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(io9)   In the nineteenth century, a geologist suggested that the United States should draw state lines based on watersheds. This is what it would look like. Wait, what's that state above California?   (io9.com) divider line 78
    More: Interesting, United States, resource allocation, geologists, GIS  
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13612 clicks; posted to Geek » on 23 Nov 2013 at 4:10 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



78 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-11-23 04:12:13 PM
That would be Organ, subby.
 
2013-11-23 04:14:13 PM
That might have alleviated the coming water wars.
 
2013-11-23 04:15:53 PM
Ohio looks like a gerrymandered district.

A long narrow strip along Lake Erie all the way up to Niagara Falls.
 
2013-11-23 04:18:23 PM
Farkland
 
2013-11-23 04:29:24 PM
That would be West Oregon subby. It's a lawless land where anything goes. Do you want to watch Hulk Hogan wrestle endangered Siberian tigers? Go to West Oregon. Would you like to smear dolphin pate on crackers? Go to West Oregon. Would you like to not only mount a gun on your cars trunk and be able to use it on tailgaters? Go to West Oregon.

West Oregon, where Americans go for a taste of debauchery.
 
2013-11-23 04:41:46 PM
Maybe it's Jefferson.
 
2013-11-23 04:45:03 PM
Now I want to mount a gun on a Siberian tiger and smear Hulk Hogan pate on a tailgating dolphin.
 
2013-11-23 04:47:35 PM
Actually, it looks like the Oregon Badlands, a patch of difficult terrain where a glacial lake scoured the watershed in the Missoula floods in the last ice age.
 
2013-11-23 04:48:10 PM
New York City, Connecticut is sufficiently confusing. I approve.
 
2013-11-23 04:49:45 PM
Confusion
 
2013-11-23 04:51:45 PM
I'd go with it just for the amusement of Oklahoma rivaling Texas in size.  Even if it means I'd have to live in Kansas.

/Just as long as we genocide the Mormons before Utah expands
 
2013-11-23 04:52:06 PM
It's the lower part of Washington.  Oregon doesn't go all the way to the ocean, so there's a thin strip connecting the two parts of Washington.
 
2013-11-23 04:59:00 PM

jcb274: It's the lower part of Washington.  Oregon doesn't go all the way to the ocean, so there's a thin strip connecting the two parts of Washington.


I dunno, I looked at the Flickr page and I think Oregon does have one spot where it hits Pacific Ocean, around the Tillamook Bay area.
 
2013-11-23 04:59:50 PM
Map fails: it still shows Texas.
 
2013-11-23 05:01:43 PM
I thought I understood what a watershed was, but if Georgia flows into both the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic, then I am either too smart to teach or too dumb to learn.
 
2013-11-23 05:11:20 PM

DrunkenBob: I'd go with it just for the amusement of Oklahoma rivaling Texas in size.  Even if it means I'd have to live in Kansas.

/Just as long as we genocide the Mormons before Utah expands


Speaking as someone that lived in north Texas for quite a while... water is a big farkin' political deal up there, to the point where folding it into Oklahoma officially wouldn't actually change that much in how much the governments of the areas have to work together.

I think this is the first "redraw the state lines" proposal where a lot of people would actually go for it, basically.

// Except the people in LA, who steal water like it's going out of style, so they'd probably block it.

crozzo: I thought I understood what a watershed was, but if Georgia flows into both the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic, then I am either too smart to teach or too dumb to learn.


Maybe they shoved two or three together to get something of similar size/population to current states?  That seems to be the case with CA too.
 
2013-11-23 05:13:33 PM
Sure, lump Las Vegas and Salt Lake City together in the same state. That'll work well.
 
2013-11-23 05:17:27 PM

Jim_Callahan: I think this is the first "redraw the state lines" proposal where a lot of people would actually go for it, basically.


I've seen much, much better ones. The names don't even make sense for some of these- his "Ohio" doesn't touch the Ohio River. His "Arkansas" is deprived of the Arkansas River. 

Also, Milwaukee, Illinois? Fark you. That'll go over about as well as his plain for Minneapolis, Wisconsin. 

