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(ESPN)   Texas Rangers pay $138 million for a Fielder   (espn.go.com) divider line 99
    More: Spiffy, outfielders, Rangers, American League, Anibal Sanchez, Ian Kinsler, Elvis Andrus, Omar Infante, Max Scherzer  
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1177 clicks; posted to Sports » on 20 Nov 2013 at 11:41 PM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-20 11:56:54 PM
Just because I might not be around later to point this out when it's more apropos:

From Jason Collette on twitter:

In the 2 seasons before Fielder joined DET, Miggy saw strikes 58.1% of the time. Last 2 seasons, 60.9%. OPS: 1038 vs 1037
 
2013-11-20 11:57:01 PM
I think everybody assumed the Tigers would end up getting rid of that stupid contract while eating tens of millions just to trade him.

Not sure year 2 was expected.
 
2013-11-21 12:04:54 AM

DeWayne Mann: In the 2 seasons before Fielder joined DET, Miggy saw strikes 58.1% of the time. Last 2 seasons, 60.9%. OPS: 1038 vs 1037


Not as dramatic as I thought it would be.

This is probably a good deal for the Tigers.  Cabrera can go back to first (where he's a very good in the field) and they can either move Castellanos back to 3rd (if he's ready...and likely is) or find someone else to play 3rd.

The Tigers will be dealing a starter for bullpen help.  I doubt it will be Scherzer unless it's an incredible deal.  Porcello is more likely as he continues to improve (and he's only 25).  Porcello would be FAR more effective with a sound infield as he's a ground ball pitcher.

They aren't THAT far away from being a championship team and the windows is closing so they need to do something to address their weaknesses.
 
2013-11-21 12:05:26 AM

DeWayne Mann: Just because I might not be around later to point this out when it's more apropos:

From Jason Collette on twitter:

In the 2 seasons before Fielder joined DET, Miggy saw strikes 58.1% of the time. Last 2 seasons, 60.9%. OPS: 1038 vs 1037


Statistical analysis was never my strong point but isnt that pretty much a statistical wash?

I only see an upside for Detroit.
 
2013-11-21 12:06:51 AM
So Cabrera back to first and someone with mobility at third? I guess I should read more Detroit news in the off-season. I haven't paid much attention since the "wtf?" choice of a new manager.
 
2013-11-21 12:10:33 AM

violentsalvation: So Cabrera back to first and someone with mobility at third? I guess I should read more Detroit news in the off-season. I haven't paid much attention since the "wtf?" choice of a new manager.


Castellanos, the latest and greatest new thing, will likely move back to 3B. Cabrera had him blocked so they tried to make him an outfielder, but he supposedly wasn't the best out there.
 
2013-11-21 12:12:46 AM

slayer199: DeWayne Mann: In the 2 seasons before Fielder joined DET, Miggy saw strikes 58.1% of the time. Last 2 seasons, 60.9%. OPS: 1038 vs 1037

Not as dramatic as I thought it would be.

This is probably a good deal for the Tigers.  Cabrera can go back to first (where he's a very good in the field) and they can either move Castellanos back to 3rd (if he's ready...and likely is) or find someone else to play 3rd.

The Tigers will be dealing a starter for bullpen help.  I doubt it will be Scherzer unless it's an incredible deal.  Porcello is more likely as he continues to improve (and he's only 25).  Porcello would be FAR more effective with a sound infield as he's a ground ball pitcher.

They aren't THAT far away from being a championship team and the windows is closing so they need to do something to address their weaknesses.


They're getting close to signing Nathan to close, according to reports. Maybe deal Porcello for middle relief and make Smyly a starter. Trading Fielder should free up a lot of cash to extend Scherzer and hopefully Cabrera too.
 
2013-11-21 12:13:00 AM

slayer199: Not as dramatic as I thought it would be.


Yep.

steamingpile: Statistical analysis was never my strong point but isnt that pretty much a statistical wash?


Yep.
 
