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(Opposing Views)   Record numbers of Americans are renouncing their U.S. citizenship this year, to dodge U.S. taxes, apparently unaware that U.S. tax rates are almost the lowest in the developed world   (opposingviews.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, U.S. Citizenship, United States, developed country, Americans, record numbers, u.s. taxes, effective tax rates, renunciation of citizenship  
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5632 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Nov 2013 at 6:41 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-11-19 06:45:15 PM  
21 votes:
misleading headline and article is misleading.

Those expats are paying taxes in America and the country they currently reside.  By renouncing US citizenship, they only pay the taxes of the country of residence and not also the US.
2013-11-19 06:46:31 PM  
12 votes:
The US is also one of the few countries that collects taxes on you if you're a citizen living abroad. They're paying taxes twice. Once to their resident country and once to the US. Hence why if you're living abroad you would renounce citizenship: to save that tax money.
2013-11-19 06:48:30 PM  
8 votes:
It's not necessarily about the lowest.

The US is one of the few countries in the world that follows your income.  If you live and work in a foreign country 100%, you pay that country's taxes AND (after an exclusion), US taxes.  So you are doubly taxed, in other words.

On the contrary, a Canadian working in the US (for example) pays NO Canadian taxes.  Only US ones.

The US now also taxes your savings if you are living outside the US and have savings there.  Failure to report has a stiff fine.
2013-11-19 06:42:59 PM  
6 votes:
This just in: you can get rich without being really smart.
2013-11-19 07:03:39 PM  
5 votes:
This has absolutely nothing to do with paying taxes.

I live overseas (I am a citizen of both the US and Australia). I pay taxes in Australia as my "tax home" as per US law and I file every year with Uncle Sam. My tax bill to the US government is always zero dollars. Why? Simple: Because I already pay more tax here in Australia than the US government would take.

It's not paying taxes that is a problem for people, because the tax burden isn't actually there - it's the legal requirements for filing.

In a nutshell, they've made it so difficult that you need to engage an expensive accountant just to do personal income tax filing and god help you if you own a business overseas, you're looking at having to lawyer up every year around tax time.

So yeah, I am thinking of handing in my passport, not because of the tax burden, but because they have made it such a pain in the ass. For other people, they 2-4k a year they have to spend on accountants otherwise is just too much cost for them to bear and it makes sense for them to basically wash their hands of the US, otherwise they have to not file (and break the law) or not eat.

Not everyone who lives overseas is super rich - most people I know who are ex-pats hold down normal jobs, or are school teachers.
2013-11-19 06:52:17 PM  
5 votes:
The ex-pat reporting requirements are onerous.  If you have any kind of complex business and are living offshore, you must get a lawyer to do your taxes at a considerable expense.  Otherwise you risk forfeiture of assets or worse.  So thank Congress for making crappy laws.
2013-11-19 06:58:33 PM  
4 votes:
Any tax-motivated renunciation is more about avoiding the bizarrely asinine global taxation of the USA and the even-more-asinine and onerous reporting requirements.

These people are by and large already living overseas and paying taxes in some other jurisdiction.

And who gives a flying fark about "taxes measured the traditional way, as percentage of Gross Domestic Product," in selected nations. When making a personal judgment about whether to renounce citizenship, if you are considering it for tax reasons, what matters is your PERSONAL tax situation.

TFA is just farking stupid.

/and there are plenty of other reasons that someone might have for renouncing citizenship, so the gist of TFA is baseless speculation in the first place
2013-11-19 06:50:26 PM  
4 votes:
i677.photobucket.com
2013-11-19 06:44:16 PM  
4 votes:
Well bye.
2013-11-19 06:52:04 PM  
3 votes:

sprgrss: misleading headline and article is misleading.

Those expats are paying taxes in America and the country they currently reside.  By renouncing US citizenship, they only pay the taxes of the country of residence and not also the US.


That's what I came to say, If you plan on living out the rest of your life in another country why continue to pay US taxes.

