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(Deadspin)   A-Rod storms out of arbitration hearing, believes process to be bigger farce than his career   (deadspin.com) divider line 120
    More: Fail, Alex Rodriguez, arbitration hearing, Bud Selig, storms  
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1530 clicks; posted to Sports » on 20 Nov 2013 at 3:13 PM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-20 03:16:24 PM  
Well both things are farces, that's for sure.
 
2013-11-20 03:21:30 PM  
That's it. Bring in the Supreme Court!
 
2013-11-20 03:21:38 PM  
To borrow from the link I submitted too late, this would be the first time in his career that he's taken a walk in a key situation.
 
2013-11-20 03:23:40 PM  
I'm with A-Rod.  Somehow.
 
2013-11-20 03:25:17 PM  
The A-Rod doth protest too much, methinks.
 
2013-11-20 03:28:29 PM  
I fully admit that I've been ignoring most of the 800 A-rod threads we've had on the site, but was there a thread for MLB impeding an official investigation?
 
2013-11-20 03:30:12 PM  

DeWayne Mann: I fully admit that I've been ignoring most of the 800 A-rod threads we've had on the site, but was there a thread for MLB impeding an official investigation?


Good lord.  A-Rod, MLB, and Florida state government.  I cannot, for the life of me, pick the worst of those three.
 
2013-11-20 03:30:16 PM  
How does he summon so much rage? We've definitely learned he hasn't experienced any growth as a human through all this. He's proving to be rather PED-estrian
 
2013-11-20 03:30:23 PM  
Gotta side with A-Rod on this too.  It's not a fair court when you jury is also the prosecutor and the judge doesn't have to justify his decision.
 
2013-11-20 03:30:56 PM  
[well-bye.jpg]
 
2013-11-20 03:37:42 PM  
Don't worry Alex, it will be all better.

cdn02.cdn.justjared.com
 
2013-11-20 03:38:36 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: Gotta side with A-Rod on this too.  It's not a fair court when you jury is also the prosecutor and the judge doesn't have to justify his decision.


Damn it, MLB, stop making me feel conflicting feelings.
 
2013-11-20 03:40:31 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: Gotta side with A-Rod on this too.  It's not a fair court when you jury is also the prosecutor and the judge doesn't have to justify his decision.


I'm pretty sure I can't subpoena the mayor if I got a speeding ticket or accused of a felony.

Just another case of Rodriguez pouting since he didn't get his way.
 
2013-11-20 03:41:14 PM  
This is the obligatory "I submitted this with a better headline" post for today.
 
2013-11-20 03:42:47 PM  

LessO2: Representative of the unwashed masses: Gotta side with A-Rod on this too.  It's not a fair court when you jury is also the prosecutor and the judge doesn't have to justify his decision.

I'm pretty sure I can't subpoena the mayor if I got a speeding ticket or accused of a felony.

Just another case of Rodriguez pouting since he didn't get his way.


But you should be able to confront the cop who wrote the ticket right?  who also happens to be the judge in the case.
 
2013-11-20 03:49:10 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: LessO2: Representative of the unwashed masses: Gotta side with A-Rod on this too.  It's not a fair court when you jury is also the prosecutor and the judge doesn't have to justify his decision.

I'm pretty sure I can't subpoena the mayor if I got a speeding ticket or accused of a felony.

Just another case of Rodriguez pouting since he didn't get his way.

But you should be able to confront the cop who wrote the ticket right?  who also happens to be the judge in the case.


Bud Selig was not the author of the CBA.  If Rodriguez has a problem with the rules, his beef is with the people who drafted the CBA, including the MLBPA.
 
2013-11-20 03:52:46 PM  
He's live on WFAN with Fatso right now, in studio.
 
2013-11-20 03:55:40 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: He's live on WFAN with Fatso right now, in studio.


What does Martin Brodeur have to do with this?
 
2013-11-20 03:57:36 PM  

LessO2: Representative of the unwashed masses: LessO2: Representative of the unwashed masses: Gotta side with A-Rod on this too.  It's not a fair court when you jury is also the prosecutor and the judge doesn't have to justify his decision.

