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(Opposing Views)   Record numbers of Americans are renouncing their U.S. citizenship this year, to dodge U.S. taxes, apparently unaware that U.S. tax rates are almost the lowest in the developed world   (opposingviews.com) divider line 123
    More: Dumbass, U.S. Citizenship, United States, developed country, Americans, record numbers, u.s. taxes, effective tax rates, renunciation of citizenship  
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5624 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Nov 2013 at 6:41 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-19 07:28:58 PM  

Lord Summerisle: Do you think it might have something to do with America becoming a terrifying police-state?


What are you, some kind of Allahcommie?
 
2013-11-19 07:30:20 PM  

llevrok: Jello Fever: Well, if you're a corporation, maybe.

Like Apple (all you IPhone fans) who runs their international sales thru Ireland (who has an way low corporate tax rate) and avoids US taxes.


And IKEA is owned by a charity.

/this just in: the rich right laws to protect the rich.
//these folks are traitors pure and simple. Living in countries with state supported healthcare, good mass transit systems, and lower violent crime rates. Cowards!
 
2013-11-19 07:31:36 PM  

FizixJunkee: I found this bit 'o trivia courtesy of Google:

"Annual premiums for employer-sponsored family health coverage reached $16,351 this year, up 4 percent from last year, with workers on average paying $4,565 towards the cost of their coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation/Health Research & Educational Trust (HRET) 2013 Employer Health Benefits Survey."

So that's about $21,000 a year for health insurance per family.  If we added that $21,000 to our tax bill so that our new "tax" included the cost of socialized medicine, what would our tax rate be then, and how would it compare to places like the UK or Sweden?


shutup with your sensible single payer nonsense, you freedom hating bolshevik
 
2013-11-19 07:36:19 PM  
The irony is delightful how the same people who are completely pro-immigrant are simultaneously completely anti-emigrant
 
2013-11-19 07:36:56 PM  
How do I convince Alec Baldwin to finally leave?
 
2013-11-19 07:36:56 PM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Weeelll... you're still kinda receiving benefits from your tax dollars. When you're in some foreign jail on trumped up political charges, it's good to know the American Embassy's phone number is still connected. Need saving from some pirates, or wrecked your sailboat on the high seas? That U.S. Coast Guard cutter or Navy vessel appears mighty friendly.

/the world's policemen need paid too


Does every American really think that everywhere else in the world is a lawless hellhole where false arrest, piracy, political imprisonment etc happen so often that you have to take that into account when thinking about your tax? If you're a contractor in Iraq or working on an oil rig in Nigeria then maybe your point would be valid.
But I suspect most people we are talking about live in places like Canada, Australia, NZ, the UK, France, Germany etc where human rights are, by and large, equal to the US. And I've got news for you buddy, if you are arrested in one of those countries the USA is not going to send in a SEAL team to break you out or send an aircraft carrier as a threat. What do you really think they will do?

Many other countries have navies, coastguards and search and rescue. In civilised countries we rescue people without first asking if they are a taxpayer.
 
2013-11-19 07:37:04 PM  

FizixJunkee: I found this bit 'o trivia courtesy of Google:

"Annual premiums for employer-sponsored family health coverage reached $16,351 this year, up 4 percent from last year, with workers on average paying $4,565 towards the cost of their coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation/Health Research & Educational Trust (HRET) 2013 Employer Health Benefits Survey."

So that's about $21,000 a year for health insurance per family.  If we added that $21,000 to our tax bill so that our new "tax" included the cost of socialized medicine, what would our tax rate be then, and how would it compare to places like the UK or Sweden?


US GDP per capita is $50K.  So 42%/(average household size).

Except that we have progressive taxes, we're already at 53% marginal taxes (in CA, but still), and when France raised them to 75%, the rich said "See ya".  So any tax would of necessity fall somewhat on the backs of the poor and middle class.  Maybe a nice 20% VAT?  That's regressive enough.
 
2013-11-19 07:37:46 PM  
Who the hell measures how much their tax burden is compared to how much the country as a whole derives its income compared to its GDP?

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
 
2013-11-19 07:39:15 PM  
A lot of Americans are retiring to countries like Mexico, where they can live cheaply but relatively well on their fixed incomes. The British have been doing this for a long time.

