'm just surprised video games have limited their unrealistic depictions to just women.  No matter how strong the temptation to give male heroes unrealistic musculature and hyper-masculine attitudes, they've held strong and kept male video game protagonists realistically in line with what their players actually look like.

Just a little farther and we'll be done worrying about women being wrongly depicted as well!

If I want to play a mainstream protagonist that is a skinny man, a fat man, a tall man, a short man, an attractive man, an ugly man, a muscular man, a weak man, a smart man, a dumb man, a man with missing limbs, a man with too many limbs, a man with great fashion sense, a man with terrible fashion sense, a disabled man, a non-disabled man, a blind man, a deaf man, a mute man, a sexualized man, or a non-sexualized man, I can do that incredibly easily and can pick from dozens of games where it's possible.

If I want to play a protagonist that is a woman that isn't sexy and has normal features that aren't exaggerated sexually, I can play.... well.... maybe one or two games? If that?

False equivalency is false.


Sure, if your objective is just "play a video game", and any video game will do; but then you might as well play the one or two games that have non-exaggerated female characters.  Good luck if you want to play God of War or equivalent without an unrealistic protagonist.

TFA is talking about a specific subgenre of video games that have exaggerated characters all around.  The screenshot at the top of the article has some sort of bull/human hybrid with bigger muscles than a young Arnold Schwarzenegger playing an axe like it's a guitar, for Christ's sakes.  I'm pretty sure a humble female character with functional hair style and khaki pants would seem out of place in that game.
 
2013-11-25 02:02:56 PM  
so the men that design games primarily played by boys are sexist pigs?
COLOR ME SHOCKED!!!

Is there anyone in the universe surprised that the designers are still as bad as the boys that play the games?
That the designers are still stuck in the "girls play are games? REALLY???" paradigm.
 
2013-11-25 02:06:16 PM  

Rincewind53: If I want to play a mainstream protagonist that is a skinny man, a fat man, a tall man, a short man, an attractive man, an ugly man, a muscular man, a weak man, a smart man, a dumb man, a man with missing limbs, a man with too many limbs, a man with great fashion sense, a man with terrible fashion sense, a disabled man, a non-disabled man, a blind man, a deaf man, a mute man, a sexualized man, or a non-sexualized man, I can do that incredibly easily and can pick from dozens of games where it's possible.

If I want to play a protagonist that is a woman that isn't sexy and has normal features that aren't exaggerated sexually, I can play.... well.... maybe one or two games? If that?

False equivalency is false.


Now I'm not saying that the ratio of female-to-male protagonists is okay, but there have been a lot more than "one or two games" that didn't feature hyper-sexualized females.

Chell (Portal)
Samus (Metroid)
Lara Croft (most recent one)
Faith (Mirror's Edge)
Alyx Vance (Half-Life 2)
Female Commander Shepard (Mass Effect 1-3)
The Warden/Female Hawke (Dragon Age)
Alexandria (Gears of War)
Female Vault Dweller (Fallout 3)
Female Courier (Fallout New Vegas)
Elizabeth (Bioshock Infinite)
Elle (Last of Us)
Zoey (Left 4 Dead)
 
2013-11-25 02:09:13 PM  

dillenger69: I think the difference here is in how males and females view over-the-top images of their sex.

A woman sees a hyper-sexualized, impossible to achieve female form and says ... how can I ever look like that? What do they expect from me? I'll never be good enough.

A man sees hyper-sexualized, impossible to achieve male form, sucks in his gut, looks in the mirror and says ... yeah, I kinda look like that. Close enough.


The bigger issue is the utter lack of choice and the failure of video-games to include anything other than sexy women, while at the same time including tons of un-sexy men. Take Mass Effect 2, for example. Here are the companions:
i.imgur.com
For the men, you have Zaeed (scarred, old, ugly and bitter man), Mordin (skinny, tall scientist), Garrus (scarred alien, body mostly hidden by armor), Grunt (huge muscular alien, body armor obliterates any sense of real body), Jacob (handsome, traditionally attractive man), and Thane (skinny bad-boy assassin). There's a huge disparity in body type, attractiveness level, and they have armor that fits their characters.

Then for the women, you have Samara (boobs literally hanging out, skin-tight bodysuit), Tali (virginal nerd girl, big boobs, skin-tight bodysuit), Miranda (her character is literally, in canon, designed to be incredibly sexy, wears a skin-tight body suit), Kasumi (not pictured, but is the goth-girl, also wearing a skin-tight bodysuit with huge boobs) and Jack (tattooed rebel, literally only wears leather strips over her breasts to cover up her nipples).

