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(NPR)   For some reason, other countries are deciding to pull their business from U.S. cloud service companies because they don't want the NSA protecting their freedoms   (npr.org) divider line 71
    More: Obvious, NSA, U.S., U.S. cloud, Foreign relations of the United States, CSCO, data transfer, networking hardware, political freedom  
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3500 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Nov 2013 at 12:43 PM (21 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-20 12:04:05 PM
Shiat's gotten real...
 
2013-11-20 12:12:33 PM
The NSA isn't going to stop until their funding is cut.  They're simply incapable of following the law.  Hell, they can't even follow guidelines.

It will be very interesting to see what Amazon does if their cloud business starts to suffer.
 
2013-11-20 12:32:52 PM
I'm not technical computer guy, but I'm pretty sure the NSA will access your shiat whether it's in a US-based service or not. I'm also pretty sure that the NSA is not the only electronic data-gathering outfit in town.
 
2013-11-20 12:38:01 PM
NPR summed it up in the radio portion this morning:

The old telecoms like AT&T are accustomed to yelling "how high" when the government tells them to jump.

The new tech companies like Google are yelling "what do you mean - jump?" when the government tells them to jump.


It will be interesting to see how this turns out, but I really expect them all to cave in to the government pressure, in the end.
 
2013-11-20 12:40:35 PM

Cagey B: I'm not technical computer guy, but I'm pretty sure the NSA will access your shiat whether it's in a US-based service or not. I'm also pretty sure that the NSA is not the only electronic data-gathering outfit in town.


The NSA relies on the cooperation of telcos to gain access to the wiring closets.  If Brazil decides to require all hosting to be done in Brazil, the NSA is out of luck unless Brazil grants them access.
 
2013-11-20 12:43:41 PM
The only thing the U.S. has right now is military might, all else is faded glory. No freedom, no bravery, and the your business ideas are not safe.
 
2013-11-20 12:45:01 PM
images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-11-20 12:46:09 PM
More govt control please
 
2013-11-20 12:47:23 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Cagey B: I'm not technical computer guy, but I'm pretty sure the NSA will access your shiat whether it's in a US-based service or not. I'm also pretty sure that the NSA is not the only electronic data-gathering outfit in town.

The NSA relies on the cooperation of telcos to gain access to the wiring closets.  If Brazil decides to require all hosting to be done in Brazil, the NSA is out of luck unless Brazil grants them access.


Exactly, the first rule of spying is to always ask permission from the country you are going to be spying on.
 
2013-11-20 12:49:08 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Cagey B: I'm not technical computer guy, but I'm pretty sure the NSA will access your shiat whether it's in a US-based service or not. I'm also pretty sure that the NSA is not the only electronic data-gathering outfit in town.

The NSA relies on the cooperation of telcos to gain access to the wiring closets.  If Brazil decides to require all hosting to be done in Brazil, the NSA is out of luck unless Brazil grants them access.


I doubt that the NSA requires compliance from anyone if the stories regarding the NSA/Cyber Command are true. It just makes it easier. I suspect moving your data back to country-x is going to make it anymore safe from the US, China, Russia, Germany, UK, France, Italy.........etc
 
2013-11-20 12:49:35 PM
I  have 2 terrabytes of storage in my computer alone. WTF do I need the cloud for?
 
2013-11-20 12:51:16 PM
Remember two years ago when the stories were about how prolific China's hacking groups were?
 
2013-11-20 12:51:45 PM
I'm so glad the NSA stories are NOT fading away.. These stories need to be circulated as much as possible and often as possible. This should be one of those things that conveniently goes away after the next wave of MSM `breaking news'..  fark them in their poop holes
 
2013-11-20 12:52:16 PM
Well no shiat.
 
2013-11-20 12:52:52 PM

BlackMtnMan: I  have 2 terrabytes of storage in my computer alone. WTF do I need the cloud for?


Not having your upstream capacity arbitrarily capped by your ISP?  That's pretty much it.  Our normal connections are designed for consuming information, not distributing it.
 
2013-11-20 12:54:07 PM
Dear NSA:

Thanks for f***ing everything. No, really. Good friggin' job there boys.

