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(Fox 10 Mobile)   "No one has the right to shoot someone else," complains the family of a guy who was shot while robbing a Dollar General, forcing an employee to his knees and holding a gun to his head   (fox10tv.com) divider line 288
    More: Ironic, Good Samaritan, Family Dollar, guns  
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7980 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Nov 2013 at 6:43 AM (20 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



288 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-11-22 01:01:47 AM
So a guy who escalated an armed robbery into a gun fight in a crowded store is a "Good Samaritan"?  Even if you want to argue he was in the right, that's still the dumbest comparison I've heard today.

This is another one of those 'Republican Jesus' moments again, right?
 
2013-11-22 01:15:21 AM

dookdookdook: So a guy who escalated an armed robbery into a gun fight in a crowded store is a "Good Samaritan"?  Even if you want to argue he was in the right, that's still the dumbest comparison I've heard today.

This is another one of those 'Republican Jesus' moments again, right?


yeah. From just this story it sounds like it was justifiable, but to call him a "Good Samaritan"(way more times than necessary) is taking things a bit far.
 
2013-11-22 02:08:55 AM
Actually EVERYBODY has the right to shoot, maim, injure, or otherwise incapacitate a violent felon. You can hit them, burn them, shoot them, stab them; anything that stops their ability to continue perpetuating violent the felony. In fact, it's often been considered a duty.
 
2013-11-22 02:09:31 AM

dookdookdook: So a guy who escalated an armed robbery into a gun fight


You'd call him a good samaritan if you were the clerk with a gun to his head.

log_jammin: dookdookdook: So a guy who escalated an armed robbery into a gun fight in a crowded store is a "Good Samaritan"?  Even if you want to argue he was in the right, that's still the dumbest comparison I've heard today.

This is another one of those 'Republican Jesus' moments again, right?

yeah. From just this story it sounds like it was justifiable, but to call him a "Good Samaritan"(way more times than necessary) is taking things a bit far.


I think that's just what they decided to name him for the sake of the article since they weren't going to release his real name. And it was used way too often over the always useful pronoun.
 
2013-11-22 02:15:40 AM
And to be honest derpderpderp, the "Good Samaritan" escalated nothing, he deescalated an armed robbery. If a cop intervened by shooting the armed robber, you wouldn't say the cop escalated the situation, you'd say he quenched it.
 
2013-11-22 02:28:36 AM
I don't know what is more head explode-y about this story.

Bad grammar from the family.
The 'head in the sand' attitude of the family.
The many bad decisions from the victim.
The atrocious names.
The absurdity of the family in general.
 
2013-11-22 02:30:00 AM

violentsalvation: And to be honest derpderpderp, the "Good Samaritan" escalated nothing, he deescalated an armed robbery. If a cop intervened by shooting the armed robber, you wouldn't say the cop escalated the situation, you'd say he quenched it.


Those two would pupu a cure for AIDS if subby supported it.
 
2013-11-22 02:49:00 AM

violentsalvation: I think that's just what they decided to name him for the sake of the article since they weren't going to release his real name. And it was used way too often over the always useful pronoun.


"The shooter" works for me.
 
2013-11-22 02:50:34 AM
See what I mean?
 
2013-11-22 02:57:16 AM

doglover: See what I mean?


what are you talking about?
 
2013-11-22 03:05:14 AM

dookdookdook: So a guy who escalated an armed robbery into a gun fight in a crowded store is a "Good Samaritan"?  Even if you want to argue he was in the right, that's still the dumbest comparison I've heard today.

This is another one of those 'Republican Jesus' moments again, right?


This is how you troll.

"White was transported to USA Medical Center, where he remains in police custody."

This is upsetting, the shooter should have practiced more.  I don't know how this story could make me angrier, what with that trash as fark family defen....

"Court records show that White was out on bond for robbing The Original Oyster House at gunpoint a little more than a month before the Family Dollar robbery."

goddammitsomuch
 
2013-11-22 03:06:27 AM
\

doglover: violentsalvation: And to be honest derpderpderp, the "Good Samaritan" escalated nothing, he deescalated an armed robbery. If a cop intervened by shooting the armed robber, you wouldn't say the cop escalated the situation, you'd say he quenched it.