I expect this can drive the number of ex-pats dropping their citizenship up very rapidly when your country insists on double-dipping on taxation. Even a shift between the destination countries might drive tax-avoidance. For example, if people are now chosing countries without tax-sharing treaties over countries that have them, there could be a rapid and sizeable shift as the Baby Boomers continue to move into retirement.
 
2013-11-19 07:41:31 PM  

sprgrss: misleading headline and article is misleading.

Those expats are paying taxes in America and the country they currently reside.  By renouncing US citizenship, they only pay the taxes of the country of residence and not also the US.


THIS

Plus the law is getting crazy complicated so even people making modest salaries are having to pay someone to figure out what they owe.

Christ, I'm pretty damn liberal and this headline is still pretty damn stupid.

There was a good BBC article not that long ago that profiled Americans who were renouncing.  Plenty of people were born in the US but hadn't lived here for decades, but kept the citizenship (and paid taxes) just because.  This was finally cause for them to say "f--k it, I'm out".

And from what I know (admittedly  not much, no dog in this fight unless/until the SO claims Irish citizenship he's qualified for) this isn't actually having the intended effect of punishing wealthy tax dodgers which was supposed to be the point.  Ordinary people are just kind of getting screwed and this was the last straw.
 
2013-11-19 07:42:52 PM  

brantgoose: A lot of Americans are retiring to countries like Mexico, where they can live cheaply but relatively well on their fixed incomes. The British have been doing this for a long time.

I expect this can drive the number of ex-pats dropping their citizenship up very rapidly when your country insists on double-dipping on taxation. Even a shift between the destination countries might drive tax-avoidance. For example, if people are now chosing countries without tax-sharing treaties over countries that have them, there could be a rapid and sizeable shift as the Baby Boomers continue to move into retirement.


generally speaking tho the fixed income a typical retiree couple earns will not be enough to put them over the top of the line which will oblige them to pay taxes twice.

again, the big threat to the expats with all this, and why many people are renouncing their citizenship, is as much about being able to interface with the financial systems of the countries in which they live, since many banks and lenders will no longer do business with US citizens because of the reporting requirements.
 
2013-11-19 07:45:02 PM  

Flint Ironstag: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Weeelll... you're still kinda receiving benefits from your tax dollars. When you're in some foreign jail on trumped up political charges, it's good to know the American Embassy's phone number is still connected. Need saving from some pirates, or wrecked your sailboat on the high seas? That U.S. Coast Guard cutter or Navy vessel appears mighty friendly.

/the world's policemen need paid too

Does every American really think that everywhere else in the world is a lawless hellhole where false arrest, piracy, political imprisonment etc happen so often that you have to take that into account when thinking about your tax? If you're a contractor in Iraq or working on an oil rig in Nigeria then maybe your point would be valid.
But I suspect most people we are talking about live in places like Canada, Australia, NZ, the UK, France, Germany etc where human rights are, by and large, equal to the US. And I've got news for you buddy, if you are arrested in one of those countries the USA is not going to send in a SEAL team to break you out or send an aircraft carrier as a threat. What do you really think they will do?

Many other countries have navies, coastguards and search and rescue. In civilised countries we rescue people without first asking if they are a taxpayer.


Actually... it's kind of a law of the sea (well, international conventions anyway) and all of that to rescue who needs rescuing.  Unless you're a cruise ship, in which case, meh.  Or it's a boatload of immigrants, feel free to take your sweet time.
 
2013-11-19 07:47:51 PM  

sprgrss: misleading headline and article is misleading.

Those expats are paying taxes in America and the country they currently reside. By renouncing US citizenship, they only pay the taxes of the country of residence and not also the US.


No.  US tax rules normally avoid double taxation.

llevrok: It's not necessarily about the lowest.

The US is one of the few countries in the world that follows your income.  If you live and work in a foreign country 100%, you pay that country's taxes AND (after an exclusion), US taxes.  So you are doubly taxed, in other words.

On the contrary, a Canadian working in the US (for example) pays NO Canadian taxes.  Only US ones.

The US now also taxes your savings if you are living outside the US and have savings there.  Failure to report has a stiff fine.


Except you normally get a credit for foreign taxes paid.

What's actually going on is that most countries don't tax foreign income.  If your citizenship and income are from different places you're not going to pay much tax unless you're a US citizen.

There's also the abomination called FATCA.  It basically imposes the same reporting requirements on foreign financial institutions that US institutions are now subject to.  Oops, that's a *BIG* hassle for them, all too many are saying "No US customers" instead.  A lot of those who have married a foreigner and have made their lives in the other country are now ditching their US citizenship because it's causing them problems.

