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(The New Yorker)   While the press circle jerks about who can first report on the death of liberalism and the glorious coming thousand year reign of conservatism, people are getting insured   (newyorker.com) divider line 415
    More: Obvious, obamacare, Americans, Medi-Cal, insurance agents  
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2336 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Nov 2013 at 10:15 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-20 12:17:49 PM

FarkedOver: Serious Black: I'm sure all the people who are getting droned to death in Pakistan are really changing because of our actions.

That's what happens when all you have to choose from are two corporate parties.  People die in the name of profits.  Are we surprised by this?


Certainly if you just occupy wall street more and don't vote, it'll stop!
 
2013-11-20 12:18:46 PM

FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: Who votes for the lesser of two evils? Not me, certainly. I vote for people who support a majority of my views. And they write things like the ACA and the Credit CARD act. You know, actual change.

I didn't know the Heritage Foundation was running for anything this year.


You're not supposed to talk about that
 
2013-11-20 12:18:56 PM

cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: Serious Black: I'm sure all the people who are getting droned to death in Pakistan are really changing because of our actions.

That's what happens when all you have to choose from are two corporate parties.  People die in the name of profits.  Are we surprised by this?

Certainly if you just occupy wall street more and don't vote, it'll stop!


That's more of an anarchist tactic and not my thing.  I support it though.
 
2013-11-20 12:19:22 PM

Serious Black: Garet Garrett:

 Which means the plans being offered are going to go upside down very, very quickly....


Say Fellas, have you heard about Reinsurance Fees?
 
2013-11-20 12:19:30 PM

FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: Serious Black: I'm sure all the people who are getting droned to death in Pakistan are really changing because of our actions.

That's what happens when all you have to choose from are two corporate parties.  People die in the name of profits.  Are we surprised by this?

Certainly if you just occupy wall street more and don't vote, it'll stop!

That's more of an anarchist tactic and not my thing.  I support it though.


... so what the fark IS your "thing?"
 
2013-11-20 12:19:33 PM

FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: Who votes for the lesser of two evils? Not me, certainly. I vote for people who support a majority of my views. And they write things like the ACA and the Credit CARD act. You know, actual change.

I didn't know the Heritage Foundation was running for anything this year.


The individual mandate was the Heritage Foundation's idea. Most of the rest of it was not. Are you really expecting me to concede to you a point you have not earned?
 
2013-11-20 12:20:08 PM

FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: Serious Black: I'm sure all the people who are getting droned to death in Pakistan are really changing because of our actions.

That's what happens when all you have to choose from are two corporate parties.  People die in the name of profits.  Are we surprised by this?

Certainly if you just occupy wall street more and don't vote, it'll stop!

That's more of an anarchist tactic and not my thing.  I support it though.


So you don't vote and you don't protest. What is this "real action" you are taking?
 
2013-11-20 12:20:16 PM

RangerTaylor: FarkedOver: RangerTaylor: cameroncrazy1984, I love you like a brother, seeing as you are another long-suffering Buffalo fan, but come on man, stop feeding the troll.

How am I trolling?  My position isn't ridiculous or far fetched.  Liberals think voting is the end all and be all.  Real leftists know that real change comes from action.

Liberals will just codify into law what leftists fought for.  It's not an insane position or a troll position just because it is contrary to your opinion.

Thank you!

/packs up briefcase


Can't even tell me why or how I am trolling and leaves.  There is some refreshing intellectual honesty there!
 
2013-11-20 12:20:59 PM

tbeatty: People are getting excited about a total enrollment of 90,000 people in California?  Really?  That's about as many sneak across the border.

Let's see, there's 40 million people in California.  90 thousand signed up.  That's about 0.2%.  So 99.8% of the people of California don't have Obamacare.  And that's a "working state."


Urine idiot. I have Obamacare in that I have good insurance through my employer. Obamacare is only insurance reform to help people who don't have emplyer paid healthcare to get affordable healthcare.
 