I'm pretty sure I can't subpoena the mayor if I got a speeding ticket or accused of a felony.

Just another case of Rodriguez pouting since he didn't get his way.

But you should be able to confront the cop who wrote the ticket right?  who also happens to be the judge in the case.

Bud Selig was not the author of the CBA.  If Rodriguez has a problem with the rules, his beef is with the people who drafted the CBA, including the MLBPA.


Actually, he doesn't have a problem with the CBA.  He has a problem with getting a punishment that is explicitly outside the bounds of what is allowed in the CBA.
 
2013-11-20 03:57:38 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: LessO2: Representative of the unwashed masses: Gotta side with A-Rod on this too.  It's not a fair court when you jury is also the prosecutor and the judge doesn't have to justify his decision.

I'm pretty sure I can't subpoena the mayor if I got a speeding ticket or accused of a felony.

Just another case of Rodriguez pouting since he didn't get his way.

But you should be able to confront the cop who wrote the ticket right?  who also happens to be the judge in the case.


First, this is not a court of law. Let's not try to compare it to one.

I believe plenty of people from MLB have testified. I don't see why Selig in particular has to testify at this arbitration.

As for MLB having a person on the board, who else is on it? It isn't unusual for an arbitration board to have members from the parties involved along with one or more third parties. I would bet that the board also has a member from the MLBPA on it.

This was the process that got Ryan Braun off, so it isn't entirely rigged against the players.
 
2013-11-20 03:58:51 PM  

LessO2: Representative of the unwashed masses: LessO2: Representative of the unwashed masses: Gotta side with A-Rod on this too.  It's not a fair court when you jury is also the prosecutor and the judge doesn't have to justify his decision.

I'm pretty sure I can't subpoena the mayor if I got a speeding ticket or accused of a felony.

Just another case of Rodriguez pouting since he didn't get his way.

But you should be able to confront the cop who wrote the ticket right?  who also happens to be the judge in the case.

Bud Selig was not the author of the CBA.  If Rodriguez has a problem with the rules, his beef is with the people who drafted the CBA, including the MLBPA.


To continue the metaphor -- The cop who wrote you the ticket wasn't the guy who wrote the law, either.
 
2013-11-20 04:00:36 PM  

meanmutton: LessO2: Representative of the unwashed masses: LessO2: Representative of the unwashed masses: Gotta side with A-Rod on this too.  It's not a fair court when you jury is also the prosecutor and the judge doesn't have to justify his decision.

I'm pretty sure I can't subpoena the mayor if I got a speeding ticket or accused of a felony.

Just another case of Rodriguez pouting since he didn't get his way.

But you should be able to confront the cop who wrote the ticket right?  who also happens to be the judge in the case.

Bud Selig was not the author of the CBA.  If Rodriguez has a problem with the rules, his beef is with the people who drafted the CBA, including the MLBPA.

Actually, he doesn't have a problem with the CBA.  He has a problem with getting a punishment that is explicitly outside the bounds of what is allowed in the CBA.


He is complaining about the process that is set out in the CBA.

And there is plenty of discretion in the CBA for such a penalty to be issued, and the process to dispute it is this arbitration process.
 
2013-11-20 04:00:51 PM  

LessO2: Bud Selig was not the author of the CBA.  If Rodriguez has a problem with the rules, his beef is with the people who drafted the CBA, including the MLBPA.


Exactly. This is a process that he agreed to by agreeing to join the players union. And it should be noted that the person running the arbitration hearing is appointed jointly by MLB and the MLBPA. It's not a one-sided affair, unless the union is stabbing Rodriguez in the back.
 
2013-11-20 04:05:22 PM  

dywed88: meanmutton: LessO2: Representative of the unwashed masses: LessO2: Representative of the unwashed masses: Gotta side with A-Rod on this too.  It's not a fair court when you jury is also the prosecutor and the judge doesn't have to justify his decision.

I'm pretty sure I can't subpoena the mayor if I got a speeding ticket or accused of a felony.

Just another case of Rodriguez pouting since he didn't get his way.

But you should be able to confront the cop who wrote the ticket right?  who also happens to be the judge in the case.

