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(The New Yorker)   While the press circle jerks about who can first report on the death of liberalism and the glorious coming thousand year reign of conservatism, people are getting insured   (newyorker.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, obamacare, Americans, Medi-Cal, insurance agents  
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2341 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Nov 2013 at 10:15 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-20 12:42:41 PM  

coyo: Tricky Chicken: coyo: Tricky Chicken: Dog Welder:.

The United States has the resources; that is not a problem. We have the manpower, though as we underfund education, the knowhow could be slipping. Yes, we do need to educate far more doctors.

If you truly supported single payer, you would have suggested it and suggested how to get there. Instead you cheer and crow that people in red states are not going to get what they need to be healthy but instead the austerity regiment in those states can remain intact.

Whether or not the ACA was engineered to do so, it may force single payer in order to cover people.


ACA is now law and will preclude single payer until it fails.  ACA could be fixed and if it is, we will be saddled with a bloated inefficient beaurocracy that will cost us dearly and will never be equitable.  We need it to fail and to fail in a huge flaming mess.  Unfortunately, since the ACA is an entirely Democrat screw up, the republicans will replace it with the same old crap we used to have.
 
2013-11-20 12:43:08 PM  

FarkedOver: un4gvn666: I'm sure striking workers that have been fired from their jobs thanks to business friendly state laws would totally agree with you. Like, totally.

You can thank liberal capitulation and compromise for the eroding of labor rights.

Please see the Employee Free Choice Act that Obama "promised" to pass.  Never happened.  Illegal strikes are the way to go any way, the tactic has worked time and time again.


For who? Citation needed.
 
2013-11-20 12:43:43 PM  

FarkedOver: More recently in Seattle a Socialist won a seat on city council. She has advocated Boeing workers to seize the factory and equipment if Boeing moves out of washington..... I like this lady!


What better way to celebrate losing your job than getting yourself arrested.  That's real change.
 
2013-11-20 12:43:45 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: There's a reason that Wildcat strikes don't happen anymore.

Because it's bad for business and the state will send in their goons to break it up.  Kind of like FDR did.

Because it's illegal, and there are legal ways and methods to effect change. How is it that you're not getting it yet?


It's illegal because it was effective.
 
2013-11-20 12:46:02 PM  

UberDave: I wonder what 1000 year reign of teabag-like conservatism would look like...


[s24.postimg.org image 850x353]


Like a good post-apocalyptic video game?
 
2013-11-20 12:46:11 PM  

FarkedOver: I'm a Marxist.


1) Any chance you could link us to a single source for all your definitions of liberal, Democrat, socialist, communist and Marxist?

2) Are you under 20 years of age?
 
2013-11-20 12:47:00 PM  

Felgraf: I'm sorry, do you *live* in Seattle? Your fark profile implies you don't.


You understand that Marxism is an international movement.

Did you donate money to her campaign?

Yes.

And really, what the fark is she going to do? She'll just be 'codifying laws into action', which, as we know, isn't REAL change. So you've told us.

I believe in laws and government.  I just would prefer we had laws that were pro-worker, not pro-business.  I would prefer a proletarian government and not a bourgeoisie government.  The laws are written and enforced by a class with a vested interest in keeping working people down.  When the laws are written and enforced by the proletarian then I will be on your side and how you all view the laws.

/I am also glad she won, however.

Cool.
 
2013-11-20 12:48:50 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: lease see the Employee Free Choice Act that Obama "promised" to pass.  Never happened.  Illegal strikes are the way to go any way, the tactic has worked time and time again.

Tell that to the air traffic controllers.

And it wasn't liberals who failed to pass the EFCA. It was the GOP. You know, Conservatives?

The GOP is not conservative, It is radical.


The GOP's not radical for the 1850s. It's neo-confederate all the way. Just that the neo-slavery will be Walmart style wageslavery. Let's conserve our 1850s southern way of life.
 
2013-11-20 12:51:37 PM  

FarkedOver: Felgraf: I'm sorry, do you *live* in Seattle? Your fark profile implies you don't.

You understand that Marxism is an international movement.

Did you donate money to her campaign?

Yes.

And really, what the fark is she going to do? She'll just be 'codifying laws into action', which, as we know, isn't REAL change. So you've told us.

I believe in laws and government.  I just would prefer we had laws that were pro-worker, not pro-business.  I would prefer a proletarian government and not a bourgeoisie government.  The laws are written and enforced by a class with a vested interest in keeping working people down.  When the laws are written and enforced by the proletarian then I will be on your side and how you all view the laws.

/I am also glad she won, however.

Cool.


