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(Kotaku)   Some Xbox One owners are reporting a malfunctioning or inoperable disc drive. Well that's one way to force people into digital downloads   (kotaku.com) divider line 246
    More: Obvious, Xbox, personnel  
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2465 clicks; posted to Geek » on 22 Nov 2013 at 1:14 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-22 05:44:39 PM
Damn my piece about cloud computing got deleted.

Without knowing anything I can safely assume that the cloud portion of it allowed the developer of the game to focus on game performance instead of saved games and online play since that is all handled through Microsoft's online xbox live cloud.

That's what a cloud does, it stores data and allows you to access it remotely. THe benefit being you can access it from any device since it's not stored locally on the hard drive.

There you learned something today. Next time just google it.
 
2013-11-22 05:45:09 PM

justtray: Luse: Ok, then please explain in great detail what the cloud technology actually does. Turn 10 has had to "clarify" their statements. You mention that no review mentions a "massive resolution drop". Does any review mention the conditions of their test? I'm assuming most of the tests are conducted online, with a gold account, "as the game was intended".

It's not my fault that MS AND Turn 10 have made a shiatload of claims that just don't make sense. If I hear someone making crazy claims, then backtracking, then making other claims then backtracking I will naturally be skeptical of what they are saying. I don't have MS hatred. The 360 was my goto console in the last gen, even tho I own both. I simply won't take everything they say at face value.

"MS server technology is capable of providing massive computational increases on a home console and streaming them live to players."

Microsoft has even claimed that very thing. They've stated that the hardware advantage (better ram) and the fact that the PS4 has more resources dedicated to gaming won't matter because of that very thing. Not my fault if they spew bullshiat, then backtrack and I refuse to buy their new line of bullshiat hook line and sinker.

Are you serious man? I literally just told you.

Luse: I don't believe it would. Turn 10 has been less then clear in their claims. I also saw some article that said that the online processing helps the tire and suspension physics. It also sounds hokey to me.

As for the bold, WTF? This was ALSO disproven to you.

Elegy: To be clear, this isn't the same as saying that the game won't run as advertised without an internet connection, only that Microsoft has shouldered the burden of providing and tuning the servers, which has allowed Turn 10 to focus on maintaining 1080p.

AND Microsoft never made that claim. Something else Elegy corrected you in the same post....


Microsoft has never claimed that the cloud enhances performance? http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/24/report-xbox-one-performance-upped-b y -cloud-processing/
 
2013-11-22 05:48:23 PM
I don't give two shiats what console people choose or if they choose no console at all. Like I've said, never had one before and I truly think both will be nice and fun and have plenty of excellent games within a year. But still, I find the endless carping about $100 to be somewhat amusing when we are discussing devices for which the cost of the console itself will be an almost insignificant percentage of the total gaming expenditure after considering the cost of the games and accessories and services, etc.
 
2013-11-22 05:49:24 PM
XBONED!
 
2013-11-22 06:00:16 PM
Disc drive? You mean people still... physically move data?
 
2013-11-22 06:06:58 PM

Scruffinator: Decillion: Dragonflew: Decillion:Xbox One will have no issues.

In my defense I was in a drunken stupor.

But I stand by it. 3 videos on youtube is not an issue.

http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1r6wb3/xbox_one_issues_so_f ar /

It's a little bit more than that, but not by much.  It looks like there's a little bit less of an issue than the PS4 had.  Well within the acceptable range of defects, anyways.

I'm actually kind of surprised it's going as well as it is.  But, the day is young, I suppose...


well, technically it's going better because Xbox Live hasn't crashed and burned like PSN did for a weekend
 
2013-11-22 06:10:59 PM
Heh. My office is across the street from my house. Just put the box inside - frankly I was thinking it would be a bigger box. I'll let you know in about three hours if it works or not...
 
2013-11-22 06:12:51 PM

Luse: Ok, then please explain in great detail what the cloud technology actually does. Turn 10 has had to "clarify" their statements. You mention that no review mentions a "massive resolution drop". Does any review mention the conditions of their test? I'm assuming most of the tests are conducted online, with a gold account, "as the game was intended".


The cloud server technology is involved in online play, and the drivatar AI system. Your drivatar is an AI composite of your driving, and it competes in online play for bonuses that accrue to you when you're not logged in.

MS and Turn 10 have been pretty specific about what the cloud technology brings to Forza.

Again - if the resolution drop is real, it will have been big news and talked about everywhere. By reviewers. By people that now own the console and the game. Gamers especially will be howling mad if their console doesn't perform as expected in single player mode.

This shouldn't be hard to prove if true.

So prove it.

Protip: you can't, because you swallowed a troll hook line and sinker.

But you know that, because you tried to search for proof and couldn't find it, right? That's why you're trying so hard to walk back your claims and blame everything on someone else right now.

