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(Politico)   Democrats latest fear: They've somehow become Republicans and have no idea how they ended up in Egypt   (politico.com) divider line 48
    More: Interesting, Egypt, Democrats, Republicans, obamacare, poll average, House Minority Leader, Jay Carney  
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1544 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Nov 2013 at 12:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



48 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-11-25 11:25:36 AM  
Translation:  The Blue Dogs are going to panic and run away from the President and get slaughtered in the mid-terms, just like in 2010.
 
2013-11-25 11:40:16 AM  

Mentat: Translation:  The Blue Dogs are going to panic and run away from the President and get slaughtered in the mid-terms, just like in 2010.


Translation: Hey, at least we didn't fark it up as bad as the GOP farked up Iraq
 
2013-11-25 12:08:30 PM  
I don't know which is worse, believing your own propaganda or buying the other side's.  The country is not in love with the ACA, but most don't hate it either.

I think in the end it will be irrelevant compared to the economy, which still seems to be the biggest driver.
 
2013-11-25 12:12:23 PM  

EvilEgg: I don't know which is worse, believing your own propaganda or buying the other side's.  The country is not in love with the ACA, but most don't hate it either.

I think in the end it will be irrelevant compared to the economy, which still seems to be the biggest driver.


Collective denialism befalls all societies.
 
2013-11-25 12:43:31 PM  

EvilEgg: I don't know which is worse, believing your own propaganda or buying the other side's.  The country is not in love with the ACA, but most don't hate it either.

I think in the end it will be irrelevant compared to the economy, which still seems to be the biggest driver.


Now now, let's not use logic here.
 
2013-11-25 12:44:59 PM  

Mentat: Translation:  The Blue Dogs are going to panic and run away from the President and get slaughtered in the mid-terms, just like in 2010.


Are there any Blue Dogs really left?
 
2013-11-25 12:45:30 PM  
www.harrystone.net
 
2013-11-25 12:45:55 PM  
Hmm:  Politico Headline: "
Dems worry leaders in denial on Obamacare"

but curiously don't supply any quotes from "dems" saying this....


imageshack.us
 
2013-11-25 12:46:28 PM  

cman: EvilEgg: I don't know which is worse, believing your own propaganda or buying the other side's.  The country is not in love with the ACA, but most don't hate it either.

I think in the end it will be irrelevant compared to the economy, which still seems to be the biggest driver.

Collective denialism befalls all societies.


Agreed. I've witnessed a collective denial from one political spectrum about rate increases for 40 years, in many cases double-digits. I've witnessed a collective denial about 40 years of policy cancellations. I've also witnessed 30 years of denials about coverage being dropped by corporations.

I never knew that people who claimed to be so fiercely independent, libertarians and other conservatives, could display their 'collective' desire for willful ignorance.
 
2013-11-25 12:46:53 PM  

EvilEgg: I don't know which is worse, believing your own propaganda or buying the other side's.  The country is not in love with the ACA, but most don't hate it either.

I think in the end it will be irrelevant compared to the economy, which still seems to be the biggest driver.


By that measure, it seems Democrats in power will get a "meh" to "good" governance rating by the general populace, assuming the somewhat anemic economic recovery keeps rolling.
 
2013-11-25 12:48:30 PM  

EvilEgg: I don't know which is worse, believing your own propaganda or buying the other side's.  The country is not in love with the ACA, but most don't hate it either.

I think in the end it will be irrelevant compared to the economy, which still seems to be the biggest driver.


Nonsense, SatanHitlerStalincare will kill us all!
 
2013-11-25 12:49:13 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: EvilEgg: I don't know which is worse, believing your own propaganda or buying the other side's.  The country is not in love with the ACA, but most don't hate it either.

I think in the end it will be irrelevant compared to the economy, which still seems to be the biggest driver.

By that measure, it seems Democrats in power will get a "meh" to "good" governance rating by the general populace, assuming the somewhat anemic economic recovery keeps rolling.


Democrats get a C, Republicans get expelled and sent to military school. Republicans turns around and sneer about Democrats not getting an A.
 
2013-11-25 12:52:22 PM  

Skleenar: Hmm:  Politico Headline: "
Dems worry leaders in denial on Obamacare"

but curiously don't supply any quotes from "dems" saying this....