2013-11-20 12:22:02 PM

FarkedOver: Serious Black: I'm sure all the people who are getting droned to death in Pakistan are really changing because of our actions.

That's what happens when all you have to choose from are two corporate parties.  People die in the name of profits.  Are we surprised by this?


My point was that the kind of actions you seem to be advocating tend to have either no impact or cause detrimental changes. People don't respond well to intimidation and manipulation. People respond well when they are treated like dignified human beings and they are persuaded in a positive manner.
 
2013-11-20 12:22:10 PM

Rhino_man: The way that those organizations are structured is centered around a piece of parchment, which was written largely to the standards proposed by Thomas Jefferson James Madison and Alexander Hamilton


FTFY
 
2013-11-20 12:22:11 PM

InmanRoshi: SlothB77: Liberalism won't die.  But Obamacare will.

So Republicans are going to run on stripping away privately purchased insurance from hundreds of thousands of Americas, re-implementing pre-existing condition clauses, and putting lifetime coverage caps on children with cancer?


Carrying a Bible and draped in the flag, yes.
 
2013-11-20 12:22:46 PM
Friggin lieberal mainstream MSM media.
 
2013-11-20 12:23:46 PM

Rhino_man: ... so what the fark IS your "thing?"


I'm a Marxist.

cameroncrazy1984: So you don't vote and you don't protest. What is this "real action" you are taking?


I do protest.  I just think Occupy was more of an anarchist movement, I don't want to get into that right now because there are certain anarchists here that will say it was RUINED because of socialists and communists (not true, it's just their go to excuse).  I believe in protests and I believe in agitation at the work place and militant unionization.  I believe in running anti-capitalist candidates.
 
2013-11-20 12:24:50 PM

FarkedOver: I do protest.  I just think Occupy was more of an anarchist movement, I don't want to get into that right now because there are certain anarchists here that will say it was RUINED because of socialists and communists (not true, it's just their go to excuse).  I believe in protests and I believe in agitation at the work place and militant unionization.  I believe in running anti-capitalist candidates.


And what has changed so far with all of this "real action" that you're doing, while the rest of us were voting for liberals who are actually codifying and enacting it?
 
Ant
2013-11-20 12:24:56 PM

SlothB77: Liberalism won't die.  But Obamacare will.


To be replaced by single payer or a national health service.
 
2013-11-20 12:25:28 PM

FarkedOver: Rhino_man: He's the one who pushed for a Bill of Rights in the first place. The Civil Rights movement of the 50s and 60s wanted that Bill of Rights extended to cover everyone regardless of color, but that doesn't mean that Jefferson wasn't deeply involved in its creation.

He pushed for a bill of rights for rich white men.  Great, what a visionary and a real big departure from the Magna Carta.  You want someone that really wanted change? Check out this mofo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babeuf.


And how many women were in his Society of Equals?
Answer:  zero.  So much for your big, bad social revolutionary.
 
2013-11-20 12:26:39 PM

FarkedOver: Kevin72: What? What policy has the GOP ever initiated besides the Iraq war? I will tell you. It would be Eienhower's interstate highway initiative.

Why do I give a shiat about what the GOP did or didn't do? This is not relevant.


Oh, I don't know. Maybe to do some critical analysis of facts and to process some enlightened output about improving society. Instead of barfing up some toxin you heard on the radio like liberalism is all about feelgood politics and then feeling all brainy and feelgood about repeating some platitude.
 
2013-11-20 12:26:43 PM

cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: I do protest.  I just think Occupy was more of an anarchist movement, I don't want to get into that right now because there are certain anarchists here that will say it was RUINED because of socialists and communists (not true, it's just their go to excuse).  I believe in protests and I believe in agitation at the work place and militant unionization.  I believe in running anti-capitalist candidates.

And what has changed so far with all of this "real action" that you're doing, while the rest of us were voting for liberals who are actually codifying and enacting it?


Well historically speaking? weekends, the 40 hour workweek, paid sick days and holidays.... pretty much any benefit you enjoy at work, thank anticapitalist agitators like communists socialists and anarchists.

