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(Talking Points Memo)   Congressional scholar at conservative think tank says that the Republicans are at fault for forcing Reid to detonate the nuclear option, saying, "It was a set of actions begging for a return nuclear response"   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 111
    More: Obvious, Republican Force, Norman Ornstein, think tanks, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, American Enterprise Institute, Party leaders of the United States Senate, Mitch McConnell, students  
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1696 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Nov 2013 at 1:58 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-22 11:23:23 AM
ornstein has been pretty critical of the GOP's hyper-partisan tactics for years.
 
2013-11-22 11:24:58 AM
Yep.
 
2013-11-22 11:28:46 AM
We need an actual nuclear option where we blow up Ted Cruz on a South Pacific island.
 
2013-11-22 11:30:09 AM
RINODERP!
 
2013-11-22 11:32:25 AM

Tigger: We need an actual nuclear option where we blow up Ted Cruz on a South Pacific island.


I don't think there were any Cana-Mexes in that musical.
 
2013-11-22 11:48:38 AM
Add him to the list!

While you're at it, add the Constitution to the list
 
2013-11-22 11:54:42 AM

Tigger: We need an actual nuclear option where we blow up Ted Cruz on a South Pacific island.


Call these guys:

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-11-22 12:15:32 PM
CTTINO
 
2013-11-22 12:16:21 PM

ManateeGag: Add him to the list!

While you're at it, add the Constitution to the list


How about this for a start.
List of People Conspiring Against the GOP, and therefore, America (LOPCATGOPATA for short):
Liberals Link
Democrats Link
Socialists Link
Community Organizers Link
Geologists Link
Biologists Link
Meteorologists Link
Climatologists Link
Atheists Link
Muslims Link
Jews Link
Satan Link
ABC Link
NBC Link
CNN Link
CBS Link
PBS Link
All of cable news except FNC
The New York Times
The LA Times
The Washington Post
The Associated Press
Reuters
BBC
The Guardian
Black People
Mexicans
Human Rights Activists
SCOTUS
Europe
Movie Industry
Television Industry
Environmentalists
ACLU
The United Nations
Labor Unions Link
Colleges
Teachers (including kindergarten teachers) Link
Professors
ACORN Link
Planned Parenthood Link
National Endowment for the Arts Link
Fashion Industry Link
Gays
Judges Link
NPR Link
Paleontologists
Astrophysicists
Museums (*except Creationism Museum)
WHO
WTO
Inflated tires Link
The Honolulu Advertiser Link
The Star Bulletin Link
Teletubbies Link
Sponge Bob and Patrick Link
Nobel Prize Committee Link
US Census Bureau Link
NOAA Link
Sesame Street Link
Comic Books Link
Little Green Footballs Link
Video Games Link
The Bible Link
CBO Link
Bruce Springsteen Link
Pennies Link
The Theory of Relativity Link
Comedy Central Link
Young People
whatever the hell a Justin Beiber is Link
Small Business Owners Link
Math Link
CPAC Link
Navy SEALs Link
The Economist
The Muppets Link
Iowa Republicans
Low-Flow Toilets Link
Breast Cancer Screenings Link
Chrysler Link
Clint Eastwood. Link
Robert Deniro Link
Tom Hanks Link
Glenn Frey Link
Norman Rockwell Link
James Cameron Link
Dr. Seus
Nuns Link
Supreme Court Justice John Roberts Link
Jonathan Krohn at age 17 Link
Fact Checkers Link
Australia Link
Mitt Romney
Rasmussen
Fox News
Lockheed Martin Link
Bureau of Labor Statistics Link
Paul Ryan Link
Debate moderators Link
Ben Stein Link
Soup kitchens Link
Chris Christie Link
Nate Silver (FiveThirtyEight.com) Link
Fox Polling
US Postal Service
Associated Press
Hurricanes Link
Susan Collins Link
Lisa Murkowski Link
Dean Heller Link
Mark Kirk Link
Lindsey Graham Link
Governor Bobby Jindal Link
General Petreaus Link
Saxby Chambliss Link
God Link
Girl Scouts Link
Boston Tea Party Link
Vegetables Link
American Indians Link
Stephen King, Tom Coburn, Jeff Flake, Alan Simpson, John McCain Link
John Boehner Link
Rainbows Link
SimCity Link
Bono Link
Bono Impersonators Link
Brookings Institution Link
Tax Policy Centre Link
Dogs Link
Pollsters Link
Matt Drudge Link
Mitch McConnel Link
Juan Williams Link
Ted Cruz Link
Twitter Link
Anne Coulter Link
Google Cache Link
Guns & Ammo Magazine Link
American Enterprise Institute (Conservative Think Tank) Link
 
2013-11-22 12:55:35 PM
I think everyone agrees with that assessment.
 