[imageshack.us image 214x400]


Well to be fair they did mention "one Democratic pollster who is a veteran of competitive congressional races" being concerned.

And some polls showing that Barack Obama probably won't be re-elected.
 
2013-11-25 01:03:36 PM  
What? Democrats are getting cold feet and are too afraid to see their actions through? Shocker!

Time to burn the farking ships. There is only one direction available to us, and that is forward. Nut up and make it work.

I really don't like the GOP, but at least they commit.
 
2013-11-25 01:04:51 PM  

cman: Mentat: Translation:  The Blue Dogs are going to panic and run away from the President and get slaughtered in the mid-terms, just like in 2010.

Translation: Hey, at least we didn't fark it up as bad as the GOP farked up Iraq


Comparing a website to a trillion-dollar war. There's a winning analogy.
 
2013-11-25 01:08:55 PM  
On one hand, it's ridiculous to be thinking about the 2014 midterms.  Nothing we predict is going to have more than a random correlation to what happens in 11 months.

On the other hand, it's a slow month for politics.  If we didn't create fake controversies, how would we fill up 24-hours cable news?  What would we do with our hordes of idling unskilled pundits?  What about them?  About what their richly deserved unemployment would do to the economy?
 
2013-11-25 01:13:50 PM  

Captain Dan: On one hand, it's ridiculous to be thinking about the 2014 midterms.  Nothing we predict is going to have more than a random correlation to what happens in 11 months.

On the other hand, it's a slow month for politics.  If we didn't create fake controversies, how would we fill up 24-hours cable news?  What would we do with our hordes of idling unskilled pundits?  What about them?  About what their richly deserved unemployment would do to the economy?


I suggest gladiatorial arenas.
 
2013-11-25 01:14:31 PM  
media.salon.com
 
2013-11-25 01:16:00 PM  
The launch was bad. Bad bad bad. Terrible bad. That was a digital kickoff of such epically farked proportions that Blizzard and EA teaming up their incompetence couldn't have done a worse job.

That said, the launch of the site was a small portion of the law and the sweeping new protections and benefits that tens of millions of Americans who already have healthcare coverage are enjoying have nothing to do with the site.

That said, Americans are complete morons so healthcare.gov is pretty much the only thing they actually know about Obamacare and it will completely set their minds on the law, so I can definitely see why smarter democrats are worried about the political implications.

Democrats continue to have way too much faith in voters. Yes, the bungled launch of the site will ultimately have little impact on the law, but the fact is that to be well-informed about this issue - like most complex topics - you have to actually pay attention to something more than one of the big three news networks and most people won't.

So... yea... ride that optimism right into the ground. Although, considering the stammering idiots republicans have been dredging out of the Boston harbor, maybe you don't have that much to worry about after all.
 
2013-11-25 01:24:52 PM  

Captain Dan: On one hand, it's ridiculous to be thinking about the 2014 midterms.  Nothing we predict is going to have more than a random correlation to what happens in 11 months.

On the other hand, it's a slow month for politics.  If we didn't create fake controversies, how would we fill up 24-hours cable news?  What would we do with our hordes of idling unskilled pundits?  What about them?  About what their richly deserved unemployment would do to the economy?


That's a bipartisan laser-like focus on jobs.
 
2013-11-25 01:28:56 PM  
 
2013-11-25 01:30:26 PM  

skozlaw: That said, the launch of the site was a small portion of the law and the sweeping new protections and benefits that tens of millions of Americans who already have healthcare coverage are enjoying have nothing to do with the site.


What flavor is the kool-aid you're drinking?

That said, Americans are complete morons...

I can't disagree with you there. Look who they've been voting for the past couple of decades.
 
2013-11-25 01:37:36 PM  
images.politico.com

sounds concerned
 
2013-11-25 02:12:18 PM  

Wendy's Chili: [media.salon.com image 750x500]


Who is this asshole again I forget?
 
2013-11-25 02:37:34 PM  

Heliovdrake: Wendy's Chili: [media.salon.com image 750x500]

Who is this asshole again I forget?


Mike Allen.

I didn't click the link, but given that the URL reads "dems-worry-leaders-in-denial-on-oba," I'd bet $50 he or Jim Vandahei wrote the story.
 
2013-11-25 02:39:32 PM  

Heliovdrake: Wendy's Chili: [media.salon.com image 750x500]

Who is this asshole again I forget?