It's not my fault that MS AND Turn 10 have made a shiatload of claims that just don't make sense. If I hear someone making crazy claims, then backtracking, then making other claims then backtracking I will naturally be skeptical of what they are saying.

It's your fault for believing the crazy claims of online trolls and fanbois without doing the modicum of research - really, is one search in google too hard for you? - before making a complete ass of yourself on a public forum.

I don't have MS hatred. The 360 was my goto console in the last gen, even tho I own both. I simply won't take everything they say at face value.

Really? Doesn't look like it from here. First you claimed something that was patently untrue about Forza's resolution, and then you started spinning paranoid stories about how this means Microsoft was probably going to force users to connect to XBL in order to play in 1080p60, otherwise they were going to be stuck at a lower resolution.

Now that you've been confronted with actual sources and the illogical nature of your own bullshiat has been pointed out by me and others, you're trying to backwalk and blame your own erroneous beliefs - dah dah DUM - on Microsoft.

You have Microsoft derangement syndrome, and its farking obvious from a mile away.

Luse: Microsoft has even claimed that very thing. They've stated that the hardware advantage (better ram) and the fact that the PS4 has more resources dedicated to gaming won't matter because of that very thing. Not my fault if they spew bullshiat, then backtrack and I refuse to buy their new line of bullshiat hook line and sinker.


This doesn't even make sense. You're skeptical of MS claims about the cloud power and don't think it can add anything to games, and you've been skeptical of those claims all along, you rational clear thinking logician you.

And yet, you are completely willing to believe anonymous internet trolls promulgating bad information because it confirms your bias, without stopping to think that IF Forza does experience a huge resolution drop, then it actually proves that MS can do amazing things with the cloud - the same cloud you claim you have been skeptical about this whole time.

Which is it? Is the cloud useless, or is it adding enough oomph to the console to take Forza from 720p30 to 1080p60? It can't be both - unless, of course, you're a lazy thinker willing to believe the worst in Microsoft because of your own personal axe to grind.

This has nothing to do with MS claims - neither Turn 10 nor MS claimed Forza got a resolution boost from the cloud. Ever. YOU were the one that claimed Forza got a huge boost from the cloud, and its pretty farking hilarious to watch you try and shuffle off blame for your own idiocy onto Microsoft.

Your arguments made no farking sense in the first place, and they're making even less sense the more you try to backwalk your own idiocy.

I hope you learned an important lesson today about believing internet trolls, especially internet trolls that confirm you own biases.
 
2013-11-22 06:24:00 PM

Elegy: Luse: Ok, then please explain in great detail what the cloud technology actually does. Turn 10 has had to "clarify" their statements. You mention that no review mentions a "massive resolution drop". Does any review mention the conditions of their test? I'm assuming most of the tests are conducted online, with a gold account, "as the game was intended".

This has nothing to do with MS claims - neither Turn 10 nor MS claimed Forza got a resolution boost from the cloud. Ever. YOU were the one that claimed Forza got a huge boost from the cloud, and its pretty farking hilarious to watch you try and shuffle off blame for your own idiocy onto Microsoft.
Your arguments made no farking sense in the first place, and they're making even less sense the more you try to backwalk your own idiocy.
I hope you learned an important lesson today about believing internet trolls, especially internet trolls that confirm you own biases.



Ok.

If that's too hard for you here you go.
http://vr-zone.com/articles/microsofts-phil-harrison-assures-xbox-on es -cloud-network-will-boost-graphical-performance/58135.html?utm_source= rss
http://www.oxm.co.uk/64112/xbox-one-will-get-performance-increases-o ve r-time-via-the-cloud-says-phil-harrison/
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/05/how-the-xbox-one-draws-more-pr oc essing-power-from-cloud-computing/
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/24/report-xbox-one-performance-upped- by -cloud-processing/

But I'm the one making stupid claims. Perhaps when you get Balmer's cock out of your mouth you'll bother reading what MS themselves have put out.
 
2013-11-22 06:24:38 PM

AdamK: well, technically it's going better because Xbox Live hasn't crashed and burned like PSN did for a weekend


Or for 3 months, even bringing down Netflix access.
 
2013-11-22 06:27:56 PM
Luse:Everything I said was true. It gets 1080p @ 60fps IF you have the cloud processing.

Luse: I'm the one making stupid claims.
 
2013-11-22 06:29:28 PM
Oh, here's another little gem.

And a little excerp for you to whet your appetite.


"Greenawalt says that by letting the cloud handle the AI side, the performance of Drivatar can be boosted by as much as 600 percent, letting the Xbox One hardware use that freed 20 percent of processing power on something else. "
 
2013-11-22 06:30:54 PM

Dragonflew: Luse:Everything I said was true. It gets 1080p @ 60fps IF you have the cloud processing.