They want laws that are pro-business. You want laws that are pro-workers. Cant we just settle on laws that are pro-science?
 
2013-11-20 12:56:27 PM  

tbeatty: People are getting excited about a total enrollment of 90,000 people in California?  Really?  That's about as many sneak across the border.

Let's see, there's 40 million people in California.  90 thousand signed up.  That's about 0.2%.  So 99.8% of the people of California don't have Obamacare.  And that's a "working state."


This is what conservatards actually believe.
 
2013-11-20 01:02:06 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: lease see the Employee Free Choice Act that Obama "promised" to pass.  Never happened.  Illegal strikes are the way to go any way, the tactic has worked time and time again.

Tell that to the air traffic controllers.

And it wasn't liberals who failed to pass the EFCA. It was the GOP. You know, Conservatives?

The GOP is not conservative, It is radical.


The two aren't mutually exclusive. "Radical" in a political context usually means that you want sweeping changes and are willing to utilize what others might consider some fairly extreme tactics; this stands in opposition to "moderate", where you want incremental changes and are mostly willing to work within the existing system. You could apply either "radical" or "moderate" to anyone on the political spectrum, though I suppose "Radical Centrist" might be a bit misleading.
 
2013-11-20 01:04:02 PM  

FarkedOver: Liberalism is nothing but feel good politics.


Spoken by someone who thinks waving the flag and saying "GOD BLESS AMERICA~!" will fix all of our nation's problems.
 
2013-11-20 01:04:46 PM  
So what the subby is saying is that, in fact, States do a much better job administrating than the Federal Government does...  is that right?  The States are much more efficient and better suited to govern than the Federal Government?  The Federal Government should protect borders, establish trade guidelines with other countries, issue currency and that's about it?  Most things are obviously better handled at a State and even more local level?  More efficient, eh?  Better?

Is that what I'm hearing?
 
2013-11-20 01:06:28 PM  

cman: FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: Who votes for the lesser of two evils? Not me, certainly. I vote for people who support a majority of my views. And they write things like the ACA and the Credit CARD act. You know, actual change.

I didn't know the Heritage Foundation was running for anything this year.

You're not supposed to talk about that


You mean like Fight Club?
 
2013-11-20 01:07:26 PM  
www.learnnc.org

pictures.replayphotos.com
Look everyone I'm a Lib!!
 
2013-11-20 01:08:12 PM  

jltthorson: UberDave: I wonder what 1000 year reign of teabag-like conservatism would look like...


[s24.postimg.org image 850x353]

You mean like Democrat Detroit now.


It always makes me lol that conservatives have exactly two examples of poor liberal management: Detroit, and Chicago. They conveniently leave off every single other major city in the US, almost all of which are run by Democrats, and most of which are doing fine, and certainly better than most conservative areas.
 
2013-11-20 01:09:32 PM  
You understand that Marxism is an international movement.
Yes. So are a lot of organizations that call themselves 'liberal'.   Or, at least, more wide-spread than the local level.

For instance, the pastor at the church I grew up in (In Chapel Hill, North Carolina. UCC is... a very left-wing church). Who is one of those who's been arrested protesting the *insanity* that's going on in the NC state legislature. Who proudly calls herself a liberal.

Who is, apparently, merely engaging in 'feel good' politics.
 
2013-11-20 01:10:04 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Pretty soon the "liberal media" will find some other thing to obsess on, and we can get an idea how well the ACA is actually working.


Thanksgiving deals and Black Friday and Cyber Monday will dominate the news cycle.

What's the over/under on how many people get trampled when Wal-mart or other stores open their doors on Thanksgiving?
 
2013-11-20 01:13:00 PM  

FarkedOver: This also brings me back to my point of liberalism being feel good politics.  You vote on something that is right and just, great. In actuality you really didn't do all that farking much other than say you want change.


You mean other than codifying into law and thus, making it a violation of said law if not followed?

Maybe you need to look at this before you answer first, k? Hey, I'm just a bill.
 
2013-11-20 01:13:39 PM  

meat0918: Lionel Mandrake: Pretty soon the "liberal media" will find some other thing to obsess on, and we can get an idea how well the ACA is actually working.

Thanksgiving deals and Black Friday and Cyber Monday will dominate the news cycle.

What's the over/under on how many people get trampled when Wal-mart or other stores open their doors on Thanksgiving?


Bonus points if they blame it on Benghazicare.
 
2013-11-20 01:14:14 PM  

FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: If you were born free, why do we need a Constitution guaranteeing certain rights?

It sad that you think that all that stands between you and bondage is a piece of parchment.


Tell that to Nelson Mandela.
 