Sure, some of the men get that "male power fantasy" thing,  but not all of them. But the women are, to a one, portrayed sexually. This isn't just to criticize Mass Effect 2 (a game I love), or Bioware (a company that does this stuff all the time, in all their games). Rather, I'm pointing out that the "well, men get portrayed badly too" argument is not only, as you pointed out, a male power fantasy, but that men also  don't get portrayed in that male power fantasy role all the time, whereas finding a woman character who's not portrayed sexually is  very rare. Men have options. Women have LOOK AT HER BOOBS AND BUTT.
 
2013-11-25 02:20:37 PM  

dillenger69: A man sees hyper-sexualized, impossible to achieve male form, sucks in his gut, looks in the mirror and says ... yeah, I kinda look like that. Close enough.


What do you mean impossible?  You certainly have not met me.

/5'8"  300 lbs with more hair on my back than my head.
//Denial is a fun place to be.
 
2013-11-25 02:20:40 PM  
 
2013-11-25 02:26:05 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Rincewind53: If I want to play a mainstream protagonist that is a skinny man, a fat man, a tall man, a short man, an attractive man, an ugly man, a muscular man, a weak man, a smart man, a dumb man, a man with missing limbs, a man with too many limbs, a man with great fashion sense, a man with terrible fashion sense, a disabled man, a non-disabled man, a blind man, a deaf man, a mute man, a sexualized man, or a non-sexualized man, I can do that incredibly easily and can pick from dozens of games where it's possible.

If I want to play a protagonist that is a woman that isn't sexy and has normal features that aren't exaggerated sexually, I can play.... well.... maybe one or two games? If that?

False equivalency is false.

Now I'm not saying that the ratio of female-to-male protagonists is okay, but there have been a lot more than "one or two games" that didn't feature hyper-sexualized females.

Chell (Portal)
Samus (Metroid)
Lara Croft (most recent one)
Faith (Mirror's Edge)
Alyx Vance (Half-Life 2)
Female Commander Shepard (Mass Effect 1-3)
The Warden/Female Hawke (Dragon Age)
Alexandria (Gears of War)
Female Vault Dweller (Fallout 3)
Female Courier (Fallout New Vegas)

Elizabeth (Bioshock Infinite)
Elle (Last of Us)
Zoey (Left 4 Dead)


I crossed three off of your list because they're characters that you can create in a character creation generator, and so therefore aren't really at issue. FemShep  can be made to look sexy (and her suits are decidedly more ass-showing than Male Shep), but I applaud the character and Jennifer Hale did an amazing job with it.

Going in order for the rest:
- Chell is a  great example of what games  should be doing. I applaud the designers for her character.
- I'd take Samus off your list, because, well, have you seen Metroid: Other M? They abandoned that whole "Samus is just a capable woman" thing a long time ago in favor of Zero Suit Samus and boobs everywhere.
- Lara Croft has a long and troubled history with this thing. I actually loved the new Tomb Raider, and think that they took a bold step by hiring Rihanna Pratchett to write it, and it's a great step in a positive direction. That said, she is  decidedly still a sexy character, still unusually attractive.
- Faith is also a pretty good example of a positive character, though she's definitely not unattractive. She's just not exaggeratedly sexy, which was nice.
- Alyx Vance is definitely a character designed to be attractive to the male player. She literally spends the whole game fawningly telling you how great and awesome you are. That said, I agree that she's not over-the-top, and I like the character a lot.
- Alexandria from Gears of War, well, haven't played that, so I can't comment.
- Elizabeth was actually originally designed to be  much more sexy, and there was a huge backlash when Ken Levine released screenshots showing her with low-cut dresses and cleavage heaving everywhere. So the fact that her cleavage is contained isn't really a good argument in favor of her being a good example of female protagonists; it was done only after criticism.
- Haven't played Last of Us, but from what I've seen, they handled the character really well.
- Zoey from L4D is a great character, but as with Rochelle from L4D2, another great example of "Men get to be any age, weight, and attractiveness level, but women get to be young and conventionally attractive only."

My favorite example for good character design is the Telltale Games Walking Dead series. Throughout the game, the women  and men in the party were all of varying ages, heights, weights, and attractiveness levels. You know.  Like regular humans.
 
