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(The New Yorker)   While the press circle jerks about who can first report on the death of liberalism and the glorious coming thousand year reign of conservatism, people are getting insured   (newyorker.com) divider line 415
    More: Obvious, obamacare, Americans, Medi-Cal, insurance agents  
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2339 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Nov 2013 at 10:15 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-20 10:52:12 AM  
I don't think we are supposed to blame the press... aren't wee supposed to blame crazy teabaggers and Big Oil or something like that?

Haliburton is opressing us and trying to repeal Obamacare!
 
2013-11-20 10:52:19 AM  

Dog Welder: Wait, do you mean to tell me that states that actively tried to work with the law and expand the Medicare coverage are seeing massive enrollments, and states where the governors and state legislatures are actively trying to sabotage the law the people are having issues?  Color me shocked.

/"shocked" as a color is very similar to chartreuse.


Your premise is impossible because free market.  FREEE MARKET!!

www1.sulekha.com
 
2013-11-20 10:53:24 AM  

Serious Black: Garet Garrett: While the press circle jerks about who can first report on the death of liberalism and the glorious coming thousand year reign of conservatism, people are getting insured they're forgetting there's a looming death spiral, too

FTFY, smitty.

When was the last time you studied actuarial science?


See, I don't have to, because the Obama administration and their lackeys did it for me, even as they spin failure as an unlikely consequence (displaying a faith that would make Cubs fans uncomfortable).

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/11/everything-you-n ee d-to-know-about-obamacare-and-death-spirals/281315/
 
2013-11-20 10:53:26 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Kevin72: States' rights. States like Cal with their own website getting healthcare. States being obstinate azzholes being hellholes. Sucks to be them. But at least its getting tougher to get an abortion, gotta love the vaginal ultrasound probe, that's the healthcare we need.

And stuff like a Virginia state senator's son who gets evaluated but since there are no psych beds available he's sent home and gets all stabby on his dad then shoots himself. It's interesting that Virginia isn't expanding Medicaid to help poor people pay for their Obamacare. Not that a state senator's son is poor, right?

States' Rights, every damned day, especially here in George "Macaca" Allen's Confederate Paradise.


Thankfully it looks like it's going to be expanded under the new Governor.

Assuming the teabagger attorney general (if he wins) doesn't try to immediately impeach him...
 
2013-11-20 10:53:46 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: States' Rights, every damned day, especially here in George "Macaca" Allen's Confederate Paradise.


Why, yes; I do always -without exception- include "Northern" whenever I tell anyone that I am from Virginia.
 
2013-11-20 10:54:30 AM  

Garet Garrett: qorkfiend: Garet Garrett: While the press circle jerks about who can first report on the death of liberalism and the glorious coming thousand year reign of conservatism, people are getting insured they're forgetting there's a looming death spiral, too

FTFY, smitty.

Can you expound on that?

Um, sure.  So far the anecdotal evidence that's been put out about enrollments (and that's all that's been made available, a subject I'll address shortly), those that have managed to enroll in private plans (not the expanded Medicaid) have been among the "neediest" people - people with cancer, chronic illnesses, etc.  Heavy users of the system.  In order to maintain some sort of financial balance, for each of them, O'care needs about 20 people whose premiums exceed their medical expenses - basically, young healthy men (sorry ladies, you're expensive at any age, NTTAWWT).

Those guys are harder to track down than a will-o-the-wisp.  They need to be healthy, employed, make enough money to pay for the health insurance but not get it from their employer, not have a plan that O's latest promise will "let them keep," etc.  Oh, and be willing to pay more in premiums than they're likely to spend in healthcare plus the paltry tax penalty for not carrying insurance.

Now, if the exchanges were seeing the kind of ratios between net contributors and net takers from the system, Jay Carney would lead with that at every frigging news conference.  But they're not, so the anecdotes ("gammy finally can afford the rehab that will get her walking!") appear to be, by and large, representative (i.e., just what we'd expect - the people signing up are the people with a perceived acute need for insurance).  Which means the plans being offered are going to go upside down very, very quickly, and the insurers will be raising premiums dramatically to try to make the plans work financially.  Which will drive more and more non-heavy users out of the system, which will, in turn, drive greater premium increase ...


