If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Fox News)   If you're a tubby pilot or air traffic controller, now might be a good time to start that diet   (foxnews.com) divider line 63
    More: Interesting, Federal Aviation Administration, air traffic controllers, obstructive sleep apnea, overweight  
•       •       •

6675 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Nov 2013 at 1:30 PM (21 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



63 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-11-20 12:16:03 PM
certificated is a perfectly cromulent word.
 
2013-11-20 12:18:02 PM
Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop eating food.
 
2013-11-20 12:27:13 PM
Airman applicants with a BMI (Body mass index) of 40 or more

cannot fit in the seats. Next applicant, please.
 
2013-11-20 12:42:59 PM

cryinoutloud: Airman applicants with a BMI (Body mass index) of 40 or more

cannot fit in the seats. Next applicant, please.


That.
 
2013-11-20 12:49:18 PM
Leon is going to get canned if it doesn't stop getting laaaaaaarrrrrgggger.
 
2013-11-20 01:04:36 PM
The FAA's chief concern is that people who are overweight are more prone to a condition known as obstructive sleep apnea (OSA), a disorder that negatively impacts sleep and places the person at high risk for falling asleep without warning at any time of the day or night.

That's an overly elaborate way to say, "No Fatties, please."
 
2013-11-20 01:05:59 PM

cryinoutloud: Airman applicants with a BMI (Body mass index) of 40 or more

cannot fit in the seats. Next applicant, please.


Maybe they'll just make the pilot use an extra seat like other fat people.  You know, like the co-pilot's seat.
 
2013-11-20 01:11:32 PM
This seems like a dumb rule - even in shape people like Reggie White can have obstructive sleep apnea, so they should be screening everyone.

It couldn't possibly be doctors and medical shops pushing for it, right? My sleep study was $5000 and a CPAP machine is $1800. There's money to be made in testing these folks.
 
2013-11-20 01:17:20 PM

The Onion is prophetic: Maybe they'll just make the pilot use an extra seat like other fat people.  You know, like the co-pilot's seat.


That IS a good idea. Those co-pilots get awfully expensive and what do you need them for anyway? The pilot already flies the plane!
 
2013-11-20 01:17:54 PM

Gig103: It couldn't possibly be doctors and medical shops pushing for it, right? My sleep study was $5000 and a CPAP machine is $1800. There's money to be made in testing these folks.


I don't think so, fatigue is a huge safety factor in aviation, so there's a legitimate reason to worry about a pilot who has OSA. If this was about making money for somebody, I think they'd have cast a much wider net than BMI >40.

I don't think I know very many working pilots who are in that range.
 
2013-11-20 01:32:45 PM

cryinoutloud: Airman applicants with a BMI (Body mass index) of 40 or more

cannot fit in the seats. Next applicant, please.


Couldn't the airlines just make the pilot buy an additional seat?
 
2013-11-20 01:34:56 PM
While it is true that obese people are more likely to have OSA, I just really don't like policies that start out with "We can't let X type of people do this because they have a higher chance of Y."

If a person can do the job, let them. Either test/screen/treat for OSA (and other conditions), or shut the fark up.
 
2013-11-20 01:35:41 PM
Sleep Apnea?  First I'd go after people who have kids.  They lose as much sleep and their attendance is worse.  And if those kids are hidden in a basement or a trunk these aren't the kind of people you want to hire anyways.
 
2013-11-20 01:38:33 PM
Big and tall airplanes, for the really rich fatties.
/i know they're called freight planes.
 
2013-11-20 01:40:27 PM
When are they going to address the flight-attendants? Isn't there a safety concern with old or overweight flight attendants?

thepublichistorian.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-11-20 01:46:59 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: When are they going to address the flight-attendants? Isn't there a safety concern with old or overweight flight attendants?

[thepublichistorian.files.wordpress.com image 515x365]


Male ones, too.  Those need to be screened for... ah... something serious.
 
2013-11-20 01:47:07 PM
So the war on perceived fat / ugly people continues unabated.