Those two would pupu a cure for AIDS if subby supported it.


log_jammin is a fair-minded guy.
 
2013-11-22 03:08:29 AM

violentsalvation: \doglover: violentsalvation: And to be honest derpderpderp, the "Good Samaritan" escalated nothing, he deescalated an armed robbery. If a cop intervened by shooting the armed robber, you wouldn't say the cop escalated the situation, you'd say he quenched it.

Those two would pupu a cure for AIDS if subby supported it.

log_jammin is a fair-minded guy.


I used to think so, too.
 
2013-11-22 03:10:13 AM

doglover: violentsalvation: \doglover: violentsalvation: And to be honest derpderpderp, the "Good Samaritan" escalated nothing, he deescalated an armed robbery. If a cop intervened by shooting the armed robber, you wouldn't say the cop escalated the situation, you'd say he quenched it.

Those two would pupu a cure for AIDS if subby supported it.

log_jammin is a fair-minded guy.

I used to think so, too.


again...what are you talking about?
 
2013-11-22 03:17:52 AM
well apparently it's passive aggressive night here on Fark.com

maybe tomorrow is ladies night.
 
2013-11-22 03:20:40 AM
Families are sometimes not particularly rational when one of their own is somehow involved in something.

Regardless, suck it, robber dude.
 
2013-11-22 03:24:29 AM

log_jammin: doglover: violentsalvation: \doglover: violentsalvation: And to be honest derpderpderp, the "Good Samaritan" escalated nothing, he deescalated an armed robbery. If a cop intervened by shooting the armed robber, you wouldn't say the cop escalated the situation, you'd say he quenched it.

Those two would pupu a cure for AIDS if subby supported it.

log_jammin is a fair-minded guy.

I used to think so, too.

again...what are you talking about?


It's because you want to use neutral terms like "shooter, instead of ridiculous ones like "good Samaritan".  Basically if you're not down on all fours blowing this "good Samaritan", then dog lover thinks you're in love with the perpetrator.
 
2013-11-22 03:24:37 AM

violentsalvation: And to be honest derpderpderp,


Oh boy, I can tell this post is going to be worth my time.

the "Good Samaritan" escalated nothing, he deescalated an armed robbery.

If he hadn't pulled his gun, 99 times out of 100 no one would've gotten shot at all.  If it had happened that the robber had managed to shoot him instead, how many more people would he have shot in his panic to flee the scene?

If a cop intervened by shooting the armed robber, you wouldn't say the cop escalated the situation, you'd say he quenched it.

Cops are trained professionals.  Link me to something that says the "good samaritan" underwent hostage negotiation training and did everything possible to resolve the situation non-violently and I'll change my tune 100%.

As it stands, he made the situation worse, though certainly far from as bad as it could have been.  If you just let the robber take the cash and go, the store's insurance company is out a few thousand bucks and everyone goes home without any extra holes in them.
 
2013-11-22 03:31:14 AM

Candy Colored Clown: It's because you want to use neutral terms like "shooter, instead of ridiculous ones like "good Samaritan".  Basically if you're not down on all fours blowing this "good Samaritan", then dog lover thinks you're in love with the perpetrator.


the funny thing is, I even said I felt it was a justified shooting, based on what we know.
 
2013-11-22 03:36:05 AM

dookdookdook: Cops are trained professionals.  Link me to something that says the "good samaritan" underwent hostage negotiation training and did everything possible to resolve the situation non-violently and I'll change my tune 100%.


what makes me think he was justified in shooting is his claim that  "He had the gun to his head. He had him on his knees," said the manGood Samaritan.

I think the average person would see that and reasonably think "he's going to execute that person".
 
2013-11-22 03:50:55 AM

log_jammin: I think the average person would see that and reasonably think "he's going to execute that person".


Well I can only go by the limited info in the article, but it sounded to me like he was using the hostage to make his way out of the store after robbing it.

In general though, even if every single firearm homicide in the US was an armed robbery gone wrong, there'd only be a 6% chance of any particular robbery turning into murder.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/tables/robbery-table-3
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/robbery
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

8583/(.413 * 354396) = .058
 
2013-11-22 03:52:50 AM

dookdookdook: violentsalvation: And to be honest derpderpderp,

Oh boy, I can tell this post is going to be worth my time.

the "Good Samaritan" escalated nothing, he deescalated an armed robbery.