Yes, the initial numbers do not necessarily reflect strong pickup by younger folks. But the initial numbers are nothing but a neat way to distract people. We all know that pickup is going to skyrocket around two dates: December 15th, and March 31st. The first will happen because that's the day people who want health insurance on January 1st must pay their first month's premium by. The second will happen because that's the day people who want to avoid the individual shared responsibility payment must pay their first month's premium by. Those are the two times the age distribution will actually matter, and the first isn't nearly as important as the second because insurers priced their plans knowing people would have until March 31st to sign up.
 
2013-11-20 10:56:02 AM  

netcentric: I don't think we are supposed to blame the press... aren't wee supposed to blame crazy teabaggers and Big Oil or something like that?

Haliburton is opressing us and trying to repeal Obamacare!


That is why this is so sweet!  They can't hate the press, because they are so in bed together.  It is like watching Michael Vick getting maulled by his own dog.
 
2013-11-20 10:56:29 AM  
B-BUT THE FARTBONGO CARE WEBSITE IS CRAP~!

/RW shill mode off
 
2013-11-20 10:56:54 AM  

netcentric: I don't think we are supposed to blame the press... aren't wee supposed to blame crazy teabaggers and Big Oil or something like that?

Haliburton is opressing us and trying to repeal Obamacare!


Teabaggers?  A little bit.  Their rabid anti-Obamaism certainly puts pressure on Republicans to be rabidly anti-Obamacare, although most, if not all, would probably oppose it anyway.

I don't think the others have much to do with it.
 
2013-11-20 10:57:11 AM  

Garet Garrett: Serious Black: Garet Garrett: While the press circle jerks about who can first report on the death of liberalism and the glorious coming thousand year reign of conservatism, people are getting insured they're forgetting there's a looming death spiral, too

FTFY, smitty.

When was the last time you studied actuarial science?

See, I don't have to, because the Obama administration and their lackeys did it for me, even as they spin failure as an unlikely consequence (displaying a faith that would make Cubs fans uncomfortable).

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/11/everything-you-n ee d-to-know-about-obamacare-and-death-spirals/281315/


That article explicitly says about the slow uptake by younger people, and I quote: "How worried should we be? Not too much. At least not yet." And since when were Matthew O'Brien and The Atlantic's editors lackeys who can't stop themselves from sucking the venom out of Obama's black mamba?
 
2013-11-20 10:58:40 AM  

Serious Black: Yes, the initial numbers do not necessarily reflect strong pickup by younger folks.


Let's not forget the 6.6M young folks who stayed on or joined their parents plans.

An Estimated 6.6 Million Young Adults Stayed on or Joined Their Parents' Health Plans in 2011 Who Would Not Have Been Eligible Prior to Passage of the Affordable Care Act
 
2013-11-20 10:58:43 AM  

Dog Welder: Wait, do you mean to tell me that states that actively tried to work with the law and expand the Medicare coverage are seeing massive enrollments, and states where the governors and state legislatures are actively trying to sabotage the law the people are having issues?  Color me shocked.

/"shocked" as a color is very similar to chartreuse.


Republican state governments throw the citizens they represent under a bus to score political points? When has that ever happened before?
 
2013-11-20 10:59:04 AM  

qorkfiend: nunyadang: Have any commenters read the article, or did you all just set phasers to derp and come out blasting?

You must be new here.


I have been here long enough to know that many farkers have strong opinions, but many also have poor reading comprehension, or just read a misleading headline and start commenting

Left Wing Derp, or Right Wing Derp is still Derp people.
 
2013-11-20 10:59:12 AM  

Dog Welder: Wait, do you mean to tell me that states that actively tried to work with the law and expand the Medicare coverage are seeing massive enrollments, and states where the governors and state legislatures are actively trying to sabotage the law the people are having issues?


Yes, but it's still 0bammy's fault.  Or something like such as...
 
2013-11-20 11:00:59 AM  

Tricky Chicken: netcentric: I don't think we are supposed to blame the press... aren't wee supposed to blame crazy teabaggers and Big Oil or something like that?

Haliburton is opressing us and trying to repeal Obamacare!