Mike Allen. Hoarder, weirdo and author of The Playbook in Politico, which reports on what political junkies are talking about today, which then drives the rest of the media coverage. Is all of America so enthralled with a rule change in the senate that their votes in 2014 will be based on it? Well it's all the buzz on the hill and everyone in America thinks like a 4 term senator.

Also, if you give him cash, he'll apparently tell the world that everyone on capital hill is all abuzz about your company.
 
2013-11-25 03:06:27 PM  

Wendy's Chili: [media.salon.com image 750x500]


Seriously, this guy, who sets the daily talking point in the media emanating from DC each morning, is a freakin idiot.

I read the whole article and the dominant take away I get is that Politico is little more than a RightWing site for those who really don't want genuine understanding.

Jim VandeHei and John Harris should hang their head in shame. They were bought and paid for, now they to deliver to their Master, who was a Reagan's Appointment screener and later his Chief Depends changer
 
2013-11-25 03:09:52 PM  
Politico seems tremendously concerned today.
 
2013-11-25 03:11:41 PM  
Well they are right, because if they were really Democrats they would be calling for massive new taxes, massive increase in Social Security, an Employer of Last Resort bill, and a five trillion dollar stimulus focused on rebuilding roads, bridges, schools, hospitals, water treatment, sewage treatment, fiber optic cables run to every home, etc...

Nope for the last 6 years we have gotten a weak health care insurance reform, massive guts to government spending, a retreat on social programs, if the last six years had taken place between 1980-1988 the Republican party would be trying to canonize the president.
 
2013-11-25 03:12:23 PM  

BSABSVR: Heliovdrake: Wendy's Chili: [media.salon.com image 750x500]

Who is this asshole again I forget?

Mike Allen. Hoarder, weirdo and author of The Playbook in Politico, which reports on what political junkies are talking about today, which then drives the rest of the media coverage. Is all of America so enthralled with a rule change in the senate that their votes in 2014 will be based on it? Well it's all the buzz on the hill and everyone in America thinks like a 4 term senator.

Also, if you give him cash, he'll apparently tell the world that everyone on capital hill is all abuzz about your company.


Alex Pareene covered this fairly well, amongst others.
 
2013-11-25 03:13:57 PM  
That's not all, they also woke up pregnant and it's now illegal to have an abortion.
 
2013-11-25 04:00:36 PM  
Hey....  I thought the Dems said we would get $2500 off per family....     you mean that was a lie too ??

Holy crap this Obamacare is a dud.
 
2013-11-25 04:11:57 PM  
The depressing thing is that there are people who who allow tripe like TFA to shape their politics.

At this point, we should be ignoring all "criticism" of ACA and exposing the Republican party reactionary waste of resources for what it is.
 
2013-11-25 04:13:44 PM  
So many articles popping up about Democrats retreating, pretty soon it will be the narrative, then the truth, then 2010 all over again.  If the Democrats capitulate or make any concessions regarding extensions or delays, then the issue will pop up again and again every few months until the election, all but ensuring this kabuki theater will remain fresh in voters' minds.

And then, the Republicans will win elections, which will empower them to believe they have a mandate, which will cause them to push even further right, which will drag the Democrats further right, which will drag the country further right, which will result in even further eroding of civil liberties and enrichment of the top 1% at the cost of the average taxpayer.

Happens every time.
 
2013-11-25 04:15:12 PM  

Elandriel: So many articles popping up about Democrats retreating, pretty soon it will be the narrative, then the truth, then 2010 all over again.  If the Democrats capitulate or make any concessions regarding extensions or delays, then the issue will pop up again and again every few months until the election, all but ensuring this kabuki theater will remain fresh in voters' minds.

And then, the Republicans will win elections, which will empower them to believe they have a mandate, which will cause them to push even further right, which will drag the Democrats further right, which will drag the country further right, which will result in even further eroding of civil liberties and enrichment of the top 1% at the cost of the average taxpayer.

Happens every time.


We've got to break this cycle. Something has to happen to bring the Republican party down. To where they can't even run a candidate in 2016.
 
2013-11-25 04:22:22 PM  

whidbey: Elandriel: So many articles popping up about Democrats retreating, pretty soon it will be the narrative, then the truth, then 2010 all over again.  If the Democrats capitulate or make any concessions regarding extensions or delays, then the issue will pop up again and again every few months until the election, all but ensuring this kabuki theater will remain fresh in voters' minds.