If he hadn't pulled his gun, 99 times out of 100 no one would've gotten shot at all.  If it had happened that the robber had managed to shoot him instead, how many more people would he have shot in his panic to flee the scene?

If a cop intervened by shooting the armed robber, you wouldn't say the cop escalated the situation, you'd say he quenched it.

Cops are trained professionals.  Link me to something that says the "good samaritan" underwent hostage negotiation training and did everything possible to resolve the situation non-violently and I'll change my tune 100%.

As it stands, he made the situation worse, though certainly far from as bad as it could have been.  If you just let the robber take the cash and go, the store's insurance company is out a few thousand bucks and everyone goes home without any extra holes in them.


Link me to where a cop was nearly on scene, ready to enter into hostage negotiations Not that this was a hostage situation or whatever the hell else you were expecting the robbery to amount to. There was a gun to a man's head. But yeah that awesome police marksmanship, like those 9 bystanders injured by trigger happy cops in NYC, surely we can only trust the pros. Cops weren't there, and only they have the appropriate training! No, he did not make the situation worse, at best, nobody of any value was physically harmed. You want a story to frame your whatever narrative, but this isn't it.
 
2013-11-22 03:56:45 AM

dookdookdook: In general though, even if every single firearm homicide in the US was an armed robbery gone wrong, there'd only be a 6% chance of any particular robbery turning into murder.


Wait, found a better table:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11

553 gun murders occuring during robberies, 553/(.413*354396)= .004 = .4%
 
2013-11-22 03:57:21 AM

dookdookdook: but it sounded to me like he was using the hostage to make his way out of the store after robbing it.


apparently it looked to the shooterGood Samaritan to be something very different.

dookdookdook: In general though, even if every single firearm homicide in the US was an armed robbery gone wrong, there'd only be a 6% chance of any particular robbery turning into murder.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/tables/robbery-table-3
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/robbery
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

8583/(.413 * 354396) = .058


all that may very well be true but it's irrelevant to this case. all that matters is what happened here, and why. not what statistically happens in cases similar to this.
 
2013-11-22 04:01:05 AM

dookdookdook: there'd only be a 6% chance of any particular robbery turning into murder.


also, why limit it to robberies that result in murder? what about injury?

that would be more relevant since no one was killed in this case.
 
2013-11-22 04:02:27 AM

violentsalvation: Link me to where a cop was nearly on scene, ready to enter into hostage negotiations Not that this was a hostage situation or whatever the hell else you were expecting the robbery to amount to. There was a gun to a man's head. But yeah that awesome police marksmanship, like those 9 bystanders injured by trigger happy cops in NYC, surely we can only trust the pros. Cops weren't there, and only they have the appropriate training! No, he did not make the situation worse, at best, nobody of any value was physically harmed. You want a story to frame your whatever narrative, but this isn't it.


So "letting the guy go and letting the police hopefully track him down later" is just a complete non-option for you?  It's worth starting a gunfight in order to save Allstate a few grand?

Pointing a gun at someone doesn't equal imminent murder.  IF that's what was going on, then yeah, the guy was totally in the right, but IMO you can't make that conclusion from the article.
 
2013-11-22 04:03:13 AM

dookdookdook: dookdookdook: In general though, even if every single firearm homicide in the US was an armed robbery gone wrong, there'd only be a 6% chance of any particular robbery turning into murder.

Wait, found a better table:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11

553 gun murders occuring during robberies, 553/(.413*354396)= .004 = .4%


Do you think the man who shot him knew this?  He hasn't a clue if this man is a run-of-the-mill robber or some vicious homicidal bastard. I would much prefer less gun deaths, but I can't really blame the man who shoots someone holding a gun  to someones head and acting aggressively.
 
2013-11-22 04:06:42 AM

dookdookdook: Pointing a gun at someone doesn't equal imminent murder.


you're quickly losing credibility.
 
2013-11-22 04:15:47 AM

log_jammin: apparently it looked to the shooterGood Samaritan to be something very different.


You'll excuse me if I don't trust the judgement of random dollar store customers on such things.

all that may very well be true but it's irrelevant to this case. all that matters is what happened here, and why. not what statistically happens in cases similar to this.