2013-11-21 12:14:46 AM
Detroit got the better end of this, in my opinion. Got the best two years out of Cabrera, get to move Miggy back to first where he won't be turrible defensively, and get a good second baseman.
 
2013-11-21 12:19:01 AM
I guess I don't get to make my "bag of donuts/Big Macs" jokes about Fielder's "running" anymore
 
2013-11-21 12:19:42 AM
So much for Kinsler-to-the-Dodgers for Ethier or Kemp.
 
2013-11-21 12:22:09 AM

ChrisDe: violentsalvation: So Cabrera back to first and someone with mobility at third? I guess I should read more Detroit news in the off-season. I haven't paid much attention since the "wtf?" choice of a new manager.

Castellanos, the latest and greatest new thing, will likely move back to 3B. Cabrera had him blocked so they tried to make him an outfielder, but he supposedly wasn't the best out there.


Oh yeah, I've never looked at his stats but he sucked when they brought him up. Any other changes I've missed? Dirks, Infante, Kelly, Benoit? etc? I can't remember who all's contracts were set to run out. Peralta gone for good?
 
2013-11-21 12:23:38 AM
As a Ranger fan I don't like this trade.  If Prince hits 40 home runs, it was a brilliant move.  As it stands right now, it feels like posturing to placate a fanbase.
 
2013-11-21 12:24:55 AM
There is only ONE Texas Ranger, stupidmitter, and his name is WALKER:

wpcontent.answcdn.com

/and he is worth WAY more than $138 million
 
2013-11-21 12:33:12 AM
I guess they sold him for $1/lb.
 
2013-11-21 12:41:17 AM

dj_bigbird: I guess I don't get to make my "bag of donuts/Big Macs" jokes about Fielder's "running" anymore


Why not? Why would you ever stop?

As a Rangers fan, I am happy to see Prince on my team, but I am pretty bummed to see Kinsey go. He's been my favorite player since he came here (2006) and it'll be tough to let him go.
 
2013-11-21 01:21:07 AM

Hoban Washburne: As a Ranger fan I don't like this trade.  If Prince hits 40 home runs, it was a brilliant move.  As it stands right now, it feels like posturing to placate a fanbase.



huh? the majority of the fanbase loves Kinsler. Personally, I'm not sad to see him go, and I think 81 games of Fielder at the Ballpark will be fun to watch. Is it a risky move? Sure. Do I love it? No question.
 
2013-11-21 01:25:41 AM

Hoban Washburne: As a Ranger fan I don't like this trade.  If Prince hits 40 home runs, it was a brilliant move.  As it stands right now, it feels like posturing to placate a fanbase.


As a Rangers fan you should love this. Prince goes to a park which lets lefties mash. He replaces a replacement level player in Moreland. Profar now gets regular playing time so he can actually get into a groove in the majors and the team took a step in direction to solve the power issue that plagued them last season.

They did all of this for an extra 4 mil a year AAV. This is much better than overpaying for a free agent and sets them up to still be able to grab someone like McCann.

Kinsler will be missed, but they had to move a middle infielder and they just signed Andrus to a big contract. It was the only possible solution and it is a hell of a return.
 
2013-11-21 01:30:02 AM

Uncle Pooky: Hoban Washburne: As a Ranger fan I don't like this trade.  If Prince hits 40 home runs, it was a brilliant move.  As it stands right now, it feels like posturing to placate a fanbase.


huh? the majority of the fanbase loves Kinsler. Personally, I'm not sad to see him go, and I think 81 games of Fielder at the Ballpark will be fun to watch. Is it a risky move? Sure. Do I love it? No question.


I forgot to mention that as well. You don't placate a fan base by trading the longest tenured player on the team. The reactions I have seen so far from casual fans who root for the player and not the laundry is that they hate this deal and think we need a wheelchair to get fielder around the bases because he is fat and slow ( FYI he has multiple inside the park home runs).