2013-11-25 02:26:14 PM  

serial_crusher: I'm just surprised video games have limited their unrealistic depictions to just women.  No matter how strong the temptation to give male heroes unrealistic musculature and hyper-masculine attitudes, they've held strong and kept male video game protagonists realistically in line with what their players actually look like.

Just a little farther and we'll be done worrying about women being wrongly depicted as well!


In both cases, it's all about male fantasies. The hyper-musculated men are not there to titillate the female players.
 
2013-11-25 02:26:16 PM  

serial_crusher: Good luck if you want to play God of War or equivalent without an unrealistic protagonist.


It should be noted that literally the first scene in God of War is a minigame with Kratos nailing two chicks. That male power fantasy thing does certainly apply in many cases.
 
2013-11-25 02:26:27 PM  
lol wut?!

img31.imageshack.us
 
2013-11-25 02:29:01 PM  

Rincewind53: I crossed three off of your list because they're characters that you can create in a character creation generator, and so therefore aren't really at issue.


It should be noted that while many games allow you make a fat man, very few allow you to make a fat woman. Typically, your options range from waif-like thin to British hot.
 
2013-11-25 02:30:26 PM  
Hyper-sexualized video game characters?  I have no idea what you're talking about.

gematsu.com
 
2013-11-25 02:30:47 PM  
It should be noted that I start far too many posts with "it should be noted". WTF.
 
2013-11-25 02:31:25 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Rincewind53: If I want to play a mainstream protagonist that is a skinny man, a fat man, a tall man, a short man, an attractive man, an ugly man, a muscular man, a weak man, a smart man, a dumb man, a man with missing limbs, a man with too many limbs, a man with great fashion sense, a man with terrible fashion sense, a disabled man, a non-disabled man, a blind man, a deaf man, a mute man, a sexualized man, or a non-sexualized man, I can do that incredibly easily and can pick from dozens of games where it's possible.

If I want to play a protagonist that is a woman that isn't sexy and has normal features that aren't exaggerated sexually, I can play.... well.... maybe one or two games? If that?

False equivalency is false.

Now I'm not saying that the ratio of female-to-male protagonists is okay, but there have been a lot more than "one or two games" that didn't feature hyper-sexualized females.

Chell (Portal)
Samus (Metroid)
Lara Croft (most recent one)
Faith (Mirror's Edge)
Alyx Vance (Half-Life 2)
Female Commander Shepard (Mass Effect 1-3)
The Warden/Female Hawke (Dragon Age)
Alexandria (Gears of War)
Female Vault Dweller (Fallout 3)
Female Courier (Fallout New Vegas)
Elizabeth (Bioshock Infinite)
Elle (Last of Us)
Zoey (Left 4 Dead)


A few of my female friends play Star Wars: The Old Republic.  One is encased in head-to-toe Boba Fett-style Bounty Hunter armor.  The other plays a Sith Warrior.  She wears mostly shapeless Dark Jedi robes, and the more Dark Side points she racks up, the uglier her character gets.
 
2013-11-25 02:31:39 PM  

Theaetetus: Rincewind53: I crossed three off of your list because they're characters that you can create in a character creation generator, and so therefore aren't really at issue.

It should be noted that while many games allow you make a fat man, very few allow you to make a fat woman. Typically, your options range from waif-like thin to British hot.


Definitely true.
 
2013-11-25 02:33:41 PM  

Rincewind53: scottydoesntknow: Rincewind53: If I want to play a mainstream protagonist that is a skinny man, a fat man, a tall man, a short man, an attractive man, an ugly man, a muscular man, a weak man, a smart man, a dumb man, a man with missing limbs, a man with too many limbs, a man with great fashion sense, a man with terrible fashion sense, a disabled man, a non-disabled man, a blind man, a deaf man, a mute man, a sexualized man, or a non-sexualized man, I can do that incredibly easily and can pick from dozens of games where it's possible.

If I want to play a protagonist that is a woman that isn't sexy and has normal features that aren't exaggerated sexually, I can play.... well.... maybe one or two games? If that?

False equivalency is false.

Now I'm not saying that the ratio of female-to-male protagonists is okay, but there have been a lot more than "one or two games" that didn't feature hyper-sexualized females.

