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    More: Interesting, cats, JavaScript, telecommuting, PHP, Hadoop, job boards, programming languages  
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2910 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Nov 2013 at 10:44 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-20 10:50:57 AM  
You want to be able to  afford cats? Learn Java
 
2013-11-20 10:51:18 AM  
Why are they listing jQuery as separate from JavaScript?
 
2013-11-20 10:51:56 AM  
there is other evidence that JavaScript really is the top programming language today.

StoppedReadingThere.jpg

Its just some blogger who dropped out of comp sci trying to justify to his mom why he's home all day.
 
2013-11-20 10:58:26 AM  

BumpInTheNight: there is other evidence that JavaScript really is the top programming language today.

StoppedReadingThere.jpg

Its just some blogger who dropped out of comp sci trying to justify to his mom why he's home all day.


Out of curiosity, I clicked on the "other evidence" and it's just the same guy going off on how there's just so much Javascript code everywhere on websites.
 
2013-11-20 10:58:51 AM  
Wouldn't Python and Ruby be more useful to start out with?  I may be biased, though, since that what I started out with.
 
2013-11-20 10:58:54 AM  
Yes, that's what the  industry needs ... a proliferation of code from noobs who half as learn a scripting language that is a nightmare for other parties to debug because they don't want to give up their daily wake and bake habit.
 
2013-11-20 11:01:23 AM  
The point here isn't 'some languages can be written from home' so much as 'some languages aren't good for anything other than the kind of tasks you don't want to actually hire a real employee for'
 
db2
2013-11-20 11:06:38 AM  
Translation: JS weenies smell funny.
 
2013-11-20 11:10:56 AM  
"Knowing Javascript" could mean anything from making an alert box pop up when someone clicks on an HTML link, to using NodeJS to build out a RESTful API on a MongoDB server.

Companies that think long-term don't put too much emphasis on a specific language or framework, because the industry's going to have evolved into something very different in 5 years anyway.
 
2013-11-20 11:18:10 AM  
Three posts to get to 'that's not a real language'.  You're slow today fark.  Dismissal loses its import if not in the Boobies.
 
2013-11-20 11:27:45 AM  
In his defense, a lot of the jobs out there do seem to be for Java developers.
In everyone else's defense, reading between the lines seems to indicate that these companies also need people to start the Mr. Coffee in the morning.
 
2013-11-20 11:34:23 AM  
JavaScript (even JQuery) itself will take you nowhere. Its like to be able to cook, you need to know how to turn on the oven (knowing javascript), but you need to know how to cook as well (knowing Java and SQL).
 
2013-11-20 11:38:21 AM  

mayIFark: JavaScript (even JQuery) itself will take you nowhere. Its like to be able to cook, you need to know how to turn on the oven (knowing javascript), but you need to know how to cook as well (knowing Java and SQL).


Its important to note an important concept in this analogy:  Its not mentioned what turns off the oven, but we know it ain't javascript either.
 
2013-11-20 11:42:45 AM  
I've dealt with many non-programming supervisor types who seem to think that JavaScript == Java, or that JavaScript is somehow a light, easier to use version of Java. Sigh...
 
2013-11-20 11:43:21 AM  
I think the worst advice I could imagine giving to someone who wants to learn programming would be "learn JavaScript." I mean, sure you need to know it it you're going to have any interaction with the front-end, but to start there? I can't think of a more frustrating way to begin a career.
 
2013-11-20 11:47:17 AM  

This Looks Fun: I think the worst advice I could imagine giving to someone who wants to learn programming would be "learn JavaScript." I mean, sure you need to know it it you're going to have any interaction with the front-end, but to start there? I can't think of a more frustrating way to begin a career.


Seriously.  A language that requires a mammoth library to make it reasonably functional is an annoying place to start.
 
2013-11-20 11:47:26 AM  

This Looks Fun: I think the worst advice I could imagine giving to someone who wants to learn programming would be "learn JavaScript." I mean, sure you need to know it it you're going to have any interaction with the front-end, but to start there? I can't think of a more frustrating way to begin a career.


Visual Basic
 
2013-11-20 11:49:03 AM  

Obbi: BumpInTheNight: there is other evidence that JavaScript really is the top programming language today.

StoppedReadingThere.jpg

Its just some blogger who dropped out of comp sci trying to justify to his mom why he's home all day.