For people who actually look at and study the game they will see that this a win win situation for both the rangers and tigers organization
 
2013-11-21 01:42:59 AM
I really like this trade as a Rangers fan for pretty much every reason you guys have stated above. Kinsler seemed pretty dour this past season and now that the trade has happened I'm less sad to see him go than I thought I would be.
 
2013-11-21 01:46:37 AM
I think Prince will help the Rangers, but I'm not that sorry to see him leave the Tigers. It certainly helps the chances of keeping Scherzer around, and keeping Miggy more healthy if he's going back to 1B.
 
2013-11-21 02:05:18 AM
So both teams get an aging, probably soon to be declining player with an expensive contract (everyone has been calling it for Fielder, but don't forget that second basemen seldom age gracefully). However, both teams will be able to move one of their top prospects into the starting lineup (Profar/Castellanos), while getting rid of a mostly mediocre player (Moreland/Infante). The Tigers, after cash considerations, will end up saving $76M over the life of Fielder's contract, which they will likely re-invest in attempting to sign Max Scherzer.

Both teams got better as a result of the trade. Fielder is maybe half-a-win better than Kinsler next year, but the Tigers also get the benefit of a much better defensive alignment in the infield. Along with the money saved being spent on someone else, it will likely more than wipe out whatever WAR difference there is between the two.

For the Rangers, it's clearly a good move in the short term. Andrus will be a capable replacement at 2B and Fielder helps their lineup immensely. But long-term, less so. I'm sure they have the money to take on that albatross of a contract, but I can't imagine it will look great on the bottom line when they're paying Prince $24M in 2020. It's also somewhat sad that they have to trade for a 1B/DH, when their farm system has produced all sorts of quality 1B/DH types over the years... that they've traded away. Travis Hafner, Chris Davis, Adrian Gonzalez, Justin Smoak and Mark Texiera. Long term, this trade will not do them favors, although perhaps they'll have enough money where it won't hurt them too much.
 
2013-11-21 02:20:29 AM
Good riddance, fatass.
 
2013-11-21 05:20:32 AM

slayer199: DeWayne Mann: In the 2 seasons before Fielder joined DET, Miggy saw strikes 58.1% of the time. Last 2 seasons, 60.9%. OPS: 1038 vs 1037

Not as dramatic as I thought it would be.

This is probably a good deal for the Tigers.  Cabrera can go back to first (where he's a very good in the field) and they can either move Castellanos back to 3rd (if he's ready...and likely is) or find someone else to play 3rd.

The Tigers will be dealing a starter for bullpen help.  I doubt it will be Scherzer unless it's an incredible deal.  Porcello is more likely as he continues to improve (and he's only 25).  Porcello would be FAR more effective with a sound infield as he's a ground ball pitcher.

They aren't THAT far away from being a championship team and the windows is closing so they need to do something to address their weaknesses.


However, trading porcello wouldn't make sense now, as they have a better infield.  Much better really.  Depending on who they put at 3b/1b, being flexible since miggy can play both.
 
2013-11-21 06:34:26 AM
As an A's fan, I don't like this. It improves both teams.
 
2013-11-21 06:56:43 AM
static1.businessinsider.com
 
2013-11-21 07:01:07 AM

slayer199: This is probably a good deal for the Tigers. Cabrera can go back to first (where he's a very good in the field) and they can either move Castellanos back to 3rd (if he's ready...and likely is) or find someone else to play 3rd.


Is Brandon Inge available?
 
2013-11-21 07:06:48 AM

Hoban Washburne: As a Ranger fan I don't like this trade.  If Prince hits 40 home runs, it was a brilliant move.  As it stands right now, it feels like posturing to placate a fanbase.


Fielder was a 25-30 HR player in Detroit.  Comercica Park is huge though.  He could probably be a 35-40 HR hitter in a smaller park.  The problem with Fielders contract is how long it is.  He'll be dead weight on any roster the last 3 or 4 years of the contract.
 