Chell (Portal)
Samus (Metroid)
Lara Croft (most recent one)
Faith (Mirror's Edge)
Alyx Vance (Half-Life 2)
Female Commander Shepard (Mass Effect 1-3)
The Warden/Female Hawke (Dragon Age)
Alexandria (Gears of War)
Female Vault Dweller (Fallout 3)
Female Courier (Fallout New Vegas)
Elizabeth (Bioshock Infinite)
Elle (Last of Us)
Zoey (Left 4 Dead)

I crossed three off of your list because they're characters that you can create in a character creation generator, and so therefore aren't really at issue. FemShep  can be made to look sexy (and her suits are decidedly more ass-showing than Male Shep), but I applaud the character and Jennifer Hale did an amazing job with it.

Going in order for the rest:
- Chell is a  great example of what games  should be doing. I applaud the designers for her character.
- I'd take Samus off your list, because, well, have you seen Metroid: Other M? They abandoned that whole "Samus is just a capable woman" thing a long time ago in favor of Zero Suit Samus and boobs everywhere.
- Lara Croft has a long and troubled history with this t ...


Jesus christ, so basically it isn't a male fantasy only if the women look like trolls to you?  Get over it.
 
2013-11-25 02:38:07 PM  

hammer85: Jesus christ, so basically it isn't a male fantasy only if the women look like trolls to you?  Get over it.


Nice strawman there. Look back to the Mass Effect 2 example above. Your options for the men include everything from an ugly scarred vet, to an alien muscle hulk, to a conventionally attractive man. Your options for the women include variations on a theme of boobs and skin-tight bodysuits.  And nothing else.

Again, let me reiterate, it is rare to find a female character in a video game that is not young and either overly-sexualized or conventionally attractive. On the other hand, there are literally thousands of male characters coming in every flavor of humanity from young to old to ugly to handsome.
 
2013-11-25 02:38:40 PM  

Theaetetus: Rincewind53: I crossed three off of your list because they're characters that you can create in a character creation generator, and so therefore aren't really at issue.

It should be noted that while many games allow you make a fat man, very few allow you to make a fat woman. Typically, your options range from waif-like thin to British hot.


Gotta give props to the Saints Row series. The character generator gives you a lot of flexibility to make any male/female body shape you want, and it includes heavy (and even grossly obese) female characters among the ready-made presets you can choose.
 
2013-11-25 02:38:52 PM  

Rincewind53: Going in order for the rest:
- Chell is a great example of what games should be doing. I applaud the designers for her character.
- I'd take Samus off your list, because, well, have you seen Metroid: Other M? They abandoned that whole "Samus is just a capable woman" thing a long time ago in favor of Zero Suit Samus and boobs everywhere.
- Lara Croft has a long and troubled history with this thing. I actually loved the new Tomb Raider, and think that they took a bold step by hiring Rihanna Pratchett to write it, and it's a great step in a positive direction. That said, she is decidedly still a sexy character, still unusually attractive.
- Faith is also a pretty good example of a positive character, though she's definitely not unattractive. She's just not exaggeratedly sexy, which was nice.
- Alyx Vance is definitely a character designed to be attractive to the male player. She literally spends the whole game fawningly telling you how great and awesome you are. That said, I agree that she's not over-the-top, and I like the character a lot.
- Alexandria from Gears of War, well, haven't played that, so I can't comment.
- Elizabeth was actually originally designed to be much more sexy, and there was a huge backlash when Ken Levine released screenshots showing her with low-cut dresses and cleavage heaving everywhere. So the fact that her cleavage is contained isn't really a good argument in favor of her being a good example of female protagonists; it was done only after criticism.
- Haven't played Last of Us, but from what I've seen, they handled the character really well.
- Zoey from L4D is a great character, but as with Rochelle from L4D2, another great example of "Men get to be any age, weight, and attractiveness level, but women get to be young and conventionally attractive only."


So it's not even hyper-sexuality (tiny waist, huge tits, massive ass) that you're against, it's any attractiveness in general? That's pretty weak.

I agree that the hyper-sexuality is a problem with some games, but attractiveness sells. Works the same in Hollywood. 99% of the females in starring roles are attractive unless it's a comedy or they're the mother/grandmother.
 
2013-11-25 02:39:24 PM  

padraig: serial_crusher: I'm just surprised video games have limited their unrealistic depictions to just women.  No matter how strong the temptation to give male heroes unrealistic musculature and hyper-masculine attitudes, they've held strong and kept male video game protagonists realistically in line with what their players actually look like.