Luse: I'm the one making stupid claims.


Yeah, look one post up.
 
2013-11-22 06:31:11 PM
You guys are cracking me up. I just tried to figure out who is on which side of the hair splitter and I couldn't do it.
 
2013-11-22 06:32:09 PM

Elegy: Luse: Ok, then please explain in great detail what the cloud technology actually does. Turn 10 has had to "clarify" their statements. You mention that no review mentions a "massive resolution drop". Does any review mention the conditions of their test? I'm assuming most of the tests are conducted online, with a gold account, "as the game was intended".

The cloud server technology is involved in online play, and the drivatar AI system. Your drivatar is an AI composite of your driving, and it competes in online play for bonuses that accrue to you when you're not logged in.

MS and Turn 10 have been pretty specific about what the cloud technology brings to Forza.

Again - if the resolution drop is real, it will have been big news and talked about everywhere. By reviewers. By people that now own the console and the game. Gamers especially will be howling mad if their console doesn't perform as expected in single player mode.

This shouldn't be hard to prove if true.

So prove it.

Protip: you can't, because you swallowed a troll hook line and sinker.

But you know that, because you tried to search for proof and couldn't find it, right? That's why you're trying so hard to walk back your claims and blame everything on someone else right now.

It's not my fault that MS AND Turn 10 have made a shiatload of claims that just don't make sense. If I hear someone making crazy claims, then backtracking, then making other claims then backtracking I will naturally be skeptical of what they are saying.

It's your fault for believing the crazy claims of online trolls and fanbois without doing the modicum of research - really, is one search in google too hard for you? - before making a complete ass of yourself on a public forum.

I don't have MS hatred. The 360 was my goto console in the last gen, even tho I own both. I simply won't take everything they say at face value.

Really? Doesn't look like it from here. First you claimed something that was patently untrue about Forza's reso ...


Digital Foundry already said they are going to test the game on and offline. That should clear everything up.
 
2013-11-22 06:40:22 PM

JohnBigBootay: I don't give two shiats what console people choose or if they choose no console at all. Like I've said, never had one before and I truly think both will be nice and fun and have plenty of excellent games within a year. But still, I find the endless carping about $100 to be somewhat amusing when we are discussing devices for which the cost of the console itself will be an almost insignificant percentage of the total gaming expenditure after considering the cost of the games and accessories and services, etc.


yeah... (sigh) i spent too much money on console gaming last gen, i plan on never doing that again
 
2013-11-22 06:50:20 PM

Dragonflew: Luse:Everything I said was true. It gets 1080p @ 60fps IF you have the cloud processing.

Luse: I'm the one making stupid claims.


Elegy:


This shouldn't be hard to prove if true.

So prove it.

Protip: you can't, because you swallowed a troll hook line and sinker.


Really? Doesn't look like it from here. First you claimed something that was patently untrue about Forza's reso ...


justtray:

There you learned something today. Next time just google it.


"When you've got a learning neural network, more computing power is nothing but helpful. Because what you're able to do is process a lot more information, and you don't have to do it in real-time on the box. And that frees up more of the box to be doing graphics or audio or other computational areas," said Greenawalt. "So we can now make our AI instead of just being 20%, 10% of the box's capability, we can make it 600% of the box's capability. Put it in the cloud and free up that 10% or 20% to make the graphics better - on a box that's already more powerful than we worked on before."

broncotalk.net
 
2013-11-22 06:51:07 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-11-22 06:51:12 PM

AdamK: JohnBigBootay: I don't give two shiats what console people choose or if they choose no console at all. Like I've said, never had one before and I truly think both will be nice and fun and have plenty of excellent games within a year. But still, I find the endless carping about $100 to be somewhat amusing when we are discussing devices for which the cost of the console itself will be an almost insignificant percentage of the total gaming expenditure after considering the cost of the games and accessories and services, etc.

yeah... (sigh) i spent too much money on console gaming last gen, i plan on never doing that again


I hope I don't do that. But at 48 and working 50 hours a week and working on my house constantly i doubt it will be a problem. Especially since my extremely limited gaming exposure features me getting a  dude stuck against a wall and then quitting. It ain't like I'm going to 'finish' a game, probably ever. Therefore I don't think I'll spend all that much money on games.
 
2013-11-22 06:54:27 PM

Luse: Elegy: Luse: Ok, then please explain in great detail what the cloud technology actually does. Turn 10 has had to "clarify" their statements. You mention that no review mentions a "massive resolution drop". Does any review mention the conditions of their test? I'm assuming most of the tests are conducted online, with a gold account, "as the game was intended".