2013-11-20 01:16:37 PM  

FarkedOver: Rhino_man: ... so what the fark IS your "thing?"

I'm a Marxist.

cameroncrazy1984: So you don't vote and you don't protest. What is this "real action" you are taking?

I do protest.  I just think Occupy was more of an anarchist movement, I don't want to get into that right now because there are certain anarchists here that will say it was RUINED because of socialists and communists (not true, it's just their go to excuse).  I believe in protests and I believe in agitation at the work place and militant unionization.  I believe in running anti-capitalist candidates.


FWIW, I highly recommend Rudolf Rocker's Nationalism and Culture. In the first chapter he demolishes the quasi-religious Marxist belief in economics as the sole driver of history. A quick tour of history shows just how easy falsifiable that axiom is. I recommend giving it a read if you insist on calling yourself a Marxist in the 21st century.
 
2013-11-20 01:17:21 PM  

Rwa2play: Spoken by someone who thinks waving the flag and saying "GOD BLESS AMERICA~!" will fix all of our nation's problems.


Here's a guy that didn't read the thread.
 
2013-11-20 01:18:17 PM  
I just want to say. I spent most of the 1990s teaching English in Taiwan and Japan. I got fabulous national socialized healthcare in both countries. Both countries are unabashedly capitalist and properous and OMG healthy in spite of socialized medicine.
 
2013-11-20 01:19:02 PM  

FarkedOver: Rhino_man: ... so what the fark IS your "thing?"

I'm a Marxist.

cameroncrazy1984: So you don't vote and you don't protest. What is this "real action" you are taking?

I do protest.  I just think Occupy was more of an anarchist movement,


So OWS was "anarchist" but the TP's "patriotic"?  Is that what you're insinuating here?

FarkedOver: Rwa2play: Spoken by someone who thinks waving the flag and saying "GOD BLESS AMERICA~!" will fix all of our nation's problems.

Here's a guy that didn't read the thread.


Evasion and projection noted.
 
2013-11-20 01:23:58 PM  

Rwa2play: So OWS was "anarchist" but the TP's "patriotic"? Is that what you're insinuating here?


You might want to read the thread. FarkedOver deviates from the script you're following.
 
2013-11-20 01:24:00 PM  

Rwa2play: FarkedOver: Rhino_man: ... so what the fark IS your "thing?"

I'm a Marxist.

cameroncrazy1984: So you don't vote and you don't protest. What is this "real action" you are taking?

I do protest.  I just think Occupy was more of an anarchist movement,

So OWS was "anarchist" but the TP's "patriotic"?  Is that what you're insinuating here?

FarkedOver: Rwa2play: Spoken by someone who thinks waving the flag and saying "GOD BLESS AMERICA~!" will fix all of our nation's problems.

Here's a guy that didn't read the thread.

Evasion and projection noted.


I'm a farking Marxist you dolt.  I don't support any form of conservatism.  JEEEESUS
 
2013-11-20 01:25:06 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Rwa2play: So OWS was "anarchist" but the TP's "patriotic"? Is that what you're insinuating here?

You might want to read the thread. FarkedOver deviates from the script you're following.


Nah, I'm just enjoying his feeble attempts to try and sugarcoat one side of the argument while demonizing the other.
 
2013-11-20 01:25:11 PM  

DeArmondVI: FarkedOver: Rhino_man: ... so what the fark IS your "thing?"

I'm a Marxist.

cameroncrazy1984: So you don't vote and you don't protest. What is this "real action" you are taking?

I do protest.  I just think Occupy was more of an anarchist movement, I don't want to get into that right now because there are certain anarchists here that will say it was RUINED because of socialists and communists (not true, it's just their go to excuse).  I believe in protests and I believe in agitation at the work place and militant unionization.  I believe in running anti-capitalist candidates.

FWIW, I highly recommend Rudolf Rocker's Nationalism and Culture. In the first chapter he demolishes the quasi-religious Marxist belief in economics as the sole driver of history. A quick tour of history shows just how easy falsifiable that axiom is. I recommend giving it a read if you insist on calling yourself a Marxist in the 21st century.


He's an anarcho-syndicalist, of course he has an axe to grind with Marx.  Though I do love reading anarchists positions on Marx.
 
2013-11-20 01:26:00 PM  

FarkedOver: I'm a farking Marxist you dolt.  I don't support any form of conservatism.  JEEEESUS


Oh, sorry couldn't tell the two dead ideologies apart
 
2013-11-20 01:29:24 PM  

Rwa2play: FarkedOver: I'm a farking Marxist you dolt.  I don't support any form of conservatism.  JEEEESUS

Oh, sorry couldn't tell the two dead ideologies apart


Interesting take you have there.
 