TwistedFark: This has absolutely nothing to do with paying taxes.

I live overseas (I am a citizen of both the US and Australia). I pay taxes in Australia as my "tax home" as per US law and I file every year with Uncle Sam. My tax bill to the US government is always zero dollars. Why? Simple: Because I already pay more tax here in Australia than the US government would take.

It's not paying taxes that is a problem for people, because the tax burden isn't actually there - it's the legal requirements for filing.

In a nutshell, they've made it so difficult that you need to engage an expensive accountant just to do personal income tax filing and god help you if you own a business overseas, you're looking at having to lawyer up every year around tax time.

So yeah, I am thinking of handing in my passport, not because of the tax burden, but because they have made it such a pain in the ass. For other people, they 2-4k a year they have to spend on accountants otherwise is just too much cost for them to bear and it makes sense for them to basically wash their hands of the US, otherwise they have to not file (and break the law) or not eat.

Not everyone who lives overseas is super rich - most people I know who are ex-pats hold down normal jobs, or are school teachers.


^^^THIS^^^
 
2013-11-19 07:49:05 PM  
Back to Darwin, stupid leads the intellegence of so many the species is doomed.
 
2013-11-19 07:58:19 PM  
I want to THIS so many posts in this thread I don't know where to start.

This, author of TFA, is what happens when you bother to listen to people who actually know what the fark they're talking about.
 
2013-11-19 08:03:38 PM  
Or maybe they could be trying to avoid being double taxed by the U.S. while they are working in other countries.

The only other country that taxes its non-resident citizens is Best Korea.
 
2013-11-19 08:12:32 PM  

Loren: sprgrss: misleading headline and article is misleading.

Those expats are paying taxes in America and the country they currently reside. By renouncing US citizenship, they only pay the taxes of the country of residence and not also the US.

No.  US tax rules normally avoid double taxation.
On the contrary, a Canadian working in the US (for example) pays NO Canadian taxes.  Only US ones.

The US now also taxes your savings if you are living outside the US and have savings there.  Failure to report has a stiff fine.

Except you normally get a credit for foreign taxes paid.


Up to a point.

I am a US citizen in Canada.  In effect, I get tax relief up to about $80,000.00.  I get taxed by both countries on income over that.  My predecessor was very hard hit by it - no one warned him.
 
2013-11-19 08:21:13 PM  

TomD9938: FTA :

Switzerland, the country where singer Tina Turner (pictured) is now a citizen after giving up her U.S. citizenship this past April, collects about 30 percent of its GDP in taxes, low for Europe, but twice as high as in America

Whats GDP got to do - got to do with it?


Nothing. Who ever wrote that article is trying to troll.
 
2013-11-19 08:23:29 PM  
Perhaps where they are going to live spends their money more wisely? Don't know. They may be just trying to be edgy, or possibly assholes. Ya just don't know do ya?
 
2013-11-19 08:37:55 PM  

meyerkev: sprgrss: misleading headline and article is misleading.

Those expats are paying taxes in America and the country they currently reside.  By renouncing US citizenship, they only pay the taxes of the country of residence and not also the US.

This.  They're still paying the high taxes overseas, they just aren't paying our taxes.

/Or more often, they either didn't know or "forgot" to pay

file the US taxes and now the IRS is after them.

The problem is not paying taxes.  It's having to file taxes.  The US requires that all citizens file tax forms for income generated outside the country.  Ours are considered somewhat painful to file.

They ex-pat generally doesn't have to pay any US taxes - the local taxes are generally higher than the US taxes on income, so no money is owed by the ex-pat in most cases.  But having to file and get all your banks to generate the necessary documentation is a pain in the ass.  Many financial institutions will say "No thanks" if you want to open an account.  They don't want to deal with Uncle Sam, and they don't have to since they are a foreign financial institution that would otherwise have no dealings with the US government beyond the occasional money laundering investigation.

So ex-patriots face a terrible situation - deal with mounds of paperwork and annoyances in the financial world, or switch teams.  If you are never planning on heading back to the US, opting out of the paperwork does make some sense.
 
2013-11-19 08:39:39 PM  

llevrok: So you are doubly taxed, in other words.


No.

You end up being taxed at the higher of the two rates, and if the country you earned the income in happens to have a lower rate, you end up paying that country what it is owed, and the difference to the US.