2013-11-22 12:56:10 PM
Basically, yes.

They filibustered a guy I used to work with, Jonathon Woodson on his post as Assistant Secretary of Defense for Health Affairs. Sure, he was a Dean of a top Medical School, a three star general, and an expert on amputations AND on battle field hospitals, but that's no reason to a make him the military's top doctor.
 
2013-11-22 12:57:59 PM
You know what would be nice? If we abolished the filibuster entirely, thereby increasing actual electoral accountability. Wouldn't it be awesome to know that if you voted for party X, they'd be able to actually govern, and then you could decide whether or not to re-elect them based on the results? It would be like an actual functioning democracy or something. Crazy pants!
 
2013-11-22 01:03:40 PM

DamnYankees: You know what would be nice? If we abolished the filibuster entirely, thereby increasing actual electoral accountability. Wouldn't it be awesome to know that if you voted for party X, they'd be able to actually govern, and then you could decide whether or not to re-elect them based on the results? It would be like an actual functioning democracy or something. Crazy pants!


Thanks actually a very good point.  They have using the filibuster to block things without actually going on record on blocking thing.

Didn't the Senate actually vote to condemn the re-opening of the Government after the voted to re-open the Government.  They have to go to outrageous lengths to not be associated with their own voting record.
 
2013-11-22 01:34:30 PM
I think we'd all have less problems with the filibuster if it was limited to its original intention of protecting the interests of individual states, instead of being used as a partisan weapon.

Have we all forgotten the perils of the Golden Liberty of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
 
2013-11-22 01:40:48 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: I think we'd all have less problems with the filibuster if it was limited to its original intention of protecting the interests of individual states, instead of being used as a partisan weapon.


That was not the original intention of the filibuster. The filibuster didn't have an original intention - it's invention was a mistake. The timeline is simple:

1789-1805: Senate has a weird arcane rule that basically requires multiple motions to do stuff for no reason.

1805: Aaron Burr tells the Senate they are awesome, but they have weird rules and should abolish some of them because they aren't necessary. They do so.

1805-1837: Nothing happens, business as usual.

1837: Some dude realizes that as a result of the reforms of 1805, he can actually keep talking and the Senate has no ability to stop him. Filibuster is thereby invented by accident.

1837 - 1917: Filibuster does its thing until it becomes intolerable during WWI. Wilson flips the fark out, tells the Senate to get their shiat together. They fix the filibuster by inventing cloture; if you can get 2/3 of Senators to vote for you to shut the fark up already, you have to.

1917 - 1975: New filibuster does its thing, destroying tons of civil rights and anti-lynching legislation in the process. Reform in 1975 does two things. First, it removes the requirement to actually keep talking; now all you need to do is threaten to filibuster and that basically does the same thing. Secondly, cloture thresheld is moved from 67 to 60.

That's the history. Nothing in there ever was designed so that the filibuster did anything to protect anyone. It's a historical accident, a mistake. We need to abolish it.
 
2013-11-22 01:54:31 PM

Tigger: We need an actual nuclear option where we blow up Ted Cruz on a South Pacific island.


That's a terrible idea.  You think Ted's bad now?  Try Cruzilla!
 
2013-11-22 01:55:33 PM
Anyone know if they're still allowed to put solitary, anonymous holds on stuff?
 
2013-11-22 01:59:26 PM
Uhh. Yeah.
 
2013-11-22 02:01:19 PM
Obviously.    Very much so.    Forced it wa...
 
2013-11-22 02:01:49 PM
Maybe if conservatives don't like conservatives being critical of conservatives, conservatives should consider no longer playing this extended game of grab-ass with the teabaggers and get back to doing the work for which they were elected like goddamn adults?
 
2013-11-22 02:03:29 PM
maybe it was part of their cunning plan all along! for the long term gain when they gain 1000 years of republican... um reign?
 