Plus It depends on how you make your money, In Switzerland which the article mentions the capital gains tax is zero. So if you are retired and living off capital gains you would be smarter than subby to move there.
2013-11-19 06:46:28 PM  
3 votes:
So less people with republican leanings? Sweet.
2013-11-19 06:44:50 PM  
3 votes:
The ultimate example of Fark you I got mine!
2013-11-19 08:53:30 PM  
2 votes:

MadHatter500: The problem is not paying taxes.  It's having to file taxes.  The US requires that all citizens file tax forms for income generated outside the country.  Ours are considered somewhat painful to file.


Especially compared to countries like the UK where "filing taxes" is something that the average person just doesn't have to do. Employers calculate income tax and send it straight to the government. What you get paid into your bank is yours. Millions of people can get from eighteen to retirement without ever having to fill out a tax return or even think about paying tax.
2013-11-19 07:36:19 PM  
2 votes:
The irony is delightful how the same people who are completely pro-immigrant are simultaneously completely anti-emigrant
2013-11-19 07:27:15 PM  
2 votes:
I found this bit 'o trivia courtesy of Google:

"Annual premiums for employer-sponsored family health coverage reached $16,351 this year, up 4 percent from last year, with workers on average paying $4,565 towards the cost of their coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation/Health Research & Educational Trust (HRET) 2013 Employer Health Benefits Survey."

So that's about $21,000 a year for health insurance per family.  If we added that $21,000 to our tax bill so that our new "tax" included the cost of socialized medicine, what would our tax rate be then, and how would it compare to places like the UK or Sweden?
2013-11-19 07:21:12 PM  
2 votes:
what a stupid farking whiny article written by either an axe grinding douche or ill informed assmaster.

and before i rant on the general topic, lets take the facebook guy: he was not born american and became american, and lived all over. his footprint was always international, and what he did makes total freakin' sense.

but to the article in general:

only in the US do you have the wonderful privilege of being taxed based on yoru citizenship, not on your residence or place of work. virtually no country in the world does this aside from the US.

not only that, but because of the new FATCA requirements that Washington rammed down the throats of world's banks, banks abroad have to submit financial information on US citizens to washington! so most banks abroad just dont want to do business with US clients any more, which really farks expats who are working abroad. its not just the ueber rich trying to escape the tax man; its the normal dudes working abroad who suddenly are having real trouble finding a bank to give them a mortgage or do business with them because they're too expensive of a client ot serve since many financial institutions dont have the ability to comply with the FATCA requirements.

and "that the US has lower tax rates than other countries"; wtf does that have to do with anything? it freakin' sucks you have to file 2ce! it freakin' sucks the US is the only country in the west to demand their citizens abroad file at all! and if you pay taxes twice, that double farkin sucks, since you sure as hell arent seeing those tax dollars at work in your community are you.

fark fatca and the rest of those laws which are nothing more than taxation without representation, and making life harder for those of us who've left the US to persue dreams elsewhere.
2013-11-19 07:18:41 PM  
2 votes:

TwistedFark: This has absolutely nothing to do with paying taxes.

I live overseas (I am a citizen of both the US and Australia). I pay taxes in Australia as my "tax home" as per US law and I file every year with Uncle Sam. My tax bill to the US government is always zero dollars. Why? Simple: Because I already pay more tax here in Australia than the US government would take.

It's not paying taxes that is a problem for people, because the tax burden isn't actually there - it's the legal requirements for filing.

In a nutshell, they've made it so difficult that you need to engage an expensive accountant just to do personal income tax filing and god help you if you own a business overseas, you're looking at having to lawyer up every year around tax time.

So yeah, I am thinking of handing in my passport, not because of the tax burden, but because they have made it such a pain in the ass. For other people, they 2-4k a year they have to spend on accountants otherwise is just too much cost for them to bear and it makes sense for them to basically wash their hands of the US, otherwise they have to not file (and break the law) or not eat.

Not everyone who lives overseas is super rich - most people I know who are ex-pats hold down normal jobs, or are school teachers.


You got that right. I am an American living in Canada and its this gigantic pain in the ass that the tax law is that we have to have a high priced accountant to file every year even though I have never had to pay a cent in taxes. And last year the IRS wanted access to all Canadian bank accounts for snooping reasons. They wanted to seize assets for every year missed in filing. The Canadian government shouted them down for that.

