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(LA Times)   California on track to see budget surpluses starting next year. President Moonbeam anyone?   (latimes.com) divider line 189
    More: Spiffy, Darrell Steinberg, Diamond Bar, D-Sacramento, finance director  
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1911 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Nov 2013 at 8:39 AM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-23 07:57:54 AM
This is what you get when the executive and legislature is run by Democrats.  Budget surpluses.

Compare to states with Republicans completely in charge.

Who's the fiscally responsible party??
 
2013-11-23 08:45:05 AM
California on track to see budget surpluses starting next year. President Moonbeam anyone?

What?
 
2013-11-23 08:45:57 AM

Lionel Mandrake: This is what you get when the executive and legislature is run by Democrats.  Budget surpluses.

Compare to states with Republicans completely in charge.

Who's the fiscally responsible party??


I'll take "What is Prop. 30" for $500 Alex


Raise taxes "for the schools"
Dump funds into General Spending
??????
Surplus
PROFIT!
 
2013-11-23 08:47:15 AM
I voted for Jerry Brown over Bill Clinton in the primary in 92, I say bring it on.
 
2013-11-23 08:47:59 AM
He may be a bit old now for that kind of stress.
 
2013-11-23 08:53:11 AM

Sniffers Row: Lionel Mandrake: This is what you get when the executive and legislature is run by Democrats.  Budget surpluses.

Compare to states with Republicans completely in charge.

Who's the fiscally responsible party??

I'll take "What is Prop. 30" for $500 Alex


Raise taxes "for the schools"
Dump funds into General Spending
??????
Surplus
PROFIT!


If it is so easy, why can't the GOP do it?
 
2013-11-23 08:53:45 AM
Get in line behind President DeBlasio and VP Booker
 
2013-11-23 08:57:30 AM

Lost Thought 00: Get in line behind President DeBlasio and VP Booker


That is a scary thought......
 
2013-11-23 08:57:35 AM

LoneWolf343: Sniffers Row: Lionel Mandrake: This is what you get when the executive and legislature is run by Democrats.  Budget surpluses.

Compare to states with Republicans completely in charge.

Who's the fiscally responsible party??

I'll take "What is Prop. 30" for $500 Alex


Raise taxes "for the schools"
Dump funds into General Spending
??????
Surplus
PROFIT!

If it is so easy, why can't the GOP do it?


Because it involves raising taxes on people who make over $250k?
 
2013-11-23 08:59:47 AM

dantheman195: Lost Thought 00: Get in line behind President DeBlasio and VP Booker

That is a scary thought......


Is it?

I'm no expert on DeBlasio, but I haven't heard anything bad about him, either.
 
2013-11-23 09:00:42 AM

LoneWolf343: If it is so easy, why can't the GOP do it?


Because taxes are theft and f*ck the children that's why.   WHAAAAAAARRRRRRGARBLL!!1!

Plus, they don't have the time; they're too busy trying to find ways to make voting and getting an abortion as difficult as possible.  You know, "small government" stuff.
 
2013-11-23 09:01:38 AM

Alphax: dantheman195: Lost Thought 00: Get in line behind President DeBlasio and VP Booker

That is a scary thought......

Is it?

I'm no expert on DeBlasio, but I haven't heard anything bad about him, either.


He's liberal.  OOGA-BOOGA!!
 
2013-11-23 09:01:56 AM

Lost Thought 00: Get in line behind President DeBlasio and VP Booker


images.wikia.com
 
2013-11-23 09:02:18 AM
Well yeah but it's a Pyrrhic victory, since Rob Schneider won't make movies there anymore.
 
2013-11-23 09:02:45 AM

Lost Thought 00: Get in line behind President DeBlasio and VP Booker


President Booker would have great entertainment value. Teabagger heads would explode everywhere.
 
2013-11-23 09:03:31 AM

jayhawk88: Well yeah but it's a Pyrrhic victory, since Rob Schneider won't make movies there anymore.


So, no sequel to Down Periscope?  Awww...
 
2013-11-23 09:03:52 AM

Lionel Mandrake: This is what you get when the executive and legislature is run by Democrats.  Budget surpluses.