Meanwhile someone with a BMI of 40 shouldn't be doing any kind of machinery operation, heart attack risk is too great.
 
2013-11-20 01:49:03 PM

costermonger: I think they'd have cast a much wider net than BMI >40.


They plan to. From TFA:

"Once we have appropriately dealt with every airman examinee who has a BMI of 40 or greater," Tilton continued. "We will gradually expand the testing pool by going to lower BMI measurements until we have identified and assured treatment for every airman with OSA."

I understand how bad the fatigue can be, I just don't know why they don't cast the net across all airmen to begin with. And BMI is such a crappy and arbitrary measurement, why not the examining doctor decide what's best for his patient?
 
2013-11-20 01:49:23 PM
Jumbo Jets are just airline speak for XXL
 
2013-11-20 01:49:37 PM
18.4 or lower: Underweight.
18.5 to 24.9: Normal weight.
25 to 29.9: Overweight.
30 or higher: Obese.

So guessing 40 is grossly obese.
 
2013-11-20 01:50:39 PM

FabulousFreep: So the war on perceived fat / ugly people continues unabated.
Meanwhile someone with a BMI of 40 shouldn't be doing any kind of machinery operation, heart attack risk is too great.


Someone with a BMI of 40 is not just "perceived" fat. What would be a trick is to perceive them as being perfectly average and healthy.

But we're getting there.
 
2013-11-20 01:50:49 PM
Oh and one other thing that would apply to commercial pilots. If they are found to have OSA and cannot use a CPAP machine (it happens), and/or if the surgery isn't successful (50% is optimistic), does it then count as a disability? Or do they just get shiatcanned?
 
2013-11-20 01:51:42 PM

ShadowKamui: Jumbo Jets are just airline speak for XXL


"Tower this is United eight-two-two heavy"
"You sure are, how's your sleep apnea?"
 
2013-11-20 01:51:55 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: When are they going to address the flight-attendants? Isn't there a safety concern with old or overweight flight attendants?

[thepublichistorian.files.wordpress.com image 515x365]


I was just on Air Canada, and I doubt there was a functioning menstrual cycle among the entire bunch. Seriously. The average had to be 55.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. I just didn't think you'd want to spend 35 years pushing those damn carts.
 
2013-11-20 01:56:24 PM
Go fly fat somewhere else.
 
2013-11-20 02:01:14 PM

FabulousFreep: So guessing 40 is grossly obese.


Or in uncharted territory. Since BMI is mass over height squared, but when you scale something it's volume is a cubic function, it's unfair around the edges.
 
2013-11-20 02:01:44 PM

Gig103: costermonger: I think they'd have cast a much wider net than BMI >40.

They plan to. From TFA:

"Once we have appropriately dealt with every airman examinee who has a BMI of 40 or greater," Tilton continued. "We will gradually expand the testing pool by going to lower BMI measurements until we have identified and assured treatment for every airman with OSA."

I understand how bad the fatigue can be, I just don't know why they don't cast the net across all airmen to begin with. And BMI is such a crappy and arbitrary measurement, why not the examining doctor decide what's best for his patient?


probably because of the time it will take to test everyone.  they want to address the highest risk category first, and they want the categories to be extremely simple and quick to identify.  while BMI might be an inaccurate metric to determine risk, it is an easy metric to create a category.  and probably more likely to address higher risk pilots/controllers then just going by lots or names, or whatever even more arbitrary categorical.
 
2013-11-20 02:02:50 PM
Actually, I dont have a problem with this.

People that are responsible for the lives of the cash-cow, err passengers, should be held to a higher standard than your typical diet-coke-passer-outer.
 
2013-11-20 02:03:41 PM

Gig103: Oh and one other thing that would apply to commercial pilots. If they are found to have OSA and cannot use a CPAP machine (it happens), and/or if the surgery isn't successful (50% is optimistic), does it then count as a disability? Or do they just get shiatcanned?


shiatcanned. Have a plan B.
 
