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(TampaBay.com (St. Petersburg Tim)   Not news: Firefighter seeks compensation for on-the-job injury. Fark: Is suing a homeowner after a slip and fall   (tampabay.com) divider line 77
    More: Florida, executive compensation, Casselberry, homeowners, Florida Legislature, firefighters  
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7421 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Nov 2013 at 2:38 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-22 02:12:24 PM
When firefighters arrive, Schuler said, the homeowners have a responsibility to inform responders of the severe potential danger.

What if nobody's home, or they're all unconscious? There are no winners in this sad story.
 
2013-11-22 02:18:53 PM

show me: When firefighters arrive, Schuler said, the homeowners have a responsibility to inform responders of the severe potential danger.

What if nobody's home, or they're all unconscious? There are no winners in this sad story.


Wrong. Lawyers win
 
2013-11-22 02:41:31 PM
Oh Florida. You so stoopid.
 
2013-11-22 02:41:43 PM

show me: When firefighters arrive, Schuler said, the homeowners have a responsibility to inform responders of the severe potential danger.

What if nobody's home, or they're all unconscious? There are no winners in this sad story.


WTF? "Hi, Mr. Firefighter! There's some tile on my front porch that can be a little slippery. Please be careful!"

Yeah right. Like the entire crew of firefighters doesn't have anything better to do that stand there while the homeowner lists all the things that might be potential hazards. And really, the homeowner doesn't have other things on his mind?

The world (esp. US) is a stupid place these days. :(
 
2013-11-22 02:42:53 PM
. A man lit two burners to cook a meal, but fell asleep.

Yeah, fark this guy
 
2013-11-22 02:44:03 PM
That's that.  Drastically reduce fire departments and their duties, let the f*cker burn and let insurance pay for damage instead of lawyers and settlements.
Next topic, cops don't prevent crimes, they write reports
 
2013-11-22 02:44:10 PM
I imagine the only thing to do now is insist on the asshat being prosecuted for trespassing, breaking and entering, and property damage.
 
2013-11-22 02:47:19 PM
Schuler also offered a less radical example from a recent case he won. An EMT responding to a medical emergency ran across the home's front lawn and fell into a trench the homeowners had dug for a new fence. The man broke his leg.
Schuler said the EMT settled out of court for about $225,000.


oh wow!
 
2013-11-22 02:47:24 PM

edmo: I imagine the only thing to do now is insist on the asshat being prosecuted for trespassing, breaking and entering, and property damage.


That's what I thought at first, but the article states that a law passed in FL a couple of decades ago says they are automatically classified as invited guests.
 
2013-11-22 02:47:38 PM
It's simple.  Draw a line around your property and post sign(s) that if you cross the line you assume all risks.  So easy
 
2013-11-22 02:49:40 PM

JohnCarter: It's simple.  Draw a line around your property and post sign(s) that if you cross the line you assume all risks.  So easy


You honestly think that would work, don't you?
 
2013-11-22 02:51:53 PM
You would think firefighters would have their own insurance for this kind of stuff, or at least the municipality they work for... or however they happen to be organized.
 
2013-11-22 02:52:22 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: . A man lit two burners to cook a meal, but fell asleep.

Yeah, fark this guy


Granted, I've never done it with fire hazards going, but you've honestly never sat down and dozed off unexpectedly? Or is nobody ever allowed to make any mistake before you write them off as subhuman?
 
2013-11-22 02:54:08 PM
Yes, officer, I realize you have a warrant, however, I have an obligation under state law to warn you of all risks associated or potentially associated with my property.  And so, I have prepared this three page checklist, as well as a powerpoint, so if you will just sit back, this will be done in twenty three minutes.

One, there may be holes in my yard from burrowing mammal activity, that you could potentially trip in. Two, my sprinklers are set to randomly sprinkle at odd times, and may activate between 2 am and 6 am.  Furthermore, the grass will be wet as late as 10 am, unless the cloud cover is over 50% for the day, in which case it may well retain slippery moisture as late as 8 pm.
Some trip in the house is loose, and may snag clothing as you pass by.
I have the following potentially hazardous chemicals in my home, and their storage areas: Bleach, over the washing machine in the laundry room. Caustic Soda, under the bathroom sink. Sodium Chloride, in the cabinet to the right of the stove.
Caution, stove  burners may be on, and not look hot.
 
2013-11-22 02:55:21 PM
When firefighters arrive, Schuler said, the homeowners have a responsibility to inform responders of the severe potential danger.