But here's the run. My daughter is autistic and she's supposed to file when she turns 18. WTF is that about. People who moved here when they were 4 years old are suddenly running into trouble because they've never filed. The IRS is too intrusive, too draconian yet totally lousy at going after the mega swindlers, sheep corporations and off shore tax dodgers.
2013-11-19 06:52:44 PM  
2 votes:

Kope: sprgrss: misleading headline and article is misleading.

Those expats are paying taxes in America and the country they currently reside.  By renouncing US citizenship, they only pay the taxes of the country of residence and not also the US.

Not true. The US claims the right to collect income tax on former citizens for 10 years after renouncing citizenship.  See the Internal Revenue Code, Section 877.


I see someone doesn't understand the meaning of "not true"
2013-11-19 06:50:15 PM  
2 votes:

Jello Fever: Well, if you're a corporation, maybe.


Like Apple (all you IPhone fans) who runs their international sales thru Ireland (who has an way low corporate tax rate) and avoids US taxes.
2013-11-19 06:50:10 PM  
2 votes:

sprgrss: misleading headline and article is misleading.

Those expats are paying taxes in America and the country they currently reside.  By renouncing US citizenship, they only pay the taxes of the country of residence and not also the US.


Not true. The US claims the right to collect income tax on former citizens for 10 years after renouncing citizenship.  See the Internal Revenue Code, Section 877.
2013-11-20 02:00:24 PM  
1 vote:

Makh: Ha ha, welcome to globalization.  Your government is now another commodity.  Don't like the ______?  Move to a place where you do.  No one is going to wait a whole generation or 5 for some sort of change.  In fact, I'm willing to bet people will pay extra for a place they are comfortable in.

I think the ultimate fark you would be if China drastically improved their human rights and electoral process and offered everything the US offered but for less money.


The funny thing is farking China allows for paid mat leave, it's up to 3 months I think.

The US? Still 0 paid, only 6 weeks unpaid.
2013-11-20 12:29:37 AM  
1 vote:
There is something else at work here, but before I get to that: Most people renouncing their citizenship have been expats for years, if not decades. The number of people actually moving away and renouncing their citizenship's is very low.

In the last year or two, the U.S. government passed the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA). This short sighted piece of legislation aims at putting burdens on foreign financial firms to produce onerous records on U.S. citizens living abroad. Because the U.S. has traditionally been the clearing house for international financial transactions, the politicians thought this would gain wide acceptance. They could not be more wrong!

The foreign financial institutions are building a new network to clear international transactions without having to rely upon the U.S.
Another unintended consequence is that these foreign financial companies are shutting down the accounts of Americans.

So, If you have been an expat for ten years and all of a sudden your local bank or local brokerage firm says they are going to close your account because you are an American, you pretty much have just reached your tipping point. Time to give up the U.S. passport!
2013-11-19 11:44:18 PM  
1 vote:

theflatline: llevrok: It's not necessarily about the lowest.

The US is one of the few countries in the world that follows your income.  If you live and work in a foreign country 100%, you pay that country's taxes AND (after an exclusion), US taxes.  So you are doubly taxed, in other words.

On the contrary, a Canadian working in the US (for example) pays NO Canadian taxes.  Only US ones.

The US now also taxes your savings if you are living outside the US and have savings there.  Failure to report has a stiff fine.
Canadians travelling extensively, living or working abroad must still pay Canadian, and provincial or territorial, income taxes. It is important that you know your residency status and the income tax rules that apply to you while you are outside Canada.
Actually, no.


Actually, yes. If you read the Canadian rules it is clear that if you live and work abroad full time you do not have to file a return or pay any tax unless you have income from Canada, like shares, selling Canadian property, rent from Canadian property etc.
If you leave Canada to live elsewhere you can just stop filing in Canada. If you ever return you just start filing and paying again.
The US demands you file every year, even if you left the US as a baby and have never set foot on US soil and are now fifty, you must file, declare all your savings, bank accounts etc, year after year, until you die or renounce your citizenship.
Totally different from Canada.
2013-11-19 10:39:44 PM  
1 vote:

Cheops: Churchill2004: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: When you're in some foreign jail on trumped up political charges, it's good to know the American Embassy's phone number is still connected. Need saving from some pirates, or wrecked your sailboat on the high seas? That U.S. Coast Guard cutter or Navy vessel appears mighty friendly.