This is not double taxation.
 
2013-11-19 08:44:30 PM  

Flint Ironstag: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: Weeelll... you're still kinda receiving benefits from your tax dollars. When you're in some foreign jail on trumped up political charges, it's good to know the American Embassy's phone number is still connected. Need saving from some pirates, or wrecked your sailboat on the high seas? That U.S. Coast Guard cutter or Navy vessel appears mighty friendly.

/the world's policemen need paid too

Does every American really think that everywhere else in the world is a lawless hellhole where false arrest, piracy, political imprisonment etc happen so often that you have to take that into account when thinking about your tax? If you're a contractor in Iraq or working on an oil rig in Nigeria then maybe your point would be valid.
But I suspect most people we are talking about live in places like Canada, Australia, NZ, the UK, France, Germany etc where human rights are, by and large, equal to the US. And I've got news for you buddy, if you are arrested in one of those countries the USA is not going to send in a SEAL team to break you out or send an aircraft carrier as a threat. What do you really think they will do?

Many other countries have navies, coastguards and search and rescue. In civilised countries we rescue people without first asking if they are a taxpayer.


Unless they are brown or black.
 
2013-11-19 08:48:16 PM  
I was gonna say: Bank robbers don't tend to stick around after the robbery. But in our case, I don't think they're anywhere near finished with the robbery.
 
2013-11-19 08:48:35 PM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: When you're in some foreign jail on trumped up political charges, it's good to know the American Embassy's phone number is still connected. Need saving from some pirates, or wrecked your sailboat on the high seas? That U.S. Coast Guard cutter or Navy vessel appears mighty friendly.


This might be news to you, but other countries have embassies and navies, too. Consular services and maritime rescue are hardly some unique privileges of Americans.
 
2013-11-19 08:48:48 PM  

Adss2009: The US is also one of the few countries that collects taxes on you if you're a citizen living abroad. They're paying taxes twice. Once to their resident country and once to the US. Hence why if you're living abroad you would renounce citizenship: to save that tax money.


Came here to say this. The United States is the only country that collects taxes if you live and work in another country. And the idea that U.S. charges higher taxes than only Mexico, Chile and Argentina is completely laughable. Taxes measured as a percentage of GDP is meaningless at the individual level.

The Facebook guy that went to Singapore is smart. Their top tax rate is 20%. The country is awash in cash, with no debt. Their banks are amongst the best capitalized in the world.
 
2013-11-19 08:53:30 PM  

MadHatter500: The problem is not paying taxes.  It's having to file taxes.  The US requires that all citizens file tax forms for income generated outside the country.  Ours are considered somewhat painful to file.


Especially compared to countries like the UK where "filing taxes" is something that the average person just doesn't have to do. Employers calculate income tax and send it straight to the government. What you get paid into your bank is yours. Millions of people can get from eighteen to retirement without ever having to fill out a tax return or even think about paying tax.
 
2013-11-19 09:00:23 PM  
Flint Ironstag:

Does every American really think that everywhere else in the world is a lawless hellhole where false arrest, piracy, political imprisonment etc happen so often that you have to take that into account when thinking about your tax?... And I've got news for you buddy, if you are arrested in one of those countries the USA is not going to send in a SEAL team to break you out or send an aircraft carrier as a threat. What do you really think they will do?

Many other countries have navies, coastguards and search and rescue. In civilised countries we rescue people without first asking if they are a taxpayer.


Yeah. It's one of the sadder things about the majority of the population, they go completely off the rails when they think about leaving the cradle of US soil. Mentally, the majority of Americans have a "here be dragons" thing going when they look at distant regions on a globe. I think it's deliberate conditioning in education and entertainment - can't have your herd jumping the fence for greener grass.
 
2013-11-19 09:02:00 PM  

BSABSVR: 560 people?  Why it's a stampede.


Did the Hollywood folks who claimed they were gonna leave the country when bush was president finally liquidate their assets and do as promised?

/thanks a lot Obama
 
2013-11-19 09:04:39 PM  
mr_larry:

The Facebook guy that went to Singapore is smart. Their top tax rate is 20%. The country is awash in cash, with no debt. Their banks are amongst the best capitalized in the world.

They also speak excellent English and bang like firecrackers.

i62.photobucket.com
 
2013-11-19 09:10:56 PM  

Churchill2004: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: When you're in some foreign jail on trumped up political charges, it's good to know the American Embassy's phone number is still connected. Need saving from some pirates, or wrecked your sailboat on the high seas? That U.S. Coast Guard cutter or Navy vessel appears mighty friendly.

