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(Fox Business)   Dow closes above 16,000 for the first time ever. I'm telling ya, Obama is just RUINING the business climate in this country   (foxbusiness.com) divider line 152
    More: Spiffy, troy ounces, IXIC, Janet Yellen, Dow Jones Industrial Average, Bernanke, NASDAQ Composite  
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354 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 Nov 2013 at 9:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-21 08:04:30 PM  
Oh great!  Climate change!
 
2013-11-21 08:11:02 PM  
It's in anticipation of the inevitable 2016 election of the Reverend Doctor Allen West, M.D., Colonel-at-Law.
 
2013-11-21 08:13:15 PM  
don't forget, it's a bubble, so keep your money in that savings account "earning" 0.5% interest.
 
2013-11-21 08:15:28 PM  

Nogrhi: Oh great!  Climate change!


+1
 
2013-11-21 08:16:35 PM  
How's that musliny-socialisty thing working out?
 
2013-11-21 08:18:32 PM  
But my money is worth less.

Look at the price of a commodity, say a gallon of gas. We need more dollars to buy that now.
Look at 1 share of IBM stock, on inaguartion day 2009 it was $81.98 now it is 184.13. Sure IBM has done well but that is a reflection of the dollar's worth more than IBMs worth.
Look at a the price of corn - it was $ 362.88 on innaguration day, today it is 422.88. That doesn't show that corn is worth more, it shows that the dollar is worth less. A bushel of corn has a certain value, it will always hold that intrinsic value. Our dollar's value changes and now it is lower than ever.

That basket of stocks isn't worth more just because it takes more dollars to buy it if we have to pay more for gas and corn and everything else we buy.
 
2013-11-21 08:29:30 PM  
And for those of us that have lost our jobs or had our hours cut due to Obamacare, this means what? For those of us that have run out of unemployment and still can't find a job, this means what?

When you subsidize Wall Street, the Dow will rise. Too bad most of us still can't afford clunkers to drive to the unemployment office.
 
2013-11-21 08:31:24 PM  

feckingmorons: But my money is worth less.

Look at the price of a commodity, say a gallon of gas. We need more dollars to buy that now.
Look at 1 share of IBM stock, on inaguartion day 2009 it was $81.98 now it is 184.13. Sure IBM has done well but that is a reflection of the dollar's worth more than IBMs worth.
Look at a the price of corn - it was $ 362.88 on innaguration day, today it is 422.88. That doesn't show that corn is worth more, it shows that the dollar is worth less. A bushel of corn has a certain value, it will always hold that intrinsic value. Our dollar's value changes and now it is lower than ever.

That basket of stocks isn't worth more just because it takes more dollars to buy it if we have to pay more for gas and corn and everything else we buy.


Nice try, but I'm not buying any heirloom seeds or crisis cookers from you, dude.
 
2013-11-21 08:32:24 PM  

SauronWasFramed: And for those of us that have lost our jobs or had our hours cut due to Obamacare, this means what? For those of us that have run out of unemployment and still can't find a job, this means what?

When you subsidize Wall Street, the Dow will rise. Too bad most of us still can't afford clunkers to drive to the unemployment office.


An actual human cannot possibly be this stupid.
 
2013-11-21 08:33:15 PM  

Cewley: don't forget, it's a bubble, so keep your money in that savings account "earning" 0.5% interest.


All of mine is in collectable plates from the Franklin Mint.
 
2013-11-21 08:42:35 PM  

feckingmorons: But my money is worth less.


Hardly. Instead of cherry picking some items and some dates, why not compare all items all good?
 
2013-11-21 08:43:56 PM  

SauronWasFramed: And for those of us that have lost our jobs or had our hours cut due to Obamacare, this means what?


It means you're a liar. Unemployment is going down.
 
2013-11-21 08:44:59 PM  
UNCERTAINTY! UNCERTAINTY! UNCERTAINTY!
 
2013-11-21 09:02:49 PM  

impaler: SauronWasFramed: And for those of us that have lost our jobs or had our hours cut due to Obamacare, this means what?

It means you're a liar. Unemployment is going down.




Oh really?


Link
 
2013-11-21 09:03:05 PM  

impaler: SauronWasFramed: And for those of us that have lost our jobs or had our hours cut due to Obamacare, this means what?

It means you're a liar. Unemployment is going down.