That is why this is so sweet!  They can't hate the press, because they are so in bed together.  It is like watching Michael Vick getting maulled by his own dog.


It's fun watching the results of too much echo-chamber.
sad, but fun.


Knock yourselves out, guys!
 
2013-11-20 11:01:27 AM  

Serious Black: Garet Garrett: Serious Black: Garet Garrett: While the press circle jerks about who can first report on the death of liberalism and the glorious coming thousand year reign of conservatism, people are getting insured they're forgetting there's a looming death spiral, too

FTFY, smitty.

When was the last time you studied actuarial science?

See, I don't have to, because the Obama administration and their lackeys did it for me, even as they spin failure as an unlikely consequence (displaying a faith that would make Cubs fans uncomfortable).

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/11/everything-you-n ee d-to-know-about-obamacare-and-death-spirals/281315/

That article explicitly says about the slow uptake by younger people, and I quote: "How worried should we be? Not too much. At least not yet." And since when were Matthew O'Brien and The Atlantic's editors lackeys who can't stop themselves from sucking the venom out of Obama's black mamba?


Whatever man, reading the whole article is for chumps.
 
2013-11-20 11:02:42 AM  

Garet Garrett: qorkfiend: Garet Garrett: While the press circle jerks about who can first report on the death of liberalism and the glorious coming thousand year reign of conservatism, people are getting insured they're forgetting there's a looming death spiral, too

FTFY, smitty.

Can you expound on that?

Um, sure.  So far the anecdotal evidence that's been put out about enrollments (and that's all that's been made available, a subject I'll address shortly), those that have managed to enroll in private plans (not the expanded Medicaid) have been among the "neediest" people - people with cancer, chronic illnesses, etc.  Heavy users of the system.  In order to maintain some sort of financial balance, for each of them, O'care needs about 20 people whose premiums exceed their medical expenses - basically, young healthy men (sorry ladies, you're expensive at any age, NTTAWWT).

Those guys are harder to track down than a will-o-the-wisp.  They need to be healthy, employed, make enough money to pay for the health insurance but not get it from their employer, not have a plan that O's latest promise will "let them keep," etc.  Oh, and be willing to pay more in premiums than they're likely to spend in healthcare plus the paltry tax penalty for not carrying insurance.

Now, if the exchanges were seeing the kind of ratios between net contributors and net takers from the system, Jay Carney would lead with that at every frigging news conference.  But they're not, so the anecdotes ("gammy finally can afford the rehab that will get her walking!") appear to be, by and large, representative (i.e., just what we'd expect - the people signing up are the people with a perceived acute need for insurance).  Which means the plans being offered are going to go upside down very, very quickly, and the insurers will be raising premiums dramatically to try to make the plans work financially.  Which will drive more and more non-heavy users out of the system, which will, in turn, drive greater premium increase ...


Sounds reasonable, thanks for the explanation. That balance is, of course, what the individual mandate is about, but you're probably right and it won't force enough people into the system to balance out the others.

Single payer is speculation, sure, but I think there would be more pressure (from the public, at least; who knows what various special interest groups would push for) for at least a public option than there would be to move back to the pre-ACA system.
 
2013-11-20 11:02:47 AM  

Skleenar: Dog Welder: Wait, do you mean to tell me that states that actively tried to work with the law and expand the Medicare coverage are seeing massive enrollments, and states where the governors and state legislatures are actively trying to sabotage the law the people are having issues?  Color me shocked.

/"shocked" as a color is very similar to chartreuse.

Your premise is impossible because free market.  FREEE MARKET!!

[www1.sulekha.com image 413x479]


 sullydish.files.wordpress.com

It's pretty remarkable at how inherently awful the free market is when it comes to healthcare.
 
2013-11-20 11:03:48 AM  

Rhino_man: Kevin72: States' rights. States like Cal with their own website getting healthcare. States being obstinate azzholes being hellholes. Sucks to be them. But at least its getting tougher to get an abortion, gotta love the vaginal ultrasound probe, that's the healthcare we need.

Thankfully, my state will soon be joining the caucus of the civilized.
[www.lifesitenews.com image 618x217]

/McAuliffe might not be the greatest, but he promised to expand Medicaid and take over Virginia's exchange.