-- Cisco's Shareholders.

charting.nasdaq.com
 
2013-11-20 12:55:02 PM

BlackMtnMan: I  have 2 terrabytes of storage in my computer alone. WTF do I need the cloud for?


Why you hate america?!  Why?!

Seriously, questions by consumers are not encouraged, they told you to buy into it...DO IT!
 
2013-11-20 12:58:40 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Cagey B: I'm not technical computer guy, but I'm pretty sure the NSA will access your shiat whether it's in a US-based service or not. I'm also pretty sure that the NSA is not the only electronic data-gathering outfit in town.

The NSA relies on the cooperation of telcos to gain access to the wiring closets.  If Brazil decides to require all hosting to be done in Brazil, the NSA is out of luck unless Brazil grants them access.


Well then I didn't understand the issues up to this point either.  I thought US data on US servers was "safe", and NSA was getting their "Google/Bing/Yahoo" information off of data that passed through other countries.

"safe" being relative that whatever rules NSA plays by will be different from a)What they say it is, b) What other countries do, c) what other companies foreign and domestic, and d) what hackers do.

So unless it's hand written in a book by your bedside it's not secure.  Even then someone out there somewhere knows you have your Caroline Rhae fanfiction porn in a booklet next to your bed, even if they don't know which one of you is wearing the lamb costume.
 
2013-11-20 12:59:24 PM

Cagey B: I'm not technical computer guy, but I'm pretty sure the NSA will access your shiat whether it's in a US-based service or not. I'm also pretty sure that the NSA is not the only electronic data-gathering outfit in town.


It may, it may not... but that's not really the point.  Because the NSA has so grossly overstepped it's authority (and pissed off other countries in the process after being found out), US-based services are losing international business because of the public perception that they're insecure.

Aside from the fact that businesses don't like to lose paying customers, it also means that the U.S. is gradually losing it's power over the internet.  Many countries have been content to basically let the U.S. run things in terms of how the interwebz works and develops.  A lot of internet standards have come from U.S. companies and have been implemented worldwide.  Everything from basic web standards to security and encryption standards.   Now they're starting to think that maybe the U.S. doesn't have their best interests in mind when it comes to online matters, which inevitably begins to cast doubt on those standards.
 
2013-11-20 12:59:24 PM

make me some tea: Shiat's gotten real...


Sadly, this is true.
 
2013-11-20 12:59:35 PM

Cagey B: I'm not technical computer guy, but I'm pretty sure the NSA will access your shiat whether it's in a US-based service or not. I'm also pretty sure that the NSA is not the only electronic data-gathering outfit in town.


But only US-based service providers are subject to NSLs and the permanent gag order they come with.
 
2013-11-20 01:00:39 PM

johnnieconnie: NPR summed it up in the radio portion this morning:

The old telecoms like AT&T are accustomed to yelling "how high" when the government tells them to jump.

The new tech companies like Google are yelling "what do you mean - jump?" when the government tells them to jump.


It will be interesting to see how this turns out, but I really expect them all to cave in to the government pressure, in the end.


Not if they find out what the Koch Bros. do in order to get something they want.  If they do, all bets are off.
 
2013-11-20 01:02:36 PM
img.fark.net
 
2013-11-20 01:04:25 PM
dl.dropboxusercontent.com

USA! USA! USA!
 
2013-11-20 01:06:34 PM

b2theory: Remember two years ago when the stories were about how prolific China's hacking groups were?


Yea, but it was bad then for some reason.
 
2013-11-20 01:06:36 PM
Yeah, because the NSA totally lacks the ability to snoop on your cloud storage, if the server is located in Peru.
 
2013-11-20 01:08:14 PM

Kionae: Aside from the fact that businesses don't like to lose paying customers, it also means that the U.S. is gradually losing it's power over the internet. Many countries have been content to basically let the U.S. run things in terms of how the interwebz works and develops. A lot of internet standards have come from U.S. companies and have been implemented worldwide. Everything from basic web standards to security and encryption standards. Now they're starting to think that maybe the U.S. doesn't have their best interests in mind when it comes to online matters, which inevitably begins to cast doubt on those standards.


until they discover how much it will actually cost to take them over and realize that switching from the US really only switches what country is spying on them and doesn't eliminate the spying. then it will go back to the way it has been
 
2013-11-20 01:09:40 PM
My @Regan.Com email is still secure suckers!
 