This map is not even a realistic reflection of his proposals. He said new states in the West should have borders drawn that reflect, not strictly follow, watersheds. There are still plenty of other factors to consider.

/"How the States Got Their Shapes" is an excellent book on this topic
//the TV show less so
 
2013-11-23 05:26:48 PM
John Wesley Powell was "a geologist" the same way that Neil Armstrong was "a pilot."

I always wanted to see what his proposal would look like. The West looks pretty good. As for Las Vegas, it's only where it is to take advantage of state boundaries (and differing vice laws), so if these borders had been adopted originally, Sin City would have just been somewhere else. Somewhere not in Utah, presumably.

As for the East - yeah, it's a mess. But that was never part of Powell's proposal. It made a lot more sense in the arid West. And they don't mention it, but he made those trips down the Colorado after losing an arm in the Civil War. If you read his accounts of the trip, he never mentions the arm, even as he's paddling through rapids or scaling cliffs for a better view. Of course, Powell was also the guy who suggested cutting down all the trees in the West because they sucked up too much water, so perhaps we shouldn't give him too much credit.
 
2013-11-23 05:30:06 PM
District 13.
 
2013-11-23 05:35:09 PM

halfwaytoheaven: As for the East - yeah, it's a mess. But that was never part of Powell's proposal.


It's not like Powell failed to draw a map of his proposal. Here it is- basically (this is a map of actual drainage basins and not proposed states, but his proposals were pretty close to this with a few amalgamations of these districts).

communitybuilders.net
 
2013-11-23 05:35:26 PM

halfwaytoheaven: As for Las Vegas, it's only where it is to take advantage of state boundaries (and differing vice laws), so if these borders had been adopted originally, Sin City would have just been somewhere else. Somewhere not in Utah, presumably.


Vegas was founded as a railroad city in 1905 as a stopover on the way to California, it wasn't founded with the express intent of gambling and "sin" activities. Gambling wasn't legalized until 1931, and the Hoover Dam's completion in 1935 provided a reservoir in the form of Lake Mead just helped the city grow.
 
2013-11-23 05:37:50 PM
I would like to see how much of Arizona would extend into Sonora, or vice versa.
 
2013-11-23 05:38:32 PM
There's also a weird quasi-state near what became Worthington, MN. On this map, it's on the Missouri-Wisconsin border, northwest of Iowa.

/my head just exploded from typing that
 
2013-11-23 05:38:44 PM

halfwaytoheaven: As for Las Vegas, it's only where it is to take advantage of state boundaries (and differing vice laws), so if these borders had been adopted originally, Sin City would have just been somewhere else. Somewhere not in Utah, presumably.


It's still not as ambitious as what the Mormons originally came up with. Check out this ridiculousness:

www.lightplanet.com
 
2013-11-23 05:39:49 PM

violentsalvation: I would like to see how much of Arizona would extend into Sonora, or vice versa.


William Walker approves of these shenanigans.
 
2013-11-23 05:40:32 PM

violentsalvation: I would like to see how much of Arizona would extend into Sonora, or vice versa.


Ah here we go

communitybuilders.net
 
2013-11-23 05:40:43 PM
And thus Georgia's water war with Alabama and Florida would not exist.
 
2013-11-23 05:46:34 PM

Gig103: halfwaytoheaven: As for Las Vegas, it's only where it is to take advantage of state boundaries (and differing vice laws), so if these borders had been adopted originally, Sin City would have just been somewhere else. Somewhere not in Utah, presumably.

Vegas was founded as a railroad city in 1905 as a stopover on the way to California, it wasn't founded with the express intent of gambling and "sin" activities. Gambling wasn't legalized until 1931, and the Hoover Dam's completion in 1935 provided a reservoir in the form of Lake Mead just helped the city grow.


I'm not sayin Las Vegas itself would move, I'm saying that with these borders, gambling NEVER would have been legalized there, so folks from LA would have had to find another place to go to gamble, and some other location would have become Sin City. And Las Vegas would be some obscure desert outpost.
 
2013-11-23 05:47:40 PM

crozzo: I thought I understood what a watershed was, but if Georgia flows into both the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic, then I am either too smart to teach or too dumb to learn.