Is Virginia required to have a balanced budget?
 
2013-11-20 11:04:17 AM  

nunyadang: qorkfiend: nunyadang: Have any commenters read the article, or did you all just set phasers to derp and come out blasting?

You must be new here.

I have been here long enough to know that many farkers have strong opinions, but many also have poor reading comprehension, or just read a misleading headline and start commenting

Left Wing Derp, or Right Wing Derp is still Derp people.


Left wing derp is derp. Right wing derp is national policy.
 
2013-11-20 11:04:19 AM  

nunyadang: qorkfiend: nunyadang: Have any commenters read the article, or did you all just set phasers to derp and come out blasting?

You must be new here.

I have been here long enough to know that many farkers have strong opinions, but many also have poor reading comprehension, or just read a misleading headline and start commenting

Left Wing Derp, or Right Wing Derp is still Derp people.


What you describe is standard operating procedure on the Politics tab.
 
2013-11-20 11:04:55 AM  

InmanRoshi: Skleenar: Dog Welder: Wait, do you mean to tell me that states that actively tried to work with the law and expand the Medicare coverage are seeing massive enrollments, and states where the governors and state legislatures are actively trying to sabotage the law the people are having issues?  Color me shocked.

/"shocked" as a color is very similar to chartreuse.

Your premise is impossible because free market.  FREEE MARKET!!

[www1.sulekha.com image 413x479]

 [sullydish.files.wordpress.com image 580x446]

It's pretty remarkable at how inherently awful the free market is when it comes to healthcare.


Healthcare has a massive agency problem at pretty much every stage in the chain.
 
2013-11-20 11:04:58 AM  

Tricky Chicken: Dog Welder: Wait, do you mean to tell me that states that actively tried to work with the law and expand the Medicare coverage are seeing massive enrollments, and states where the governors and state legislatures are actively trying to sabotage the law the people are having issues?  Color me shocked.

/"shocked" as a color is very similar to chartreuse.

Yes, the republican governors were particularly brilliant weren't they?  Expand medicare and run your own exchange and shoulder some of the expense, or just let the federal government handle their own law themselves and not risk taking on any of the expense.  Tough choice.

The smart ones are letting the Feds take all the risk.  As the costs skyrocket, their budgets won't take a hit.  Been nice knowing ya California!


Funny how those GOP states are the states screaming the most about "STATES RIGHTS!" and instead invited that dagburned fedral gubmint in to run things for them.
 
2013-11-20 11:05:28 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Serious Black: Yes, the initial numbers do not necessarily reflect strong pickup by younger folks.

Let's not forget the 6.6M young folks who stayed on or joined their parents plans.

An Estimated 6.6 Million Young Adults Stayed on or Joined Their Parents' Health Plans in 2011 Who Would Not Have Been Eligible Prior to Passage of the Affordable Care Act


This is true. There are also numerous surveys that show younger Americans think it is important for them to have health insurance at rates about equal to the population at large and that they are the most likely people to purchase insurance through the exchanges. This makes sense because way more of them are currently uninsured than people above the age of 35. It's certainly possible young people will en masse go uninsured next year, but I just don't see any way you can predict it other than ignoring all of that evidence.
 
2013-11-20 11:05:33 AM  

Skleenar: It's fun watching the results of too much echo-chamber.
sad, but fun.


It's like watching two dumb dogs fight over the same turd.
 
2013-11-20 11:06:39 AM  

Cat Food Sandwiches: Rhino_man: Kevin72: States' rights. States like Cal with their own website getting healthcare. States being obstinate azzholes being hellholes. Sucks to be them. But at least its getting tougher to get an abortion, gotta love the vaginal ultrasound probe, that's the healthcare we need.

Thankfully, my state will soon be joining the caucus of the civilized.
[www.lifesitenews.com image 618x217]

/McAuliffe might not be the greatest, but he promised to expand Medicaid and take over Virginia's exchange.

Is Virginia required to have a balanced budget?


Every state but Vermont explicitly has a provisions requiring balanced budgets, but the states have tons of ways to render that a toothless requirement.
 
