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(ESPN)   Cardinals sgin Jhonny Peralta   (espn.go.com) divider line 43
    More: Cool, Jhonny Peralta, Cardinals, Daniel Descalso, Peter Bourjos, World Series MVP, Major League Baseball, Rafael Furcal, John Smoltz  
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852 clicks; posted to Sports » on 24 Nov 2013 at 8:43 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-24 08:46:43 PM
Remember folks: PEDs are bad and the owners are doing everything possible to get them out of the game.
 
2013-11-24 08:53:40 PM
We'll we already know the cardinals dont care if their players take performance enhancing drugs.
 
2013-11-24 08:57:46 PM
He served his suspension. He's getting tested and is clean now. I don't see the issue.

This is a league that let a pitcher write a book about all the ways he cheats, while he was playing, and let him continue to cheat his ass iff.
 
2013-11-24 09:03:49 PM

DeWayne Mann: Remember folks: PEDs are bad and the owners are doing everything possible to get them out of the game.


As an owner, if you're stupid enough to sign a guy like him to a contract worth that much then good for you.
 
2013-11-24 09:06:03 PM
Waht?
 
2013-11-24 09:16:12 PM
good one, sbuby
 
2013-11-24 09:16:45 PM

DeWayne Mann: Remember folks: PEDs are bad and the owners are doing everything possible to get them out of the game.


Yup.  They didn't even have to cut him a discount.  $50M is about what you'd project for 4 years of Peralta if you knew nothing about the PED suspension.  He's a better defender than you'd guess by looking, and he's an above-average bat for a middle infielder.

Doesn't that suggest that the owners don't think PEDs do all that much?  I mean, they're signing a guy who's going to be under heavy scrutiny, and is very likely to go from a user to a non-user in these four years.  But they're paying him like the PEDs never happened.
 
2013-11-24 09:26:26 PM
All the outrage from this will cause the players to demand harasser penalties for users. The owners of the Cardinals are paying $52 million dollars for that change.
 
2013-11-24 09:31:22 PM

meanmutton: He served his suspension. He's getting tested and is clean now. I don't see the issue.

This is a league that let a pitcher write a book about all the ways he cheats, while he was playing, and let him continue to cheat his ass iff.


Lol at thinking the testing catches the users. He never failed a test when he was juicing, he was only caught because the Biogenesis guy owed money.

MLB drug tests are really, really easy to beat
 
2013-11-24 09:44:44 PM

machoprogrammer: meanmutton: He served his suspension. He's getting tested and is clean now. I don't see the issue.

This is a league that let a pitcher write a book about all the ways he cheats, while he was playing, and let him continue to cheat his ass iff.

Lol at thinking the testing catches the users. He never failed a test when he was juicing, he was only caught because the Biogenesis guy owed money.

MLB drug tests are really, really easy to beat


Well why don't you enlighten us how to beat a MLB drug test.
 
2013-11-24 09:53:52 PM

DeWayne Mann: Remember folks: PEDs are bad and the owners are doing everything possible to get them out of the game.


WTF Indeed: DeWayne Mann: Remember folks: PEDs are bad and the owners are doing everything possible to get them out of the game.

As an owner, if you're stupid enough to sign a guy like him to a contract worth that much then good for you.


I have to say I would go totally PED until I was caught. It would lead to me making the big bucks that I can retire on. After I get caught, I stop and live off my PED years.

It seems to be the MLB way
 
2013-11-24 10:01:56 PM

machoprogrammer: He never failed a test


Which means nothing compared to who his friends are?

You guys are all new to this professional sports business I see.
 
2013-11-24 10:03:55 PM

WTF Indeed: machoprogrammer: meanmutton: He served his suspension. He's getting tested and is clean now. I don't see the issue.

This is a league that let a pitcher write a book about all the ways he cheats, while he was playing, and let him continue to cheat his ass iff.

Lol at thinking the testing catches the users. He never failed a test when he was juicing, he was only caught because the Biogenesis guy owed money.

MLB drug tests are really, really easy to beat

Well why don't you enlighten us how to beat a MLB drug test.


They test the player's testosterone to epitestosterone ratio (average person is 1.2:1, high end athletes are sometimes 2:1, genetic freaks can get up to 4:1 or 6:1 or so). If the A sample ratio is > 4:1 (or 6:1, I forget), they check the B sample for synthetic testosterone (more expensive test).