2013-11-20 01:10:10 PM
Nice to see the US Government neither trusts its own citizens or the rest of the world.
 
2013-11-20 01:10:35 PM

tmonsta: Marcus Aurelius: Cagey B: I'm not technical computer guy, but I'm pretty sure the NSA will access your shiat whether it's in a US-based service or not. I'm also pretty sure that the NSA is not the only electronic data-gathering outfit in town.

The NSA relies on the cooperation of telcos to gain access to the wiring closets.  If Brazil decides to require all hosting to be done in Brazil, the NSA is out of luck unless Brazil grants them access.

Exactly, the first rule of spying is to always ask permission from the country you are going to be spying on.


I am no expert by any means, but to my limited understanding, they didn't gain access by hacking into some system, but by twisting arms. If it is a company in another country, only their version of NSA can do that arm twisting.

In all fairness, the NSA-UK or NSA-france will do/does the same, but NSA-US is caught, and they are not. And by the standard of innocent until proven guilty, they are more likely to be trusted by customers and ours.
 
2013-11-20 01:12:23 PM

johnnieconnie: NPR summed it up in the radio portion this morning:

The old telecoms like AT&T are accustomed to yelling "how high" when the government tells them to jump.

The new tech companies like Google are yelling "what do you mean - jump?" when the government tells them to jump.


It will be interesting to see how this turns out, but I really expect them all to cave in to the government pressure, in the end.


which is utter BS. Google, facebook, and the rest of them are more than happy to open their data to the NSA. They pay them really really well to do so. Hell facebook just was awarded a patent which makes it easier for them to deliver the goods.

The CIA has a corporate arm that funds start ups and businesses

And moving the data to a foreign country doesnt do jack shiat when the internet backbone traverses the US and the NSA has taps on all the major switches. They would have to move to a different country AND somehow make sure that the information doesn't go over one of the choke points the NSA is sitting on. On top of that the folks working in Maryland have access to zeroday exploits given to them by MS. Add to that they have folks there that were able to create and develop a cyber weapon that has never been seen on the planet before. there was an awesome article about it today.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/11/19/stuxnets_secret_twin _ iran_nukes_cyber_attack

Read that and tell me that your data anywhere in the world is safe from these guys.
 
2013-11-20 01:19:00 PM

Gentoolive: More govt

SELF-control please

/fixed for freedom
 
2013-11-20 01:19:05 PM

mayIFark: tmonsta: Marcus Aurelius: Cagey B: I'm not technical computer guy, but I'm pretty sure the NSA will access your shiat whether it's in a US-based service or not. I'm also pretty sure that the NSA is not the only electronic data-gathering outfit in town.

The NSA relies on the cooperation of telcos to gain access to the wiring closets.  If Brazil decides to require all hosting to be done in Brazil, the NSA is out of luck unless Brazil grants them access.

Exactly, the first rule of spying is to always ask permission from the country you are going to be spying on.

I am no expert by any means, but to my limited understanding, they didn't gain access by hacking into some system, but by twisting arms. If it is a company in another country, only their version of NSA can do that arm twisting.

In all fairness, the NSA-UK or NSA-france will do/does the same, but NSA-US is caught, and they are not. And by the standard of innocent until proven guilty, they are more likely to be trusted by customers and ours.


That's because it's easier that way, not because it's not possible the other way.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/07/newly-leaked-nsa-slide-shows- th at-nsa-is-tapping-all-data-from-main-undersea-phone-and-internet-cable s.html
 
2013-11-20 01:21:28 PM
You are paying for the ability to let a government examine your files.  No hacking, burglary, or similar actions- YOU have given permission for them to store, use and disperse your info. I know, this type of observation is not a crime when the government does it to their citizens.


I remember reading a message from the EU warning that EU countries should not trust TETRA for communications encryption because it is made by an American company, Motorola.  Would a US based company make unencrypted comms available to the US government?  (For a price.....)
 
2013-11-20 01:23:11 PM

mayIFark: tmonsta: Marcus Aurelius: Cagey B: I'm not technical computer guy, but I'm pretty sure the NSA will access your shiat whether it's in a US-based service or not. I'm also pretty sure that the NSA is not the only electronic data-gathering outfit in town.