2013-11-22 02:04:43 PM
Unpossible.  Republicans are never at fault for anything, ever.
 
2013-11-22 02:05:12 PM
But don't you call them racist, FTC:

"Are you Obama?
If ONegro's jack booted thugs are as effective as the Obamacare website - then WE will put them in the FEMA camps you effing retard."
 
2013-11-22 02:05:18 PM
I think he's right about goading the democrats in to taking action so they can remove the entire thing.

But, they were going to do it ten years ago anyway.

Whether Reid did this or not, I just assumed the next GOP senate/president combo would nuke it.
 
2013-11-22 02:05:52 PM

Almost Everybody Poops: But don't you call them racist, FTC:

"Are you Obama?
If ONegro's jack booted thugs are as effective as the Obamacare website - then WE will put them in the FEMA camps you effing retard."


Oops, wrong thread.  That was supposed to go in the "Area Man" thread.
 
2013-11-22 02:07:17 PM

Virtual Pariah: Uhh. Yeah.


Pssh. Meh.

/Y'know?
 
2013-11-22 02:07:24 PM

FlashHarry: ornstein has been pretty critical of the GOP's hyper-partisan tactics for years.


I'm surprised they haven't stoned him yet.
 
2013-11-22 02:07:45 PM

skozlaw: Maybe if conservatives don't like conservatives being critical of conservatives, conservatives should consider no longer playing this extended game of grab-ass with the teabaggers and get back to doing the work for which they were elected like goddamn adults?


That's the thing that gets me, these tactics are so amateurish and keep blowing up in their face. They really have devolved in to a childlike mode where everything is a reaction or a threat. They've seemingly lost any ability to plan ahead and have taken to actions that have shorter and shorter political shelf lives.
 
2013-11-22 02:08:42 PM
Has he been waterboarded yet?
 
2013-11-22 02:08:49 PM

Almost Everybody Poops: But don't you call them racist, FTC:

"Are you Obama?
If ONegro's jack booted thugs are as effective as the Obamacare website - then WE will put them in the FEMA camps you effing retard."


That's racist of you to point out there racism.
 
2013-11-22 02:09:04 PM

HotWingConspiracy: skozlaw: Maybe if conservatives don't like conservatives being critical of conservatives, conservatives should consider no longer playing this extended game of grab-ass with the teabaggers and get back to doing the work for which they were elected like goddamn adults?

That's the thing that gets me, these tactics are so amateurish and keep blowing up in their face. They really have devolved in to a childlike mode where everything is a reaction or a threat. They've seemingly lost any ability to plan ahead and have taken to actions that have shorter and shorter political shelf lives.


But since their voters have the attention span of a gold fish it doesn't matter.
 
2013-11-22 02:11:38 PM
Called a RINO by Fox News commentators in 3...2...
 
2013-11-22 02:12:44 PM

mrshowrules: Almost Everybody Poops: But don't you call them racist, FTC:

"Are you Obama?
If ONegro's jack booted thugs are as effective as the Obamacare website - then WE will put them in the FEMA camps you effing retard."

That's racist of you to point out there racism.


Race pimps, the both of you.
 
2013-11-22 02:12:47 PM

bmongar: But since their voters have the attention span of a gold fish it doesn't matter.


In those voters' defense, they also have about the same life expectancy of a goldfish.
 
2013-11-22 02:15:49 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: Virtual Pariah: Uhh. Yeah.

Pssh. Meh.

/Y'know?


Humph!
 
2013-11-22 02:24:59 PM

Pants full of macaroni!!: Unpossible.  Republicans are never at fault for anything, ever.


They are Pope-like in their infallibility, what with being god's own party and all.  Only one side is bad, because they are in league with demons.  Why can't Americans understand this?
 
2013-11-22 02:27:41 PM

ivan: UrukHaiGuyz: Virtual Pariah: Uhh. Yeah.

Pssh. Meh.

/Y'know?

Humph!


Hey, I didn't get a harumph from that guy!
 
2013-11-22 02:28:16 PM

sugardave: Pants full of macaroni!!: Unpossible.  Republicans are never at fault for anything, ever.

They are Pope-like in their infallibility, what with being god's own party and all.  Only one side is bad, because they are in league with demons.  Why can't Americans understand this?