This has nothing to do with MS claims - neither Turn 10 nor MS claimed Forza got a resolution boost from the cloud. Ever. YOU were the one that claimed Forza got a huge boost from the cloud, and its pretty farking hilarious to watch you try and shuffle off blame for your own idiocy onto Microsoft.
Your arguments made no farking sense in the first place, and they're making even less sense the more you try to backwalk your own idiocy.
I hope you learned an important lesson today about believing internet trolls, especially internet trolls that confirm you own biases.


Ok.

If that's too hard for you here you go.
http://vr-zone.com/articles/microsofts-phil-harrison-assures-xbox-on es -cloud-network-will-boost-graphical-performance/58135.html?utm_source= rss
http://www.oxm.co.uk/64112/xbox-one-will-get-performance-increases-o ve r-time-via-the-cloud-says-phil-harrison/
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/05/how-the-xbox-one-draws-more-pr oc essing-power-from-cloud-computing/
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/24/report-xbox-one-performance-upped- by -cloud-processing/

But I'm the one making stupid claims. Perhaps when you get Balmer's cock out of your mouth you'll bother reading what MS themselves have put out.


You're farking precious.

You hear this everyone? It's MICROSOFT'S fault Luse believed a bunch of stupid things that he read on the Internet. It's MICROSOFT'S fault that was in this thread, bashing Microsoft about a frame rate drop in Forza that doesn't actually exist. It's all MICROSOFT'S fault that Luse spread lies on the Internet and gets called out on it.

Why, oh why, does Microsoft make Luse beat them so?

/for added hilarity, note that he has repeatedly said he never believed Microsoft about the power of the cloud in the first place, so there is absolutely no logical way to connect "not believing Microsoft" to "believing the power of the cloud is so advance it virtually doubles Forza's resolution an framerate" as a defense to why he believes such stupid things
 
2013-11-22 06:58:32 PM
When the government had a glitch in obamacare, people said it was incompetence.  What's this?
 
2013-11-22 06:59:25 PM

Elegy: Luse: Elegy: Luse: Ok, then please explain in great detail what the cloud technology actually does. Turn 10 has had to "clarify" their statements. You mention that no review mentions a "massive resolution drop". Does any review mention the conditions of their test? I'm assuming most of the tests are conducted online, with a gold account, "as the game was intended".

This has nothing to do with MS claims - neither Turn 10 nor MS claimed Forza got a resolution boost from the cloud. Ever. YOU were the one that claimed Forza got a huge boost from the cloud, and its pretty farking hilarious to watch you try and shuffle off blame for your own idiocy onto Microsoft.
Your arguments made no farking sense in the first place, and they're making even less sense the more you try to backwalk your own idiocy.
I hope you learned an important lesson today about believing internet trolls, especially internet trolls that confirm you own biases.


Ok.

If that's too hard for you here you go.
http://vr-zone.com/articles/microsofts-phil-harrison-assures-xbox-on es -cloud-network-will-boost-graphical-performance/58135.html?utm_source= rss
http://www.oxm.co.uk/64112/xbox-one-will-get-performance-increases-o ve r-time-via-the-cloud-says-phil-harrison/
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/05/how-the-xbox-one-draws-more-pr oc essing-power-from-cloud-computing/
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/24/report-xbox-one-performance-upped- by -cloud-processing/

But I'm the one making stupid claims. Perhaps when you get Balmer's cock out of your mouth you'll bother reading what MS themselves have put out.

You're farking precious.

You hear this everyone? It's MICROSOFT'S fault Luse believed a bunch of stupid things that he read on the Internet. It's MICROSOFT'S fault that was in this thread, bashing Microsoft about a frame rate drop in Forza that doesn't actually exist. It's all MICROSOFT'S fault that Luse spread lies on the Internet and gets called out on it.

Why, oh why, does Microsoft make Luse beat t ...


Aaaaand when I prove that both MS and Turn 10 claimed the cloud would give Forza 5 a boost you're back to the personal attacks. I'm sorry reality has such an anti-Elegy lean.

/no I'm not
 
2013-11-22 07:13:58 PM

Luse: Dragonflew: Luse:Everything I said was true. It gets 1080p @ 60fps IF you have the cloud processing.

Luse: I'm the one making stupid claims.

Yeah, look one post up.


Sorry, which link says that Forza will not be 1080p offline?
 
2013-11-22 07:17:53 PM

Dragonflew: Luse: Dragonflew: Luse:Everything I said was true. It gets 1080p @ 60fps IF you have the cloud processing.

Luse: I'm the one making stupid claims.

Yeah, look one post up.


My post below it strongly seems to hint that there will be a 20% graphics hit when not online. This claim is made by Turn 10.
I know you're slow, but do try to keep up.
 