I'm going to go with too dumb to learn.
 
2013-11-23 05:47:44 PM
My priorities for creating this map were to: end up with 50 states;

That is very important when batshiat-brainstorming.  There have always been 50 states, so there should always be 50 states.
 
2013-11-23 05:49:15 PM
anyway, from the map I just posted it looks like it is part of Washington state, subby.
 
2013-11-23 05:50:15 PM

halfwaytoheaven:  And they don't mention it, but he made those trips down the Colorado after losing an arm in the Civil War. If you read his accounts of the trip, he never mentions the arm, even as he's paddling through rapids or scaling cliffs for a better view.



I don't blame him; if I had lost an arm, I wouldn't talk about it either.  I get quite embarrassed enough when I lose something simple like my keys or my sunglasses.
 
2013-11-23 05:59:24 PM

violentsalvation: violentsalvation: I would like to see how much of Arizona would extend into Sonora, or vice versa.

Ah here we go


It's interesting that the United States only grows on that map, never gives up portions of watersheds to its neighbors. The Red River of the North, for instance, should really belong to Canada, according to the logic behind this proposal.

Also, this version of Wyoming would have maybe 100,000 people. Just merge it with Montana. And we don't really need two Dakotas.
 
2013-11-23 06:00:15 PM
Damn Minnesota would get jacked if this happened, on the plus side so would Texas with OKlam home benefiting heavily which is lol worthy.
 
2013-11-23 06:03:30 PM

rev. dave: And thus Georgia's water war with Alabama and Florida would not exist.


And Tennessee... When it comes to water, Georgia is almost as bad as California.
 
2013-11-23 06:06:41 PM

halfwaytoheaven: I'm not sayin Las Vegas itself would move, I'm saying that with these borders, gambling NEVER would have been legalized there, so folks from LA would have had to find another place to go to gamble, and some other location would have become Sin City. And Las Vegas would be some obscure desert outpost.


Ah, I understand now.
 
2013-11-23 06:32:01 PM

crozzo: I thought I understood what a watershed was, but if Georgia flows into both the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic, then I am either too smart to teach or too dumb to learn.


It's when the kids go to bed and all the raunchy stuff starts on tv.
 
2013-11-23 06:40:58 PM

Churchill2004: Sure, lump Las Vegas and Salt Lake City together in the same state. That'll work well.


There's lots of coke in SLC. Craziest club I've ever been to was in Utah.
 
2013-11-23 06:52:11 PM
I think for most Farkers, every state is above California.
 
2013-11-23 06:59:24 PM

Doc Daneeka: Ohio looks like a gerrymandered district.

A long narrow strip along Lake Erie all the way up to Niagara Falls.


I like it, it means were cut off from the rest of the state (which we call Northern Kentucky).this can only be a win for Northern Ohio.
 
2013-11-23 07:17:53 PM
Otisburg
 
DVD
2013-11-23 07:33:28 PM

DrunkenBob: I'd go with it just for the amusement of Oklahoma rivaling Texas in size.  Even if it means I'd have to live in Kansas.

/Just as long as we genocide the Mormons before Utah expands



Are Mormon farkers going to have to give you a story to tell in a special edition of ITG magazine?    (You know there ARE a few of us.  The Bevets haven't chased us all out.)
 
2013-11-23 07:37:41 PM
Northern California, clearly.
 
2013-11-23 07:39:41 PM
Great, Kansas is farked, and they took Denver with it.
 
DVD
2013-11-23 07:43:24 PM

Churchill2004: halfwaytoheaven: As for Las Vegas, it's only where it is to take advantage of state boundaries (and differing vice laws), so if these borders had been adopted originally, Sin City would have just been somewhere else. Somewhere not in Utah, presumably.

It's still not as ambitious as what the Mormons originally came up with. Check out this ridiculousness:

[www.lightplanet.com image 599x512]


You know how government works.  You always ask for too much, then you can actually get something reasonable after the cuts are made to the request.
 
2013-11-23 07:49:03 PM
What is that state?  Why, that's Budlandia!  Sometimes known as Maryjanistan.
 