This might be news to you, but other countries have embassies and navies, too. Consular services and maritime rescue are hardly some unique privileges of Americans.


And frankly, the US isn't much inclined to look after its foreign nationals.   Including those that are overseas on official business.
 
2013-11-19 09:31:48 PM  
Hasn't anyone figured out the real reason behind this dumb sh*t?
This is not about taxes, since the financial stability needed to pick up and move to another country shows that you can indeed afford to pay comparatively low US taxes.

No, it's the n*****s. Most of the people I know who've made noises about leaving this country and moving elsewhere aren't concerned about the taxes as an abstract concept, but the fact that some of the money they pay for those taxes might go to help people they don't like. Those people are usually tarred (pun intended) with that particular racial epithet, one of many.

If it isn't blacks, it's Mexicans.
If it isn't Mexicans, it's young people.
If it isn't young people, it's unmarried women with kids.
And so on and so on. There's always one group of people who aren't "them" that fuels their ire every time the possibility arises that some of their tax money might be helping anyone in that group.
 
2013-11-19 09:45:08 PM  

rewind2846: Hasn't anyone figured out the real reason behind this dumb sh*t?
This is not about taxes, since the financial stability needed to pick up and move to another country shows that you can indeed afford to pay comparatively low US taxes.

No, it's the n*****s. Most of the people I know who've made noises about leaving this country and moving elsewhere aren't concerned about the taxes as an abstract concept, but the fact that some of the money they pay for those taxes might go to help people they don't like. Those people are usually tarred (pun intended) with that particular racial epithet, one of many.

If it isn't blacks, it's Mexicans.
If it isn't Mexicans, it's young people.
If it isn't young people, it's unmarried women with kids.
And so on and so on. There's always one group of people who aren't "them" that fuels their ire every time the possibility arises that some of their tax money might be helping anyone in that group.



Bull. Farking. shiat.

US resident teabaggers "who've made noises" have nothing to do with Americans living overseas.
 
2013-11-19 09:46:21 PM  
I'm sure you understand more about their personal tax situation than they do, subby, you dumb shiat.
 
2013-11-19 09:46:45 PM  

Adss2009: The US is also one of the few countries that collects taxes on you if you're a citizen living abroad. They're paying taxes twice. Once to their resident country and once to the US. Hence why if you're living abroad you would renounce citizenship: to save that tax money.


As a married filer I got the first hundred k tax free and could claim Japanese taxes as a credit against my US taxes as I recall. Not that I ever had to worry about that second part.

I understand also that if you renounce your citizenship you'd better never spend a month in the US again or it gets reinstated retroactively, along with the taxes owed. Not sure where I read that though.
 
2013-11-19 09:47:32 PM  
Well, looks like I'll need to start saving up my bribe money and schmoozing up to politicians for when the rest of the country goes single-payer with them, and I'm giving "gifts" in "thanks" for medical care.

Just like I'd need to bribe somebody in Chicago to get my kid into the right school:  https://web.archive.org/web/20100325194328/http://www.chicagobreaking n ews.com/2010/03/duncans-staff-kept-list-of-politicians-school-requests .html

America is fundamentally about government owned by the people, not the other way around.

/BTW, was that ever debunked?  It seems to just have disappeared from Google except for the right-wing blogs that were screaming about it.  And I don't trust them to post debunking.
 
2013-11-19 09:48:14 PM  

meyerkev: Well, looks like I'll need to start saving up my bribe money and schmoozing up to politicians for when the rest of the country goes single-payer with them, and I'm giving "gifts" in "thanks" for medical care.

Just like I'd need to bribe somebody in Chicago to get my kid into the right school:  https://web.archive.org/web/20100325194328/http://www.chicagobreaking n ews.com/2010/03/duncans-staff-kept-list-of-politicians-school-requests .html

America is fundamentally about government owned by the people, not the other way around.

/BTW, was that ever debunked?  It seems to just have disappeared from Google except for the right-wing blogs that were screaming about it.  And I don't trust them to post debunking.


Hey, wrong thread.  How fun.
 
2013-11-19 09:53:43 PM  

Dinjiin: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Any tax-motivated renunciation is more about avoiding the bizarrely asinine global taxation of the USA and the even-more-asinine and onerous reporting requirements.