Or mad because republicans refused to extend unemployment benefits and just shiat on SNAP. But hey, misdirected anger is still valid or something.
 
2013-11-21 09:21:39 PM  

feckingmorons: But my money is worth less.

Look at the price of a commodity, say a gallon of gas. We need more dollars to buy that now.
Look at 1 share of IBM stock, on inaguartion day 2009 it was $81.98 now it is 184.13. Sure IBM has done well but that is a reflection of the dollar's worth more than IBMs worth.
Look at a the price of corn - it was $ 362.88 on innaguration day, today it is 422.88. That doesn't show that corn is worth more, it shows that the dollar is worth less. A bushel of corn has a certain value, it will always hold that intrinsic value. Our dollar's value changes and now it is lower than ever.

That basket of stocks isn't worth more just because it takes more dollars to buy it if we have to pay more for gas and corn and everything else we buy.


Stop buying your corn at whole foods and maybe you can afford it.
 
2013-11-21 09:29:19 PM  

impaler: feckingmorons: But my money is worth less.

Hardly. Instead of cherry picking some items and some dates, why not compare all items all good?



The price of rock phosphate has fallen by more than half. And steel rod is down by a third. But in general he's right- commodity prices are higher than they were on inauguration day.
However, measuring commodity prices from inauguration day is a fool's game. Many (I'm tempted to say most, I'm pretty sure it's true, but there are a lot of commodities) commodity prices peaked in the spring 08 time frame, and then tanked when it became clear we were in danger of a serious depression. They bottomed out in early 09, when it became clear maybe we were going to dodge that bullet. They rose again, this time peaking in spring 11, and have been somewhat lower since then. And they are often lower than their spring 08 peaks. So sure, he can measure from the trough and then complain that things are better. It doesn't make sense, but when his side lost the great economic showdown, it's about all he can do.
 
2013-11-21 10:01:08 PM  
feckingmorons: A bushel of corn has a certain value, it will always hold that intrinsic value.

Does it bollocks. The value of a bushel of corn depends on the demand, the supply, and the substitutes. This is about the most basic, fundamental axiom of economics.

And that's without even getting started on how much or how little the actual corn flakes you buy at retail depend on the commodity price of corn.

But hey, congratulations on living up to your user name. I bet you're still confused about what happened at the end of Trading Places.

/Except for the gorilla. The gorilla probably made perfect sense to you.
 
2013-11-21 10:06:18 PM  

propasaurus: SauronWasFramed: And for those of us that have lost our jobs or had our hours cut due to Obamacare, this means what? For those of us that have run out of unemployment and still can't find a job, this means what?

When you subsidize Wall Street, the Dow will rise. Too bad most of us still can't afford clunkers to drive to the unemployment office.

An actual human cannot possibly be this stupid.


He is a working class republican, the people that consistently vote for people that are doing everything possible to keep the working class broke. So yeah, an actual human can be that stupid.
 
2013-11-21 10:06:44 PM  

sigdiamond2000: feckingmorons: But my money is worth less.

Look at the price of a commodity, say a gallon of gas. We need more dollars to buy that now.
Look at 1 share of IBM stock, on inaguartion day 2009 it was $81.98 now it is 184.13. Sure IBM has done well but that is a reflection of the dollar's worth more than IBMs worth.
Look at a the price of corn - it was $ 362.88 on innaguration day, today it is 422.88. That doesn't show that corn is worth more, it shows that the dollar is worth less. A bushel of corn has a certain value, it will always hold that intrinsic value. Our dollar's value changes and now it is lower than ever.

That basket of stocks isn't worth more just because it takes more dollars to buy it if we have to pay more for gas and corn and everything else we buy.

Nice try, but I'm not buying any heirloom seeds or crisis cookers from you, dude.


Totally read that as "crisis hookers". Made a lot more sense that way, in retrospect.
 
2013-11-21 10:11:50 PM  

sigdiamond2000: feckingmorons: But my money is worth less.

Look at the price of a commodity, say a gallon of gas. We need more dollars to buy that now.
Look at 1 share of IBM stock, on inaguartion day 2009 it was $81.98 now it is 184.13. Sure IBM has done well but that is a reflection of the dollar's worth more than IBMs worth.
Look at a the price of corn - it was $ 362.88 on innaguration day, today it is 422.88. That doesn't show that corn is worth more, it shows that the dollar is worth less. A bushel of corn has a certain value, it will always hold that intrinsic value. Our dollar's value changes and now it is lower than ever.