Out of curiosity, I clicked on the "other evidence" and it's just the same guy going off on how there's just so much Javascript code everywhere on websites.


I suppose it is true in the same way that Symbian was the top phone OS for a long time. Pretty much any web application requires Javascript regardless of the server-side code, so Javascript is everywhere. However, it would be a terrible way to learn coding concepts. Also, you really can't do anything useful if it is all you know.
 
2013-11-20 11:54:40 AM  

Millennium: Why are they listing jQuery as separate from JavaScript?


They also listed "iOS" and "Android" as languages.
 
2013-11-20 12:01:39 PM  
I love when farkers shoot something down but don't offer up any information on what would be a better choice.
So if Java isn't a good place to start what is?
I need a useful language to put on my resume.
 
2013-11-20 12:02:58 PM  

PsychoPhil: This Looks Fun: I think the worst advice I could imagine giving to someone who wants to learn programming would be "learn JavaScript." I mean, sure you need to know it it you're going to have any interaction with the front-end, but to start there? I can't think of a more frustrating way to begin a career.

Visual Basic


Couldn't agree less. VB with all of its faults was still a strongly typed, logically named/structured, debuggable language. You simply cannot say the same about OTS JavaScript.
 
2013-11-20 12:05:40 PM  

Space Station Wagon: I love when farkers shoot something down but don't offer up any information on what would be a better choice.
So if Java isn't a good place to start what is?
I need a useful language to put on my resume.


/Scans thread looking for someone saying Java is not good.
//Not finding any
 
2013-11-20 12:06:01 PM  

Space Station Wagon: I love when farkers shoot something down but don't offer up any information on what would be a better choice.
So if Java isn't a good place to start what is?
I need a useful language to put on my resume.


Silverlight, you will be that one guy that knows it and the best part is the odds of anyone else knowing it are so slim that you could go years without anyone figuring it out.
 
2013-11-20 12:06:03 PM  

Space Station Wagon: I love when farkers shoot something down but don't offer up any information on what would be a better choice.
So if Java isn't a good place to start what is?
I need a useful language to put on my resume.


Java is actually a decent place to start. Most shops are some level of OO, so it feeds right into that. JavaScript is neither OO nor a good place to start.

But "useful language to put on your resume" is almost helplessly vague. Most languages are geared to different tasks, so you'd almost want to have an idea of what you want to do before you try to look qualified to do it.
 
2013-11-20 12:08:54 PM  
Space Station Wagon:So if Java isn't a good place to start what is?

To be very clear: Java and JavaScript are only related in that they obey a lot of the same syntax rules. They are completely functionally different. They are almost as different as an actual paintbrush and a fully-featured photoshop suite.
 
2013-11-20 12:16:30 PM  
I'm working on a 10k lines of Node.js right now so I'm getting a kick out of these replies.
 
2013-11-20 12:17:42 PM  
Looks like I fell for java =/= javascript, even though I read it earlier in the thread. I mainly work in security & networking, server/desktop hardware & software. I wear a lot of hats. Back in the day I used to know HTML 4.
A friend of mine is always going on about python, but I was thinking about digging into Java EE7.
 
2013-11-20 12:23:49 PM  

Space Station Wagon: I love when farkers shoot something down but don't offer up any information on what would be a better choice.
So if Java isn't a good place to start what is?
I need a useful language to put on my resume.


This Looks Fun: Space Station Wagon:So if Java isn't a good place to start what is?

To be very clear: Java and JavaScript are only related in that they obey a lot of the same syntax rules. They are completely functionally different. They are almost as different as an actual paintbrush and a fully-featured photoshop suite.


TLF has it right.  JavaScript was developed by Netscape, not by Sun Microsystems, which developed Java.  Java and JavaScript are not the same animal, but share some of the same syntax.
 
2013-11-20 12:25:32 PM  
wohoo already learned it and the cat wont get off my keyboard
 
2013-11-20 12:27:29 PM  

Millennium: Why are they listing jQuery as separate from JavaScript?



Why else? He wanted more numbers on his graph. It is also lists iOS and Android as Programming Languages, so what are your conclusions. Clearly they have no idea what they are talking about which makes the site lose all credibility. Come on, I am not a career developer but clearly I know more about programming than this flake (though it is not saying much)
 
2013-11-20 12:29:42 PM  
I'd say it still depends on what kind of career move you want to make. And most "languages" are coupled with other languages. Or they have extensibility libraries.