I've read that it requires a very specialized tax accountant to prepare income returns for expats overseas.  It isn't uncommon to pay €500+ for the service.  So it is an expensive PITA.

If you're only making €50,000 or less a year, it just doesn't make sense to keep your citizenship if you don't plan on moving back.


I did my own by hand every year in about an hour. Made around $70k before tax for a married couple filing jointly, no dependents, and paid zero US tax.
 
2013-11-19 09:58:51 PM  

Koodz: Adss2009: The US is also one of the few countries that collects taxes on you if you're a citizen living abroad. They're paying taxes twice. Once to their resident country and once to the US. Hence why if you're living abroad you would renounce citizenship: to save that tax money.

As a married filer I got the first hundred k tax free and could claim Japanese taxes as a credit against my US taxes as I recall. Not that I ever had to worry about that second part.



Theoretically you can be double-taxed but, in practice, treaties and US tax law normally keep that from happening. If you're somehow making a farkton of money in an... unusual location, then it may be a problem.


I understand also that if you renounce your citizenship you'd better never spend a month in the US again or it gets reinstated retroactively, along with the taxes owed. Not sure where I read that though.

Nope.
 
2013-11-19 10:00:46 PM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Koodz: Adss2009: The US is also one of the few countries that collects taxes on you if you're a citizen living abroad. They're paying taxes twice. Once to their resident country and once to the US. Hence why if you're living abroad you would renounce citizenship: to save that tax money.

As a married filer I got the first hundred k tax free and could claim Japanese taxes as a credit against my US taxes as I recall. Not that I ever had to worry about that second part.


Theoretically you can be double-taxed but, in practice, treaties and US tax law normally keep that from happening. If you're somehow making a farkton of money in an... unusual location, then it may be a problem.


I understand also that if you renounce your citizenship you'd better never spend a month in the US again or it gets reinstated retroactively, along with the taxes owed. Not sure where I read that though.

Nope.


So you can renounce, then come back and it's all good? Somehow I can't believe Uncle Sam doesn't kick you in the nuts for that.
 
2013-11-19 10:10:17 PM  

Koodz: So you can renounce, then come back and it's all good? Somehow I can't believe Uncle Sam doesn't kick you in the nuts for that.


So you can renounce, and then have to deal with whatever headaches any other foreigner would have to to come here, maybe a little more.

My cousin-in-law renounced earlier this year and he knows he'll never be able to step foot in the U.S. again.
 
2013-11-19 10:29:45 PM  

MadHatter500: llevrok: So you are doubly taxed, in other words.

No.

You end up being taxed at the higher of the two rates, and if the country you earned the income in happens to have a lower rate, you end up paying that country what it is owed, and the difference to the US.

This is not double taxation.


I use to work/live in Sweden- the tax rate was much higher than the US but it was even harder finding a bank to do business with me. Thankfully my office had a US branch and a stake in a local bank so they were the only game in town. Filing and paying for an accountant to deal with draconian US tax law wasn't cheap either. 1500$ later and I was "compliant" as best I could read it. God help me if I ever get audited. All for the pleasure of paying Swedish taxes. At least the girls were hot.

/Västerås rocks biatches!
 
2013-11-19 10:31:49 PM  

rewind2846: Hasn't anyone figured out the real reason behind this dumb sh*t?
This is not about taxes, since the financial stability needed to pick up and move to another country shows that you can indeed afford to pay comparatively low US taxes.

No, it's the n*****s. Most of the people I know who've made noises about leaving this country and moving elsewhere aren't concerned about the taxes as an abstract concept, but the fact that some of the money they pay for those taxes might go to help people they don't like. Those people are usually tarred (pun intended) with that particular racial epithet, one of many.

If it isn't blacks, it's Mexicans.
If it isn't Mexicans, it's young people.
If it isn't young people, it's unmarried women with kids.
And so on and so on. There's always one group of people who aren't "them" that fuels their ire every time the possibility arises that some of their tax money might be helping anyone in that group.


For me it's the US government and ridiculous military expensditures but hey sure- everyone everywhere is racist, always.

/dumbass
 
2013-11-19 10:33:03 PM  
I'm sure it's been said but no, you are not taxed twice if your country of residence has a tax treaty with the US. That's most countries in the world AFAIK. What happens is that all the tax you pay in your country of residence is deducted from the tax you owe as a US citizen. Since most countries have higher taxes than the US the average person wouldn't owe any US tax. However, filing two returns is a royal pain in the butt, I'm sure. This is one reason why I will never become a US citizen. When I go back to the motherland to retire I would have to file double returns every year or go through the hassle of renouncing citizenship. As a DINK there are no real benefits to becoming a US citizen over being a permanent resident anyways.