Bud Selig was not the author of the CBA.  If Rodriguez has a problem with the rules, his beef is with the people who drafted the CBA, including the MLBPA.

Actually, he doesn't have a problem with the CBA.  He has a problem with getting a punishment that is explicitly outside the bounds of what is allowed in the CBA.

He is complaining about the process that is set out in the CBA.

And there is plenty of discretion in the CBA for such a penalty to be issued, and the process to dispute it is this arbitration process.


Here's the joint drug policy, which is part of the CBA:

http://www.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf

There is NO discretion.  See page 22.  First offense: 50 games.  Second offense: 100 games.  Third offense: Banned for life.

This is A-Rod's second offense.
 
2013-11-20 04:06:34 PM  

desertgeek: LessO2: Bud Selig was not the author of the CBA.  If Rodriguez has a problem with the rules, his beef is with the people who drafted the CBA, including the MLBPA.

Exactly. This is a process that he agreed to by agreeing to join the players union. And it should be noted that the person running the arbitration hearing is appointed jointly by MLB and the MLBPA. It's not a one-sided affair, unless the union is stabbing Rodriguez in the back.


1) The union is stabbing Rodriguez in the back.
2) The joint drug policy was also agreed to by the league and it's being ignored by Selig when he handed down a punishment other than a 100 game suspension.
 
2013-11-20 04:07:40 PM  
You know, it's outbursts like these that make me wonder that this kid is on something.
 
2013-11-20 04:07:59 PM  

dywed88: And there is plenty of discretion in the CBA for such a penalty to be issued, and the process to dispute it is this arbitration process.


Exactly.  And as mentioned upthread, it's this process that got Ryan Braun off the hook.

It boils down to someone who is used to getting his way, who is now facing the consequences of his actions.
 
2013-11-20 04:10:10 PM  
That's so weird.  It's not like A-Rod to just disappear like that in such a critical situation.
 
2013-11-20 04:10:35 PM  

idesofmarch: To borrow from the link I submitted too late, this would be the first time in his career that he's taken a walk in a key situation.


I'll see your fine baseball reference and raise you an Otter reference.  Gentlemen!
 
2013-11-20 04:13:06 PM  
meanmutton:
2) The joint drug policy was also agreed to by the league and it's being ignored by Selig when he handed down a punishment other than a 100 game suspension.

Except that his punishment isn't exclusively from the JDA.

"Rodriguez's discipline under the Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program is based on his use and possession of numerous forms of prohibited performance-enhancing substances, including Testosterone and human growth hormone, over the course of multiple years," Major League Baseball said in a statement. "Rodriguez's discipline under the Basic Agreement is for attempting to cover up his violations of the Program by engaging in a course of conduct intended to obstruct and frustrate the Office of the Commissioner's investigation."

Source
 
2013-11-20 04:15:10 PM  

meanmutton: There is NO discretion.  See page 22.  First offense: 50 games.  Second offense: 100 games.  Third offense: Banned for life.

This is A-Rod's second offense.


I thought they were punishing him for the MLB equivalent of obstructing justice on top of the fixed punishment for the actual drug use.
 
2013-11-20 04:19:19 PM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: Gotta side with A-Rod on this too.  It's not a fair court when you jury is also the prosecutor and the judge doesn't have to justify his decision.


It's not a court. It's more like a performance review at work by your supervisors. You're not constitutionally entitled to a fair hearing; you're barely entitled to any hearing.
 
2013-11-20 04:21:32 PM  

LessO2: dywed88: And there is plenty of discretion in the CBA for such a penalty to be issued, and the process to dispute it is this arbitration process.

Exactly.  And as mentioned upthread, it's this process that got Ryan Braun off the hook.

It boils down to someone who is used to getting his way, who is now facing the consequences of his actions.


Yeah, but Braun's thing was way more cut and dried. He failed a test and was suspended for 50 games. Because of a gap in handling of the sample his lawyer was able to convince the arbitrator, who was coincidentally fired after handing down his decision, to throw out the suspension.
 
2013-11-20 04:24:47 PM  

ladodger34: LessO2: dywed88: And there is plenty of discretion in the CBA for such a penalty to be issued, and the process to dispute it is this arbitration process.