And then, the Republicans will win elections, which will empower them to believe they have a mandate, which will cause them to push even further right, which will drag the Democrats further right, which will drag the country further right, which will result in even further eroding of civil liberties and enrichment of the top 1% at the cost of the average taxpayer.

Happens every time.

We've got to break this cycle. Something has to happen to bring the Republican party down. To where they can't even run a candidate in 2016.


Find a way to take over MSNBC, FOX and CNN.  The rest of the charade would crumble.  The 24 hour news cycle endlessly dredging up past scandals, ginning up controversies and generally muddying the waters is why this situation exists.  For them there is no "truth" anymore, there's just packaging.

If their influence were decreased or otherwise eliminated, we might as a nation have a chance of breaking the stranglehold of misinformation that benefits the Republicand almost wholly.  As it stands, it's going to be a very bumpy ride while we wait out demographic shifts.
 
2013-11-25 04:23:16 PM  

whidbey: Elandriel: So many articles popping up about Democrats retreating, pretty soon it will be the narrative, then the truth, then 2010 all over again.  If the Democrats capitulate or make any concessions regarding extensions or delays, then the issue will pop up again and again every few months until the election, all but ensuring this kabuki theater will remain fresh in voters' minds.

And then, the Republicans will win elections, which will empower them to believe they have a mandate, which will cause them to push even further right, which will drag the Democrats further right, which will drag the country further right, which will result in even further eroding of civil liberties and enrichment of the top 1% at the cost of the average taxpayer.

Happens every time.

We've got to break this cycle. Something has to happen to bring the Republican party down. To where they can't even run a candidate in 2016.


Christie's prospects in the GOP primaries do not look so good, but he'll have the big money behind him like Rmoney did. He's also a loudmouth jerk which will help endear him to the GOP base. He's their only non-clown candidate for 2016, although a serious weight-related health issue or two would go a long way in derailing his presidential candidacy.
 
2013-11-25 04:29:51 PM  
The Dems should get someone on the inside of the NJ Governor's Office and bring in ultra-fat saturated doughnuts, coffee cake, strudel, etc and just flood the office with it around Christie. A double or triple portion of butter and lard could just tip the scales of history in the Democrat's favor, and there's a good few years to work on building up extra plaque. Also, somebody needs to get the chief in the Governor's mansion in on this.
 
2013-11-25 04:48:37 PM  

LordJiro: Captain Dan: On one hand, it's ridiculous to be thinking about the 2014 midterms.  Nothing we predict is going to have more than a random correlation to what happens in 11 months.

On the other hand, it's a slow month for politics.  If we didn't create fake controversies, how would we fill up 24-hours cable news?  What would we do with our hordes of idling unskilled pundits?  What about them?  About what their richly deserved unemployment would do to the economy?

I suggest gladiatorial arenas.


Auto-da-fes are fun.
 
2013-11-25 05:05:55 PM  

EvilEgg: I don't know which is worse, believing your own propaganda or buying the other side's.  The country is not in love with the ACA, but most don't hate it either.

I think in the end it will be irrelevant compared to the economy, which still seems to be the biggest driver.



Yea promoting an economic atmosphere that would create jobs was to hard. But forcing people into a collective and then patting themselves on the back and telling each other how they saved the American people from poor healthcare was easier.
 
2013-11-25 05:09:10 PM  

meat0918: Mentat: Translation:  The Blue Dogs are going to panic and run away from the President and get slaughtered in the mid-terms, just like in 2010.

Are there any Blue Dogs really left?


yeah my senator Mary Landrieu. she's getting carpet bombed by AFP ads right now about she voted for the ACA. and you know given who created and is buying the ad time the ads are chock full of lies.

Obama got 42% of the vote in 2012 here so i'm going with "this too shall pass". by 2014 the ACA will be helping folks all over the state, the fact that Jindal refuses medicaid expansion will be annoying the hell out of those who might have got it and Mary will sweep in on a wave of .... ok maybe not a wave but i'm guessing she will get reelected.
 
2013-11-25 05:18:18 PM  

pmdgrwr: EvilEgg: I don't know which is worse, believing your own propaganda or buying the other side's.  The country is not in love with the ACA, but most don't hate it either.