The NSA relies on the cooperation of telcos to gain access to the wiring closets.  If Brazil decides to require all hosting to be done in Brazil, the NSA is out of luck unless Brazil grants them access.

Exactly, the first rule of spying is to always ask permission from the country you are going to be spying on.

I am no expert by any means, but to my limited understanding, they didn't gain access by hacking into some system, but by twisting arms. If it is a company in another country, only their version of NSA can do that arm twisting.

In all fairness, the NSA-UK or NSA-france will do/does the same, but NSA-US is caught, and they are not. And by the standard of innocent until proven guilty, they are more likely to be trusted by customers and ours.


In order to gain information on Americans YES they twist arms etc with US companies. BUT when the targets are non US persons all bets are off. They can do whatever the hell they want. Hence hacking in to Chancellor Merkels personal phones and etc. They aren't asking for permission or twisting arms but hacking away at targets just as any other criminal enterprise would do. The only difference is they have the blessing of the US government.

They do the arm twisting, they hack, the develop malware with the blessings of the OS manufacturers all under the guise of fighting terrorism. When we know they have been hacking in to oil companies in other countries as well as many other non terrorism related matters for what appears to be economic reasons etc. We have no idea who has access to this intel as there are as many as 50,000 people with clearance similar to Snowden. Contractors working with the US government who also have arms of their companies involved in many other areas besides national security.

Not to mention raw data on americans being given to foreign goverments for them to do with what they want (Israel). So not only are the NSA doing things that many folks would consider illegal, they are also taking that illegally obtained info on you, me and everyone else and giving it to countries like Israel. That alone is definitely complete BS. The NSA shouldn't even have the data on us as they are supposed to be restricted to non us people unless a warrant is issued. They then take that and say screw any laws we have in the US and give it to their allies.
 
2013-11-20 01:26:28 PM

skinink: Nice to see the US Government neither trusts its own citizens or the rest of the world.


Well, I guess that makes us all even.
 
2013-11-20 01:29:02 PM

mayIFark: I am no expert by any means, but to my limited understanding, they didn't gain access by hacking into some system,


Actually, they've been running some "man in the middle" interceptions - no cooperation from the company needed.

ALso, since most of the worldwide internet traffic eventually gets routed through one or two backbones in the US the NSA has a pretty far reach even if you're storing data in your own country.
 
2013-11-20 01:34:17 PM

johnnieconnie: NPR summed it up in the radio portion this morning:

The old telecoms like AT&T are accustomed to yelling "how high" when the government tells them to jump.

The new tech companies like Google are yelling "what do you mean - jump?" when the government tells them to jump.


It will be interesting to see how this turns out, but I really expect them all to cave in to the government pressure, in the end.


I'm going to have to disagree. Whether it is ratting out freedom bloggers in China, or helping the US track down campers, Google and Yahoo! have been all too eager to please large, unethical governments.
 
2013-11-20 01:35:11 PM

BlackMtnMan: I  have 2 terrabytes of storage in my computer alone. WTF do I need the cloud for?


I dunno.  Increased exposure to security breaches?  Sources of data loss outside your control?  Risk of unilateral changes in terms of use?  Access failure due to weird events in a remote location?  (My only cloud storage once had access interrupted because someone with a backhoe halfway across the country ripped through a fiber optic cable.)  Possession of servers containing your data going to who knows where if the cloud service provider becomes insolvent?  These are some things the "cloud" could provide that you probably don't have with your measly little 2 terabytes.

///feeling inadequate, only have 1.5 T....
 
2013-11-20 01:35:23 PM

Marcus Aurelius: It will be very interesting to see what Amazon does if their cloud business starts to suffer.


They should partner with Google, thepiratebay, etc. to buy a country and move their data centers there.
 
2013-11-20 01:37:58 PM

umad: Marcus Aurelius: It will be very interesting to see what Amazon does if their cloud business starts to suffer.

They should partner with Google, thepiratebay, etc. to buy a country and move their data centers there.


Then we can all pretend that the NSA can't get in. It'll be great!