This might be news to you, but other countries have embassies and navies, too. Consular services and maritime rescue are hardly some unique privileges of Americans.

And frankly, the US isn't much inclined to look after its foreign nationals.   Including those that are overseas on official business.


I am dual citizen with Colombia and the US. When I live overseas and work in Colombia I have to pay no US taxes.  Also, when in Colombia I am Colombian so I cannot run to the embassy.

I was there and my mother got sick and I had to return to the states.  My passport was expired, I went to the Embassy, and they expedited me one in 3 days due to US citizenship, they took care of me when they could have denied me.
2013-11-19 10:33:03 PM  
1 vote:
I'm sure it's been said but no, you are not taxed twice if your country of residence has a tax treaty with the US. That's most countries in the world AFAIK. What happens is that all the tax you pay in your country of residence is deducted from the tax you owe as a US citizen. Since most countries have higher taxes than the US the average person wouldn't owe any US tax. However, filing two returns is a royal pain in the butt, I'm sure. This is one reason why I will never become a US citizen. When I go back to the motherland to retire I would have to file double returns every year or go through the hassle of renouncing citizenship. As a DINK there are no real benefits to becoming a US citizen over being a permanent resident anyways.

I'm surprised that US citizens would actually renounce. This seems like a very, very bad idea to me. You will never be able to come home. That may not seem like a big deal today, but how about in 20 years when all kinds of stuff has changed? Are you really, super 100% positive you would never want to live in the US again? Doubtful.

Disclaimer: I am not a tax attorney and I did not stay at a Best Western last night.
2013-11-19 10:29:45 PM  
1 vote:

MadHatter500: llevrok: So you are doubly taxed, in other words.

No.

You end up being taxed at the higher of the two rates, and if the country you earned the income in happens to have a lower rate, you end up paying that country what it is owed, and the difference to the US.

This is not double taxation.


I use to work/live in Sweden- the tax rate was much higher than the US but it was even harder finding a bank to do business with me. Thankfully my office had a US branch and a stake in a local bank so they were the only game in town. Filing and paying for an accountant to deal with draconian US tax law wasn't cheap either. 1500$ later and I was "compliant" as best I could read it. God help me if I ever get audited. All for the pleasure of paying Swedish taxes. At least the girls were hot.

/Västerås rocks biatches!
2013-11-19 10:10:17 PM  
1 vote:

Koodz: So you can renounce, then come back and it's all good? Somehow I can't believe Uncle Sam doesn't kick you in the nuts for that.


So you can renounce, and then have to deal with whatever headaches any other foreigner would have to to come here, maybe a little more.

My cousin-in-law renounced earlier this year and he knows he'll never be able to step foot in the U.S. again.
2013-11-19 09:53:43 PM  
1 vote:

Dinjiin: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Any tax-motivated renunciation is more about avoiding the bizarrely asinine global taxation of the USA and the even-more-asinine and onerous reporting requirements.

I've read that it requires a very specialized tax accountant to prepare income returns for expats overseas.  It isn't uncommon to pay €500+ for the service.  So it is an expensive PITA.

If you're only making €50,000 or less a year, it just doesn't make sense to keep your citizenship if you don't plan on moving back.


I did my own by hand every year in about an hour. Made around $70k before tax for a married couple filing jointly, no dependents, and paid zero US tax.
2013-11-19 09:45:08 PM  
1 vote:

rewind2846: Hasn't anyone figured out the real reason behind this dumb sh*t?
This is not about taxes, since the financial stability needed to pick up and move to another country shows that you can indeed afford to pay comparatively low US taxes.