2013-11-23 08:02:41 PM

Whatthefark: That would be West Oregon subby. It's a lawless land where anything goes. Do you want to watch Hulk Hogan wrestle endangered Siberian tigers? Go to West Oregon. Would you like to smear dolphin pate on crackers? Go to West Oregon. Would you like to not only mount a gun on your cars trunk and be able to use it on tailgaters? Go to West Oregon.

West Oregon, where Americans go for a taste of debauchery.


You joke, but that's already happening.  At least the cats bit.

http://greatcatsworldpark.com/cmsj/index.php?option=com_content&task =v iew&id=12&Itemid=26
 
2013-11-23 08:28:13 PM
Woo! Nevada gets 100% of Lake Tahoe! I'm all for this plan.
 
2013-11-23 09:02:30 PM
This puts Denver in Kansas and New York City in New Jersey. Horrifying.
 
2013-11-23 09:02:59 PM
Map fails without Alaska and Hawaii.
 
2013-11-23 09:12:24 PM
Get your own water, Kansas.
 
2013-11-23 09:22:34 PM
As a resident of the fair state of Michigan I saw fark all ya'll.  You can pry my water from my cold dead hands. Pew! Pew! Pew!
 
2013-11-23 10:16:24 PM
That bit above California is where they dump all those Dvorak keyboards, Peters projection maps, ranked-choice Borda count ballots, base-12 mathematics textbooks, and maps of rectilinear congressional districts.

/They can store them in properly tetrahedral pyramids
//And pay for it with a 15% flat tax
 
2013-11-23 10:41:54 PM

Churchill2004: Also, Milwaukee, Illinois? Fark you. That'll go over about as well as his plain for Minneapolis, Wisconsin.



Map doesn't really show it too clearly on that scale but I think Milwaukee would end up in Michigan if boundaries were determined by watershed. The Michigan-Illinois state line would be in Waukesha County, somewhere around Sunny Slope Road. Lake Michigan would be entirely within "Michigan's" borders and would include much of Chicago.
 
2013-11-23 11:06:52 PM
North Takoma.
 
2013-11-23 11:55:11 PM
As an ex-Michigander, it was obvious that Indiana is an extension of Kentucky. But it is priceless seeing Indiana literally kissing Mississippi.
 
2013-11-24 12:00:08 AM

Xcott: That bit above California is where they dump all those Dvorak keyboards, Peters projection maps, ranked-choice Borda count ballots, base-12 mathematics textbooks, and maps of rectilinear congressional districts.

/They can store them in properly tetrahedral pyramids
//And pay for it with a 15% flat tax


Hey! Dvorak keyboards are wonderful! Qwerty was invented to SLOW DOWN TYPISTS because in the beginning, typists actually got the keys stuck if typed too fast. Base-12 can go to hell however.
 
2013-11-24 02:43:20 AM

ciderczar: New York City, Connecticut is sufficiently confusing. I approve.


It's actually right in the center of New Jersey, not Connecticut.

New Jersey.

/faints
 
2013-11-24 02:43:56 AM
In the nineteenth century, a geologist named John Wesley Powell...

I like how they say this like he's just some random dude with no real significance, and this was just some interesting footnote...

As for this idea, I think it would have been great, fighting about water is probably the biggest complaining between states. Living in Utah, and having lived in Az, I hear this all of the time.
 
2013-11-24 05:16:02 AM
That would be the great state of Jefferson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state) 
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-11-24 07:00:33 AM
Why, that's the great state of Calisota, subby.
 
2013-11-24 08:21:32 AM

FloydA: Now I want to mount a gun on a Siberian tiger and smear Hulk Hogan pate on a tailgating dolphin.


I see that you're living up to your farky
 
2013-11-24 08:55:34 AM
Shouldn't Louisiana roughly resemble the shape of the Louisiana Purchase?
 
2013-11-24 09:19:13 AM

DVD: DrunkenBob: I'd go with it just for the amusement of Oklahoma rivaling Texas in size.  Even if it means I'd have to live in Kansas.