2013-11-21 07:13:50 AM

You Are All Sheep: However, trading porcello wouldn't make sense now, as they have a better infield. Much better really. Depending on who they put at 3b/1b, being flexible since miggy can play both.


That's true...but they need bullpen help and they're carrying 6 starters.  Smyly is ready to move into the rotation.  They could keep him in relief but that's probably a waste of resources.  Castellanos is not a great 3b from what I've read (though he may be better than Miggy.  Miggy will be a huge upgrade at 1b over Fielder.
 
2013-11-21 07:15:18 AM
The Tigers should bring back Granderson, put him in LF, and bat him cleanup behind Cabrera.

Great move for the Tigers.  Fielder was a bust in the postseason two years in a row and going back to his Brewers tenure.   The fans were going to boo the hell out of him next year after the Sox series.
 
2013-11-21 07:24:15 AM

violentsalvation: ChrisDe: violentsalvation: So Cabrera back to first and someone with mobility at third? I guess I should read more Detroit news in the off-season. I haven't paid much attention since the "wtf?" choice of a new manager.

Castellanos, the latest and greatest new thing, will likely move back to 3B. Cabrera had him blocked so they tried to make him an outfielder, but he supposedly wasn't the best out there.

Oh yeah, I've never looked at his stats but he sucked when they brought him up. Any other changes I've missed? Dirks, Infante, Kelly, Benoit? etc? I can't remember who all's contracts were set to run out. Peralta gone for good?


Infante won't be resigned now. Since Leyland is gone that means Kelly is gone. If Detroit signs a closer, Benoit might be gone although I think they'd be interested in returning him as a set-up guy. Peralta has been told he won't be signed, that was a done deal once they got Iglesias. Unless they pursue an OF, Dirks will be back in LF. He decent and cheap, but needs to find his 2012 hitting stroke.
 
2013-11-21 07:50:38 AM
Am I the only one that thinks the Tigers got the short end of the stick here? I'm walking Miguel every possible time, heck he might even get the B bonds treatment with intentional walks without an open base.
 
2013-11-21 08:02:00 AM
As someone who attends 25+ Tigers games a year and watches all the others, have fun Texas. If you make the playoffs get ready to watch bases loaded three pitch Ks.

Also people talking Castellanos, scouting report was that he has stone hands at 3rd. He'd need a year or two at the minors playing the position. Cabs moving to 3rd wasn't the only reason he switched positions. They'd more likely resign Infante to play third
 
2013-11-21 08:03:54 AM

moefuggenbrew: Am I the only one that thinks the Tigers got the short end of the stick here? I'm walking Miguel every possible time, heck he might even get the B bonds treatment with intentional walks without an open base.


Cabrera was IBB'd 19 times this year, which was 2nd in MLB behind David Ortiz. The Tigers could just move Victor Martinez up to the cleanup spot to prevent your scenario.

If Prince stayed with the Tigers and didn't get better, Cabrera was going to see that treatment anyway.
 
2013-11-21 08:21:18 AM

wxboy: The Tigers could just move Victor Martinez up to the cleanup spot to prevent your scenario.

If Prince stayed with the Tigers and didn't get better, Cabrera was going to see that treatment anyway.


The reason the Tigers picked up Fielder was for the offense while Martinez was injured.
 
2013-11-21 08:25:42 AM

skybreaker: As someone who attends 25+ Tigers games a year and watches all the others, have fun Texas. If you make the playoffs get ready to watch bases loaded three pitch Ks.

Also people talking Castellanos, scouting report was that he has stone hands at 3rd. He'd need a year or two at the minors playing the position. Cabs moving to 3rd wasn't the only reason he switched positions. They'd more likely resign Infante to play third


Castellanos was a third baseman his entire career, until Detroit moved Cabrera to third. He's not great, but it will still be an upgrade. You can bet he'll be Vizquel's pet project this spring.
 
2013-11-21 08:25:58 AM

bulldg4life: I think everybody assumed the Tigers would end up getting rid of that stupid contract while eating tens of millions just to trade him.