Compare to states with Republicans completely in charge.

Who's the fiscally responsible party??


Didn't Texas just have an $8 billion surplus?
 
2013-11-23 09:05:42 AM
Well, it's a budget surplus, if you completely ignore the $135 billion in underfunded pensions and the $10 billion in "loans" from the Federal government for unemployment payouts.

And if the stock market stays high (which depends on QE - see below).

And if the Fed keeps up quantitative easing (they can't).

And if the increase in tax revenues from capital gains taxes stays high (it hasn't done so in the past - CG taxes tend to fluctuate wildly).

Then there's the ugly fiscal issue they haven't addressed - Medicaid funding. Which is going to balloon over the next year or so. Yeah, the direct increase in costs is supposed to be paid by the Federal government, but it's also going to cause the overall program cost to explode - which will pretty much eat that "surplus" all by itself.
 
2013-11-23 09:07:08 AM
State Sales Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Gasoline Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Personal Income Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Corporate Income Tax: Highest in the West - Check

cottonoaks.biz
 
2013-11-23 09:07:16 AM
Franko618:


Because it involves raising taxes on people who make over $250k?

And sales tax for everybody
 
2013-11-23 09:08:04 AM

jayhawk88: Well yeah but it's a Pyrrhic victory, since Rob Schneider won't make movies there anymore.


But if Brown becomes POTUS then Schneider won't make movies in any of the 50 states. I fail to see the down side here.
 
2013-11-23 09:10:47 AM
What did Jerry Brown ever do to Rob Schneider?
 
2013-11-23 09:14:28 AM

Sniffers Row: Lionel Mandrake: This is what you get when the executive and legislature is run by Democrats.  Budget surpluses.

Compare to states with Republicans completely in charge.

Who's the fiscally responsible party??

I'll take "What is Prop. 30" for $500 Alex


Raise taxes "for the schools"
Dump funds into General Spending
??????
Surplus
PROFIT!


That is so true - raising taxes 1%, 2%, and 3% on people making over $250K, $300K and $500K to fund education and take pressure off the general fund is lame. What we need is to make cuts to education, lower taxes on the wealthy, and reject hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funds so we can have a truly patriotic economy like Wisconsin does under the heroic Scott Walker.
 
2013-11-23 09:15:23 AM
California: Where 1/11th of the United States population generates 1/7th of the total United States economic activity.
 
2013-11-23 09:16:15 AM

quatchi: jayhawk88: Well yeah but it's a Pyrrhic victory, since Rob Schneider won't make movies there anymore.

But if Brown becomes POTUS then Schneider won't make movies in any of the 50 states. I fail to see the down side here.


shiat talk about an instant vote from me, hell i'd get off my ass and go door to door and drive people to the ballot to vote. Throw in another meltdown from Craig Nelson and Rove and I'd pay out of pocket to get people I.D.'s to vote.
 
2013-11-23 09:17:40 AM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2013/07/08/jerry-brown-s t ands-atop-californias-collapsing-house-of-cards/

"First, to use Jerry Brown's own words, California has a "wall of debt," which doesn't include unfunded pension and medical liability - and that wall of debt is NOT included in the budget. The total amount of that debt is somewhere in the $27 billion range and includes over $10 billion owed to the federal government. That money was used to fund California's Unemployment Insurance Fund, and California seems to have no plan to pay it back - a sort of "reverse" unfunded mandate, if you will.
The fact that California began borrowing that money in 2009 demonstrates the fallacy of the prior claims of balanced budgets. The fact that it is kept off budget, like the other debt mentioned above, demonstrates the fallacy of the 2013-14 budget.
Of course, California has far greater debts than that. One study showed that California governments are over $1 trillion in debt...."


Hey, wait a minute.   You don't think the media is spinning a rosey Cali. story here do you ?
 
2013-11-23 09:23:17 AM

AltheaToldMe: State Sales Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Gasoline Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Personal Income Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Corporate Income Tax: Highest in the West - Check


Let's see just how many companies drop the state in that time.
 
2013-11-23 09:27:53 AM
Yeah, well my herpaderp state government promised to deliver 250K jobs, and after laying a bunch of people off and giving away public resources to private corporations, we're almost up to 1 whole job created!  Conservatism forevar!
 