I think in the end it will be irrelevant compared to the economy, which still seems to be the biggest driver.


Yea promoting an economic atmosphere that would create jobs was to hard. But forcing people into a collective and then patting themselves on the back and telling each other how they saved the American people from poor healthcare was easier.


So, you used to eat a lot of lead paint as a child.
 
2013-11-25 06:36:01 PM  

whidbey: Elandriel: So many articles popping up about Democrats retreating, pretty soon it will be the narrative, then the truth, then 2010 all over again.  If the Democrats capitulate or make any concessions regarding extensions or delays, then the issue will pop up again and again every few months until the election, all but ensuring this kabuki theater will remain fresh in voters' minds.

And then, the Republicans will win elections, which will empower them to believe they have a mandate, which will cause them to push even further right, which will drag the Democrats further right, which will drag the country further right, which will result in even further eroding of civil liberties and enrichment of the top 1% at the cost of the average taxpayer.

Happens every time.

We've got to break this cycle. Something has to happen to bring the Republican party down. To where they can't even run a candidate in 2016.


Just need the democrats to do something that everyone can get behind, like punishing Wall Street, or restricting the NSA.

Something populist.
 
2013-11-25 06:44:23 PM  

sendtodave: whidbey: Elandriel: So many articles popping up about Democrats retreating, pretty soon it will be the narrative, then the truth, then 2010 all over again.  If the Democrats capitulate or make any concessions regarding extensions or delays, then the issue will pop up again and again every few months until the election, all but ensuring this kabuki theater will remain fresh in voters' minds.

And then, the Republicans will win elections, which will empower them to believe they have a mandate, which will cause them to push even further right, which will drag the Democrats further right, which will drag the country further right, which will result in even further eroding of civil liberties and enrichment of the top 1% at the cost of the average taxpayer.

Happens every time.

We've got to break this cycle. Something has to happen to bring the Republican party down. To where they can't even run a candidate in 2016.

Just need the democrats to do something that everyone can get behind, like punishing Wall Street, or restricting the NSA.

Something populist.


I think you're underestimating the amount of outrage the right-wing propaganda mill can drum up. These two are easy: "Tax and spend Democrats want to criminalize job creators", "Democrats weaken national security, leave US open to attack", etc.
 
2013-11-25 06:55:21 PM  

Elandriel: If the Democrats capitulate or make any concessions regarding extensions or delays, then the issue will pop up again and again


The proper response to that kind of behaviour has been known for a looooooooong time. I've always liked how Kipling described it:
It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation
To call upon a neighbour and to say: --
"We invaded you last night--we are quite prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away."

And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
And the people who ask it explain
That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld
And then you'll get rid of the Dane!

It is always a temptation for a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say: --
"Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away."

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray;
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say: --

"We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that pays it is lost!"
 
2013-11-25 07:24:31 PM  

netcentric: Hey....  I thought the Dems said we would get $2500 off per family....     you mean that was a lie too ??


Nobody said that about the Affordable Care Act.  Obama said that was the projected savings for his original healthcare proposal from back in 2008.  The ACA had to be greatly modified from Obama's original ideas in order to secure the 60 votes needed to break the Republican filibuster, and a number of measures were dumped, including the public option that was supposed to be one of the major factors driving prices down.

It's too early to tell what the long-term financial impacts will be.  The biggest unknowns are how the reimbursement model changes (the ACOs) will affect the price of care.  There's a lot of interest in the provider arena but not a lot of data yet.
 
2013-11-25 10:11:07 PM  

cman: EvilEgg: I don't know which is worse, believing your own propaganda or buying the other side's.  The country is not in love with the ACA, but most don't hate it either.

I think in the end it will be irrelevant compared to the economy, which still seems to be the biggest driver.

Collective denialism befalls all societies.


Except it isn't, the Conservative Mainstream Media just wishes it was.

/repeat it often enough, people WILL believe it!

netcentric: Hey....  I thought the Dems said we would get $2500 off per family....     you mean that was a lie too ??

Holy crap this Obamacare is a dud.


Yeah, after the Republicans gutted it, a LOT of things turned out to be lies...retroactively, of course.
 
2013-11-26 07:18:39 AM  

netcentric: Hey....  I thought


[citationneeded]
 
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