UI/UX: You';; need a minimum of html5/css/js.

Backend/code (assuming Windows): at least C#/.NET/SQL - but from there you still want to know how to shape your projects. MVC? MVVM? Webforms? And you'll want to know what you'll be using to speak between layers. Linq? Razor? It's possible to specialize so much here that even switching design patterns in the same framework of languages takes months of adjusting.

It really is a difficult question to answer. But consider this: to get my degree, I learned SQL, MIPS, Java, and C++. That's what was on my resume. At my first job, I used VB, asp, html, javascript, and SQL. Learning a language gives you an understanding of the rules of programming. And those are fairly universal.
 
2013-11-20 12:31:24 PM  

Space Station Wagon: Looks like I fell for java =/= javascript, even though I read it earlier in the thread. I mainly work in security & networking, server/desktop hardware & software. I wear a lot of hats. Back in the day I used to know HTML 4.
A friend of mine is always going on about python, but I was thinking about digging into Java EE7.


If you learn Java, you'll know JavaScript.

if you learn JavaScript, you will not know Java.
 
2013-11-20 12:32:22 PM  

This Looks Fun: I'd say it still depends on what kind of career move you want to make. And most "languages" are coupled with other languages. Or they have extensibility libraries.

UI/UX: You';; need a minimum of html5/css/js.

Backend/code (assuming Windows): at least C#/.NET/SQL - but from there you still want to know how to shape your projects. MVC? MVVM? Webforms? And you'll want to know what you'll be using to speak between layers. Linq? Razor? It's possible to specialize so much here that even switching design patterns in the same framework of languages takes months of adjusting.

It really is a difficult question to answer. But consider this: to get my degree, I learned SQL, MIPS, Java, and C++. That's what was on my resume. At my first job, I used VB, asp, html, javascript, and SQL. Learning a language gives you an understanding of the rules of programming. And those are fairly universal.


If it takes you "months to adjust" to figure out Linq, you're in deep, deep trouble.
 
2013-11-20 12:36:53 PM  

StRalphTheLiar: Millennium: Why are they listing jQuery as separate from JavaScript?

They also listed "iOS" and "Android" as languages.


In fairness, you can learn and use JQuery without really entering into the world of JavaScript. And you can spend years in JavaScript without ever knowing how much easier JQuery can make your job. Case in point, one of the UI guys I work with does all sorts of cool things in JQuery and literally knows no JavaScript and I didn't learn JQuery until last year. You can easily work in one of them without knowing the other. The fact that JQuery is really just a fancy outfit for JavaScript to wear means nothing to the average programmer.
 
2013-11-20 12:39:41 PM  

Shazam999: If it takes you "months to adjust" to figure out Linq, you're in deep, deep trouble.


Yeah, it might feel weird for several weeks, but it should make a lot of sense after a few days. Although Linq/Entity is a little weirder. What DID take me months was the VB/Webforms/Raw SQL to C#/MVC/Linq move. It was a lot to get all at once.
 
2013-11-20 12:40:10 PM  

InmanRoshi: Yes, that's what the  industry needs ... a proliferation of code from noobs who half as learn a scripting language that is a nightmare for other parties to debug because they don't want to give up their daily wake and bake habit.


I feel your pain, but...

Web designers are forced to learn this stuff if they want to stay in the game. And, it's not always an easy curve for some. There is bound to be some batty code in any given CMS site. Tutorial sites (like codrops) are great places to learn bits and pieces, but do very little to engage you in much more.

I have a client who wants me to rework a single-page parallax site and the HTML file is as farked up as a bowl of alphabet soup.
 
2013-11-20 12:42:10 PM  

This Looks Fun: Shazam999: If it takes you "months to adjust" to figure out Linq, you're in deep, deep trouble.

Yeah, it might feel weird for several weeks, but it should make a lot of sense after a few days. Although Linq/Entity is a little weirder. What DID take me months was the VB/Webforms/Raw SQL to C#/MVC/Linq move. It was a lot to get all at once.


Ew, you're tainted with VB.
 
2013-11-20 12:44:31 PM  

Space Station Wagon: I love when farkers shoot something down but don't offer up any information on what would be a better choice.
So if Java isn't a good place to start what is?
I need a useful language to put on my resume.