2013-11-23 09:29:03 AM

netcentric: http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2013/07/08/jerry-brown-s t ands-atop-californias-collapsing-house-of-cards/

"First, to use Jerry Brown's own words, California has a "wall of debt," which doesn't include unfunded pension and medical liability - and that wall of debt is NOT included in the budget. The total amount of that debt is somewhere in the $27 billion range and includes over $10 billion owed to the federal government. That money was used to fund California's Unemployment Insurance Fund, and California seems to have no plan to pay it back - a sort of "reverse" unfunded mandate, if you will.
The fact that California began borrowing that money in 2009 demonstrates the fallacy of the prior claims of balanced budgets. The fact that it is kept off budget, like the other debt mentioned above, demonstrates the fallacy of the 2013-14 budget.
Of course, California has far greater debts than that. One study showed that California governments are over $1 trillion in debt...."


Hey, wait a minute.   You don't think the media is spinning a rosey Cali. story here do you ?


By this you mean, let's turn attention away from how things are dramatically improving and focus instead on the lingering debts from the recession? You've convinced me. I'm voting Republican from now on.
 
2013-11-23 09:30:52 AM

AltheaToldMe: State Sales Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Gasoline Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Personal Income Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Corporate Income Tax: Highest in the West - Check

[cottonoaks.biz image 640x948]


So taxes can help balance a budget.  That's shocking.
 
2013-11-23 09:32:07 AM
Wait a minute... I think people in this thread are saying that the way to fix a budget deficit is to... make sure you're raising enough tax revenue to pay for your spending?

images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-11-23 09:32:52 AM
"This year at least three national magazines have run glowing profiles of the governor..."
so
" The road to Mr Brown's re-election next year looks clear, if (as most expect) he chooses to take it. "
but
"Yet several questions hang over California's finances. First are the state's "hidden" obligations. During the lean years, accounting tricks and the shuffling of revenues from one fund to another created a "wall of debt" worth around $35 billion. Mr Brown says this will fall to $4.7 billion within four years. The state also owes the federal government over $10 billion for unemployment-insurance payments. And, like other states, California faces obligations to retired state workers that are not even close to being fully funded. The teachers' pension fund, for example, wants $4.5 billion more a year. This would immediately swallow up this year's surplus, and drain the budget for another three decades." - The Economist


Oh my,  that doesn't sound as Rosy-dosy as the media is portraying.

So, high taxes?
 
2013-11-23 09:37:00 AM

netcentric: "This year at least three national magazines have run glowing profiles of the governor..."
so
" The road to Mr Brown's re-election next year looks clear, if (as most expect) he chooses to take it. "
but
"Yet several questions hang over California's finances. First are the state's "hidden" obligations. During the lean years, accounting tricks and the shuffling of revenues from one fund to another created a "wall of debt" worth around $35 billion. Mr Brown says this will fall to $4.7 billion within four years. The state also owes the federal government over $10 billion for unemployment-insurance payments. And, like other states, California faces obligations to retired state workers that are not even close to being fully funded. The teachers' pension fund, for example, wants $4.5 billion more a year. This would immediately swallow up this year's surplus, and drain the budget for another three decades." - The Economist


Oh my,  that doesn't sound as Rosy-dosy as the media is portraying.

So, high taxes I might actually have to pay my bills?

 
2013-11-23 09:37:02 AM

gnosis301: AltheaToldMe: State Sales Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Gasoline Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Personal Income Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Corporate Income Tax: Highest in the West - Check

Let's see just how many companies drop the state in that time.


If the California economy grows during that period I guess that would equally refute the BS supply side garbage.
 
2013-11-23 09:38:26 AM

Lost Thought 00: Get in line behind President DeBlasio and VP Booker


DeBlasio is a genuine liberal. Booker is a Wall St. crony. We'll all be better off the senator nowhere near the White House.
 
2013-11-23 09:38:40 AM

mrshowrules: gnosis301: AltheaToldMe: State Sales Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Gasoline Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Personal Income Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Corporate Income Tax: Highest in the West - Check

Let's see just how many companies drop the state in that time.