2013-11-20 11:09:23 AM  
Liberalism is nothing but feel good politics.  Liberals need to go to the left and start actually doing shiat instead of just griping and biatching about conservatives and the GOP.
 
2013-11-20 11:10:53 AM  
So the problem isn't that government, by default, can do nothing right, but that when half the people IN government are actively trying to f*ck everything up, we get dysfunctional government? Oh. Okay. Well that's a lesson I'll be sure to remember for the rest of my life.
 
2013-11-20 11:13:14 AM  
FarkedOver: Liberalism is nothing but feel good politics.

 Yes, I'm sure it does "feels good" when you get Civil Rights.
 
2013-11-20 11:15:36 AM  

InmanRoshi: FarkedOver: Liberalism is nothing but feel good politics.

 Yes, I'm sure it does "feels good" when you get Civil Rights.


Riiiighhhhttt that was all liberals.... Keep believing that.
 
2013-11-20 11:16:03 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Serious Black: Yes, the initial numbers do not necessarily reflect strong pickup by younger folks.

Let's not forget the 6.6M young folks who stayed on or joined their parents plans.

An Estimated 6.6 Million Young Adults Stayed on or Joined Their Parents' Health Plans in 2011 Who Would Not Have Been Eligible Prior to Passage of the Affordable Care Act


Yes but 3 million people have to upgrade their farking terrible plans so game, set and potato my friend.
 
2013-11-20 11:16:27 AM  
As I've pointed out many, many times before, the mass media are not on the side of the People. They would very much prefer having a right wing republican government (the more viciously Teabaggy the better), simply because republicans do outrageous things that the media can write articles about. The clusterfark known as the Iraq war gave these ghouls plenty of stuff to jibber about on MSNBC between weekends full of prison documentaries.


No media pundit wants to write articles about boring Democratic stuff like "Baby gets well fed" or "Elderly person went to the doctor and got better".
 
2013-11-20 11:16:52 AM  

cman: SlothB77: Liberalism won't die.  But Obamacare will.

Liberalism and ObamaCare won't die.

They will surely evolve, tho.


like Pokemon?!
 
2013-11-20 11:17:40 AM  

FarkedOver: InmanRoshi: FarkedOver: Liberalism is nothing but feel good politics.

 Yes, I'm sure it does "feels good" when you get Civil Rights.

Riiiighhhhttt that was all liberals.... Keep believing that.


You think conservatives support change?

LOL
 
2013-11-20 11:17:43 AM  

FarkedOver: Liberals need to go to the left and start actually doing shiat instead of just griping and biatching about conservatives and the GOP.


Word. The Democrats should quit being such obstructionists and start trying to passing some meaningful legislation. They should start with a tax cut on high incomes and capital gains.
 
2013-11-20 11:17:44 AM  

SlothB77: Liberalism won't die.  But Obamacare will.


1/10
 
2013-11-20 11:19:09 AM  

Felgraf: Kangaroo_Ralph: If The New Yorker wanted to know something about circle-jerks, they should ask Farkers. There aren't enough mops to clean what's been piling up on the Politics tab the past few years.

Oh, wow, I haven't seen *you* show your face around here for a while. Not since the election, but perhaps I'd just missed it.


He was around for a few OBAMAPHONE!!!!  WELFARE QUEENS BUYING LOBSTER1!!!!1111 threads, but then he crawled back in his cave.  You missed.....nothing of course.
 
2013-11-20 11:19:24 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: You think conservatives support change?

LOL


No.  I think the real people that have effected change in this country have been radicals.

Please see the CP, IWW, Black Panthers etc.

I don't sit here and pretend a liberal fought for any persons rights.  They paid lip service.  Real change was won by real leftists.
 
2013-11-20 11:19:26 AM  

Serious Black: Dusk-You-n-Me: Serious Black: Yes, the initial numbers do not necessarily reflect strong pickup by younger folks.

Let's not forget the 6.6M young folks who stayed on or joined their parents plans.

An Estimated 6.6 Million Young Adults Stayed on or Joined Their Parents' Health Plans in 2011 Who Would Not Have Been Eligible Prior to Passage of the Affordable Care Act

This is true. There are also numerous surveys that show younger Americans think it is important for them to have health insurance at rates about equal to the population at large and that they are the most likely people to purchase insurance through the exchanges. This makes sense because way more of them are currently uninsured than people above the age of 35. It's certainly possible young people will en masse go uninsured next year, but I just don't see any way you can predict it other than ignoring all of that evidence.