On the bright side, we've got some pretty smokin' hot demons.
 
2013-11-22 02:28:55 PM

Diogenes: Tigger: We need an actual nuclear option where we blow up Ted Cruz on a South Pacific island.

That's a terrible idea.  You think Ted's bad now?  Try Cruzilla!


OK that got a massive chuckle.
 
2013-11-22 02:32:43 PM
"For whatever reason, the Republicans decided to go nuclear first, with this utterly unnecessary violation of their own agreement and open decision to block the president from filling vacancies for his entire term, no matter how well qualified the nominees," Ornstein told TPM in an email. "It was a set of actions begging for a return nuclear response."

THIS!

When you make it so one side has nothing left to lose you kind of force their hand. If the Republicans would have been open to make some deal like they did in the past then I don't think it would of happened but the position of "Obama isn't allowed to make any more nominees for his entire term" pretty much forces your hand.
 
2013-11-22 02:33:55 PM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: bmongar: But since their voters have the attention span of a gold fish it doesn't matter.

In those voters' defense, they also have about the same life expectancy of a goldfish.


A properly cared for goldfish can live a surprisingly long time.
 
2013-11-22 02:42:28 PM
Frankly I'd be thrilled if McConnell took over and had the guts that Reid doesn't to abolish all but the speaking filibuster (which you can't really get rid of without limiting speakers which none of the blowhards in the Senate would abide).
 
2013-11-22 02:43:40 PM
Yup. They could have stopped a lot of nominees by keeping up the veneer that it was about the nominee and not about taking hostages, but they didn't. They would have had to let some through to do that, and they're too farking crazy for that. Now, Obama can nominate who he wants to what he wants and, unless he pisses off his own party, they'll sail through.
 
2013-11-22 02:45:47 PM

Corvus: "For whatever reason, the Republicans decided to go nuclear first, with this utterly unnecessary violation of their own agreement and open decision to block the president from filling vacancies for his entire term, no matter how well qualified the nominees," Ornstein told TPM in an email. "It was a set of actions begging for a return nuclear response."

THIS!

When you make it so one side has nothing left to lose you kind of force their hand. If the Republicans would have been open to make some deal like they did in the past then I don't think it would of happened but the position of "Obama isn't allowed to make any more nominees for his entire term" pretty much forces your hand.


To look at the metaphor/analogy of a "nuclear option" one should consider that a nuclear reaction is an uncontrolled chain reaction that spreads very fast.  That analogy is much more apt in describing the stupidity of the right since Obama was elected.  What Reid has done is best described as some type of nuclear containment to protect the democratic process.
 
2013-11-22 02:48:29 PM

Tigger: We need an actual nuclear option where we blow up Ted Cruz on a South Pacific island.


We signed a treaty that doesn't allow for nuclear testing like that anymore.

bmongar: HotWingConspiracy: skozlaw: Maybe if conservatives don't like conservatives being critical of conservatives, conservatives should consider no longer playing this extended game of grab-ass with the teabaggers and get back to doing the work for which they were elected like goddamn adults?

That's the thing that gets me, these tactics are so amateurish and keep blowing up in their face. They really have devolved in to a childlike mode where everything is a reaction or a threat. They've seemingly lost any ability to plan ahead and have taken to actions that have shorter and shorter political shelf lives.

But since their voters have the attention span of a gold fish it doesn't matter.


No need to insult gold fish.
 
2013-11-22 02:50:41 PM

Diogenes: Anyone know if they're still allowed to put solitary, anonymous holds on stuff?


Yes, of course. And pink slips, blue slips, poison pill amendments. All the good stuff.
 
2013-11-22 03:20:36 PM
Wasn't the GOP going to try to impeach Obama for not carrying out his duties of appointing judges? This seems like an option they had to take to avoid impeachment.
 
2013-11-22 03:21:48 PM

mrshowrules: That's racist of you to point out there racism.


Race pimp!
 
2013-11-22 03:25:57 PM

Pichu0102: Wasn't the GOP going to try to impeach Obama for not carrying out his duties of appointing judges? This seems like an option they had to take to avoid impeachment.


The Ol "why are you hitting yourself" gambit.  Very tricky to pull-off.
 
2013-11-22 03:37:41 PM
The filibuster is not in the constitution
 
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