If the California economy grows during that period I guess that would equally refute the BS supply side garbage.


Based on the price of commercial real estate, I don't really think a lot of companies are fleeing California.
 
2013-11-23 09:40:30 AM

netcentric: "This year at least three national magazines have run glowing profiles of the governor..."
so
" The road to Mr Brown's re-election next year looks clear, if (as most expect) he chooses to take it. "
but
"Yet several questions hang over California's finances. First are the state's "hidden" obligations. During the lean years, accounting tricks and the shuffling of revenues from one fund to another created a "wall of debt" worth around $35 billion. Mr Brown says this will fall to $4.7 billion within four years. The state also owes the federal government over $10 billion for unemployment-insurance payments. And, like other states, California faces obligations to retired state workers that are not even close to being fully funded. The teachers' pension fund, for example, wants $4.5 billion more a year. This would immediately swallow up this year's surplus, and drain the budget for another three decades." - The Economist


Oh my,  that doesn't sound as Rosy-dosy as the media is portraying.

So, high taxes?


Do we lambaste people who can't pay off their mortgage in one year?
I thought the whole thing about a debt-based economy is that you never take on more debt than you can be perceived to manage, since it is more important that payments be made on schedule than you being absolutely debt-free at any given point in time?
 
2013-11-23 09:41:02 AM

AltheaToldMe: State Sales Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Gasoline Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Personal Income Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check

Corporate Income Tax: Highest in the West - Check


It is almost as if stuff costs money and one could also argue - circuitously if necessary- that taxes increase revenue.

Which is amazing as I have been repeatedly assured of the opposite.
 
2013-11-23 09:43:16 AM

TofuTheAlmighty: Lost Thought 00: Get in line behind President DeBlasio and VP Booker

DeBlasio is a genuine liberal. Booker is a Wall St. crony. We'll all be better off the senator nowhere near the White House.


Cory Booker. Former mayor of Newark. Wall St crony? That's a new one on me.
 
2013-11-23 09:44:53 AM

Alphax: jayhawk88: Well yeah but it's a Pyrrhic victory, since Rob Schneider won't make movies there anymore.

So, no sequel to Down Periscope?  Awww...


I think the best part of that movie might be a little long in the tooth to reprise her role.
 
2013-11-23 09:45:39 AM

cameroncrazy1984: TofuTheAlmighty: Lost Thought 00: Get in line behind President DeBlasio and VP Booker

DeBlasio is a genuine liberal. Booker is a Wall St. crony. We'll all be better off the senator nowhere near the White House.

Cory Booker. Former mayor of Newark. Wall St crony? That's a new one on me.


Last year, he was telling people not to say things about Bain Capital.  I'm not sure why now, but he didn't seem to like it.
 
2013-11-23 09:47:07 AM

BlueDWarrior: netcentric: "This year at least three national magazines have run glowing profiles of the governor..."
so
" The road to Mr Brown's re-election next year looks clear, if (as most expect) he chooses to take it. "
but
"Yet several questions hang over California's finances. First are the state's "hidden" obligations. During the lean years, accounting tricks and the shuffling of revenues from one fund to another created a "wall of debt" worth around $35 billion. Mr Brown says this will fall to $4.7 billion within four years. The state also owes the federal government over $10 billion for unemployment-insurance payments. And, like other states, California faces obligations to retired state workers that are not even close to being fully funded. The teachers' pension fund, for example, wants $4.5 billion more a year. This would immediately swallow up this year's surplus, and drain the budget for another three decades." - The Economist


Oh my,  that doesn't sound as Rosy-dosy as the media is portraying.

So, high taxes?

Do we lambaste people who can't pay off their mortgage in one year?
I thought the whole thing about a debt-based economy is that you never take on more debt than you can be perceived to manage, since it is more important that payments be made on schedule than you being absolutely debt-free at any given point in time?



I see what you mean.    'perceived to manage' debt.    Good point.       As long as you can pay that minimum payment on your credit card bill.....   then you have no debt problems !! Voila.

That is true.    If you owe $23,598 dollars and you write out a check for the minimum $48.50 payment ...... then you are back in the black... baby.