If there's security footage somewhere, I'd be interested to look at it and willing to change my mind, but just based on the article I don't see any reason to think this armed robbery was so much different than any other.

also, why limit it to robberies that result in murder? what about injury?

Hmm, there doesn't seem to be a table for that.

Anyway, the stats are for murders committed by the robber, not bystanders, and a gun fired into someone's head would pretty likely be fatal.
 
2013-11-22 04:18:28 AM

log_jammin: dookdookdook: Pointing a gun at someone doesn't equal imminent murder.

you're quickly losing credibility.


Like I said, 146,000 robbers with guns, most of whom presumably pointed them at someone at some point, and only 550 murders.
 
2013-11-22 04:28:25 AM

dookdookdook: If there's security footage somewhere, I'd be interested to look at it and willing to change my mind, but just based on the article I don't see any reason to think this armed robbery was so much different than any other.


we have the shooters word, the robbers, and the witnesses/hostages/victims. based on this we have "Police maintain that the Good Samaritan who opened fire was justified and broke no laws."

seems pretty cut and dried to me.

dookdookdook: Like I said, 146,000 robbers with guns, most of whom presumably pointed them at someone at some point, and only 550 murders.


1. not all cases of guns being pointed at someone are during attempted robberies.
2. you still fail to account for injuries.
3. there isnt a court in the country, not even in the most liberal of the bluest states, that would by your line of "Pointing a gun at someone doesn't equal imminent murder.". anyone seeing someone with a gun pointed at a person would reasonably believe that a murder is a very real possibility and is imminent.
 
2013-11-22 04:40:47 AM

log_jammin: we have the shooters word, the robbers, and the witnesses/hostages/victims. based on this we have "Police maintain that the Good Samaritan who opened fire was justified and broke no laws."


I never said it was illegal - or even that it *should* be illegal - just that it was a bad idea that almost certainly made the situation turn out worse than it otherwise would've, and could've very easily made it extremely worse.

1. not all cases of guns being pointed at someone are during attempted robberies.

Right, if it were outside the context of a robbery, the likelihood of an actual shooting taking place would be far higher.  I should've been more specific in what I posted before, I guess.

2. you still fail to account for injuries.

Well I can't find stats for that, but otoh I'd argue pulling your gun to prevent an injury is even less of a good idea than doing it to prevent a murder.
 
2013-11-22 04:54:39 AM

dookdookdook: I never said it was illegal - or even that it *should* be illegal - just that it was a bad idea that almost certainly made the situation turn out worse than it otherwise would've, and could've very easily made it extremely worse.


even if you're 100% right, that conclusion is based on on 20/20 hindsight from the safe glowing warmth of you computer monitor.

dookdookdook: but otoh I'd argue pulling your gun to prevent an injury is even less of a good idea than doing it to prevent a murder.


I'm not saying people in robberies shoot to cause injury. I'm saying people who get shot many times live. There may have only been 550 deaths from your list, but that doesn't mean145,450 went unscathed. it means many of those had the audacity to not die from their injuries, and that means they aren't added to your statistic.
 
2013-11-22 06:51:00 AM

dookdookdook: log_jammin: I think the average person would see that and reasonably think "he's going to execute that person".

Well I can only go by the limited info in the article, but it sounded to me like he was using the hostage to make his way out of the store after robbing it.

In general though, even if every single firearm homicide in the US was an armed robbery gone wrong, there'd only be a 6% chance of any particular robbery turning into murder.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/tables/robbery-table-3
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/robbery
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in- th e-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

8583/(.413 * 354396) = .058


Well, that's some bad math.
 
2013-11-22 06:51:13 AM
Actually dumb ass, it's the opposite of what you said.

Everybody has the right to shoot somebody.

In the right circumstances.
 
2013-11-22 06:52:45 AM

Clint_Torres: I don't know what is more head explode-y about this story.

Bad grammar from the family.
The 'head in the sand' attitude of the family.
The many bad decisions from the victim.
The atrocious names.
The absurdity of the family in general.


Because....Alabama
 
2013-11-22 06:55:10 AM

dookdookdook: Pointing a gun at someone doesn't equal imminent murder.


You've certainly chosen a peculiar ground to defend.