That basket of stocks isn't worth more just because it takes more dollars to buy it if we have to pay more for gas and corn and everything else we buy.

Nice try, but I'm not buying any heirloom seeds or crisis cookers from you, dude.


Heh. I was going to guess gold coins...
 
2013-11-21 10:13:28 PM  

feckingmorons: But my money is worth less.

Look at the price of a commodity, say a gallon of gas. We need more dollars to buy that now.
Look at 1 share of IBM stock, on inaguartion day 2009 it was $81.98 now it is 184.13. Sure IBM has done well but that is a reflection of the dollar's worth more than IBMs worth.
Look at a the price of corn - it was $ 362.88 on innaguration day, today it is 422.88. That doesn't show that corn is worth more, it shows that the dollar is worth less. A bushel of corn has a certain value, it will always hold that intrinsic value. Our dollar's value changes and now it is lower than ever.

That basket of stocks isn't worth more just because it takes more dollars to buy it if we have to pay more for gas and corn and everything else we buy.


That's the problem with the QE's... inflation. But our currency is still trading on a fairly even level on the FOREX.

The inflation in the money supply is a scary prospect, lucky the banks are holding and not releasing it in to the system quickly.
 
2013-11-21 10:17:49 PM  

feckingmorons: But my money is worth less.

Look at the price of a commodity, say a gallon of gas. We need more dollars to buy that now.
Look at 1 share of IBM stock, on inaguartion day 2009 it was $81.98 now it is 184.13. Sure IBM has done well but that is a reflection of the dollar's worth more than IBMs worth.
Look at a the price of corn - it was $ 362.88 on innaguration day, today it is 422.88. That doesn't show that corn is worth more, it shows that the dollar is worth less. A bushel of corn has a certain value, it will always hold that intrinsic value. Our dollar's value changes and now it is lower than ever.

That basket of stocks isn't worth more just because it takes more dollars to buy it if we have to pay more for gas and corn and everything else we buy.


I think I'm going to have to give you a 10/10 for that one

/nicely done
 
2013-11-21 10:21:09 PM  
Pump baby pump! $85 Billion a month, of course the stock market is up.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/19/news/economy/federal-reserve-stimulu s/
 
2013-11-21 10:21:34 PM  

czetie: I bet you're still confused about what happened at the end of Trading Places.


I'm not confused about Jamie Lee Cutis' boobs in that movie. I don't know what the fark else you guys are talking about but I remember Jamie Lee Curtis' boobs.

NSFW
 
2013-11-21 10:41:23 PM  
Can we just finally farking admit trickledown doesn't farking work.
 
2013-11-21 10:49:58 PM  

spaten: feckingmorons: But my money is worth less.

Look at the price of a commodity, say a gallon of gas. We need more dollars to buy that now.
Look at 1 share of IBM stock, on inaguartion day 2009 it was $81.98 now it is 184.13. Sure IBM has done well but that is a reflection of the dollar's worth more than IBMs worth.
Look at a the price of corn - it was $ 362.88 on innaguration day, today it is 422.88. That doesn't show that corn is worth more, it shows that the dollar is worth less. A bushel of corn has a certain value, it will always hold that intrinsic value. Our dollar's value changes and now it is lower than ever.

That basket of stocks isn't worth more just because it takes more dollars to buy it if we have to pay more for gas and corn and everything else we buy.

That's the problem with the QE's... inflation. But our currency is still trading on a fairly even level on the FOREX.

The inflation in the money supply is a scary prospect, lucky the banks are holding and not releasing it in to the system quickly.


Deflationary is a whole lot scarier. The reason inflation hasn't gone nuts with all that increased money supply is because trillions of dollars of paper wealth evaporated overnight when the housing bubble burst, threatening a deflationary spiral that could have turned into a deep recession. The money added to the money supply was basically like a blood transfusion to keep someone from dying after they have bled out.
 
2013-11-21 10:50:48 PM  
Deflation is a whole lot scarier, I mean. Edit fail.
 
2013-11-21 10:59:32 PM  
I'd be jumping around partying, but the stock market is nothing more than a black box to me, and looks a LOT like a slot machine.
 
2013-11-21 11:04:42 PM  

ajgeek: I'd be jumping around partying, but the stock market is nothing more than a black box to me, and looks a LOT like a slot machine.