/Just as long as we genocide the Mormons before Utah expands


Are Mormon farkers going to have to give you a story to tell in a special edition of ITG magazine?    (You know there ARE a few of us.  The Bevets haven't chased us all out.)


we have so many babies that we'll conquer them by population alone. happy prozac valley autistic babies.
 
2013-11-24 11:15:36 AM
To be fair, this type of land division has been used before. In Hawaii we call them ahupua'a and they were the system used by the Hawaiians. Makes a lot of sense when water is a key to the economy.
 
2013-11-24 11:19:54 AM

Pootums: That would be the great state of JeffersonCannabis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state) 
[upload.wikimedia.org image 286x186]


Fixed... ;^)
 
2013-11-24 12:35:59 PM

Smoking GNU: FloydA: Now I want to mount a gun on a Siberian tiger and smear Hulk Hogan pate on a tailgating dolphin.

I see that you're living up to your farky


Oh good.  What is my farky?
 
2013-11-24 12:52:49 PM

FloydA: Smoking GNU: FloydA: Now I want to mount a gun on a Siberian tiger and smear Hulk Hogan pate on a tailgating dolphin.

I see that you're living up to your farky

Oh good.  What is my farky?


"(favorite: Incoherant) " As Yellow 5
 
2013-11-24 01:14:17 PM
How cute! He included the state of Jefferson.
 
2013-11-24 01:24:45 PM
The two river basins here in Georgia, if separate, would call for an East and West Georgia. We can't have this. Everyone knows that Georgia is split North/South.

/right down the middle of I-20
//with a North Georgia embassy in Tybee Island
///and a wish for Atlanta to disappear
 
2013-11-24 01:43:09 PM

Smoking GNU: FloydA: Smoking GNU: FloydA: Now I want to mount a gun on a Siberian tiger and smear Hulk Hogan pate on a tailgating dolphin.

I see that you're living up to your farky

Oh good.  What is my farky?

"(favorite: Incoherant) " As Yellow 5



Hooray!  I'm tartrazine!
 
2013-11-24 02:35:30 PM

Sobekneferu: How cute! He included the state of Jefferson.


No, that's supposed to be a non- or semi-contiguous part of Washington state.
 
2013-11-24 02:40:41 PM

phaseolus: Churchill2004: Also, Milwaukee, Illinois? Fark you. That'll go over about as well as his plain for Minneapolis, Wisconsin.


Map doesn't really show it too clearly on that scale but I think Milwaukee would end up in Michigan if boundaries were determined by watershed. The Michigan-Illinois state line would be in Waukesha County, somewhere around Sunny Slope Road. Lake Michigan would be entirely within "Michigan's" borders and would include much of Chicago.


Possibly, but I don't think that's the intention. I think the UP is being expanded down south to around Sheboygan to include the Fox R./Green Bay drainage, with the coastline of Illinois extending from there to just north of Michigan City, IN. If it were including all of the Lake Michigan drainage area then the border when extend a lot further inland than the possible coastal strip you're seeing.
 
2013-11-24 07:34:14 PM
Cascadia
 
2013-11-24 07:44:27 PM

Kevin72: Xcott: That bit above California is where they dump all those Dvorak keyboards, Peters projection maps, ranked-choice Borda count ballots, base-12 mathematics textbooks, and maps of rectilinear congressional districts.

/They can store them in properly tetrahedral pyramids
//And pay for it with a 15% flat tax

Hey! Dvorak keyboards are wonderful! Qwerty was invented to SLOW DOWN TYPISTS because in the beginning, typists actually got the keys stuck if typed too fast. Base-12 can go to hell however.


I'm surprised our lizard people overlords didn't institute base 8. They're slipping.
 
2013-11-24 11:44:17 PM

The Googles Do Nothing: As a resident of the fair state of Michigan I saw fark all ya'll.  You can pry my water from my cold dead hands. Pew! Pew! Pew!


I think Michigan would benefit from these borders more than any other state.  We would get all of the water (except Lake Erie and Ontario, which is fine by me).
 
2013-11-25 12:36:15 AM
The seal was chosen for the double-cross the residents of southern Oregon and extreme-northern California think they get from the Federal and their respective state governments.

www.publicceo.com
 
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