Um. The farking house being on fire doesn't give them a clue that it may be dangerous?
 
2013-11-22 03:01:00 PM

karmaceutical: You would think firefighters would have their own insurance for this kind of stuff, or at least the municipality they work for... or however they happen to be organized.


They do. They have full medical insurance and they're paid for any missed work due to job related injury. If they're hurt to the point of disability they have that as well.

This fire fighter is a total asshole.
 
2013-11-22 03:01:20 PM
FTFA:  The lawsuits' success, he said, depend on the homeowners' degree of negligence   cash and insurance coverage .

/ftfm
 
2013-11-22 03:01:38 PM
I wonder why the tile was slippery? Maybe from the firefighters hoses?
 
2013-11-22 03:04:35 PM
The tile would not have been slippery if you didn't pour water on it.
 
2013-11-22 03:07:22 PM
Don't firefighters wear slip proof boots? Was he not wearing his turnout gear?
 
2013-11-22 03:08:47 PM

Igor Jakovsky: I wonder why the tile was slippery? Maybe from the firefighters hoses?


uncleacid: The tile would not have been slippery if you didn't pour water on it.


Obviously the homeowner had a duty to post "slippery when wet" signs.
 
2013-11-22 03:11:19 PM
I swear, your honor, some jackoff just showed up with a giant hose and sprayed water all over the house.
 
2013-11-22 03:21:20 PM
We need some equal protection under the constitution here. Let's do away with workers comp insurance and workers can sue their employers when they get hurt on the job since they are invited guest?
 
2013-11-22 03:22:30 PM

Lord Farkwad: We need some equal protection under the constitution here. Let's do away with workers comp insurance and workers can sue their employers when they get hurt on the job since they are invited guest?


Now that you mention it, how is this NOT classified as a workman's comp issue?  He's within the municipality (his "workplace") and performing the normal functions of his job.
 
2013-11-22 03:25:25 PM
Wow. If you interfere with them it is a crime. So how exactly are you supposed to stop them long enough to inform them of all the potential dangers ?

The stairs have just been pain.... TAZE TAZE TAZE
 
2013-11-22 03:27:25 PM
Shakespeare was right.
 
2013-11-22 03:28:22 PM
Just one day closer to the tsunami that will rid us of Florida.
 
2013-11-22 03:34:48 PM

karmaceutical: You would think firefighters would have their own insurance for this kind of stuff, or at least the municipality they work for... or however they happen to be organized.


They do. This law is designed specifically to protect their profits by enabling them to go after a different insurance company's profits, or, failing that, the homeowner's assets.

FTFA: He awoke in his house at 4056 18th Ave. S to the choking pain of smoke. The fire had spread from the kitchen to the attic, and by the time firefighters arrived, the man was running outside as flames consumed his home.

I wonder if the homeowner could claim that he wasn't ABLE to warn the firefighters of all of the potential hazards they might encounter while doing their jobs on his premises because of smoke inhalation?
 
2013-11-22 03:35:22 PM

show me: That's what I thought at first, but the article states that a law passed in FL a couple of decades ago says they are automatically classified as invited guests.


I suppose that means that nobody needs search warrants anymore.
 
2013-11-22 03:38:11 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JohnCarter: It's simple.  Draw a line around your property and post sign(s) that if you cross the line you assume all risks.  So easy

You honestly think that would work, don't you?


How is it any different than those bumper stickers on gravel trucks that say they don't have to pay if debris breaks your windshield?
 
2013-11-22 03:49:41 PM
Maybe they can counter sue for trespassing
 
2013-11-22 03:50:14 PM

fnordfocus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JohnCarter: It's simple.  Draw a line around your property and post sign(s) that if you cross the line you assume all risks.  So easy

You honestly think that would work, don't you?

How is it any different than those bumper stickers on gravel trucks that say they don't have to pay if debris breaks your windshield?


It's not any different; they're both pointless.

Same as "we're not responsible for lost / damaged property" signs.
 
2013-11-22 03:51:46 PM

MugzyBrown: fnordfocus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JohnCarter: It's simple.  Draw a line around your property and post sign(s) that if you cross the line you assume all risks.  So easy

You honestly think that would work, don't you?

How is it any different than those bumper stickers on gravel trucks that say they don't have to pay if debris breaks your windshield?

It's not any different; they're both pointless.

Same as "we're not responsible for lost / damaged property" signs.


Exactly. You can post anything you want, heck you can even get people to sign away their rights but when you end up in court you may be unpleasantly surprised.
 