Exactly.  And as mentioned upthread, it's this process that got Ryan Braun off the hook.

It boils down to someone who is used to getting his way, who is now facing the consequences of his actions.

Yeah, but Braun's thing was way more cut and dried. He failed a test and was suspended for 50 games. Because of a gap in handling of the sample his lawyer was able to convince the arbitrator, who was coincidentally fired after handing down his decision, to throw out the suspension.


Like I said earlier, it's the same  process.
 
2013-11-20 04:24:55 PM  
The important thing to remember here is that Bud Selig is a complete and total cock. Go away, Selig, and usurp the rightfully appointed president of some retirement community.
 
2013-11-20 04:25:29 PM  
Where was Melky Cabrera's giant suspension for obstruction of justice? He created a fake website for the illegal supplement he tested positive for.

Oh that's right he's not owed over $100 million by the biggest team in the league

Just because Arod is a dick doesn't mean MLB gets to throw out the rulebook and do whatever they want to him
 
2013-11-20 04:25:39 PM  

dukeblue219: meanmutton: There is NO discretion.  See page 22.  First offense: 50 games.  Second offense: 100 games.  Third offense: Banned for life.

This is A-Rod's second offense.

I thought they were punishing him for the MLB equivalent of obstructing justice on top of the fixed punishment for the actual drug use.


They are.  Except they haven't punished other people for that equivalent.  Melky Cabrera set up a fake website to fool investigators.  His attempt was hilarious and adorably pathetic, but that doesn't mean he wasn't attempting to obstruct justice.

MLB is trying to make an example of A-Rod, and Selig wants to go out saying, "see?  I cracked down on steroids."  That's not a valid reason to suspend A-Rod for a ton of games.
 
2013-11-20 04:30:20 PM  

Dafatone: dukeblue219: meanmutton: There is NO discretion.  See page 22.  First offense: 50 games.  Second offense: 100 games.  Third offense: Banned for life.

This is A-Rod's second offense.

I thought they were punishing him for the MLB equivalent of obstructing justice on top of the fixed punishment for the actual drug use.

They are.  Except they haven't punished other people for that equivalent.  Melky Cabrera set up a fake website to fool investigators.  His attempt was hilarious and adorably pathetic, but that doesn't mean he wasn't attempting to obstruct justice.

MLB is trying to make an example of A-Rod, and Selig wants to go out saying, "see?  I cracked down on steroids."  That's not a valid reason to suspend A-Rod for a ton of games.


This is not a criminal case, there is no "justice" to obstruct.  Rodriguez is accused of obstructing the Commissioner's investigation.

And said obstruction is the basis of the longer suspension above and beyond the JDA.
 
2013-11-20 04:31:42 PM  

LessO2: ladodger34: LessO2: dywed88: And there is plenty of discretion in the CBA for such a penalty to be issued, and the process to dispute it is this arbitration process.

Exactly.  And as mentioned upthread, it's this process that got Ryan Braun off the hook.

It boils down to someone who is used to getting his way, who is now facing the consequences of his actions.

Yeah, but Braun's thing was way more cut and dried. He failed a test and was suspended for 50 games. Because of a gap in handling of the sample his lawyer was able to convince the arbitrator, who was coincidentally fired after handing down his decision, to throw out the suspension.

Like I said earlier, it's the same  process.


Correct, the process is the same. I has a fail.
 
2013-11-20 04:32:22 PM  

LessO2: meanmutton:
2) The joint drug policy was also agreed to by the league and it's being ignored by Selig when he handed down a punishment other than a 100 game suspension.

Except that his punishment isn't exclusively from the JDA.

"Rodriguez's discipline under the Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program is based on his use and possession of numerous forms of prohibited performance-enhancing substances, including Testosterone and human growth hormone, over the course of multiple years," Major League Baseball said in a statement. "Rodriguez's discipline under the Basic Agreement is for attempting to cover up his violations of the Program by engaging in a course of conduct intended to obstruct and frustrate the Office of the Commissioner's investigation."

Source


Yup. The suspension has more to do with the obstruction charges than the JDA.