No, it's the n*****s. Most of the people I know who've made noises about leaving this country and moving elsewhere aren't concerned about the taxes as an abstract concept, but the fact that some of the money they pay for those taxes might go to help people they don't like. Those people are usually tarred (pun intended) with that particular racial epithet, one of many.

If it isn't blacks, it's Mexicans.
If it isn't Mexicans, it's young people.
If it isn't young people, it's unmarried women with kids.
And so on and so on. There's always one group of people who aren't "them" that fuels their ire every time the possibility arises that some of their tax money might be helping anyone in that group.



Bull. Farking. shiat.

US resident teabaggers "who've made noises" have nothing to do with Americans living overseas.
2013-11-19 08:48:48 PM  
1 vote:

Adss2009: The US is also one of the few countries that collects taxes on you if you're a citizen living abroad. They're paying taxes twice. Once to their resident country and once to the US. Hence why if you're living abroad you would renounce citizenship: to save that tax money.


Came here to say this. The United States is the only country that collects taxes if you live and work in another country. And the idea that U.S. charges higher taxes than only Mexico, Chile and Argentina is completely laughable. Taxes measured as a percentage of GDP is meaningless at the individual level.

The Facebook guy that went to Singapore is smart. Their top tax rate is 20%. The country is awash in cash, with no debt. Their banks are amongst the best capitalized in the world.
2013-11-19 08:37:55 PM  
1 vote:

meyerkev: sprgrss: misleading headline and article is misleading.

Those expats are paying taxes in America and the country they currently reside.  By renouncing US citizenship, they only pay the taxes of the country of residence and not also the US.

This.  They're still paying the high taxes overseas, they just aren't paying our taxes.

/Or more often, they either didn't know or "forgot" to pay

file the US taxes and now the IRS is after them.

The problem is not paying taxes.  It's having to file taxes.  The US requires that all citizens file tax forms for income generated outside the country.  Ours are considered somewhat painful to file.

They ex-pat generally doesn't have to pay any US taxes - the local taxes are generally higher than the US taxes on income, so no money is owed by the ex-pat in most cases.  But having to file and get all your banks to generate the necessary documentation is a pain in the ass.  Many financial institutions will say "No thanks" if you want to open an account.  They don't want to deal with Uncle Sam, and they don't have to since they are a foreign financial institution that would otherwise have no dealings with the US government beyond the occasional money laundering investigation.

So ex-patriots face a terrible situation - deal with mounds of paperwork and annoyances in the financial world, or switch teams.  If you are never planning on heading back to the US, opting out of the paperwork does make some sense.
2013-11-19 07:47:51 PM  
1 vote:

sprgrss: misleading headline and article is misleading.

Those expats are paying taxes in America and the country they currently reside. By renouncing US citizenship, they only pay the taxes of the country of residence and not also the US.


No.  US tax rules normally avoid double taxation.

llevrok: It's not necessarily about the lowest.

The US is one of the few countries in the world that follows your income.  If you live and work in a foreign country 100%, you pay that country's taxes AND (after an exclusion), US taxes.  So you are doubly taxed, in other words.

On the contrary, a Canadian working in the US (for example) pays NO Canadian taxes.  Only US ones.

The US now also taxes your savings if you are living outside the US and have savings there.  Failure to report has a stiff fine.


Except you normally get a credit for foreign taxes paid.

What's actually going on is that most countries don't tax foreign income.  If your citizenship and income are from different places you're not going to pay much tax unless you're a US citizen.

There's also the abomination called FATCA.  It basically imposes the same reporting requirements on foreign financial institutions that US institutions are now subject to.  Oops, that's a *BIG* hassle for them, all too many are saying "No US customers" instead.  A lot of those who have married a foreigner and have made their lives in the other country are now ditching their US citizenship because it's causing them problems.

TwistedFark: This has absolutely nothing to do with paying taxes.

I live overseas (I am a citizen of both the US and Australia). I pay taxes in Australia as my "tax home" as per US law and I file every year with Uncle Sam. My tax bill to the US government is always zero dollars. Why? Simple: Because I already pay more tax here in Australia than the US government would take.

It's not paying taxes that is a problem for people, because the tax burden isn't actually there - it's the legal requirements for filing.