More recently in Seattle a Socialist won a seat on city council.  She has advocated Boeing workers to seize the factory and equipment if Boeing moves out of washington..... I like this lady!
 
2013-11-20 12:26:52 PM

FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: Who votes for the lesser of two evils? Not me, certainly. I vote for people who support a majority of my views. And they write things like the ACA and the Credit CARD act. You know, actual change.

I didn't know the Heritage Foundation was running for anything this year.


What a load of bullshiat. HF has forsaken that bill for the sake of opposing Obama. Attributing the healthcare law to them is only useful for pointing out just how reactionary and stupid modern Republicans have become. Acting like Obama and Democrats don't get any credit for passing that bill into law just because "they didn't think of it first!" is childish.
 
2013-11-20 12:27:57 PM

FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: I do protest.  I just think Occupy was more of an anarchist movement, I don't want to get into that right now because there are certain anarchists here that will say it was RUINED because of socialists and communists (not true, it's just their go to excuse).  I believe in protests and I believe in agitation at the work place and militant unionization.  I believe in running anti-capitalist candidates.

And what has changed so far with all of this "real action" that you're doing, while the rest of us were voting for liberals who are actually codifying and enacting it?

Well historically speaking? weekends, the 40 hour workweek, paid sick days and holidays.... pretty much any benefit you enjoy at work, thank anticapitalist agitators like communists socialists and anarchists labor unions and their liberal backers in government.

More recently in Seattle a Socialist won a seat on city council.  She has advocated Boeing workers to seize the factory and equipment if Boeing moves out of washington..... I like this lady!


Fixed that for you.
 
2013-11-20 12:29:06 PM

FarkedOver: Well historically speaking? weekends, the 40 hour workweek, paid sick days and holidays.... pretty much any benefit you enjoy at work, thank anticapitalist agitators like communists socialists and anarchists.


Oh? Who were the agitators who passed these into law?
 
2013-11-20 12:29:54 PM

un4gvn666: What a load of bullshiat. HF has forsaken that bill for the sake of opposing Obama. Attributing the healthcare law to them is only useful for pointing out just how reactionary and stupid modern Republicans have become. Acting like Obama and Democrats don't get any credit for passing that bill into law just because "they didn't think of it first!" is childish.


The is ultimatly a piece of shiat law.  Single-payer is where we need to be, not some hybrid socialist/free market solution.  Profits do not belong in the health care industry.
 
2013-11-20 12:30:34 PM

cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: Well historically speaking? weekends, the 40 hour workweek, paid sick days and holidays.... pretty much any benefit you enjoy at work, thank anticapitalist agitators like communists socialists and anarchists.

Oh? Who were the agitators who passed these into law?


It's not the law that makes companies comply, it's the threat of strike. Make no mistake about it.
 
2013-11-20 12:31:16 PM

FarkedOver: Rhino_man: ... so what the fark IS your "thing?"

I'm a Marxist.

cameroncrazy1984: So you don't vote and you don't protest. What is this "real action" you are taking?

I do protest.  I just think Occupy was more of an anarchist movement, I don't want to get into that right now because there are certain anarchists here that will say it was RUINED because of socialists and communists (not true, it's just their go to excuse).  I believe in protests and I believe in agitation at the work place and militant unionization.  I believe in running anti-capitalist candidates.


Occupy was ruined by a coordinated and unconstitutional crackdown by the Feds. But thank you for playing.
 
2013-11-20 12:31:24 PM

Rhino_man: FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: I do protest.  I just think Occupy was more of an anarchist movement, I don't want to get into that right now because there are certain anarchists here that will say it was RUINED because of socialists and communists (not true, it's just their go to excuse).  I believe in protests and I believe in agitation at the work place and militant unionization.  I believe in running anti-capitalist candidates.

And what has changed so far with all of this "real action" that you're doing, while the rest of us were voting for liberals who are actually codifying and enacting it?