If B is synthetic, bam, positive test. So they keep the ratio under the threshold OR they raise epitestosterone, too, to keep the ratio lower. Hence masking agents
 
2013-11-24 10:05:52 PM
Would it be possible for a MLB team to structure a contract that voids that contract if a player tested positive for PEDs while under that contract?
 
2013-11-24 10:05:54 PM
Oh and that's one way to do it. Designer roids are undetectable, and hgh tests are also very unreliable from what I've heard (are they even testing for HGH in the majors yet?)
 
2013-11-24 10:40:57 PM

bearded clamorer: Would it be possible for a MLB team to structure a contract that voids that contract if a player tested positive for PEDs while under that contract?


Sure but good luck getting players
 
2013-11-24 10:46:18 PM
*
 
2013-11-24 10:50:26 PM

machoprogrammer: WTF Indeed: machoprogrammer: meanmutton: He served his suspension. He's getting tested and is clean now. I don't see the issue.

This is a league that let a pitcher write a book about all the ways he cheats, while he was playing, and let him continue to cheat his ass iff.

Lol at thinking the testing catches the users. He never failed a test when he was juicing, he was only caught because the Biogenesis guy owed money.

MLB drug tests are really, really easy to beat

Well why don't you enlighten us how to beat a MLB drug test.

They test the player's testosterone to epitestosterone ratio (average person is 1.2:1, high end athletes are sometimes 2:1, genetic freaks can get up to 4:1 or 6:1 or so). If the A sample ratio is > 4:1 (or 6:1, I forget), they check the B sample for synthetic testosterone (more expensive test).

If B is synthetic, bam, positive test. So they keep the ratio under the threshold OR they raise epitestosterone, too, to keep the ratio lower. Hence masking agents


I read that years ago and could have sworn it had to be a joke, that kind of testing would be simple to beat. If they dont test for masking then its simple to beat any test.
 
2013-11-24 11:30:33 PM

steamingpile: machoprogrammer: WTF Indeed: machoprogrammer: meanmutton: He served his suspension. He's getting tested and is clean now. I don't see the issue.

This is a league that let a pitcher write a book about all the ways he cheats, while he was playing, and let him continue to cheat his ass iff.

Lol at thinking the testing catches the users. He never failed a test when he was juicing, he was only caught because the Biogenesis guy owed money.

MLB drug tests are really, really easy to beat

Well why don't you enlighten us how to beat a MLB drug test.

They test the player's testosterone to epitestosterone ratio (average person is 1.2:1, high end athletes are sometimes 2:1, genetic freaks can get up to 4:1 or 6:1 or so). If the A sample ratio is > 4:1 (or 6:1, I forget), they check the B sample for synthetic testosterone (more expensive test).

If B is synthetic, bam, positive test. So they keep the ratio under the threshold OR they raise epitestosterone, too, to keep the ratio lower. Hence masking agents

I read that years ago and could have sworn it had to be a joke, that kind of testing would be simple to beat. If they dont test for masking then its simple to beat any test.


Yeah, it's pretty funny how they do that. It's really just enough to be an annoyance. MLB acts like biogenesis is the only clinic that does what they did. Theres many similar clinics out there.
 
2013-11-24 11:48:03 PM

bearded clamorer: Would it be possible for a MLB team to structure a contract that voids that contract if a player tested positive for PEDs while under that contract?


Nope.  That would violate the CBA and contracts which violate the CBA aren't valid.
 
2013-11-24 11:49:16 PM

chimp_ninja: DeWayne Mann: Remember folks: PEDs are bad and the owners are doing everything possible to get them out of the game.

Yup.  They didn't even have to cut him a discount.  $50M is about what you'd project for 4 years of Peralta if you knew nothing about the PED suspension.  He's a better defender than you'd guess by looking, and he's an above-average bat for a middle infielder.

Doesn't that suggest that the owners don't think PEDs do all that much?  I mean, they're signing a guy who's going to be under heavy scrutiny, and is very likely to go from a user to a non-user in these four years.  But they're paying him like the PEDs never happened.


His best offensive years were after the league started testing.
 
2013-11-24 11:57:44 PM

machoprogrammer: Oh and that's one way to do it. Designer roids are undetectable, and hgh tests are also very unreliable from what I've heard (are they even testing for HGH in the majors yet?)


They began testing for HGH in-season during the 2013 regular season.No idea about reliability.

"Designer roids" are also generally lacking in legitimate medical testing, and you're getting them illegally.  (Many common PEDs are prescribed for other medical uses, so they've undergone FDA evaluation, etc.  They can have nasty side effects, but at least they're known.)  I'm not saying it's impossible, but you're putting your life in the hands of whatever Walter White that made the stuff.
 