2013-11-22 07:25:33 PM
When I think of heavy crunching intensive processing power I certainly don't think to driving games where the opponents have essentially four controls and an already established optimum path, couple that with grade ten physics and geometry and you've got a perfect driver.  No, when I think of heavy processing that'd benefit from offloaded decisions given to 'the cloud' I'd say Civ or RTS games.  So far I think all this cloud stuff is crock 'o shiat marketing gimmick, no more capable or relevant then EA's hilarious attempt to claim the same with Simcity.

To suggest a cloud effort could in any way aid in the graphical performance of an end-unit on the wrong side of the processing sea is laughable.  Even if you tried to implement it you'd end up with a latency that'd make the previous gen consoles look sharp and responsive.
 
2013-11-22 07:25:41 PM
Whenever I see a Microsoft thread, it's fun to count all the people posting "those kittens deserved it."
 
2013-11-22 07:29:37 PM

BumpInTheNight: When I think of heavy crunching intensive processing power I certainly don't think to driving games where the opponents have essentially four controls and an already established optimum path, couple that with grade ten physics and geometry and you've got a perfect driver.  No, when I think of heavy processing that'd benefit from offloaded decisions given to 'the cloud' I'd say Civ or RTS games.  So far I think all this cloud stuff is crock 'o shiat marketing gimmick, no more capable or relevant then EA's hilarious attempt to claim the same with Simcity.

To suggest a cloud effort could in any way aid in the graphical performance of an end-unit on the wrong side of the processing sea is laughable.  Even if you tried to implement it you'd end up with a latency that'd make the previous gen consoles look sharp and responsive.


The claim confused me as well, especially coming from the developer. This is one reason I'm very curioius about the test Digital Foundry is going to run.
 
2013-11-22 07:32:12 PM

frepnog: Smelly McUgly: Smeggy Smurf: Meanwhile PC gaming laughs at your little toys

I PC game for some stuff (mostly Civ and RTS-style games, some platformers too), but I just prefer a console for most of my gaming. Probably this is because I grew up with an Atari joystick and then a NES controller in my hands.

I also like knowing that if I get a disc for my PS4, it will definitely run optimally. Sometimes, I'll download a game from Steam or GOG and it doesn't really run well at all. :(

what kills me here is sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to it.  The Swapper, for instance.  By all standards I can see, my machine should run that no issue.  Game REFUSES to run.  The Cave?  Runs great at 720, is a slideshow at 1080.  L4D 1 and 2?  LIKE BUTTER at 1080 (all steam).


Sorry to threadjack, but does Steam allow a refund if the game doesn't work (assuming your specs exceed what they require)? I've been thinking about getting a few games for my mid-grade laptop. I don't mind lower settings, but I gave up pc gaming after one too many games wouldn't play on my system.
 
2013-11-22 07:33:29 PM

BumpInTheNight: When I think of heavy crunching intensive processing power I certainly don't think to driving games where the opponents have essentially four controls and an already established optimum path, couple that with grade ten physics and geometry and you've got a perfect driver.  No, when I think of heavy processing that'd benefit from offloaded decisions given to 'the cloud' I'd say Civ or RTS games.  So far I think all this cloud stuff is crock 'o shiat marketing gimmick, no more capable or relevant then EA's hilarious attempt to claim the same with Simcity.

To suggest a cloud effort could in any way aid in the graphical performance of an end-unit on the wrong side of the processing sea is laughable.  Even if you tried to implement it you'd end up with a latency that'd make the previous gen consoles look sharp and responsive.


Exactly.

While Luse is now shifting from his position that was proven false, he is STILL wrong.

The concept of increasing performance through the cloud is theoretical and highly dependend upon ping to said location and heavily limited to the types of data it can process.

Since the data in a real time game is time sensitive, not only is the processing speed of the cloud important, but the time it takes to transfer there and back also needs to be calculated and optimized for each individual. This is not practical in most game settings. It could be if everyone and the cloud itself were on a local network, which is a supercomputer.

Let us reiterate though, the argument is not about whether or not it's possible to increase performance with additional computers, we know that is possible but not practical.

The argument was that the game Fonza would only get 1080p if connected to the cloud. This has always been, and is still objectively false.
 
2013-11-22 07:34:13 PM

Luse: Aaaaand when I prove that both MS and Turn 10 claimed the cloud would give Forza 5 a boost you're back to the personal attacks. I'm sorry reality has such an anti-Elegy lean.

/no I'm not


Dude, first you come into this thread spouting lies about an offline Forza resolution drop. You got told you were wrong and you doubled down and insisted that what you said was true; myself and other people ridiculed you for believing such a stupid idea in the first place, and pointed out that every source we could find refuted what you were saying.

During the course being proven wrong, you said you never believed MS when they said the cloud would give a boost to games. "Just because Microsoft CLAIMS something does not make it true, unless you think all of their claims have been completely honest in the past," you said. "Not my fault if they spew bullshiat, then backtrack and I refuse to buy their new line of bullshiat hook line and sinker," you said.