Was the escalation necessarily to save the employees' lives?  Your statistics suggest probably not.  But I'd be willing to bet the employees weren't running those statistics through their minds thinking "despite this lunatic sticking a gun in my face, it's unlikely that he will actually shoot me, so relax".

The real shame of this is that the robber survived to get medical treatment on the taxpayer dime, and will likely be back out on the streets to rob again in a few years.
 
2013-11-22 06:57:09 AM
If we call it a late-term abortion, rather than a shooting of an armed felon, does that make it more palatable to Liberals?
 
2013-11-22 06:58:48 AM

Relatively Obscure: Families are sometimes not particularly rational when one of their own is somehow involved in something.

Regardless, suck it, robber dude.


When you son gets shot while holding a gun to the head of committing armed robery, the only thing you can do is pray.  There is no point in blaming others or thinking of past parenting mistakes that might have led the son on path to holding the gun to the clerk's head.
 
2013-11-22 06:59:15 AM
Looks like karma finally caught up to this idiot. Shame that this dumbass's dumbass family might sue the shooter. I don't think they have a case though.
 
2013-11-22 06:59:49 AM
FTA-  "If his (the customer) life was not in danger, if no one had a gun up to him, if no one pointed a gun at him - what gives him the right to think that it's okay to just shoot someone?" said the relative. "You should have just left the store and went wherever you had to go in your car or whatever."

Can somebody shoot this moron while we're at it.  He's using air for no good reason.
 
2013-11-22 07:00:34 AM
Man, I'm as pro-gun control as almost anybody on fark but this is one of those rare situations where I say "man I'm happy that guy had a gun".

Sure, it could have turned out much much worse and on balance it very well might have been more prudent not to intervene but the outcome here is very satisfying.

/also stronger gun control might have prevented the asshole robber from getting his gun
 
2013-11-22 07:01:10 AM
"You should have just left the store and went wherever you had to go in your car or whatever."Maybe grab a latte, take in a movie, do your laundry, read a good book.

dookdookdook: Like I said, 146,000 robbers with guns, most of whom presumably pointed them at someone at some point, and only 550 murders.


So I see 551 wouldn't be a big deal. Good for you.
 
2013-11-22 07:01:17 AM
Wah! A private citizen with a gun!

Wah! Who used it to stop a felony!

Wah! Which put the perp' in the hospital!

Wah! They called the bad guy a Good Samaritan!

Wah! I want a pony!

Do you people ever listen to yourselves?

The habitual offender CHOSE to commit a crime. Don't want to drastically increase your chances of being shot, injured, or killed? Then DON'T make such choices.

Otherwise, you get what comes to you.
 
2013-11-22 07:01:51 AM
violentsalvation:

If a cop intervened by shooting the armed robber, you wouldn't say the cop escalated the situation

img.photobucket.com
 
2013-11-22 07:03:24 AM
dookdookdook: driveldriveldrivel

You're one of those guys who would stand around watching a woman be raped while on your cell phone to 911, aren't you?
 
2013-11-22 07:03:56 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: stronger gun control might have prevented the asshole robber from getting his gun


More likely to have prevented the Good Samaritan from getting his since he seems to give a sh*t about the law.
 
2013-11-22 07:05:42 AM

dookdookdook: So a guy who escalated an armed robbery into a gun fight in a crowded store is a "Good Samaritan"?  Even if you want to argue he was in the right, that's still the dumbest comparison I've heard today.

This is another one of those 'Republican Jesus' moments again, right?


You're a bad troll, a very bad troll...
 
2013-11-22 07:05:46 AM

GDubDub: dookdookdook: driveldriveldrivel

You're one of those guys who would stand around watching a woman be raped while on your cell phone to 911, aren't you?


He's pretty clearly trolling. No one is even possibly as stupid as he's pretending to be here.
 
2013-11-22 07:06:34 AM

doglover: Actually EVERYBODY has the right to shoot, maim, injure, or otherwise incapacitate a violent felon. You can hit them, burn them, shoot them, stab them; anything that stops their ability to continue perpetuating violent the felony.


I've never understood that. We have a screwed-up view of violence in this country. Do all the things you mention, and you're a good, upstanding member of society, exercising their civic morals.

But if you decide that, instead of ending the felon's life, you're just going to rape them instead... people start looking at you like you're the bad guy.
 
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