2013-11-25 12:26:36 AM
Honestly, there was some interesting statistical analysis which suggested that testing for PEDs hurt pitchers worse than position players but testing for amphetamines brought things back in order.  I can't find it, though, so don't trust me.
 
2013-11-25 12:42:18 AM
I'll miss him a little bit, even with the PEDs scandal he had a good last season. I don't think he's worth that much though.
 
2013-11-25 12:50:14 AM
I thought this would be a jhoke?
 
2013-11-25 02:19:50 AM
Dwyane Wade unavailable for comment.

/Seriously spell your kids' names right ffs.
 
2013-11-25 03:07:59 AM
Who else are the Cardinals supposed to sign that won't cost them Miller, Wong, Tavares, Adams, or Wacha? And they aren't losing a Comp pick... seems like a win/win for a team that was in desperate need for a shortstop. Possible line up of Carpenter, Wong, Holliday, Craig, Adams, Yadi, Jhonny, and Boguris (sp?) With Tavares on the bench... sounds pretty solid.
 
2013-11-25 07:45:42 AM
*
 
2013-11-25 08:44:27 AM

meanmutton: bearded clamorer: Would it be possible for a MLB team to structure a contract that voids that contract if a player tested positive for PEDs while under that contract?

Nope.  That would violate the CBA and contracts which violate the CBA aren't valid.


But they can add a "conduct detrimental to the team" clause.

That being said, the owners are idiots.  They are basing the huge contracts on players' performance while they were using PEDs.

If the players really cared about PED use, the next CBA would have the clause "a player forfeits free agency for 2 years if testing positive for a PED".
 
2013-11-25 08:45:18 AM

JSam21: Who else are the Cardinals supposed to sign that won't cost them Miller, Wong, Tavares, Adams, or Wacha? And they aren't losing a Comp pick... seems like a win/win for a team that was in desperate need for a shortstop. Possible line up of Carpenter, Wong, Holliday, Craig, Adams, Yadi, Jhonny, and Boguris (sp?) With Tavares on the bench... sounds pretty solid.


I hope he gets Dickie Thoned
 
2013-11-25 09:11:01 AM
Broktun: I hope he gets Dickie Thoned

Wow! You hope he get  partially blinded by a pitched ball.

That is scary.
 
2013-11-25 09:53:23 AM
I think you meant Cradinals
 
2013-11-25 10:02:16 AM
Stop being so pissed about players busted for PEDs.  Lots of the guys who don't piss positive are also juicing.
 
2013-11-25 12:39:03 PM

DeWayne Mann: Remember folks: PEDs are bad and the owners are doing everything possible to get them out of the game.


Whatever.  The guy did the time as dictated by the CBA between MLB and the MLBPA.  I'm not getting this whole "Ostracize the player for life even at the expense of the potential success of your franchise."

Cardinals needed a short stop in an off season where no other free agents were available that wouldn't have cost a compensation draft pick.  They gave up nothing but cash, which they have in abundance at the moment.  The Cardinal owners were supposed to pass on Peralta and wheel out Pete Kozma again or get raked over the coals by Boras for Drew because of moral indignation?  Fark that.
 
2013-11-25 12:56:41 PM
Look, this was a fantastic signing by the Cards. Jhonny can field his position well and he can obviously rake. From everything I've read the last couple of days, this is a totally fair market contract.


HOWEVAH (in my best Screamin A. Smith voice), the baseball media will now kindly need to shut up about how the Cards "do it the right way".

Hell, I think that Jhonny is entitled to this contract. He served his time and is good at what he does. But if a team signs a known cheat, you have to stop putting them on a pedestal.

//for the record, the Cards have done it the right way. Their drafts and minor league system is awesome.
 
2013-11-25 01:28:09 PM

Shrugging Atlas: DeWayne Mann: Remember folks: PEDs are bad and the owners are doing everything possible to get them out of the game.

Whatever.  The guy did the time as dictated by the CBA between MLB and the MLBPA.  I'm not getting this whole "Ostracize the player for life even at the expense of the potential success of your franchise."

Cardinals needed a short stop in an off season where no other free agents were available that wouldn't have cost a compensation draft pick.  They gave up nothing but cash, which they have in abundance at the moment.  The Cardinal owners were supposed to pass on Peralta and wheel out Pete Kozma again or get raked over the coals by Boras for Drew because of moral indignation?  Fark that.