In a nutshell, they've made it so difficult that you need to engage an expensive accountant just to do personal income tax filing and god help you if you own a business overseas, you're looking at having to lawyer up every year around tax time.

So yeah, I am thinking of handing in my passport, not because of the tax burden, but because they have made it such a pain in the ass. For other people, they 2-4k a year they have to spend on accountants otherwise is just too much cost for them to bear and it makes sense for them to basically wash their hands of the US, otherwise they have to not file (and break the law) or not eat.

Not everyone who lives overseas is super rich - most people I know who are ex-pats hold down normal jobs, or are school teachers.


^^^THIS^^^
2013-11-19 07:42:52 PM  
1 vote:

brantgoose: A lot of Americans are retiring to countries like Mexico, where they can live cheaply but relatively well on their fixed incomes. The British have been doing this for a long time.

I expect this can drive the number of ex-pats dropping their citizenship up very rapidly when your country insists on double-dipping on taxation. Even a shift between the destination countries might drive tax-avoidance. For example, if people are now chosing countries without tax-sharing treaties over countries that have them, there could be a rapid and sizeable shift as the Baby Boomers continue to move into retirement.


generally speaking tho the fixed income a typical retiree couple earns will not be enough to put them over the top of the line which will oblige them to pay taxes twice.

again, the big threat to the expats with all this, and why many people are renouncing their citizenship, is as much about being able to interface with the financial systems of the countries in which they live, since many banks and lenders will no longer do business with US citizens because of the reporting requirements.
2013-11-19 07:41:31 PM  
1 vote:

sprgrss: misleading headline and article is misleading.

Those expats are paying taxes in America and the country they currently reside.  By renouncing US citizenship, they only pay the taxes of the country of residence and not also the US.


THIS

Plus the law is getting crazy complicated so even people making modest salaries are having to pay someone to figure out what they owe.

Christ, I'm pretty damn liberal and this headline is still pretty damn stupid.

There was a good BBC article not that long ago that profiled Americans who were renouncing.  Plenty of people were born in the US but hadn't lived here for decades, but kept the citizenship (and paid taxes) just because.  This was finally cause for them to say "f--k it, I'm out".

And from what I know (admittedly  not much, no dog in this fight unless/until the SO claims Irish citizenship he's qualified for) this isn't actually having the intended effect of punishing wealthy tax dodgers which was supposed to be the point.  Ordinary people are just kind of getting screwed and this was the last straw.
2013-11-19 07:28:44 PM  
1 vote:

Kope: sprgrss: misleading headline and article is misleading.

Those expats are paying taxes in America and the country they currently reside.  By renouncing US citizenship, they only pay the taxes of the country of residence and not also the US.

Not true. The US claims the right to collect income tax on former citizens for 10 years after renouncing citizenship.  See the Internal Revenue Code, Section 877.


It looks like that was the original 877. And even that was only tax on US sourced income, not on what you earned in your new home country. The New 877A doesn't mention that ten year term.
2013-11-19 07:24:51 PM  
1 vote:

Dinjiin: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Any tax-motivated renunciation is more about avoiding the bizarrely asinine global taxation of the USA and the even-more-asinine and onerous reporting requirements.

I've read that it requires a very specialized tax accountant to prepare income returns for expats overseas.  It isn't uncommon to pay €500+ for the service.  So it is an expensive PITA.

If you're only making €50,000 or less a year, it just doesn't make sense to keep your citizenship if you don't plan on moving back.


when i lived in switzerland i continued to do my taxes as i've always done them: with turbo tax. if you're just a normal worker in a foreign country and dont have holdings all over, a complicated portfolio, real estate back in the us etc its not thaaaat hard to file... its just freakin' annoying as hell.

the real problem is the financial instituions just took a look at th erequirements washington pushed on them and said "welp, judging on how much it'll cost to make the changes necessary to our systems to comply with these requirements, its more cost effective to just terminate the relationship with all our US clients."

people are giving their citizenship to be able to have relationships with their local financial institutions more than they are fleeing the tax man, i'd reckon.
2013-11-19 07:16:45 PM  
1 vote:

Dinjiin: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Any tax-motivated renunciation is more about avoiding the bizarrely asinine global taxation of the USA and the even-more-asinine and onerous reporting requirements.