  Don't worry about being cool or bleeding edge to start out, lean towards boring and uncool.    You have to be a tradesman before you become an artist.   I would set out just learning C# and playing around in VisualStudio.   There's nothing obscure about it.     It's a well supported, longtime, all encompassing, industry standard product backed by a stable corporation with a lot of money that's going to be around for a really long time.    If nuclear winter strikes the only things that will survive are cockroaches, Keith Richards and shops that need   .NET programmers.    There a huge resource of online communities, training, walk throughs and documentation to be found.   Any issue you run into, someone's posted an identical question to it and it's been answered 108 times.    Through it you can learn Object Oriented programming basics, working inside a framework, calling methods and functions, LINQ, stored procedures, how to work around and debug in an IDE, and all the other things that encompass how to be a day to day code monkey and data janitor.  Once you have that foundation down, you can move on to more exotic and cooler stuff.
 
2013-11-20 12:44:40 PM  

Shazam999: This Looks Fun: Shazam999: If it takes you "months to adjust" to figure out Linq, you're in deep, deep trouble.

Yeah, it might feel weird for several weeks, but it should make a lot of sense after a few days. Although Linq/Entity is a little weirder. What DID take me months was the VB/Webforms/Raw SQL to C#/MVC/Linq move. It was a lot to get all at once.

Ew, you're tainted with VB.


Indeed. 8 years working professionally. 2 in vb/asp, 4 in vb.NET, the last 2 in C#.NET/MVC. It's been an interesting journey, but I'm pretty baller now.
 
2013-11-20 12:46:30 PM  

InmanRoshi: Space Station Wagon: I love when farkers shoot something down but don't offer up any information on what would be a better choice.
So if Java isn't a good place to start what is?
I need a useful language to put on my resume.

  Don't worry about being cool or bleeding edge to start out, lean towards boring and uncool.    You have to be a tradesman before you become an artist.   I would set out just learning C# and playing around in VisualStudio.   There's nothing obscure about it.     It's a well supported, longtime, all encompassing, industry standard product backed by a stable corporation with a lot of money that's going to be around for a really long time.    If nuclear winter strikes the only things that will survive are cockroaches, Keith Richards and shops that need   .NET programmers.    There a huge resource of online communities, training, walk throughs and documentation to be found.   Any issue you run into, someone's posted an identical question to it and it's been answered 108 times.    Through it you can learn Object Oriented programming basics, working inside a framework, calling methods and functions, LINQ, stored procedures, how to work around and debug in an IDE, and all the other things that encompass how to be a day to day code monkey and data janitor.  Once you have that foundation down, you can move on to more exotic and cooler stuff.


2nd. This guy/gal is on the money.
 
2013-11-20 12:46:56 PM  

Smoky Dragon Dish: Space Station Wagon: Looks like I fell for java =/= javascript, even though I read it earlier in the thread. I mainly work in security & networking, server/desktop hardware & software. I wear a lot of hats. Back in the day I used to know HTML 4.
A friend of mine is always going on about python, but I was thinking about digging into Java EE7.

If you learn Java, you'll know JavaScript.

if you learn JavaScript, you will not know Java.


Learning Java won't teach you JavaScript. Not only do the class libraries not match, they don't even work around the same paradigms. When the whole cross-marketing junk started, JavaScript took on a few extra characteristics to make it look more like Java (e.g. the "new" construct), but it did so without altering the underlying language to match, and so this only farked things up even more.
 
2013-11-20 12:53:44 PM  

Millennium: Smoky Dragon Dish: Space Station Wagon: Looks like I fell for java =/= javascript, even though I read it earlier in the thread. I mainly work in security & networking, server/desktop hardware & software. I wear a lot of hats. Back in the day I used to know HTML 4.
A friend of mine is always going on about python, but I was thinking about digging into Java EE7.

If you learn Java, you'll know JavaScript.

if you learn JavaScript, you will not know Java.

Learning Java won't teach you JavaScript. Not only do the class libraries not match, they don't even work around the same paradigms. When the whole cross-marketing junk started, JavaScript took on a few extra characteristics to make it look more like Java (e.g. the "new" construct), but it did so without altering the underlying language to match, and so this only farked things up even more.