Boston has a guy on their roster who failed a test but somehow managed to avoid getting suspended because the guy writing the report for MLB worked for the Red Sox so let's leave the moral indignation at the door.  The idea that the owners give two craps about positive tests is a joke.

Let's keep in mind too, this was not a recent test.  He failed the test during spring training 2012 and it took MLB until mid-2013 to do anything about it.  At least he didn't 'Ryan Braun' the collector and call him anti-semitic in the press and go on TV and lie about getting caught.
 
2013-11-25 03:12:52 PM
It pays to cheat. Who didn't know this?
 
2013-11-25 04:05:05 PM

bluenote13: Shrugging Atlas: DeWayne Mann: Remember folks: PEDs are bad and the owners are doing everything possible to get them out of the game.

Whatever.  The guy did the time as dictated by the CBA between MLB and the MLBPA.  I'm not getting this whole "Ostracize the player for life even at the expense of the potential success of your franchise."

Cardinals needed a short stop in an off season where no other free agents were available that wouldn't have cost a compensation draft pick.  They gave up nothing but cash, which they have in abundance at the moment.  The Cardinal owners were supposed to pass on Peralta and wheel out Pete Kozma again or get raked over the coals by Boras for Drew because of moral indignation?  Fark that.

Boston has a guy on their roster who failed a test but somehow managed to avoid getting suspended because the guy writing the report for MLB worked for the Red Sox so let's leave the moral indignation at the door.  The idea that the owners give two craps about positive tests is a joke.

Let's keep in mind too, this was not a recent test.  He failed the test during spring training 2012 and it took MLB until mid-2013 to do anything about it.  At least he didn't 'Ryan Braun' the collector and call him anti-semitic in the press and go on TV and lie about getting caught.


Who was that? I don't remember that.

But the players and owners (and likely Selig, too) don't want them out of the game. If they truly did, more accurate (and expensive) tests would be done, instead of being vetoed by the players union (who totally want the game clean, of course). They just want the illusion that "you pass a real easily beatable test? YOU ARE CLEAN!"
 
2013-11-25 04:44:46 PM

machoprogrammer: bluenote13: Shrugging Atlas: DeWayne Mann: Remember folks: PEDs are bad and the owners are doing everything possible to get them out of the game.

Whatever.  The guy did the time as dictated by the CBA between MLB and the MLBPA.  I'm not getting this whole "Ostracize the player for life even at the expense of the potential success of your franchise."

Cardinals needed a short stop in an off season where no other free agents were available that wouldn't have cost a compensation draft pick.  They gave up nothing but cash, which they have in abundance at the moment.  The Cardinal owners were supposed to pass on Peralta and wheel out Pete Kozma again or get raked over the coals by Boras for Drew because of moral indignation?  Fark that.

Boston has a guy on their roster who failed a test but somehow managed to avoid getting suspended because the guy writing the report for MLB worked for the Red Sox so let's leave the moral indignation at the door.  The idea that the owners give two craps about positive tests is a joke.

Let's keep in mind too, this was not a recent test.  He failed the test during spring training 2012 and it took MLB until mid-2013 to do anything about it.  At least he didn't 'Ryan Braun' the collector and call him anti-semitic in the press and go on TV and lie about getting caught.

Who was that? I don't remember that.

But the players and owners (and likely Selig, too) don't want them out of the game. If they truly did, more accurate (and expensive) tests would be done, instead of being vetoed by the players union (who totally want the game clean, of course). They just want the illusion that "you pass a real easily beatable test? YOU ARE CLEAN!"


There have been allegation, and some say proof exsists, that Ortiz failed a drug test while Manny was with the Red Sox.  You will never see the proof though because George Mitchell was a director for the Red Sox when he was picked to head the investigation in to steroid use in MLB.

There is some circumstantianal evidence that Mitchell might have been biased (sarcasm).  There were a  number of Yankees on the report and no Red Sox were there which was amazing since the team had Manny Ramirez who was busted numerous times.  Amazingly, there were no Brewers on the report, a team once owned by Selig who commissioned the report.

Also, Ortiz was a guy cut by the Twins with marginal numbers at the time who 'discovered his swing' in Boston, by coincidence on the team with Ramirez.
 
2013-11-25 05:21:32 PM

bluenote13: machoprogrammer: bluenote13: Shrugging Atlas: DeWayne Mann: Remember folks: PEDs are bad and the owners are doing everything possible to get them out of the game.