Well historically speaking? weekends, the 40 hour workweek, paid sick days and holidays.... pretty much any benefit you enjoy at work, thank anticapitalist agitators like communists socialists and anarchists labor unions and their liberal backers in government.

More recently in Seattle a Socialist won a seat on city council.  She has advocated Boeing workers to seize the factory and equipment if Boeing moves out of washington..... I like this lady!

Fixed that for you.


The Haymarket Affair was a bunch of liberals as are IWW members past and present.  Good to know.
 
2013-11-20 12:31:28 PM

FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: Well historically speaking? weekends, the 40 hour workweek, paid sick days and holidays.... pretty much any benefit you enjoy at work, thank anticapitalist agitators like communists socialists and anarchists.

Oh? Who were the agitators who passed these into law?

It's not the law that makes companies comply, it's the threat of strike. Make no mistake about it.


What makes a strike legal?
 
2013-11-20 12:32:13 PM

FarkedOver: RangerTaylor: cameroncrazy1984, I love you like a brother, seeing as you are another long-suffering Buffalo fan, but come on man, stop feeding the troll.

How am I trolling?  My position isn't ridiculous or far fetched.  Liberals think voting is the end all and be all.  Real leftists know that real change comes from action.

Liberals will just codify into law what leftists fought for.  It's not an insane position or a troll position just because it is contrary to your opinion.


"Codify into laws" is not an action? How much good do those "changes" do, and how long will they last, if they're not codified in some fashion? What were the leftists fighting for, if not to get their changes codified into law?
 
2013-11-20 12:32:46 PM

FarkedOver: un4gvn666: What a load of bullshiat. HF has forsaken that bill for the sake of opposing Obama. Attributing the healthcare law to them is only useful for pointing out just how reactionary and stupid modern Republicans have become. Acting like Obama and Democrats don't get any credit for passing that bill into law just because "they didn't think of it first!" is childish.

The is ultimatly a piece of shiat law.  Single-payer is where we need to be, not some hybrid socialist/free market solution.  Profits do not belong in the health care industry.


And as long as conservatives hold sway over our government, you wishing for it to be that way is worth a bucket of warm piss.

You know what WILL eventually get single-payer passed into law? More liberals in government.
 
2013-11-20 12:32:55 PM

cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: Well historically speaking? weekends, the 40 hour workweek, paid sick days and holidays.... pretty much any benefit you enjoy at work, thank anticapitalist agitators like communists socialists and anarchists.

Oh? Who were the agitators who passed these into law?

It's not the law that makes companies comply, it's the threat of strike. Make no mistake about it.

What makes a strike legal?


The most effective strikes aren't.  They are called Wildcat strikes.  This tactic was used multiple times in the 30s.  Read the book Teamster Rebellion, it's fascinating.
 
2013-11-20 12:33:17 PM

Tricky Chicken: coyo: Tricky Chicken: Dog Welder: Wait, do you mean to tell me that states that actively tried to work with the law and expand the Medicare coverage are seeing massive enrollments, and states where the governors and state legislatures are actively trying to sabotage the law the people are having issues?  Color me shocked.

/"shocked" as a color is very similar to chartreuse.

Yes, the republican governors were particularly brilliant weren't they?  Expand medicare and run your own exchange and shoulder some of the expense, or just let the federal government handle their own law themselves and not risk taking on any of the expense.  Tough choice.

The smart ones are letting the Feds take all the risk.  As the costs skyrocket, their budgets won't take a hit.  Been nice knowing ya California!

I guess I see that and translate it to "Yay, people are going to suffer and die. I have mine and my team is going to win!"

Wow, that is what you got?  I was going for more of a 'this was your law, you wanted it, you pay for it and run it.  We don't think we can afford it.'  But I've been pretty consistent with my support of single payer, so which side would that be?  Because that side isn't going to win anytime soon.  At least not until ACA gets blown up (more terrist imagery).