Except slot machines are more regulated, and there's less skimming in Vegas
 
2013-11-21 11:07:57 PM  

Mad_Radhu: spaten: feckingmorons: But my money is worth less.

Look at the price of a commodity, say a gallon of gas. We need more dollars to buy that now.
Look at 1 share of IBM stock, on inaguartion day 2009 it was $81.98 now it is 184.13. Sure IBM has done well but that is a reflection of the dollar's worth more than IBMs worth.
Look at a the price of corn - it was $ 362.88 on innaguration day, today it is 422.88. That doesn't show that corn is worth more, it shows that the dollar is worth less. A bushel of corn has a certain value, it will always hold that intrinsic value. Our dollar's value changes and now it is lower than ever.

That basket of stocks isn't worth more just because it takes more dollars to buy it if we have to pay more for gas and corn and everything else we buy.

That's the problem with the QE's... inflation. But our currency is still trading on a fairly even level on the FOREX.

The inflation in the money supply is a scary prospect, lucky the banks are holding and not releasing it in to the system quickly.

Deflationary is a whole lot scarier. The reason inflation hasn't gone nuts with all that increased money supply is because trillions of dollars of paper wealth evaporated overnight when the housing bubble burst, threatening a deflationary spiral that could have turned into a deep recession. The money added to the money supply was basically like a blood transfusion to keep someone from dying after they have bled out.


Rhetorical, but how long can it last? A system can't survive just pumping money indefinitely.

Diversifying into 1/3 stock, 1/3 cash and hard assests, and a 1/3 international.
 
2013-11-21 11:21:48 PM  
Why is mild deflation scary? Our currency would be stronger, the buying power of the average individual would increase, commodities would be more affordable, i.e. groceries and gas.

A bit of a deflationary period could do a lot for discretionary spending.
 
2013-11-21 11:22:08 PM  

impaler: feckingmorons: But my money is worth less.

Hardly. Instead of cherry picking some items and some dates, why not compare all items all good?


How about the Cost of Living Index (well since they are several years behind since Census was put under WH control that is not too helpful)

You could look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics CPI which rose from inauguration day (Jan 2009)'s 211.143 to October's (latest data)'s 233.546.

For a simple and straightforward view look at the value of a dollar at infoplease.

No matter what commodity or basket of things you want to talk about we can't get as much now - and substantially less- than we could before this administration.
 
2013-11-21 11:41:26 PM  
Oh sure, the Dow Jones may be high, but the STATE owns all the MEANS OF PRODUCTION.
 
2013-11-21 11:43:21 PM  

feckingmorons: But my money is worth less.

Look at the price of a commodity, say a gallon of gas. We need more dollars to buy that now.
Look at 1 share of IBM stock, on inaguartion day 2009 it was $81.98 now it is 184.13. Sure IBM has done well but that is a reflection of the dollar's worth more than IBMs worth.
Look at a the price of corn - it was $ 362.88 on innaguration day, today it is 422.88. That doesn't show that corn is worth more, it shows that the dollar is worth less. A bushel of corn has a certain value, it will always hold that intrinsic value. Our dollar's value changes and now it is lower than ever.

That basket of stocks isn't worth more just because it takes more dollars to buy it if we have to pay more for gas and corn and everything else we buy.


No, I won't accept your farking bitcoins in return for goods and services.
 
2013-11-21 11:44:41 PM  

SauronWasFramed: And for those of us that have lost our jobs or had our hours cut due to Obamacare, this means what? For those of us that have run out of unemployment and still can't find a job, this means what?


If you've been unemployed long enough to run out of unemployment benefits, you didn't farking lose your jobe due to Obamacare.
 
2013-11-21 11:50:23 PM  

spaten: The inflation in the money supply is a scary prospect


The Fed has an almost unprecedented arsenal of inflation fighting measures at their disposal currently, should they need to use them (they don't, currently).  Inflation is not currently at all a scary prospect to anyone who is actually paying attention and not just going with things that seem like they should be true.
 
2013-11-21 11:58:16 PM  

feckingmorons: No matter what commodity or basket of things you want to talk about we can't get as much now - and substantially less- than we could before this administration.


On inauguration day a Kilogram of polysilicon cost $150. Today it costs $17.  Since, like corn and gasoline, polysilicon is a physical commodity with a True And Unchanging Value (tm), that must mean that a dollar is worth almost ten times today, huh?
 