2013-11-20 02:04:53 PM

Gig103: does it then count as a disability? Or do they just get shiatcanned?


doubtful.  some jobs have physical requirements.  disability law requires that reasonable accommodations be made for the physically incapable.  there aren't a lot of reasonable accommodations available to make an physically unsafe pilot safe that I know of.

/ they also don't let people with epilepsy be pilots, despite the fact that medicine can pretty much treat the disorder
 
2013-11-20 02:05:26 PM

Gig103: This seems like a dumb rule - even in shape people like Reggie White can have obstructive sleep apnea, so they should be screening everyone.

It couldn't possibly be doctors and medical shops pushing for it, right? My sleep study was $5000 and a CPAP machine is $1800. There's money to be made in testing these folks.


agreed
i would add tho - we cant just criminilize fat people like we did smokers, so this is the next best thing

/in a shrinking economy- rather than pitting one group against another and then feeding/employing the winner: we cull the entire population of "unwanteds"
//wonder who will be next?
 
2013-11-20 02:06:11 PM
Tubby?!

Oh, yes. Tubby.
 
2013-11-20 02:07:59 PM

Babwa Wawa: certificated is a perfectly cromulent word.


"Wow, you are certificated?" It sounds quite cromulentary.
 
2013-11-20 02:08:43 PM
Pure Bullshiat!  My Dad weighed all of 150 Lbs. soaking wet and had sleep apnea. Testing for all or none. Take your pick.
 
2013-11-20 02:10:06 PM
I know a fat air traffic controller, so I'm getting a real kick out of these replies.
 
2013-11-20 02:11:20 PM

bucket_pup: Pure Bullshiat!  My Dad weighed all of 150 Lbs. soaking wet and had sleep apnea. Testing for all or none. Take your pick.


It's probably because he was soaking wet. You could catch your death of cold that way.
 
2013-11-20 02:13:20 PM

FabulousFreep: 18.4 or lower: Underweight.
18.5 to 24.9: Normal weight.
25 to 29.9: Overweight.
30 or higher: Obese.

So guessing 40 is grossly obese.


Or muscular, bodybuilders are considered 'grossly obese' if you only go by BMI. Which is why BMI is only an indicator of body mass, and not of health.
 
2013-11-20 02:15:02 PM
I thought they had a hard enough time filling pilot's seats in the first place.
 
2013-11-20 02:16:19 PM

pute kisses like a man: Gig103: costermonger: I think they'd have cast a much wider net than BMI >40.

They plan to. From TFA:

"Once we have appropriately dealt with every airman examinee who has a BMI of 40 or greater," Tilton continued. "We will gradually expand the testing pool by going to lower BMI measurements until we have identified and assured treatment for every airman with OSA."

I understand how bad the fatigue can be, I just don't know why they don't cast the net across all airmen to begin with. And BMI is such a crappy and arbitrary measurement, why not the examining doctor decide what's best for his patient?

probably because of the time it will take to test everyone.  they want to address the highest risk category first, and they want the categories to be extremely simple and quick to identify.  while BMI might be an inaccurate metric to determine risk, it is an easy metric to create a category.  and probably more likely to address higher risk pilots/controllers then just going by lots or names, or whatever even more arbitrary categorical.


hmm... not as crappy as what Cigna is doing at my workplace. If you are above BMI or normal cholesterol levels, you are *required* to lose a full BMI point (annually) or face financial penalties. They gave us this notice with about 4 months warning before the cutoff date.

For me, that means I have to shed 12 pounds in 4 months, or risk losing my *discount* and having to pay *full price* for my health insurance (which amounts to an additional $3600 annually).

It started with:
1. You have to complete this "health assessment" or lose your discount... everyone did that... no one lost their discount.
2. You have to participate in 3 "coaching calls" about health issues... everyone did that... very few lost their discount (forgot to do it in time in one case I know about).
3. Now it's in 4 months, you have to lose 12 pounds or we'll cut off your discount.

...I'm just waiting for next year's requirements...it's going to be progressively harder on everyone, and there's nothing we can do about it.