The United States has the resources; that is not a problem. We have the manpower, though as we underfund education, the knowhow could be slipping. Yes, we do need to educate far more doctors.

If you truly supported single payer, you would have suggested it and suggested how to get there. Instead you cheer and crow that people in red states are not going to get what they need to be healthy but instead the austerity regiment in those states can remain intact.

Whether or not the ACA was engineered to do so, it may force single payer in order to cover people.
 
2013-11-20 12:33:27 PM

FarkedOver: I do protest.  I just think Occupy was more of an anarchist movement, I don't want to get into that right now because there are certain anarchists here that will say it was RUINED because of socialists and communists (not true, it's just their go to excuse).  I believe in protests and I believe in agitation at the work place and militant unionization.  I believe in running anti-capitalist candidates.


I just want to remind you, those protests are worthless, your work place agitation is meaningless and your militant unionization is a waste of time unless the end result is getting a piece of parchment changed.  Look at all of the effort Occupy Wall Street put in.  What did they gain?  Nothing.  They gained absolutely nothing.  What about all of the civil rights protests?  Think about all of the time, effort, struggle and pain those protestors endured.  It would have all been for nothing if not for a change made on a piece of parchment.

You are ignorantly pretending you are above the politics game.  Your meaningless gestures make you feel good about yourself but do nothing to actually change or improve our society.  Great, look at how upset that guy is and his protesting.  We'll let him scream and shout and when he's done, everything will go back to the way it was.

FarkedOver:  Liberals will just codify into law what leftists fought for.

You're welcome.
 
2013-11-20 12:33:53 PM

FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: Well historically speaking? weekends, the 40 hour workweek, paid sick days and holidays.... pretty much any benefit you enjoy at work, thank anticapitalist agitators like communists socialists and anarchists.

Oh? Who were the agitators who passed these into law?

It's not the law that makes companies comply, it's the threat of strike. Make no mistake about it.


I'm sure striking workers that have been fired from their jobs thanks to business friendly state laws would totally agree with you. Like, totally.
 
2013-11-20 12:34:18 PM

Ant: SlothB77: Liberalism won't die.  But Obamacare will.

To be replaced by single payer or a national health service.


I could say that single-payer is for advanced democracies only.

Or I could that Medicare/Medicaid is already a single-payer system larger they many industrialized economies.  The only thing undermining its success is the free-market insurance system next to it.
 
2013-11-20 12:35:34 PM

Kangaroo_Ralph: If The New Yorker wanted to know something about circle-jerks, they should ask Farkers. There aren't enough mops to clean what's been piling up on the Politics tab the past few years.


Awww, did someone accidentally leave their fox-news-am-radio echo chamber and find out that Farkers like actual facts, not Republican facts you make up to make yourself feel better?

Poor little guy.
 
2013-11-20 12:35:46 PM

FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: Well historically speaking? weekends, the 40 hour workweek, paid sick days and holidays.... pretty much any benefit you enjoy at work, thank anticapitalist agitators like communists socialists and anarchists.

Oh? Who were the agitators who passed these into law?

It's not the law that makes companies comply, it's the threat of strike. Make no mistake about it.

What makes a strike legal?

The most effective strikes aren't.  They are called Wildcat strikes.  This tactic was used multiple times in the 30s.  Read the book Teamster Rebellion, it's fascinating.


There's a reason that Wildcat strikes don't happen anymore.
 
2013-11-20 12:35:59 PM

un4gvn666: I'm sure striking workers that have been fired from their jobs thanks to business friendly state laws would totally agree with you. Like, totally.


You can thank liberal capitulation and compromise for the eroding of labor rights.

Please see the Employee Free Choice Act that Obama "promised" to pass.  Never happened.  Illegal strikes are the way to go any way, the tactic has worked time and time again.
 
2013-11-20 12:36:34 PM

InmanRoshi: sullydish.files.wordpress.com

It's pretty remarkable at how inherently awful the free market is when it comes to healthcare.


I've been informed that the other countries on that chart have no doctors because they all defected and came to the US to make millions.
 