2013-11-20 01:33:15 PM  

FarkedOver: Rwa2play: FarkedOver: I'm a farking Marxist you dolt.  I don't support any form of conservatism.  JEEEESUS

Oh, sorry couldn't tell the two dead ideologies apart

Interesting take you have there.


If it makes you feel any better many Liberals see anyone who doesn't believe what they do as Conservative
 
2013-11-20 01:33:28 PM  

FarkedOver: Rwa2play: FarkedOver: I'm a farking Marxist you dolt.  I don't support any form of conservatism.  JEEEESUS

Oh, sorry couldn't tell the two dead ideologies apart

Interesting take you have there.


Let's just say I have a pretty low tolerance for ideologies that fail to take human nature into account.  Libertarianism is one ideology I have no farking time for nor do I care for their arguments.
 
2013-11-20 01:47:18 PM  
I pay $900 a month to cover my wife and daughter through my work plan. On a lark, I had my wife check out healthcare.gov just to see the options. Basically they could sign up for the PLATINUM plan with 0 deductibles for $500/month. My current plan has huge deductibles to go with the huge premiums. Needless to say, we will be switching them over ASAP.

So....

Thanks, Obama
 
2013-11-20 01:52:57 PM  

HaywoodJablonski: I pay $900 a month to cover my wife and daughter through my work plan. On a lark, I had my wife check out healthcare.gov just to see the options. Basically they could sign up for the PLATINUM plan with 0 deductibles for $500/month. My current plan has huge deductibles to go with the huge premiums. Needless to say, we will be switching them over ASAP.

So....

Thanks, Obama


Off topic, but do you still hang out with Gene Massethski?
 
2013-11-20 01:54:23 PM  

Rwa2play: Let's just say I have a pretty low tolerance for ideologies that fail to take human nature into account. Libertarianism is one ideology I have no farking time for nor do I care for their arguments.


Depends on what you define as human nature and which each respective ideology says about it.....
 
2013-11-20 01:55:06 PM  

UberDave: I wonder what 1000 year reign of teabag-like conservatism would look like...


[s24.postimg.org image 850x353]


That's not too far from what Pioneer Square looks like today.  Sure, the scenery is spiffier today, but the foreground is pretty spot on.
 
2013-11-20 01:58:53 PM  

cman: FarkedOver: Rwa2play: FarkedOver: I'm a farking Marxist you dolt.  I don't support any form of conservatism.  JEEEESUS

Oh, sorry couldn't tell the two dead ideologies apart

Interesting take you have there.

If it makes you feel any better many Liberals see anyone who doesn't believe what they do as Conservative


I know.  I've been called a Fark IndependentTM more times than I can remember.
 
2013-11-20 01:59:18 PM  

FarkedOver: Rwa2play: Let's just say I have a pretty low tolerance for ideologies that fail to take human nature into account. Libertarianism is one ideology I have no farking time for nor do I care for their arguments.

Depends on what you define as human nature and which each respective ideology says about it.....


Well it seems that either Libertarianism says nothing about it or I forgot the passage regarding human nature.  It seems that whenever Libertarianism says one thing, reality biatch-slaps it and is stunned to find out it can't doing anything to counter the biatch slap.
 
2013-11-20 02:03:13 PM  

skylabdown: So what the subby is saying is that, in fact, States do a much better job administrating than the Federal Government does...  is that right?  The States are much more efficient and better suited to govern than the Federal Government?  The Federal Government should protect borders, establish trade guidelines with other countries, issue currency and that's about it?  Most things are obviously better handled at a State and even more local level?  More efficient, eh?  Better?

Is that what I'm hearing?


No.  What you're hearing is that the Federal government farked up this one thing, and that the states most likely to shout "STATES RIGHTS" are the ones suffering from it, because they failed to exercise those rights when they had the chance.

TL,DR:  Republicans in state-level office are hypocrites, and it shows.
 
2013-11-20 02:12:30 PM  

Rwa2play: Well it seems that either Libertarianism says nothing about it or I forgot the passage regarding human nature. It seems that whenever Libertarianism says one thing, reality biatch-slaps it and is stunned to find out it can't doing anything to counter the biatch slap.


I think lots of Libertarians believe in Praxeology.... which was pioneered by a bunch of fascist sympathizers and flat out racists.  (i.e. Mises and Rothbard).
 
2013-11-20 02:13:27 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: mrshowrules: SlothB77: Liberalism won't die.  But Obamacare will.

Wanna bet?

I, too, will take that bet.


Are you trying for a sucker bet because there is no such thing officially known as "Obamacare" so it's already not-alive?
 