2013-11-22 12:04:34 AM  

spaten: Why is mild deflation scary? Our currency would be stronger, the buying power of the average individual would increase, commodities would be more affordable, i.e. groceries and gas.

A bit of a deflationary period could do a lot for discretionary spending.


Most people have debt. Deflation increases debt.
 
2013-11-22 12:06:40 AM  
Worst Socialist Ever.
 
2013-11-22 12:06:58 AM  

feckingmorons: You could look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics CPI which rose from inauguration day (Jan 2009)'s 211.143 to October's (latest data)'s 233.546.


211 to 233 in 5 years?

That's 2% inflation per year moron.
 
2013-11-22 12:08:29 AM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Worst Socialist Ever.


Obama is such an empty suit, that he can't even get socialism right!
 
2013-11-22 12:09:03 AM  

ArmednHammered: Pump baby pump! $85 Billion a month, of course the stock market is up.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/19/news/economy/federal-reserve-stimulu s/


No it isn't liar. Inflation is 2%. So you can't attribute it to QE.

Explain how buying Treasury securities and mortgaged backed securities raises the DOW.

Idiots.
 
2013-11-22 12:10:29 AM  
It's funny how the Dow closing above 16,000 really pisses of Republicans.
 
2013-11-22 12:13:21 AM  

impaler: spaten: Why is mild deflation scary? Our currency would be stronger, the buying power of the average individual would increase, commodities would be more affordable, i.e. groceries and gas.

A bit of a deflationary period could do a lot for discretionary spending.

Most people have debt. Deflation increases debt.


Then avoid debt.

Deflation will help on the day to day expenses and one can save money and have more buying power.
 
2013-11-22 12:13:32 AM  

SauronWasFramed: And for those of us that have lost our jobs or had our hours cut due to Obamacare, this means what? For those of us that have run out of unemployment and still can't find a job, this means what?

When you subsidize Wall Street, the Dow will rise. Too bad most of us still can't afford clunkers to drive to the unemployment office.


Unfortunately, it means you are on the wrong side of structural changes that have been going on for several decades that will continue for the foreseeable future.  It sucks, it really does, but there isn't a whole lot Obama or anyone else can really do about it.

feckingmorons: impaler: feckingmorons: But my money is worth less.

Hardly. Instead of cherry picking some items and some dates, why not compare all items all good?

How about the Cost of Living Index (well since they are several years behind since Census was put under WH control that is not too helpful)

You could look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics CPI which rose from inauguration day (Jan 2009)'s 211.143 to October's (latest data)'s 233.546.

For a simple and straightforward view look at the value of a dollar at infoplease.

No matter what commodity or basket of things you want to talk about we can't get as much now - and substantially less- than we could before this administration.


Yes, inflation is a thing.  I'm glad you paid attention in Econ 101.  If you paid attention even more you might realize that the inflation rate over the last three years is lower than the historical average of about 3% and having no inflation would be a bad idea.
 
2013-11-22 12:16:21 AM  

impaler: ArmednHammered: Pump baby pump! $85 Billion a month, of course the stock market is up.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/19/news/economy/federal-reserve-stimulu s/

No it isn't liar. Inflation is 2%. So you can't attribute it to QE.

Explain how buying Treasury securities and mortgaged backed securities raises the DOW.

Idiots.


To be fair, just because the inflation rate is low doesn't mean it might not have been lower without QE.  I don't know if that's the case because people who have spent a lot more time than me studying these things aren't quite sure themselves.
 
2013-11-22 12:17:53 AM  

spaten: Then avoid debt.


"Never buy a house"

Great advice, asswipe.
 
2013-11-22 12:18:30 AM  
I know this is Fark and all, with its share of morans, but I don't know if I've ever seen someone on here as ignorant of a specific topic as Spaten and Macroeconomics.
 
2013-11-22 12:21:52 AM  

spaten: t


spaten: impaler: spaten: Why is mild deflation scary? Our currency would be stronger, the buying power of the average individual would increase, commodities would be more affordable, i.e. groceries and gas.

A bit of a deflationary period could do a lot for discretionary spending.

Most people have debt. Deflation increases debt.

Then avoid debt.

Deflation will help on the day to day expenses and one can save money and have more buying power.


I can't get over the fact that someone could possibly believe that something that discourages debt could possibly be stimulating to the economy.
 
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