2013-11-22 03:56:01 PM

fnordfocus: How is it any different than those bumper stickers on gravel trucks that say they don't have to pay if debris breaks your windshield?


It not. In fact, it's *exactly* the same, just in the opposite way that you are implying.
 
2013-11-22 03:56:41 PM
I'd be fine with this law if you could sue the firefighter back for knocking down doors or cutting holes in the roof, etc.

Both are equally reasonable
 
2013-11-22 04:01:14 PM
I expect that the fire department has worker's compensation insurance.  Most homeowner policies also provide worker's compensation insurance.  This could be a case of the fire department insisting that the injured firefighter sue the homeowner to cover his costs on that policy vs. the one the fire department has.

Submitting worker's compensation claims cause your premiums to go up.  Chances are the fire department submits quite a few claims each year and they are doing this as a means of controlling their annual premiums.

May not be the case here but it certainly is plausible.
 
2013-11-22 04:01:20 PM
A DEA officer stopped at a ranch in Texas , and talked with an old rancher. He told the rancher, "I need to inspect your ranch for illegally grown drugs." The rancher said, "Okay , but don't go in that field over there.....", as he pointed out the location.

The DEA officer verbally exploded saying, " Mister, I have the authority of the Federal Government with me!" Reaching into his rear pants pocket, the arrogant officer removed his badge and proudly displayed it to the rancher. "See this farking badge?! This badge means I am allowed to go wherever I wish.... On any land !! No questions asked or answers given!! Have I made myself clear......do you understand ?!!"

The rancher nodded politely, apologized, and went about his chores.

A short time later, the old rancher heard loud screams, looked up, and saw the DEA officer running for his life, being chased by the rancher's big Santa Gertrudis bull...... With every step the bull was gaining ground on the officer, and it seemed likely that he'd sure enough get gored before he reached safety. The officer was clearly terrified. The old rancher throws down his tools, runs to the fence and yells at the top of his lungs. "Your badge! Show him your badge!"
 
2013-11-22 04:02:18 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: . A man lit two burners to cook a meal, but fell asleep.

Yeah, fark this guy


yep

Joe Blowme: Maybe they can counter sue for trespassing


Not if they were invited

The big question is why South Pasadena was mutual aide to St. Pete was this far into Gulfport.
 
2013-11-22 04:04:16 PM

MugzyBrown: I'd be fine with this law if you could sue the firefighter back for knocking down doors or cutting holes in the roof, etc.

Both are equally reasonable


Then we'd just let the structure burn.
 
2013-11-22 04:04:59 PM
Most likely as a volunteer firefighter he has no access to WC coverage or anything other than catastrophic coverage, if that. As a former volunteer EMT in a rural area, I had to pay for my own injuries if I was hurt on a call. Read and understand the story before assuming the firefighter is in the wrong. His own insurance is probably requiring the suit before covering him. Nor is he getting paid to put out fires.
 
2013-11-22 04:07:34 PM

edmo: I imagine the only thing to do now is insist on the asshat being prosecuted for trespassing, breaking and entering, and property damage.


You got it, sue right back.
 
2013-11-22 04:08:11 PM

mike_d85: Now that you mention it, how is this NOT classified as a workman's comp issue?  He's within the municipality (his "workplace") and performing the normal functions of his job.


Workers Comp usually pays 100% medical and 66 2/3% average weekly wage.  I could see the loss of 33 1/3% of my income during the time I was injured and not able to work as a reason for seeking recovery.
 
2013-11-22 04:10:59 PM

pounddawg: A DEA officer stopped at a ranch in Texas , and talked with an old rancher. He told the rancher, "I need to inspect your ranch for illegally grown drugs." The rancher said, "Okay , but don't go in that field over there.....", as he pointed out the location.

The DEA officer verbally exploded saying, " Mister, I have the authority of the Federal Government with me!" Reaching into his rear pants pocket, the arrogant officer removed his badge and proudly displayed it to the rancher. "See this farking badge?! This badge means I am allowed to go wherever I wish.... On any land !! No questions asked or answers given!! Have I made myself clear......do you understand ?!!"

The rancher nodded politely, apologized, and went about his chores.

A short time later, the old rancher heard loud screams, looked up, and saw the DEA officer running for his life, being chased by the rancher's big Santa Gertrudis bull...... With every step the bull was gaining ground on the officer, and it seemed likely that he'd sure enough get gored before he reached safety. The officer was clearly terrified. The old rancher throws down his tools, runs to the fence and yells at the top of his lungs. "Your badge! Show him your badge!"


hahahahaha. This probably shouldnt have made me laugh as hard as it did.
 