2013-11-20 02:19:07 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: Are you trying for a sucker bet because there is no such thing officially known as "Obamacare" so it's already not-alive?


Great.  Zombie health care.

www.theblaze.com

Thanks ZOmbama.
 
2013-11-20 02:19:30 PM  

FarkedOver: Rwa2play: Well it seems that either Libertarianism says nothing about it or I forgot the passage regarding human nature. It seems that whenever Libertarianism says one thing, reality biatch-slaps it and is stunned to find out it can't doing anything to counter the biatch slap.

I think lots of Libertarians believe in Praxeology.... which was pioneered by a bunch of fascist sympathizers and flat out racists.  (i.e. Mises and Rothbard).


/looks up Praxeology

So...is it wrong for me to surmise that Praxeology was trying to predict human action based on a set of circumstances?  Because if that's the case, we would've been farked as a culture had we followed through with such a thing. :)
 
2013-11-20 02:20:04 PM  

Garet Garrett: Um, sure.  So far the anecdotal evidence that's been put out about enrollments (and that's all that's been made available, a subject I'll address shortly), those that have managed to enroll in private plans (not the expanded Medicaid) have been among the "neediest" people - people with cancer, chronic illnesses, etc.  Heavy users of the system.  In order to maintain some sort of financial balance, for each of them, O'care needs about 20 people whose premiums exceed their medical expenses - basically, young healthy men (sorry ladies, you're expensive at any age, NTTAWWT).


While we haven't selected a plan yet (narrowed it down to eight), my son (age 26 and healthy) has established an account, and we expect to select the plan in the next week.  We expect to save around $250 a month (not including subsidy) over his current COBRA.  Am currently working on making sure every twenty something kid he knows that doesn't have insurance knows they need to get moving on it.  And, no, not every 22-year-old is covered by their parents' insurance (thanks ACA!).  Kind of depends upon the family situation.
 
2013-11-20 02:21:35 PM  
I'm about as socially liberal as it's possible to be but you communists are insane....

The people who laud unions and workers rights have never in their entire life actually encountered an actual union or actual worker.  They are usually 20 something, white, college educated and so naive that they make most 5 year old children look like cynical bastards.  Well that or they are already bleeding their employer dry by sitting on their asses whining about the temperature of the coffee in the break room when their break ended 20 minutes ago and planning to strike over a 40 cent pay raise meanwhile thinking nothing about missing 2 or 3 days of work a month.

My employees get paid well over the median income in the area, work indoors in a clean well lit and temperature controlled environment.  They have excellent benefits and I'm a very easy going boss. As long as a request doesn't hurt my productivity I'm happy to grant it and if there is a good reason I'll take a hit in productivity to help them out because happy workers are productive workers and I'm a human being with a heart.  I work well over 40 hours a week and most of the extra time is making up for time lost dealing with stupid complaints and problems created by these people.  They are good honest people and most of them are hard workers, the problem is that even the best person in the world can turn into a complete asshole where there are zero repercussions for their actions.  The union has more money to take grievances to arbitration than the company due to the fact that their union represents huge numbers of employees across many industries so there basically are no repercussions short of the plant closing up and moving to china once it becomes too expensive to operate in North America.
 
2013-11-20 02:22:05 PM  

FarkedOver: Read up on his views of capitalism.  They're not that mainstream.  He had rather radical views.  Liberals typically don't like glorify MLK's anti-capitalist stance.


Strawman much?

Pray tell us what else do you know about "liberals?"
 
2013-11-20 02:23:19 PM  

Egoy3k: The people who laud unions and workers rights have never in their entire life actually encountered an actual union or actual worker.


Hurr unions bad, unorganized labor GOOD.
\
 
2013-11-20 02:24:08 PM  

Rwa2play: FarkedOver: Rwa2play: Well it seems that either Libertarianism says nothing about it or I forgot the passage regarding human nature. It seems that whenever Libertarianism says one thing, reality biatch-slaps it and is stunned to find out it can't doing anything to counter the biatch slap.

I think lots of Libertarians believe in Praxeology.... which was pioneered by a bunch of fascist sympathizers and flat out racists.  (i.e. Mises and Rothbard).

/looks up Praxeology

So...is it wrong for me to surmise that Praxeology was trying to predict human action based on a set of circumstances?  Because if that's the case, we would've been farked as a culture had we followed through with such a thing. :)


It's pseudo-science more or less.  They attempt to apply it to economics for the most part and in doing so make some pretty vile judgements on different races.

Ahhh the austrian school of economics a bunch of proto-fascists
 
2013-11-20 02:26:02 PM  
Insurance is theft.
 
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