Whatever.  The guy did the time as dictated by the CBA between MLB and the MLBPA.  I'm not getting this whole "Ostracize the player for life even at the expense of the potential success of your franchise."

Cardinals needed a short stop in an off season where no other free agents were available that wouldn't have cost a compensation draft pick.  They gave up nothing but cash, which they have in abundance at the moment.  The Cardinal owners were supposed to pass on Peralta and wheel out Pete Kozma again or get raked over the coals by Boras for Drew because of moral indignation?  Fark that.

Boston has a guy on their roster who failed a test but somehow managed to avoid getting suspended because the guy writing the report for MLB worked for the Red Sox so let's leave the moral indignation at the door.  The idea that the owners give two craps about positive tests is a joke.

Let's keep in mind too, this was not a recent test.  He failed the test during spring training 2012 and it took MLB until mid-2013 to do anything about it.  At least he didn't 'Ryan Braun' the collector and call him anti-semitic in the press and go on TV and lie about getting caught.

Who was that? I don't remember that.

But the players and owners (and likely Selig, too) don't want them out of the game. If they truly did, more accurate (and expensive) tests would be done, instead of being vetoed by the players union (who totally want the game clean, of course). They just want the illusion that "you pass a real easily beatable test? YOU ARE CLEAN!"

There have been allegation, and some say proof exsists, that Ortiz failed a drug test while Manny was with the Red Sox.  You will never see the proof though because George Mitchell was a director for the Red Sox when he was picked to head the investigation in to steroid use in MLB.

There is ...


Yeah, Ortiz did test positive in 2003. He claims he doesn't know how he failed the test (lol) and some Red Sox fans claim he didn't fail a test because MLB never said what he tested positive for (as if he would test positive for cookies), even though MLB didn't release what anyone who tested positive in 2003 tested positive for by agreement.
 
2013-11-25 05:24:31 PM

bluenote13: Also, Ortiz was a guy cut by the Twins with marginal numbers at the time who 'discovered his swing' in Boston, by coincidence on the team with Ramirez.


Oh, I agree with you. Ortiz is likely juiced off his ass. There are people who claim you can't use power numbers or muscle-gain amounts (or person's physique) to say someone was juicing. The people who claim the latter have obviously never weightlifted in their life, I might add.
 
2013-11-25 05:24:58 PM

machoprogrammer: ut the players and owners (and likely Selig, too) don't want them out of the game. If they truly did, more accurate (and expensive) tests would be done, instead of being vetoed by the players union (who totally want the game clean, of course). They just want the illusion that "you pass a real easily beatable test? YOU ARE CLEAN!"


I have to be perfectly honest:  I'm really OK with that.

Nobody really gives a shiat about this at the end of the day.  Not the owners, not the players, not Selig, and not the MLBPA.  But the most important group of all that doesn't give a shiat:  The fans.  They still go to the games, watch the games on TV, and spend tons on merchandise.  Until THAT changes, nothing else will.

So where does that leave us?  All those aforementioned groups can't just come out and say, "You know what, we really don't give a shiat about this and at the end of the day this is a business, and business is good."  The only people that really get indignant about this are a small but vocal group of fans, and only then when the player in question is either someone everyone already hated (A-Rod) or they are chasing some long standing record.
 
2013-11-25 06:23:05 PM

Shrugging Atlas: machoprogrammer: ut the players and owners (and likely Selig, too) don't want them out of the game. If they truly did, more accurate (and expensive) tests would be done, instead of being vetoed by the players union (who totally want the game clean, of course). They just want the illusion that "you pass a real easily beatable test? YOU ARE CLEAN!"

I have to be perfectly honest:  I'm really OK with that.

Nobody really gives a shiat about this at the end of the day.  Not the owners, not the players, not Selig, and not the MLBPA.  But the most important group of all that doesn't give a shiat:  The fans.  They still go to the games, watch the games on TV, and spend tons on merchandise.  Until THAT changes, nothing else will.

So where does that leave us?  All those aforementioned groups can't just come out and say, "You know what, we really don't give a shiat about this and at the end of the day this is a business, and business is good."  The only people that really get indignant about this are a small but vocal group of fans, and only then when the player in question is either someone everyone already hated (A-Rod) or they are chasing some long standing record.


I would like testing to get better.  If MLB can find a way to test better, I'm all for it.

I'm not interested in watching MLB make themselves look foolish trying to hunt down individual players.  For example, they got in the way of a Florida Department of Health investigation into Biogenesis.  That's bad.
 
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