Just a little farther and we'll be done worrying about women being wrongly depicted as well!

In both cases, it's all about male fantasies. The hyper-musculated men are not there to titillate the female players.


So, what would a video game designed to titillate women look like?  How would it even differ from a video game to titillate men?

Here's the cover of a video game that was designed to titillate men with power fantasies:
res.cloudinary.com

And here's the same guy on the cover of a book designed to titillate women with romance fantasies:
i.huffpost.com
Rippling muscles, check.
Sword in hand, check.
Long flowing hair blowing in the wind, check.

Maybe video games would have something for women after all, if they gave them a chance.
 
2013-11-25 02:42:05 PM  
Action game heroes dress like soldiers, crazy musculature or not.

Action game heroines, absent the few examples in this thread perhaps, dress like cybernetic strippers from the future.  As I'm sure you're all familiar with the Israeli Defense Forces hotties of internet fame, you'll probably also recall that other than their great hair and pretty faces, when they're dressed for duty their bodies look plain.  Look at parkour videos (the closest to platforming-type games): the women aren't dressed like whores; they're dressed like the woman in Mirror's Edge.  If they have huge tits, they're not wearing push-up bikini tops and they aren't wearing thongs.  So many thongs in video games.

So the general wisdom is that "hyper-sexualized female characters sell, even if they are somewhat degrading to women."  So the video game publishers are making a conscious choice to be part of the problem, because, you know... f*ck it.
 
2013-11-25 02:44:02 PM  
Women's magazines are full of scantily clad women, too. They like it every bit as much as men do.

And who can blame them. The female body is simply glorious.
 
2013-11-25 02:46:45 PM  
Ahem...

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBS.

Carry on.
 
2013-11-25 02:46:48 PM  

Rincewind53: hammer85: Jesus christ, so basically it isn't a male fantasy only if the women look like trolls to you?  Get over it.

Nice strawman there. Look back to the Mass Effect 2 example above. Your options for the men include everything from an ugly scarred vet, to an alien muscle hulk, to a conventionally attractive man. Your options for the women include variations on a theme of boobs and skin-tight bodysuits.  And nothing else.

Again, let me reiterate, it is rare to find a female character in a video game that is not young and either overly-sexualized or conventionally attractive. On the other hand, there are literally thousands of male characters coming in every flavor of humanity from young to old to ugly to handsome.


Pretty sure my mass effect character was scarred plenty, getting more so the more renegade points you racked up.

And when your every critique of that guys list is "but shes still attractive/sexy" it isn't a strawman.  Words have meanings.
 
2013-11-25 02:47:27 PM  

scottydoesntknow: So it's not even hyper-sexuality (tiny waist, huge tits, massive ass) that you're against, it's any attractiveness in general? That's pretty weak.

I agree that the hyper-sexuality is a problem with some games, but attractiveness sells. Works the same in Hollywood. 99% of the females in starring roles are attractive unless it's a comedy or they're the mother/grandmother.


If you'll notice, I actually said I liked most of those characters. With the exception of what they've done with Samus, I think they're pretty much all great characters I'd like more of in games. It takes a weird misreading of my post to see it as me saying that I'm against attractiveness in game characters.

What I'm pointing out is that even with these well-designed characters, video games still almost never offer the choice of  non-attractive women. There are oodles of non-attractive male video game characters, both playable and not playable. In other words, men in video games run the gamut of human existence, while women are almost always the same type of character. A good example of an exception that proves the rule is Wynne from Dragon Age. She's one of the very few older women protagonists in a video game, and she's really interesting, well-written, and overall a really phenomenal character of a type that I'd love to have more of in games. In fact, off the top of my head I can't think of a single other one. But even she is a pretty attractive older lady, like Helen Mirren-level of attractive for old people.
 
2013-11-25 02:47:37 PM  

Uzzah: Theaetetus: Rincewind53: I crossed three off of your list because they're characters that you can create in a character creation generator, and so therefore aren't really at issue.

It should be noted that while many games allow you make a fat man, very few allow you to make a fat woman. Typically, your options range from waif-like thin to British hot.

Gotta give props to the Saints Row series. The character generator gives you a lot of flexibility to make any male/female body shape you want, and it includes heavy (and even grossly obese) female characters among the ready-made presets you can choose.


That was true for SR2, but in SR3 and SR4 you were limited as to how fat your female character could be.