Honestly, I know I need to lose weight, I recently bought a treadmill to drop the weight (on my own). But even when I was swimming 6-8 hours a week and running 16 miles every Saturday, I was still considered out of the normal range on BMI. The BMI requirements for my height are ridiculous. -I'm not sure I can meet them without starving myself. I was 6 pounds above it *once* and you could see most of my ribs.
 
2013-11-20 02:23:34 PM
If I was an ATC I would find it hard not to tell every departing plane to go with throttle up.
 
2013-11-20 02:23:53 PM
Gabrielmot:
It started with:
1. You have to complete this "health assessment" or lose your discount... everyone did that... no one lost their discount.
2. You have to participate in 3 "coaching calls" about health issues... everyone did that... very few lost their discount (forgot to do it in time in one case I know about).
3. Now it's in 4 months, you have to lose 12 pounds or we'll cut off your discount.

...I'm just waiting for next year's requirements...it's going to be progressively harder on everyone, and there's nothing we can do about it.



In three years, your company will have a team of unstoppable killing machines, ready for the inevitable robot uprising.
 
2013-11-20 02:24:25 PM

pute kisses like a man: probably because of the time it will take to test everyone.


I guess I'm too logical then, because I would just propose that we add OSA testing as a requirement for a medical certificate renewal. It spreads it out then, and isn't prejudicial.

I know being fat isn't a protected group, but saying "Fat pilots are getting tested" sounds like "Unmarried pilots need to be tested for venereal disease" or "Black pilots need to be tested for anemia".
 
2013-11-20 02:24:52 PM
The tricking industry has been dealing with this for years, welcome to govt control pilots!
 
2013-11-20 02:25:01 PM
I don't remember ever seeing a commercial pilot who had to waddle down the jetway.
 
2013-11-20 02:50:24 PM
Interesting. By this logic there are many, many professions where fatties should be banned. Anything involving driving, for instance, such as a bus driver or train engineer.

And yes, BMI should not be used for anything like this unless there is a process for exceptions for people with unusual physiques who are not actually fatties.
 
2013-11-20 03:01:05 PM

Gig103: I just don't know why they don't cast the net across all airmen to begin with. And BMI is such a crappy and arbitrary measurement


Because they have to start somewhere. Wherever they start will be crappy and arbitray.

BMI is also not completely arbitrary. Most people with a high BMI are indeed fat.
 
2013-11-20 03:11:50 PM
I have lost 3 kg/m2 in the last 3 months. It's a beginning.
 
2013-11-20 03:15:49 PM

Krieghund: Gig103: I just don't know why they don't cast the net across all airmen to begin with. And BMI is such a crappy and arbitrary measurement

Because they have to start somewhere. Wherever they start will be crappy and arbitray.

BMI is also not completely arbitrary. Most people with a high BMI are indeed fat.


This. Especially a BMI of 40. For a 5'10" male that would be 262 lbs. There is almost nobody on the planet who has a BMI of 40 who is not fat, and those few exceptions are most likely professional athletes who by definition are well outside the norm.
 
2013-11-20 03:18:57 PM

Jument: Interesting. By this logic there are many, many professions where fatties should be banned. Anything involving driving, for instance, such as a bus driver or train engineer.


You mean professions that already have medical fitness requirements?
 
2013-11-20 03:37:57 PM

Jument: Krieghund: Gig103: I just don't know why they don't cast the net across all airmen to begin with. And BMI is such a crappy and arbitrary measurement

Because they have to start somewhere. Wherever they start will be crappy and arbitray.

BMI is also not completely arbitrary. Most people with a high BMI are indeed fat.

This. Especially a BMI of 40. For a 5'10" male that would be 262 lbs. There is almost nobody on the planet who has a BMI of 40 who is not fat, and those few exceptions are most likely professional athletes who by definition are well outside the norm.


I'm 6'4" with a big frame. I'm trim at 140 with a 36" waist. I'm am not a muscle guy, just pretty normal. My BMI is 29.2, just under obese. No way I'd ever be considered to be obese by anyone. As I recall BMI was used as a way to demonstrate statistical correlation and was never developed from a medical study.
 
Displayed 50 of 63 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report