Now you're insisting that the only reason you believed the original bullshiat you were spouting is because of all these things that Microsoft said about the power of the cloud led you to believe the internet trolls about the Forza framerate drop.......

At this point, there there really isn't much left BUT ridicule you. You've obviously incapable of logical, rational discussion. All you're going to do is whip out your dick and wave your tiny little hate boner around for the whole world to see.
 
2013-11-22 07:34:39 PM

Luse: Dragonflew: Luse: Dragonflew: Luse:Everything I said was true. It gets 1080p @ 60fps IF you have the cloud processing.

Luse: I'm the one making stupid claims.

Yeah, look one post up.

My post below it strongly seems to hint that there will be a 20% graphics hit when not online. This claim is made by Turn 10.
I know you're slow, but do try to keep up.


Christ, you're insufferable. I am still asking you to back up your claim that Forza "gets 1080p @ 60fps IF you have the cloud processing". With your "IF", you are saying Forza will not be 1080p unless you're online.
 
2013-11-22 07:35:06 PM

stewbert: frepnog: Smelly McUgly: Smeggy Smurf: Meanwhile PC gaming laughs at your little toys

I PC game for some stuff (mostly Civ and RTS-style games, some platformers too), but I just prefer a console for most of my gaming. Probably this is because I grew up with an Atari joystick and then a NES controller in my hands.

I also like knowing that if I get a disc for my PS4, it will definitely run optimally. Sometimes, I'll download a game from Steam or GOG and it doesn't really run well at all. :(

what kills me here is sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to it.  The Swapper, for instance.  By all standards I can see, my machine should run that no issue.  Game REFUSES to run.  The Cave?  Runs great at 720, is a slideshow at 1080.  L4D 1 and 2?  LIKE BUTTER at 1080 (all steam).

Sorry to threadjack, but does Steam allow a refund if the game doesn't work (assuming your specs exceed what they require)? I've been thinking about getting a few games for my mid-grade laptop. I don't mind lower settings, but I gave up pc gaming after one too many games wouldn't play on my system.


As a matter of policy, Steam doesn't give refunds, but I've heard from some people that they've been able to have an exception made.
 
2013-11-22 07:37:32 PM

stewbert: Sorry to threadjack, but does Steam allow a refund if the game doesn't work (assuming your specs exceed what they require)? I've been thinking about getting a few games for my mid-grade laptop. I don't mind lower settings, but I gave up pc gaming after one too many games wouldn't play on my system.


Its a mixed bag on refunds, I'm watching the fallout from X:  Rebirth's launch for instance and it looks like anyone who's played the game less then 10 hours and demands a refund more then once tends to get one.  There's at least one guy who's attempting to go the charge-back route but got pretty quiet after a few hours of boastful celebration.  The trouble with indie developers is they are all over the map in terms of good technique that brings out the performance of the quadmire of PC hardware, I tend to be sport high-end desktop hardware so I can usually murgle through it via brute force application of hardware but yah with a laptop you gotta pick your battles.

I think the best course would be don't pre-order and watch the steam forums for reactions to the game's performance before purchasing anything.
 
2013-11-22 07:40:49 PM

Elegy: Luse: Aaaaand when I prove that both MS and Turn 10 claimed the cloud would give Forza 5 a boost you're back to the personal attacks. I'm sorry reality has such an anti-Elegy lean.

/no I'm not

Dude, first you come into this thread spouting lies about an offline Forza resolution drop. You got told you were wrong and you doubled down and insisted that what you said was true; myself and other people ridiculed you for believing such a stupid idea in the first place, and pointed out that every source we could find refuted what you were saying.

During the course being proven wrong, you said you never believed MS when they said the cloud would give a boost to games. "Just because Microsoft CLAIMS something does not make it true, unless you think all of their claims have been completely honest in the past," you said. "Not my fault if they spew bullshiat, then backtrack and I refuse to buy their new line of bullshiat hook line and sinker," you said.

Now you're insisting that the only reason you believed the original bullshiat you were spouting is because of all these things that Microsoft said about the power of the cloud led you to believe the internet trolls about the Forza framerate drop.......

At this point, there there really isn't much left BUT ridicule you. You've obviously incapable of logical, rational discussion. All you're going to do is whip out your dick and wave your tiny little hate boner around for the whole world to see.


That wasn't the only thing I said. The RM4FM model was also a part of the decision. Even if you discount what Microsoft has said, Turn 10 still said both that the cloud frees up 20% of the processor for graphics AND in a separate statement said that Forza 5's graphics couldn't be accomplished  without the cloud. Now take those 2 statements, put them together and you have a possible conclusion.
I said I was glad I held out. I am. Digital Foundry is obviously curious about this as well, as they will be running a test of both modes. I am waiting to see what they say. I've even asked all 3 of you douches to point to a test that was run offline. Instead you built strawmen because I said "Fark you Microsoft"
Farking corporate fanboys
 
2013-11-22 07:43:18 PM

Luse: Turn 10 still said both that the cloud frees up 20% of the processor for graphics AND in a separate statement said that Forza 5's graphics couldn't be accomplished without the cloud. Now take those 2 statements, put them together and you have a possible conclusion.