I'm surprised that US citizens would actually renounce. This seems like a very, very bad idea to me. You will never be able to come home. That may not seem like a big deal today, but how about in 20 years when all kinds of stuff has changed? Are you really, super 100% positive you would never want to live in the US again? Doubtful.

Disclaimer: I am not a tax attorney and I did not stay at a Best Western last night.
 
2013-11-19 10:39:44 PM  

Cheops: Churchill2004: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: When you're in some foreign jail on trumped up political charges, it's good to know the American Embassy's phone number is still connected. Need saving from some pirates, or wrecked your sailboat on the high seas? That U.S. Coast Guard cutter or Navy vessel appears mighty friendly.

This might be news to you, but other countries have embassies and navies, too. Consular services and maritime rescue are hardly some unique privileges of Americans.

And frankly, the US isn't much inclined to look after its foreign nationals.   Including those that are overseas on official business.


I am dual citizen with Colombia and the US. When I live overseas and work in Colombia I have to pay no US taxes.  Also, when in Colombia I am Colombian so I cannot run to the embassy.

I was there and my mother got sick and I had to return to the states.  My passport was expired, I went to the Embassy, and they expedited me one in 3 days due to US citizenship, they took care of me when they could have denied me.
 
2013-11-19 10:41:10 PM  

llevrok: It's not necessarily about the lowest.

The US is one of the few countries in the world that follows your income.  If you live and work in a foreign country 100%, you pay that country's taxes AND (after an exclusion), US taxes.  So you are doubly taxed, in other words.

On the contrary, a Canadian working in the US (for example) pays NO Canadian taxes.  Only US ones.

The US now also taxes your savings if you are living outside the US and have savings there.  Failure to report has a stiff fine.

Canadians travelling extensively, living or working abroad must still pay Canadian, and provincial or territorial, income taxes. It is important that you know your residency status and the income tax rules that apply to you while you are outside Canada.
Actually, no.
 
2013-11-19 10:41:43 PM  
Ha ha, welcome to globalization.  Your government is now another commodity.  Don't like the ______?  Move to a place where you do.  No one is going to wait a whole generation or 5 for some sort of change.  In fact, I'm willing to bet people will pay extra for a place they are comfortable in.

I think the ultimate fark you would be if China drastically improved their human rights and electoral process and offered everything the US offered but for less money.
 
2013-11-19 10:46:44 PM  

llevrok: It's not necessarily about the lowest.

The US is one of the few countries in the world that follows your income.  If you live and work in a foreign country 100%, you pay that country's taxes AND (after an exclusion), US taxes.  So you are doubly taxed, in other words.


Unless you are some sort of fortune 500 company, then they get confused.  It's not like they have much to gain in taxes from these companies anyway.
 
2013-11-19 10:59:05 PM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: US resident teabaggers "who've made noises" have nothing to do with Americans living overseas.


The ones who have made noises stay.
The ones who have done more than make noise leave.
Who's to say that they don't believe the same thing?
Plenty of people leave due to other factors, but only a certain percentage leave due to "THE TAXXESSSSSS!!!"
Those are the ones who are the focus of the article.
 
2013-11-19 11:06:06 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: For me it's the US government and ridiculous military expensditures but hey sure- everyone everywhere is racist, always.


Yes. Yes they are. Drop into your local anti-tax rally sometime. Plenty of them around election day, and they advertise.

 
2013-11-19 11:24:50 PM  

rewind2846: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: US resident teabaggers "who've made noises" have nothing to do with Americans living overseas.

The ones who have made noises stay.
The ones who have done more than make noise leave.
Who's to say that they don't believe the same thing?
Plenty of people leave due to other factors, but only a certain percentage leave due to "THE TAXXESSSSSS!!!"
Those are the ones who are the focus of the article.


Plenty of people leave or move around for many reasons.   But The US is one of very few countries which still taxes citizens who live abroad.  There are a lot of business-friendly jurisdictions with lower taxes, yet only americans get penalized with a top-up.   Hence there's an incentive for an american who already is comfortably living abroad, to renounce his citizenship and be treated the same as his peers where he lives.
 
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