2013-11-22 04:15:56 PM
Why does Florida employ such a weak firefighter that he's 'injured' from a simple fall?
 
2013-11-22 04:17:51 PM

Bruce Campbell: mike_d85: Now that you mention it, how is this NOT classified as a workman's comp issue?  He's within the municipality (his "workplace") and performing the normal functions of his job.

Workers Comp usually pays 100% medical and 66 2/3% average weekly wage.  I could see the loss of 33 1/3% of my income during the time I was injured and not able to work as a reason for seeking recovery.


And in a sane society you wouldn't be able to recoup that from the homeowner.  But this is America.... and Florida specifically.
 
2013-11-22 04:21:09 PM

MugzyBrown: I'd be fine with this law if you could sue the firefighter back for knocking down doors or cutting holes in the roof, etc.

Both are equally reasonable


People have sued firefighters for injuring them while rescuing them. I always thought those people were dicks. Now I'm not so sure.
 
2013-11-22 04:22:24 PM

JohnCarter: It's simple.  Draw a line around your property and post sign(s) that if you cross the line you assume all risks.  So easy


Signs? Signs! Blocking off the scenery and breaking my mind. do this, don't do that, can't you read the signs?

There should be a law of self-responsibility. It's expected that the firefighter would stay on his feet, unless forced to fall. He voluntarily stepped on that tile, so is responsible for the fall.
 
2013-11-22 04:22:55 PM

farm machine: Most homeowner policies also provide worker's compensation insurance.


No.  They don't.

farm machine: This could be a case of the fire department insisting that the injured firefighter sue the homeowner to cover his costs on that policy vs. the one the fire department has.


No.  They can't do that.  WC is exclusive remedy to an injured employee in the eyes of the WC statutes and an employer cannot make an employee do what you are suggesting.    

farm machine: Submitting worker's compensation claims cause your premiums to go up. Chances are the fire department submits quite a few claims each year and they are doing this as a means of controlling their annual premiums.


No.  WC rates in the state are statutorily determined.  Premium does not change.  You can be surcharged or credited if your loss experience varies significantly from other entities of the same type.  A fire department and its insurer would have right of recovery through a subrogation action against the at-fault party.  This would mitigate the potential impact it may have to its loss experience rating.  There is no way to cede the responsibility to pursue recovery to the injured employee, much less a need to do so since this process would do exactly that.

farm machine: May not be the case here but it certainly is plausible.


No.  It's not.  Like, not at all.
 
2013-11-22 04:24:56 PM

Warlordtrooper: And in a sane society you wouldn't be able to recoup that from the homeowner.


In a sane society, why wouldn't you be able to recoup that from the homeowner, if it is proven that the injury is the result of negligence on the part of the homeowner?
 
2013-11-22 04:35:47 PM

Bruce Campbell: farm machine: Most homeowner policies also provide worker's compensation insurance.

No.  They don't.

farm machine: This could be a case of the fire department insisting that the injured firefighter sue the homeowner to cover his costs on that policy vs. the one the fire department has.

No.  They can't do that.  WC is exclusive remedy to an injured employee in the eyes of the WC statutes and an employer cannot make an employee do what you are suggesting.    

farm machine: Submitting worker's compensation claims cause your premiums to go up. Chances are the fire department submits quite a few claims each year and they are doing this as a means of controlling their annual premiums.

No.  WC rates in the state are statutorily determined.  Premium does not change.  You can be surcharged or credited if your loss experience varies significantly from other entities of the same type.  A fire department and its insurer would have right of recovery through a subrogation action against the at-fault party.  This would mitigate the potential impact it may have to its loss experience rating.  There is no way to cede the responsibility to pursue recovery to the injured employee, much less a need to do so since this process would do exactly that.

farm machine: May not be the case here but it certainly is plausible.

No.  It's not.  Like, not at all.


Must be another benefit of living in the state of Florida.  I can tell you with certainty that homeowner's policies in NY have worker's compensation built in.  Helps to cover the contractor's that do work for you and don't have it.  Also, in NY claims you submit DO impact your premiums.  We just went through that with our local municipality.  They were covering a number of entities and all rates went up due to one of the entities submitting a number of claims.

I will cede to the fact that if your employer has insurance then that will be the primary policy under which your claim would be filed.  The employer's insurance company may then look to implead the homeowner's insurance company and potentially recoup costs.
 
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