My conclusion would be that Turn 10 is gargling MS's bawls in exchange for release spotlight publicity. ;)
 
2013-11-22 07:45:33 PM

BumpInTheNight: Luse: Turn 10 still said both that the cloud frees up 20% of the processor for graphics AND in a separate statement said that Forza 5's graphics couldn't be accomplished without the cloud. Now take those 2 statements, put them together and you have a possible conclusion.

My conclusion would be that Turn 10 is gargling MS's bawls in exchange for release spotlight publicity. ;)


A good conclusion. I would imagine they wouldn't have to tho, being an exclusive and all. MS needs them as much, if not more than they need MS.
 
2013-11-22 08:09:24 PM

Luse: AND in a separate statement said that Forza 5's graphics couldn't be accomplished  without the cloud.

Except that's Turn 10 never said what you are implying they said. Did you not watch or read the interview I linked? Turn 10 said that allowing MS to focus on the cloud freed them up to focus on making sure the game ran 1080p60.

I said I was glad I held out. I am. Digital Foundry is obviously curious about this as well, as they will be running a test of both modes. I am waiting to see what they say. I've even asked all 3 of you douches to point to a test that was run offline.


It's YOUR claim. YOU have to prove it. Especially considering I posted links that explicitly say that there is no framerate drop, and multiple people have said they can find no source that backs up your claims.

Farking corporate fanboys

That pretty farking rich, coming from someone who has been humiliated in this thread over a bullshiat claim that multiple people have said they have researched and found to be not true, and whose sole response has been to wharblegarble about how horrible Microsoft is. I suppose it never occurred to you that people are pushing back against your bullshiat not because they love Microsoft, but because your an idiot spouting idiot things that don't even hold up to a cursory examination

I'll tell you what: put your money where your mouth is and bet with me.

1 month of TF on the outcome of the Digital Foundry tests that you say are happening.
I win if Forza stays in 1080p in offline mode.
You win if Forza drops to 720p in offline mode.

Shouldn't be a problem, because you're so obviously correct, right? Like taking money from a baby even.
 
2013-11-22 08:10:05 PM
Hey PC master race.  My prebuilt dell (Got it for a spiffy price) has a 460.0 watts power supply with a
AMD Radeon HD 7570 card. What would be a good suggestion for a beefier card that is fine for my power supply,
 
2013-11-22 08:17:15 PM

Macfine: Hey PC master race.  My prebuilt dell (Got it for a spiffy price) has a 460.0 watts power supply with a
AMD Radeon HD 7570 card. What would be a good suggestion for a beefier card that is fine for my power supply,


That depends how much other bullshiat you're trying to plug into it.  Is it an AMD cpu?  Have a RAID array?  Do you want to stick with Radeon or move to a slightly more solvent company like Nvidia?

Anyway: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/279391-28-power-requirements-specs- p opular-graphic-cards-guide
 
2013-11-22 08:21:13 PM
If you guys were going to rage over something, you could have at least raged at the fact that Turn 10 and Microsoft are allegedly selling some of their virtual cars for $100.
 
2013-11-22 08:22:11 PM
intel I5 CPU , No Raid array. No brand loyalty at all, fine with Nvidia.

Or would it be more worth my time to just upgrade the psu too?
 
2013-11-22 08:22:13 PM
I'll also add that the new Forza absolutely pisses all over their longtime fans.
 
2013-11-22 08:22:19 PM

Macfine: Hey PC master race.  My prebuilt dell (Got it for a spiffy price) has a 460.0 watts power supply with a
AMD Radeon HD 7570 card. What would be a good suggestion for a beefier card that is fine for my power supply,


Honestly, with a 460W PSU (as long as it's reliably 460W), in an otherwise standard system (no RAID arrays or anything like that), I don't think you'll have a problem powering any single-GPU card you like.  So the question then, becomes, what's your budget?
 
2013-11-22 08:22:59 PM

Elegy: Luse: AND in a separate statement said that Forza 5's graphics couldn't be accomplished  without the cloud.

Except that's Turn 10 never said what you are implying they said. Did you not watch or read the interview I linked? Turn 10 said that allowing MS to focus on the cloud freed them up to focus on making sure the game ran 1080p60.

I said I was glad I held out. I am. Digital Foundry is obviously curious about this as well, as they will be running a test of both modes. I am waiting to see what they say. I've even asked all 3 of you douches to point to a test that was run offline.