I see where you are correct and I was mistaken.
 
2013-11-23 09:47:19 AM
I can't believe people are falling for this.

First, California was hit hard by the mortgage crisis. The latest round of QE was essentially a bail-out of the mortgage market. It's helped them tremendously recover their property values. Not to mention that they've received billions in "loans" for various programs they enacted under the guidance of the Feds. Second, Brown instituted retroactive taxes. How long can you keep doing that? Third, they've gutted their pension funds. Every other year it seems like the gap is doubling between what is owed and what is in reserve.

So yea, if you have the feds giving you money you'll never pay back, retroactive taxation, and stop paying your bills, you can work economic "miracles". As long as you have someone to blame when the whole thing falls apart.

I hope Californians don't realize they're being screwed over till it's too late. I'd hate to see them elect a Republican and pin it all on him/her. The best thing to do is to stay as far away from their suicidal mess as possible.
 
2013-11-23 09:52:38 AM

Lost Thought 00: Get in line behind President DeBlasio and VP Booker


President Warren and VP Booker would cause simultaneous joygasms and ragegasms from left and right wing pundits.

/I'd vote for that ticket.
 
2013-11-23 09:56:17 AM
I have voted for Jerry Brown every time his name has appeared on my ballot, and even wrote his name in on one where it didn't.

/God bless Jerry Brown
 
2013-11-23 09:57:43 AM
California is back in the black, apparently because they can cover their minimum debt payments for the time being.
Good that interest rates are at almost zero for them.

I think the moral of the story is that as long as you can raise taxes,  the media will get behind you and report that "all is well'.


Whatever you do, don't believe this quote from those crazy Teabagger loons at the Spectator Blog.    What do they know?? Pffft.

"A report by CBS revealed actual debt numbers for California between $848 billion and $1.1 trillion. The report accounted for debt from K-12 public schools, city government, county government and special districts debt, unfunded pension and retiree healthcare liabilities, and the interest on those liabilities. Furthermore, California owes the federal government over $10 billion in unemployment-insurance payments.
According to Moody's, California's long-term debt is still well above the national median by all indicators considered. Per capita debt is over double the national average of $1,074. Debt as a percentage of personal income and debt as a percentage of GDP are both above five percent, also double the national average.
California is particularly vulnerable to downturns in the business cycle because a large percentage of the state income relies on income and capital gains tax revenue from the wealthy. Sixty-three percent of general-fund revenues come from the richest one percent of Californians. The income-tax rise has exacerbated this dependency on the one percent. "

Better living through creative accounting.    The California dream.
 
2013-11-23 09:59:12 AM
This thread: Lots of conservatives who don't understand the difference between deficit and debt.
 
2013-11-23 10:01:26 AM

AltheaToldMe: State Sales Tax: Highest in the Nation - Check


7.5%?  Meh.  Sales tax here in Philadelphia is 8% (PA state base is 6%).  It's 8.875% in NYC, and Texas is 8.25% in places.

A sales tax between 7-9% is no hardship, and living in a place where the sales tax just went from 7% to 8%, I can tell you that no one has noticed the difference.
 
2013-11-23 10:02:47 AM

cirby: Yeah, the direct increase in costs is supposed to be paid by the Federal government, but it's also going to cause the overall program cost to explode - which will pretty much eat that "surplus" all by itself.


Whoever told this to you lied to you.  And, you're an idiot for believing it.

As the Kaiser Commission discovered:

* In all states that implement the Medicaid expansion, uncompensated care will decline. According to prior research, states and localities pay about 30 percent of the cost of care received by the uninsured not paid by the uninsured. We assume that, under the ACA, states and localities can achieve only 33 percent of their proportionate share of uncompensated care savings. Overall, we estimate that adding the Medicaid expansion to the rest of the ACA would generate $18.3 billion in state and local savings on uncompensated care between 2013 and 2022. These savings would exceed increased total state Medicaid costs during the 2013-2022 period, resulting in net fiscal gains of $10.1 billion from the Medicaid expansion.
 
2013-11-23 10:04:28 AM
It's a new game all the right wingers are playing called "Spin the Potato"
 
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