Now, Selig is padding the deck some by exercising his discretionary authority here. When you look at the other times a Commissioner has invoked the 'Best Interests of Baseball' punishment, it's been lifetime bans for involvement or links to gambling. To my knowledge, a Commissioner's never done a halfway measure like this because they usually wield the ban-hammer when it gets to the point that the Commissioner has to get involved. So, to most appearances, Selig is using his discretionary power to add to the JDA violation punishment using the obstruction charge as a cover. What A-Rod is accused of doing in the obstruction charge is akin in scope to what the Black Sox did: systematic corruption in the sport. So if A-Rod is guilty of obstructing this investigation, why not hand him a lifetime ban as well? Selig's trying to have things both ways, punishing an outspoken and (relatively before this shiatstorm hit) popular player in a major market beyond what the CBA allows in order to show off his strength and to warn other players that he's not going to tolerate any backtalk from them.
 
2013-11-20 04:39:43 PM  

LessO2: Dafatone: dukeblue219: meanmutton: There is NO discretion.  See page 22.  First offense: 50 games.  Second offense: 100 games.  Third offense: Banned for life.

This is A-Rod's second offense.

I thought they were punishing him for the MLB equivalent of obstructing justice on top of the fixed punishment for the actual drug use.

They are.  Except they haven't punished other people for that equivalent.  Melky Cabrera set up a fake website to fool investigators.  His attempt was hilarious and adorably pathetic, but that doesn't mean he wasn't attempting to obstruct justice.

MLB is trying to make an example of A-Rod, and Selig wants to go out saying, "see?  I cracked down on steroids."  That's not a valid reason to suspend A-Rod for a ton of games.

This is not a criminal case, there is no "justice" to obstruct.  Rodriguez is accused of obstructing the Commissioner's investigation.

And said obstruction is the basis of the longer suspension above and beyond the JDA.


And Selig doesn't want to be deposed because he could be facing obstruction of justice charges.  MLB botched a state of Florida investigation into Biogenisis by buying the documents that showed what baseball players bought what even after the state told them not to. As a result the owner of Biogenisis got off with a light fine, instead of jail time, and MLB got the information on PED users that it wanted. A person that is disputing what is said on that list could easily argue that MLB offered Biogenisis financial compensation for providing them a list with their name wrongfully on it, and also compensated them by sinking a criminal case into them by doing something they were told by the authorities not to do.

I'm not saying that is the case, but MLB's actions in sinking the criminal case by buying the list when they were told not to doesn't make their actions look all that credible.
 
2013-11-20 04:46:37 PM  

ladodger34: LessO2: dywed88: And there is plenty of discretion in the CBA for such a penalty to be issued, and the process to dispute it is this arbitration process.

Exactly.  And as mentioned upthread, it's this process that got Ryan Braun off the hook.

It boils down to someone who is used to getting his way, who is now facing the consequences of his actions.

Yeah, but Braun's thing was way more cut and dried. He failed a test and was suspended for 50 games. Because of a gap in handling of the sample his lawyer was able to convince the arbitrator, who was coincidentally fired after handing down his decision, to throw out the suspension.


The comment was in reference to the fairness of the process. If the system was rigged against the players, it wouldn't have been too hard to whitewash Ryan Braun's case.

Now, if the MBLPA is failing in its duty to aid Rodriguez that is another matter that has to be looked into. But his claims about Selig and MLB are not relevant to it.
 
2013-11-20 04:49:46 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: LessO2: meanmutton:
2) The joint drug policy was also agreed to by the league and it's being ignored by Selig when he handed down a punishment other than a 100 game suspension.

Except that his punishment isn't exclusively from the JDA.

"Rodriguez's discipline under the Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program is based on his use and possession of numerous forms of prohibited performance-enhancing substances, including Testosterone and human growth hormone, over the course of multiple years," Major League Baseball said in a statement. "Rodriguez's discipline under the Basic Agreement is for attempting to cover up his violations of the Program by engaging in a course of conduct intended to obstruct and frustrate the Office of the Commissioner's investigation."

Source

Yup. The suspension has more to do with the obstruction charges than the JDA.