It's YOUR claim. YOU have to prove it. Especially considering I posted links that explicitly say that there is no framerate drop, and multiple people have said they can find no source that backs up your claims.

Farking corporate fanboys

That pretty farking rich, coming from someone who has been humiliated in this thread over a bullshiat claim that multiple people have said they have researched and found to be not true, and whose sole response has been to wharblegarble about how horrible Microsoft is. I suppose it never occurred to you that people are pushing back against your bullshiat not because they love Microsoft, but because your an idiot spouting idiot things that don't even hold up to a cursory examination

I'll tell you what: put your money where your mouth is and bet with me.

1 month of TF on the outcome of the Digital Foundry tests that you say are happening.
I win if Forza stays in 1080p in offline mode.
You win if Forza drops to 720p in offline mode.

Shouldn't be a problem, because you're so obviously correct, right? Like taking money from a baby even.


Please point out where I said I was certain that it does. All I said is I'm glad I waited as there's alot of bs coming out of both the developer and MS. Also, I can't take credit for the Digital Foundry test. Carth actually read what I said and was kind enough to offer the information. I am very curious what the result will be. I don't think it will drop to 720p to be honest, but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't "locked at 60fps" either as some of the reviews claim. We shall see. Altho if it is a drop to 720p I can't wait to see the mental gymnastics.
 
2013-11-22 08:25:02 PM

HeartBurnKid: Honestly, with a 460W PSU (as long as it's reliably 460W), in an otherwise standard system (no RAID arrays or anything like that), I don't think you'll have a problem powering any single-GPU card you like. So the question then, becomes, what's your budget


Budget up to 350 ish.  But I'd rather min max the price to benefit ratio.  If I can get something almost as good for noticeably less i'd prefer that.
 
2013-11-22 08:25:34 PM

Glitchwerks: If you guys were going to rage over something, you could have at least raged at the fact that Turn 10 and Microsoft are allegedly selling some of their virtual cars for $100.


The funny thing is my original post mentioned that one of my big gripes was the RM4FM business model. Not sure of the costs involved, but fark that, the idea is offensive.
 
2013-11-22 08:33:28 PM

Macfine: HeartBurnKid: Honestly, with a 460W PSU (as long as it's reliably 460W), in an otherwise standard system (no RAID arrays or anything like that), I don't think you'll have a problem powering any single-GPU card you like. So the question then, becomes, what's your budget

Budget up to 350 ish.  But I'd rather min max the price to benefit ratio.  If I can get something almost as good for noticeably less i'd prefer that.


Aim for the $200 card range then, the GTX760s and AMD 7870s are awful competitive and sport about 75% of the horse power of their much pricier bigger brothers.  I'm an team Nvidia person myself, I appreciate having fresh SLI profiles for the latest games within a few days of their release and drivers that come out more then once a season.  AMD has its strengths too, they're made by company with pretty names like Sapphire and PowerColor for instance.
 
2013-11-22 08:37:06 PM

Macfine: Budget up to 350 ish. But I'd rather min max the price to benefit ratio. If I can get something almost as good for noticeably less i'd prefer that.


Actually something that needs to be asked though:  What particular Dell is yours?  Got a model number?  I only ask because it'd be a real shame to buy a double-slot wide card and find out the damned chassis can only physically fit a single slot card.  Also what's the age on the PSU?  460 is what its supposed to be working at right off the factory floor, over time they lose some of their luster.
 
2013-11-22 08:37:33 PM

BumpInTheNight: Macfine: HeartBurnKid: Honestly, with a 460W PSU (as long as it's reliably 460W), in an otherwise standard system (no RAID arrays or anything like that), I don't think you'll have a problem powering any single-GPU card you like. So the question then, becomes, what's your budget

Budget up to 350 ish.  But I'd rather min max the price to benefit ratio.  If I can get something almost as good for noticeably less i'd prefer that.

Aim for the $200 card range then, the GTX760s and AMD 7870s are awful competitive and sport about 75% of the horse power of their much pricier bigger brothers.  I'm an team Nvidia person myself, I appreciate having fresh SLI profiles for the latest games within a few days of their release and drivers that come out more then once a season.  AMD has its strengths too, they're made by company with pretty names like Sapphire and PowerColor for instance.


Count me with team Nvidia. Switched to them when I built my last 2 boxes and never looked back. Much more stable as well.
 
2013-11-22 08:52:48 PM

BumpInTheNight: Actually something that needs to be asked though: What particular Dell is yours? Got a model number? I only ask because it'd be a real shame to buy a double-slot wide card and find out the damned chassis can only physically fit a single slot card. Also what's the age on the PSU? 460 is what its supposed to be working at right off the factory floor, over time they lose some of their luster.


Rig will be a year in Feb. XPS 8500  is the model number. I wouldn't expect a double slot.
 
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