2013-11-20 12:36:59 PM

cameroncrazy1984: There's a reason that Wildcat strikes don't happen anymore.


Because it's bad for business and the state will send in their goons to break it up.  Kind of like FDR did.
 
2013-11-20 12:37:24 PM

FarkedOver: lease see the Employee Free Choice Act that Obama "promised" to pass.  Never happened.  Illegal strikes are the way to go any way, the tactic has worked time and time again.


Tell that to the air traffic controllers.

And it wasn't liberals who failed to pass the EFCA. It was the GOP. You know, Conservatives?
 
2013-11-20 12:37:44 PM

FarkedOver: My position isn't ridiculous or far fetched.


images.encyclopediadramatica.es
 
2013-11-20 12:38:09 PM

cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: Well historically speaking? weekends, the 40 hour workweek, paid sick days and holidays.... pretty much any benefit you enjoy at work, thank anticapitalist agitators like communists socialists and anarchists.

Oh? Who were the agitators who passed these into law?

It's not the law that makes companies comply, it's the threat of strike. Make no mistake about it.

What makes a strike legal?

The most effective strikes aren't.  They are called Wildcat strikes.  This tactic was used multiple times in the 30s.  Read the book Teamster Rebellion, it's fascinating.

There's a reason that Wildcat strikes don't happen anymore.


We fought a 40 year long cold war to be sure that unions and living wages were destroyed. Spent trillions and trillions and sacrificed tens of thousands of American lives so workers wouldn't have rights.

It was very important to us.
 
2013-11-20 12:38:15 PM

FarkedOver: You can thank liberal capitulation and compromise for the eroding of labor rights.

Please see the Employee Free Choice Act that Obama "promised" to pass.


Obama is not a liberal, he is a centrist.
 
2013-11-20 12:38:18 PM

FarkedOver: Please see the Employee Free Choice Act that Obama "promised" to pass.  Never happened.


Are we in a dictatorship? Because I didn't get that memo.
 
2013-11-20 12:38:37 PM

FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: There's a reason that Wildcat strikes don't happen anymore.

Because it's bad for business and the state will send in their goons to break it up.  Kind of like FDR did.


Because it's illegal, and there are legal ways and methods to effect change. How is it that you're not getting it yet?
 
2013-11-20 12:38:44 PM

cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: lease see the Employee Free Choice Act that Obama "promised" to pass.  Never happened.  Illegal strikes are the way to go any way, the tactic has worked time and time again.

Tell that to the air traffic controllers.

And it wasn't liberals who failed to pass the EFCA. It was the GOP. You know, Conservatives?


The GOP is not conservative, It is radical.
 
2013-11-20 12:39:32 PM

FarkedOver: More recently in Seattle a Socialist won a seat on city council. She has advocated Boeing workers to seize the factory and equipment if Boeing moves out of washington..... I like this lady!


I'm sorry, do you *live* in Seattle? Your fark profile implies you don't.

Did you donate money to her campaign?

And really, what the fark is she going to do? She'll just be 'codifying laws into action', which, as we know, isn't REAL change. So you've told us.

/I am also glad she won, however.
 
2013-11-20 12:40:08 PM

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: lease see the Employee Free Choice Act that Obama "promised" to pass.  Never happened.  Illegal strikes are the way to go any way, the tactic has worked time and time again.

Tell that to the air traffic controllers.

And it wasn't liberals who failed to pass the EFCA. It was the GOP. You know, Conservatives?

The GOP is not conservative, It is radical.


Then they are carrying on the proud tradition of conservatives in America.
 
2013-11-20 12:40:32 PM

Felgraf: And really, what the fark is she going to do? She'll just be 'codifying laws into action', which, as we know, isn't REAL change. So you've told us.


lol
 
2013-11-20 12:42:07 PM
Felgraf:And really, what the fark is she going to do? She'll just be 'codifying laws into action', which, as we know, isn't REAL change. So you've told us.

cache.emerica.com
 
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