I've read that it requires a very specialized tax accountant to prepare income returns for expats overseas.  It isn't uncommon to pay €500+ for the service.  So it is an expensive PITA.

If you're only making €50,000 or less a year, it just doesn't make sense to keep your citizenship if you don't plan on moving back.



Yeah, definitely an expensive PITA , especially if there's any financial complexity at all to your life. It isn't even just the income, it's any overseas bank account or investment or business you're involved in, all sorts of madness. You end up reporting the same farking thing on four different forms when there's no real reason for the US to care about it in the first place. It has gotten to the point where some banks etc won't even deal with American expats because then the IRS is trying to climb up THEIR asses too.

Whether it makes sense to keep citizenship, though...that's about more than next year's IRS bullshiat.
2013-11-19 07:12:35 PM  
1 vote:

Marcus Aurelius: The ex-pat reporting requirements are onerous.  If you have any kind of complex business and are living offshore, you must get a lawyer to do your taxes at a considerable expense.  Otherwise you risk forfeiture of assets or worse.  So thank Congress for making crappy laws.



This is exactly the reasons why people renounce their citizenship. Most people don't pay taxes in both countries but it's the needing to file and the penalties levied and potential assets seized that are making people do this.
2013-11-19 07:11:22 PM  
1 vote:
People emigrate to other countries.

News at 11

// Why would you think it was weird? People emigrate here. People emigrate from here
2013-11-19 07:08:57 PM  
1 vote:

sprgrss: misleading headline and article is misleading.

Those expats are paying taxes in America and the country they currently reside.  By renouncing US citizenship, they only pay the taxes of the country of residence and not also the US.


That.  It's a good deal on an individual level if you don't particularly plan to move back to the US.  Why pay the membership fee if you're never going back to the gym?
2013-11-19 07:07:54 PM  
1 vote:

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Any tax-motivated renunciation is more about avoiding the bizarrely asinine global taxation of the USA and the even-more-asinine and onerous reporting requirements.


I've read that it requires a very specialized tax accountant to prepare income returns for expats overseas.  It isn't uncommon to pay €500+ for the service.  So it is an expensive PITA.

If you're only making €50,000 or less a year, it just doesn't make sense to keep your citizenship if you don't plan on moving back.
2013-11-19 07:06:07 PM  
1 vote:
Do you think it might have something to do with America becoming a terrifying police-state?
2013-11-19 06:58:16 PM  
1 vote:
FTA :

Switzerland, the country where singer Tina Turner (pictured) is now a citizen after giving up her U.S. citizenship this past April, collects about 30 percent of its GDP in taxes, low for Europe, but twice as high as in America

Whats GDP got to do - got to do with it?
2013-11-19 06:53:32 PM  
1 vote:

Marcus Aurelius: The ex-pat reporting requirements are onerous.  If you have any kind of complex business and are living offshore, you must get a lawyer to do your taxes at a considerable expense.  Otherwise you risk forfeiture of assets or worse.  So thank Congress for making crappy laws.


if it weren't for crappy laws we wouldn't have any laws at all, and it would be just like Somalia here.
you don't want to live in Somalia do you?
2013-11-19 06:53:18 PM  
1 vote:
images3.wikia.nocookie.net

This also means we can take them out with a drone strike without too much hand wringing.
2013-11-19 06:52:37 PM  
1 vote:
I remember hearing about this being related to changes in filing requirements. People like a American-Swedish mother who moved there to marry 20 years ago being levied that double taxation and facing a bigger CPA bill than tax bill.
2013-11-19 06:48:06 PM  
1 vote:

sprgrss: misleading headline and article is misleading.

Those expats are paying taxes in America and the country they currently reside.  By renouncing US citizenship, they only pay the taxes of the country of residence and not also the US.


This.  They're still paying the high taxes overseas, they just aren't paying our taxes.

/Or more often, they either didn't know or "forgot" to pay the US taxes and now the IRS is after them.
 
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