Now, Selig is padding the deck some by exercising his discretionary authority here. When you look at the other times a Commissioner has invoked the 'Best Interests of Baseball' punishment, it's been lifetime bans for involvement or links to gambling. To my knowledge, a Commissioner's never done a halfway measure like this because they usually wield the ban-hammer when it gets to the point that the Commissioner has to get involved. So, to most appearances, Selig is using his discretionary power to add to the JDA violation punishment using the obstruction charge as a cover. What A-Rod is accused of doing in the obstruction charge is akin in scope to what the Black Sox did: systematic corruption in the sport. So if A-Rod is guilty of obstructing this investigation, why not hand him a lifetime ban as well? Selig's trying to have things both ways, punishing an outspoken and (relatively before this shiatstorm hit) popular player in a major market beyond what the CBA allows in order to show off his strength and to warn other players that he's not going to tolerate any backtalk from them.


So, you are saying that MLB had the authority to issue such a penalty under the CBA, but because it wasn't a lifetime ban it doesn't count?

Also, throwing a World Series and interfering with an MLB invesyigation are not remotely comparable.
 
2013-11-20 04:51:31 PM  

dywed88: ladodger34: LessO2: dywed88: And there is plenty of discretion in the CBA for such a penalty to be issued, and the process to dispute it is this arbitration process.

Exactly.  And as mentioned upthread, it's this process that got Ryan Braun off the hook.

It boils down to someone who is used to getting his way, who is now facing the consequences of his actions.

Yeah, but Braun's thing was way more cut and dried. He failed a test and was suspended for 50 games. Because of a gap in handling of the sample his lawyer was able to convince the arbitrator, who was coincidentally fired after handing down his decision, to throw out the suspension.

The comment was in reference to the fairness of the process. If the system was rigged against the players, it wouldn't have been too hard to whitewash Ryan Braun's case.

Now, if the MBLPA is failing in its duty to aid Rodriguez that is another matter that has to be looked into. But his claims about Selig and MLB are not relevant to it.


I already acknowledged as such upthread. The process is the same and I should have addressed it as such. The process itself isn't stacked against A-Rod.
 
2013-11-20 04:53:35 PM  

LessO2: Except that his punishment isn't exclusively from the JDA.


Don't bother.  Months ago, when the story first broke,  meanmutton was in these threads, going on and on and on about how this was unfair, that this was a drug issue, etc.  And I, and others, kept pointing out that this was also outside the JDA because of Rodriguez's attempt to undermine an official investigation.  Months later, he still hasn't gotten in through his head.

Good thing he's not A-Rod's attorney.
 
2013-11-20 04:56:50 PM  
A-Rod just said on Francesa's show that Selig "hates my guts" and is "trying to destroy me," oh lawd.
 
2013-11-20 04:57:32 PM  
To be fair.  Arbitration is a scam that should be made illegal.
 
2013-11-20 04:59:38 PM  

ElwoodCuse: Where was Melky Cabrera's giant suspension for obstruction of justice? He created a fake website for the illegal supplement he tested positive for.


To be fair, that website worked better than HealthCare.gov.
 
2013-11-20 05:02:15 PM  

robsul82: A-Rod just said on Francesa's show that Selig "hates my guts" and is "trying to destroy me," oh lawd.


It's not true.  There are a lot more people than Bud Selig who hates your guts.
 
2013-11-20 05:02:52 PM  

dukeblue219: meanmutton: There is NO discretion.  See page 22.  First offense: 50 games.  Second offense: 100 games.  Third offense: Banned for life.

This is A-Rod's second offense.

I thought they were punishing him for the MLB equivalent of obstructing justice on top of the fixed punishment for the actual drug use.


As others have noted, his punishment is more from the CBA than it is from the JDA.

That said, it should be noted that the drug test he allegedly failed was for amphetimines and not PEDs. In 2006, the first offense for amphetimines was more testing. They've changed it since then, but even now the first offense is a 25 game suspension rather than the 50 games for PEDs.

I think they are considered separate offenses but I haven't been able to confirm it. My gut tells me that if Carlos Ruiz gets popped for PEDs, he won't get 100 games.
 
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