Not sure year 2 was expected.


They're paying 138m for 2 years of fielder and 4 of kinsler instead of 214m for 9 of prince.eanwhile Texas pays 138m for prince through 2020. I think I'd prefer detroit's lot in this.
 
2013-11-21 08:26:08 AM
Living in Toledo, I watched Castellanos in quite a few games. The dude is going to be a force at the plate id he can carry over any of his AAA ability to the majors so this is just a plus move for the tigers, in my opinion. They really solidified their infield this past seasonish, and what was once a laughable assortment of arguably the worst defensive players at their positions is now actually looking like a benefit to them, at least in the short term.
 
2013-11-21 08:30:59 AM
If you're a rangers fan and like this trade, you need to get your head examined.

Fielders will probably bat in the .250's to .260s next year with 25 HRs and well over 100 Ks.
 
2013-11-21 08:39:26 AM
Isn't Prince a vegetarian? How the f*ck can you be so fat and sloppy eating only veggies? I guess it's a good thing his fat ass is a first baseman, he'd never make it at any other position.
 
2013-11-21 08:48:10 AM

MugzyBrown: If you're a rangers fan and like this trade, you need to get your head examined.

Fielders will probably bat in the .250's to .260s next year with 25 HRs and well over 100 Ks.


The Rangers just got Prince Fielder for (almost) FREE.
The math:
Kinsler is owed 4 years, $57M + $5M
Fielder is owed 7 years, $168M
Detroit is sending $30M
 
168 (Fielder) - 62 (Kinsler) = $106M (Delta) - $30M (Detroit) = $76M
 
Texas gets Fielder for 7/$76M. Texas was committed to Kinsler for 4/$62M.
 
NET deal: Texas gets Fielder for 3 years for $14M at the back of his contract after the straight up swap of Kinsler for Fielder for four years.
 
In the next four years, Fielder might hit 125 home runs in our ball park alone.
 
JD gets an A+ in my book and I'm not even a Fielder fan but am a Kinsler fan.

Fielder replaces the power outage when Napoli left. Kinsler can go hit pop ups in Detroit for all that money.
 
2013-11-21 08:53:31 AM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: In the next four years, Fielder might hit 125 home runs in our ball park alone.


.087
.057
.077
.055
.066
.051
.040

Fielder's HRs per at bat over the past several years.  At his current rate it'll take him about 10 seasons to hit 125 HRs at home.
 
2013-11-21 08:59:45 AM

MugzyBrown: Lt. Cheese Weasel: In the next four years, Fielder might hit 125 home runs in our ball park alone.

.087
.057
.077
.055
.066
.051
.040

Fielder's HRs per at bat over the past several years.  At his current rate it'll take him about 10 seasons to hit 125 HRs at home.


Not at his new home

Sorry about Kinsler Di, but I thought it was coming.
 
2013-11-21 09:04:21 AM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: MugzyBrown: If you're a rangers fan and like this trade, you need to get your head examined.

Fielders will probably bat in the .250's to .260s next year with 25 HRs and well over 100 Ks.

The Rangers just got Prince Fielder for (almost) FREE.
The math:
Kinsler is owed 4 years, $57M + $5M
Fielder is owed 7 years, $168M
Detroit is sending $30M
 
168 (Fielder) - 62 (Kinsler) = $106M (Delta) - $30M (Detroit) = $76M
 
Texas gets Fielder for 7/$76M. Texas was committed to Kinsler for 4/$62M.
 
NET deal: Texas gets Fielder for 3 years for $14M at the back of his contract after the straight up swap of Kinsler for Fielder for four years.
 
In the next four years, Fielder might hit 125 home runs in our ball park alone.
 
JD gets an A+ in my book and I'm not even a Fielder fan but am a Kinsler fan.

Fielder replaces the power outage when Napoli left. Kinsler can go hit pop ups in Detroit for all that money.