While we're playing... can I be a ninja? I like ninjas. A ninja dinosaur though. This is gonna be AWESOME!
 
2013-11-20 01:38:28 PM
TED had a speaker on this who fully endorses this as a first step for actual security instead of 'trust us' security.

http://www.ted.com/talks/mikko_hypponen_how_the_nsa_betrayed_the_wor ld _s_trust_time_to_act.html
 
2013-11-20 01:46:02 PM

thurstonxhowell: umad: Marcus Aurelius: It will be very interesting to see what Amazon does if their cloud business starts to suffer.

They should partner with Google, thepiratebay, etc. to buy a country and move their data centers there.

Then we can all pretend that the NSA can't get in. It'll be great!

While we're playing... can I be a ninja? I like ninjas. A ninja dinosaur though. This is gonna be AWESOME!


So you understood my sarcastic point that there really isn't jack shiat that Amazon can do about it. Good for you!
 
2013-11-20 01:46:05 PM

Marcus Aurelius: The NSA isn't going to stop until their funding is cut.  They're simply incapable of following the law.  Hell, they can't even follow guidelines.

It will be very interesting to see what Amazon does if their cloud business starts to suffer.


They will build the CIA a massive secure cloud and get paid ?

http://www.informationweek.com/cloud/infrastructure-as-a-service/ama zo n-again-beats-ibm-for-cia-cloud-contract/d/d-id/1112211?
 
2013-11-20 01:46:25 PM

Cagey B: I'm not technical computer guy, but I'm pretty sure the NSA will access your shiat whether it's in a US-based service or not. I'm also pretty sure that the NSA is not the only electronic data-gathering outfit in town.


Yeah but if your services are hosted in a country with real privacy laws (like Canada) they are in violation of international laws by doing so.  As an IT manager you can't control that, but you did your due diligence by hosting your data in a country with privacy laws.
 
2013-11-20 01:47:19 PM
Think this is new ? The Patriot act pretty much made sure every major business in Canada had their cloud servers on the right side of the border. This whole NSA case is only the confirmation...
 
2013-11-20 01:47:36 PM

umad: thurstonxhowell: umad: Marcus Aurelius: It will be very interesting to see what Amazon does if their cloud business starts to suffer.

They should partner with Google, thepiratebay, etc. to buy a country and move their data centers there.

Then we can all pretend that the NSA can't get in. It'll be great!

While we're playing... can I be a ninja? I like ninjas. A ninja dinosaur though. This is gonna be AWESOME!

So you understood my sarcastic point that there really isn't jack shiat that Amazon can do about it. Good for you!


I can't talk to you now. I'm a ninja dinosaur. I have to be quiet.
 
2013-11-20 02:03:25 PM

Mokmo: Think this is new ? The Patriot act pretty much made sure every major business in Canada had their cloud servers on the right side of the border. This whole NSA case is only the confirmation...


what does the location of the servers have to do with anything ? You don't think the traffic going in and out of those networks goes over US fiber and choke points ? It certainly does. Add to that Canada is one of the 5 allies that get shared intel from the US (canada, UK, New Zealand, Australia and the US. I'm really surprised no one has mentioned the whiteness of the agreement)

Also Canadas NSA has been caught hacking foreign businesses so they are no better. The NSA successfully broke the encryption for Blackberry, a Canadian company and it was a huge get for the NSA. So do you really think the servers being anywhere except offline means anything to the NSA ?

It makes no difference where they are physically located. Hell they were able to hack the Iranians in a hardened nuclear site twice, once by a physical insertion and the second by infecting contractors who then inadvertently passed the malware to the target system. It was then able to hide for YEARS.
 
2013-11-20 02:24:58 PM

BlackMtnMan: I  have 2 terrabytes of storage in my computer alone. WTF do I need the cloud for?


Got all your eggs in one basket there?  Congratulations!
 
2013-11-20 02:25:08 PM

gaslight: Dear NSA:

Thanks for f***ing everything. No, really. Good friggin' job there boys.

-- Cisco's Shareholders.

[charting.nasdaq.com image 530x395]


I recommend a buy in about three working days (give it time to bottom out) The amateurs ditched the stock, so it's going to be a deal for people with more than two neurons.
 
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