/I miss my old, overweight Chinese ganster with a cockney accent
 
2013-11-25 02:48:21 PM  
All I want are pants! A decent pair of pants!
i1222.photobucket.com
 
2013-11-25 02:50:15 PM  

hammer85: Pretty sure my mass effect character was scarred plenty, getting more so the more renegade points you racked up.

And when your every critique of that guys list is "but shes still attractive/sexy" it isn't a strawman.  Words have meanings.


See my post right below yours for why your argument was a strawman. Also, I pointed out pretty clearly that I liked FemShep and think she's a great character (also way better than Male Shep, let's be honest). Furthermore, her face comes from a character generator, so she doesn't really count for the purposes of "Well, she's an unattractive character!"
 
2013-11-25 02:51:05 PM  
Fine ladies, we hear you loud and clear. In the name of fairness however, Norman Reedus will appear in a loose turtle neck sweater, baggy hip hop jeans from the 90's and fanny pack for the rest of The Walking Dead's run.
schmoesknow.com

Fair is fair.
 
2013-11-25 02:52:05 PM  

Theaetetus: That was true for SR2, but in SR3 and SR4 you were limited as to how fat your female character could be.

/I miss my old, overweight Chinese ganster with a cockney accent


For some reason, I love making all my characters in games like that be old and some form of non-white character. I think I'm just sick of this kind of thing:
andsohesaid.psychedelico.net
 
2013-11-25 02:53:41 PM  

redsquid: Fine ladies, we hear you loud and clear. In the name of fairness however, Norman Reedus will appear in a loose turtle neck sweater, baggy hip hop jeans from the 90's and fanny pack for the rest of The Walking Dead's run.
[schmoesknow.com image 850x567]

Fair is fair.


Does that dude have his own name tattooed on his tit? Is he afraid that he won't be able to find his name tag when the show ends and he winds up working at a Jiffy-Lube?
 
2013-11-25 02:55:36 PM  
Maybe I'm abnormal but when I watch TV, movies, play games, read, etc. and encounter characters, I almost never think "this is what I should be" or "this is what I'm expected to be". Then again, as a kid I watched stuff like Transformers. I never thought I had to grow up to be a car.

It's fiction. It's not a lesson in moral and societal standards. While characters can be role models (good or bad), they should not be limited to be role models only. I enjoy fiction filled with impossible, ridiculous, horrible, and/or unrealistic people. It's what makes fiction interesting. If I just want good morals and realism, I'll read/watch non-fiction.

That being said, there is plenty of room in all mainstream fiction (not just games, but movies and TV) for more variety. You can probably count the types of common characters on two hands. I might be the cliche (relatively) young while hetero cissexual male, but it's not I feel catered to with most of the male stereotypes I see. Muscled dudebro horndog toughguy doesn't click with me very much.
 
2013-11-25 02:56:04 PM  
This thread had so much potential....

....sigh.
 
2013-11-25 02:58:52 PM  
Oh, great, more fuel for Anita Sarkeesian...
 
2013-11-25 02:59:20 PM  

bikerbob59: This thread had so much potential....

....sigh.


I overwhelm. And threads die because I'm not yelling anyone. It's sadtimes.

Girl Pants: Maybe I'm abnormal but when I watch TV, movies, play games, read, etc. and encounter characters, I almost never think "this is what I should be" or "this is what I'm expected to be". Then again, as a kid I watched stuff like Transformers. I never thought I had to grow up to be a car.

It's fiction. It's not a lesson in moral and societal standards. While characters can be role models (good or bad), they should not be limited to be role models only. I enjoy fiction filled with impossible, ridiculous, horrible, and/or unrealistic people. It's what makes fiction interesting. If I just want good morals and realism, I'll read/watch non-fiction.

That being said, there is plenty of room in all mainstream fiction (not just games, but movies and TV) for more variety. You can probably count the types of common characters on two hands. I might be the cliche (relatively) young while hetero cissexual male, but it's not I feel catered to with most of the male stereotypes I see. Muscled dudebro horndog toughguy doesn't click with me very much.


I agree with you. The thing is mainly that you have options if you want to go elsewhere to get away from the dudebro type, but women mostly don't have any options if they want to go away from the Tits McGee type.
 
2013-11-25 02:59:53 PM  

bikerbob59: This thread had so much potential....

....sigh.


I'll play along:

Gee, since I don't play video games all that much, I guess I'm having trouble envisioning what the objectionable character outfits might look like.  Would it be possible to share some images of the outfits being criticized, with, perhaps, some examples of similar outfits being worn by actual humans in order to fully understand the basis for the criticism?
 