It is important to deem it a complete and utter failure before the evidence comes in.  I've said from the beginning, that the GOP's greatest fear was and has always been that Obamacare would be successful.  In their hearts, they fear it will work and that is why there is a panic to kill it as soon as possible.
 
2013-11-20 11:20:03 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: InmanRoshi: FarkedOver: Liberalism is nothing but feel good politics.

 Yes, I'm sure it does "feels good" when you get Civil Rights.

Riiiighhhhttt that was all liberals.... Keep believing that.

You think conservatives support change?

LOL


This is a problem in this country.  You can only be seen as a conservative or a liberal.  Fark that shiat.
 
2013-11-20 11:22:02 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: Pretty soon the "liberal media" will find some other thing to obsess on, and we can get an idea how well the ACA is actually working.


Things like what a celebrity did ,videos about babies doing stuff and asking if everything is a good thing or a bad thing.
 
2013-11-20 11:22:16 AM  

FarkedOver: No.  I think the real people that have effected change in this country have been radicals.

Please see the CP, IWW, Black Panthers etc.

I don't sit here and pretend a liberal fought for any persons rights.  They paid lip service.  Real change was won by real leftists.


Whom are, by and large...liberal. Right?
 
2013-11-20 11:23:06 AM  
I think  FarkedOver may be conflating "liberal" with "centrist democrat"
 
2013-11-20 11:23:35 AM  

TV's Vinnie: As I've pointed out many, many times before, the mass media are not on the side of the People. They would very much prefer having a right wing republican government (the more viciously Teabaggy the better), simply because republicans do outrageous things that the media can write articles about. The clusterfark known as the Iraq war gave these ghouls plenty of stuff to jibber about on MSNBC between weekends full of prison documentaries.


No media pundit wants to write articles about boring Democratic stuff like "Baby gets well fed" or "Elderly person went to the doctor and got better".


It is almost like the media has a bias towards a train wreck and conflict.  How can you prove that?

Here's a test.  Does any Farker know who this guy is?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-11-20 11:24:09 AM  

UberDave: I wonder what 1000 year reign of teabag-like conservatism would look like...


[s24.postimg.org image 850x353]


Close, but you are missing the 1 km tall, Glorious Crystal Randian Tower full of bootstrappy Johnny and Jenny Galts.
 
2013-11-20 11:24:20 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: No.  I think the real people that have effected change in this country have been radicals.

Please see the CP, IWW, Black Panthers etc.

I don't sit here and pretend a liberal fought for any persons rights.  They paid lip service.  Real change was won by real leftists.

Whom are, by and large...liberal anti-capitalists like communists, socialists, anarchists, etc. Right?


There now that makes much more sense.
 
2013-11-20 11:25:01 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: I think  FarkedOver may be conflating "liberal" with "centrist democrat"


If a Conservative was ever confronted with an actual Liberal, they might shiat their pants and go into a grand-mal seizure
 
2013-11-20 11:25:13 AM  

UberDave: I wonder what 1000 year reign of teabag-like conservatism would look like...


[s24.postimg.org image 850x353]


Fail. No crosses. There would be lots and lots of crosses.
 
2013-11-20 11:25:20 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: I think  FarkedOver may be conflating "liberal" with "centrist democrat"


I think you are confusing liberal with radical.
 
2013-11-20 11:25:30 AM  

FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: You think conservatives support change?

LOL

No.  I think the real people that have effected change in this country have been radicals.

Please see the CP, IWW, Black Panthers etc.

I don't sit here and pretend a liberal fought for any persons rights.  They paid lip service.  Real change was won by real leftists.


The tea party are also radicals, though. Liberal and conservative kind of helps point to which end of the spectrum they're on.

At the very least, conservatives were the ones that *Actively opposed* Civil Rights. Because it sure as fark wasn't the LIBERALS screeching "RACE MIXING IS COOOMUUUNISSSSM". Though, in actuality, I suppose those folks might have *Also* been radicals....
 
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