Both are OO.  It has nothing to do with class libraries (for fark's sake, JavaScript doesn't have "class libraries", dum dum).  It has to do with the fact that JavaScript is used mostly to manipulate DOM, and thusly you don't really learn much other than making some divs appear and disappear, whereas with Java you might actually have a chance of being involved in create an object model.
 
2013-11-20 12:56:10 PM  
Author also fails to compare incomes to telecommute job availability, which I bet is inverse to his curve.
 
2013-11-20 12:57:25 PM  

Millennium: Smoky Dragon Dish: Space Station Wagon: Looks like I fell for java =/= javascript, even though I read it earlier in the thread. I mainly work in security & networking, server/desktop hardware & software. I wear a lot of hats. Back in the day I used to know HTML 4.
A friend of mine is always going on about python, but I was thinking about digging into Java EE7.

If you learn Java, you'll know JavaScript.

if you learn JavaScript, you will not know Java.

Learning Java won't teach you JavaScript. Not only do the class libraries not match, they don't even work around the same paradigms. When the whole cross-marketing junk started, JavaScript took on a few extra characteristics to make it look more like Java (e.g. the "new" construct), but it did so without altering the underlying language to match, and so this only farked things up even more.


My point is that if you're an experienced Java programmer, you can pretty much pick-up the ball and start running with JavaScript.

The opposite is not true.

I'm also assuming someone with no prior programming experience, as was stated earlier in the thread.  Besides, as I posted in the thread earlier, I had already said that JavaScript != Java.
 
2013-11-20 12:59:11 PM  

Smoky Dragon Dish: If you learn Java, you'll know JavaScript.

if you learn JavaScript, you will not know Java.


If you learn Java, and expect your JavaScript to behave the same way as your Java, you're in for a long string of bad surprises.

It's possible to use JavaScript as an elegant and powerful language; there's an entire book, JavaScript: The Good Parts, showing how. It doesn't matter much, though, because almost no one does it right -- JavaScript: The Good Parts is a very short book.

Also, FTFA:

This doesn't seem surprising, given its increasing ubiquitousness these days.

Number of work-from-home jobs requiring people to remember the word "ubiquity" instead of going to press with an ugly, awkward neologism: apparently still 0.
 
2013-11-20 01:02:12 PM  

InmanRoshi: Space Station Wagon: I love when farkers shoot something down but don't offer up any information on what would be a better choice.
So if Java isn't a good place to start what is?
I need a useful language to put on my resume.

  Don't worry about being cool or bleeding edge to start out, lean towards boring and uncool.    You have to be a tradesman before you become an artist.   I would set out just learning C# and playing around in VisualStudio.   There's nothing obscure about it.     It's a well supported, longtime, all encompassing, industry standard product backed by a stable corporation with a lot of money that's going to be around for a really long time.    If nuclear winter strikes the only things that will survive are cockroaches, Keith Richards and shops that need   .NET programmers.    There a huge resource of online communities, training, walk throughs and documentation to be found.   Any issue you run into, someone's posted an identical question to it and it's been answered 108 times.    Through it you can learn Object Oriented programming basics, working inside a framework, calling methods and functions, LINQ, stored procedures, how to work around and debug in an IDE, and all the other things that encompass how to be a day to day code monkey and data janitor.  Once you have that foundation down, you can move on to more exotic and cooler stuff.


Thanks InmanRoshi
 
2013-11-20 01:03:38 PM  

jfarkinB: Smoky Dragon Dish: If you learn Java, you'll know JavaScript.

if you learn JavaScript, you will not know Java.

If you learn Java, and expect your JavaScript to behave the same way as your Java, you're in for a long string of bad surprises.


I never said that it would.  It was an overly-simplified statement, directed at someone without any programming experiece, without getting into significant detail.  But, I dig it.
 
2013-11-20 01:05:10 PM  

Shazam999: Both are OO.  It has nothing to do with class libraries (for fark's sake, JavaScript doesn't have "class libraries", dum dum).  It has to do with the fact that JavaScript is used mostly to manipulate DOM, and thusly you don't really learn much other than making some divs appear and disappear, whereas with Java you might actually have a chance of being involved in create an object model.


You managed to pack a lot of wrong into three short sentences.
 
2013-11-20 01:05:18 PM  

Shazam999: Both are OO.


Javascript isn't object oriented.
 
2013-11-20 01:13:55 PM  
imgs.xkcd.com
 
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