2013-11-25 03:00:12 PM  
A character (in a video game, film, TV, whatever) can be sexy without being primarily a sex object.

The problem in the video game industry is that most video game designers have trouble making such characters or even recognizing the distinction in the first place.

It's like the scene in Spinal Tap where they're accused of being sexist, and respond with "What's wrong with being sexy?"  I think they honestly have trouble telling the difference.  They're aiming for "sexy" characters but keep creating sex objects instead.
 
2013-11-25 03:02:20 PM  

Doc Daneeka: A character (in a video game, film, TV, whatever) can be sexy without being primarily a sex object.


FemShep is probably one of the best examples of that.
 
2013-11-25 03:03:12 PM  
I apologize for being a 30 year old white male who likes to look at both fake and real T&A.

My bad.
 
2013-11-25 03:03:33 PM  

scottydoesntknow: So it's not even hyper-sexuality (tiny waist, huge tits, massive ass) that you're against, it's any attractiveness in general?


Now you get it.
 
2013-11-25 03:04:03 PM  
I fail to see how this is sexist.  Isn't this how all women look?  Besides, it's just a volleyball game.

cdn3.whatculture.com
 
2013-11-25 03:04:24 PM  

Rincewind53: serial_crusher: I'm just surprised video games have limited their unrealistic depictions to just women.  No matter how strong the temptation to give male heroes unrealistic musculature and hyper-masculine attitudes, they've held strong and kept male video game protagonists realistically in line with what their players actually look like.

Just a little farther and we'll be done worrying about women being wrongly depicted as well!

If I want to play a mainstream protagonist that is a skinny man, a fat man, a tall man, a short man, an attractive man, an ugly man, a muscular man, a weak man, a smart man, a dumb man, a man with missing limbs, a man with too many limbs, a man with great fashion sense, a man with terrible fashion sense, a disabled man, a non-disabled man, a blind man, a deaf man, a mute man, a sexualized man, or a non-sexualized man, I can do that incredibly easily and can pick from dozens of games where it's possible.

If I want to play a protagonist that is a woman that isn't sexy and has normal features that aren't exaggerated sexually, I can play.... well.... maybe one or two games? If that?

False equivalency is false.


Well in Fallout 3 & 4 you could make some pretty ugly looking women as your protagonist, I usually did that because Charisma was my dumb attribute
 
2013-11-25 03:06:41 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: Rincewind53: serial_crusher: I'm just surprised video games have limited their unrealistic depictions to just women.  No matter how strong the temptation to give male heroes unrealistic musculature and hyper-masculine attitudes, they've held strong and kept male video game protagonists realistically in line with what their players actually look like.

Just a little farther and we'll be done worrying about women being wrongly depicted as well!

If I want to play a mainstream protagonist that is a skinny man, a fat man, a tall man, a short man, an attractive man, an ugly man, a muscular man, a weak man, a smart man, a dumb man, a man with missing limbs, a man with too many limbs, a man with great fashion sense, a man with terrible fashion sense, a disabled man, a non-disabled man, a blind man, a deaf man, a mute man, a sexualized man, or a non-sexualized man, I can do that incredibly easily and can pick from dozens of games where it's possible.

If I want to play a protagonist that is a woman that isn't sexy and has normal features that aren't exaggerated sexually, I can play.... well.... maybe one or two games? If that?

False equivalency is false.

Well in Fallout 3 & 4 you could make some pretty ugly looking women as your protagonist, I usually did that because Charisma was my dumb attribute


Sorry that should have read Fallout 3 & Fallout New Vegas.
 
2013-11-25 03:07:22 PM  
scottydoesntknow:

So it's not even hyper-sexuality (tiny waist, huge tits, massive ass) that you're against, it's any attractiveness in general? That's pretty weak.

I agree that the hyper-sexuality is a problem with some games, but attractiveness sells. Works the same in Hollywood. 99% of the females in starring roles are attractive unless it's a comedy or they're the mother/grandmother.


And despite what the "feminists" want you to think, 80% of the males in starring roles are attractive unless it's a comedy, and even then, the fatties like Kevin James aren't unpresentable like most fatties...
 
2013-11-25 03:07:39 PM  
Seriously?  Just load up Saints Row III or IV and make an ugly ass chick.  Problem solved.
 
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