Your math would be correct if the money on both contracts was flat rate, but it's not. Kinslers deal goes down every year whereas Fielders is a flat $24m every year. Theoretically Detroit could just pay for Fielder this whole year, then for a quarter of next year and Texas gets Prince for free for a year and a quarter where Detroit gets Kinsler for less and less each year while keeping the ability to sign their own star free agents and Texas remains hamstrung with a $24m dollar every year.
 
2013-11-21 09:05:29 AM

Muta: Hoban Washburne: As a Ranger fan I don't like this trade.  If Prince hits 40 home runs, it was a brilliant move.  As it stands right now, it feels like posturing to placate a fanbase.

Fielder was a 25-30 HR player in Detroit.  Comercica Park is huge though.  He could probably be a 35-40 HR hitter in a smaller park.  The problem with Fielders contract is how long it is.  He'll be dead weight on any roster the last 3 or 4 years of the contract.


Fielder did hit a TON of warning track fly outs.  If the walls were in 15 feet or so all around that park, I bet he would have hit over 40 HRs last year.
 
2013-11-21 09:07:33 AM

Muta: Comercica Comerica Park is huge though.


Not to right field it isn't.
 
2013-11-21 09:16:48 AM
Kinsler's refusal to play anywhere other than 2nd base pretty much sealed his fate.  Watching Profar try to convert to left field was comical.

We still need to get power in the outfield.  (Sayonara, David Twitchy Murphy!)

Pitching also needs to stay healthy this year.
 
2013-11-21 09:25:04 AM

moefuggenbrew: Am I the only one that thinks the Tigers got the short end of the stick here? I'm walking Miguel every possible time, heck he might even get the B bonds treatment with intentional walks without an open base.


You're acting like fielder was hitting a ton, he wasn't and not exactly feared as a hitter.
 
2013-11-21 09:28:22 AM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: MugzyBrown: If you're a rangers fan and like this trade, you need to get your head examined.

Fielders will probably bat in the .250's to .260s next year with 25 HRs and well over 100 Ks.

The Rangers just got Prince Fielder for (almost) FREE.
The math:
Kinsler is owed 4 years, $57M + $5M
Fielder is owed 7 years, $168M
Detroit is sending $30M
 
168 (Fielder) - 62 (Kinsler) = $106M (Delta) - $30M (Detroit) = $76M
 
Texas gets Fielder for 7/$76M. Texas was committed to Kinsler for 4/$62M.
 
NET deal: Texas gets Fielder for 3 years for $14M at the back of his contract after the straight up swap of Kinsler for Fielder for four years.
 
In the next four years, Fielder might hit 125 home runs in our ball park alone.
 
JD gets an A+ in my book and I'm not even a Fielder fan but am a Kinsler fan.

Fielder replaces the power outage when Napoli left. Kinsler can go hit pop ups in Detroit for all that money.


Napoli only became a power hitter again when he went to Boston, he had a miserable year his last one with the Rangers. I assume of course that now that Murphy has signed with the Indians he'll be MVP.
 
2013-11-21 09:28:29 AM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: MugzyBrown: If you're a rangers fan and like this trade, you need to get your head examined.

Fielders will probably bat in the .250's to .260s next year with 25 HRs and well over 100 Ks.

The Rangers just got Prince Fielder for (almost) FREE.
The math:
Kinsler is owed 4 years, $57M + $5M
Fielder is owed 7 years, $168M
Detroit is sending $30M
 
168 (Fielder) - 62 (Kinsler) = $106M (Delta) - $30M (Detroit) = $76M
 
Texas gets Fielder for 7/$76M. Texas was committed to Kinsler for 4/$62M.


Texas was committed to Kinsler for $63 million, which is why you subtracted it from the $168 million above.

The comparison is Fielder for 7 years, $138 million versus Kinsler for 4 years, $62 million.  You're basically trading contracts and then getting Fielder for 3 years at $25 million a year when he is 35, 36, and 37 years old.
 
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