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(Some ACA Wonk)   Despite its many flaws, at least ObamaCare protects people against medical bankruptcy...(reads fine print)... OH COME ON   (nakedcapitalism.com) divider line 265
    More: Asinine, obamacare, Families USA, America's Health Insurance Plans, HMO, anesthesiologists, HAMP  
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2415 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Nov 2013 at 1:20 PM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-19 10:04:10 PM

BeesNuts: And I will find many, many more who are critical of ACA and will immediately shut their pretty little mouths into thin, mealy smiles when the next unfunded medicare/medicaid expansion gets shoved through by a Republican president.


Quite probably. there are always binary politicos who swear allegiance to party over evaluating policy. I find them to be in roughly equal numbers with willfully blind partisan zealots equally distributed between the two parties. One could equally counter that for all the people foaming at the mouth rabid in their hatred of Bush over the Patriot act and civil rights violations, they are remarkably acquiescent about "their team's guy" doing massive NSA spying, warrantless wiretapping and a secret kill list used to kill American citizens without due process.

So I would be cautious of claiming any "my side/ your side" superiority in terms of objective criticisms. But then again, I advise against party allegiances in the first place, so we may have differing views on the topic.

Dedmon: Would you like to copy and paste the exact words of the affordable care act that you would say is among the problems? I hear all of these horrible stories, that always turn out to be lies, but I never hear you, Hannity, Beck, or anyone really actually say WHAT is actually so BAD about the affordable care act?


I can't speak to what asshat paid provocateurs like Beck and Hannity spew, but if you would like some actual examples of the flaws in ACA, I would recommend that you start with the article of this thread?
 
2013-11-19 10:28:13 PM
 
2013-11-19 11:21:46 PM

BojanglesPaladin: BeesNuts: And I will find many, many more who are critical of ACA and will immediately shut their pretty little mouths into thin, mealy smiles when the next unfunded medicare/medicaid expansion gets shoved through by a Republican president.

Quite probably. there are always binary politicos who swear allegiance to party over evaluating policy. I find them to be in roughly equal numbers with willfully blind partisan zealots equally distributed between the two parties. One could equally counter that for all the people foaming at the mouth rabid in their hatred of Bush over the Patriot act and civil rights violations, they are remarkably acquiescent about "their team's guy" doing massive NSA spying, warrantless wiretapping and a secret kill list used to kill American citizens without due process.

So I would be cautious of claiming any "my side/ your side" superiority in terms of objective criticisms. But then again, I advise against party allegiances in the first place, so we may have differing views on the topic.

Dedmon: Would you like to copy and paste the exact words of the affordable care act that you would say is among the problems? I hear all of these horrible stories, that always turn out to be lies, but I never hear you, Hannity, Beck, or anyone really actually say WHAT is actually so BAD about the affordable care act?

I can't speak to what asshat paid provocateurs like Beck and Hannity spew, but if you would like some actual examples of the flaws in ACA, I would recommend that you start with the article of this thread?


No, really, point to the parts of the law itself that you disagree with. If you want to be listened to, you need to be constructive, not reactionary. The article addresses a problem, but hasn't pointed to what clause in the bill is forcing the situation. Perhaps it could be changed, if necessary, if the republicans wish to participate in the governing process.
 
2013-11-19 11:27:50 PM

Dedmon: No, really, point to the parts of the law itself that you disagree with

I

I'm not sure what conversation you think you are having, but perhaps you should review earlier comments in the thread. In particular, you may notice that many of my criticism are about what is ABSENT from the bill, including things like protections from 'balance billing'.
 
2013-11-20 12:17:01 AM

bradkanus: DamnYankees: While the issue in TFA is a problem, it has absolutely nothing to do with Obamacare. It's just a general problem with the medical industry. Should we fix it? Sure. But "Obamacare failed to fix this pre-existing issue which was already broken" isn't much of an argument; Obamacare isn't a panacea.

Not a "panacea?"  Uh, then what were you so excited about when it passed?  It seems like a lot of people who cheered on the law because they are partisan before they are anything else, are now backpeddling on the law.

You guys said it was good.

It's not.

Move on.


Because it was great before we started mucking with it, eh?
 
2013-11-20 01:27:54 AM

BojanglesPaladin: if you would like some actual examples of the flaws in ACA, I would recommend that you start with the article of this thread?


The article could be summarized as "here's a problem with insurance that the ACA only partially resolves".  That's not really a "flaw" in the law.  It makes things better, but of course it isn't going to fully resolve every problem with the healthcare industry.

 

bintherdunthat: www.upi.com/blog/2013/05/29/Maine-doctor-cuts-prices-in-half-by-refus i ng-health-insurance/3571369847964/?spt=mps&or=2


Part of that is that the 'before' prices were quite high.  $70 is about the national average for a routine office visit at a typical level of service.

But yes, the level of overhead added by dealing with insurance can be staggering for a small practice.  It's one of the reasons small practices are dying out, as providers are absorbed into larger and larger groups - there's an economy of scale that the smaller clinics just can't compete with.  The clinics that see half a dozen people a day are going the way of mom & pop stores.
 
2013-11-20 01:41:06 AM

BojanglesPaladin: In particular, you may notice that many of my criticism are about what is ABSENT from the bill, including things like protections from 'balance billing'.


Do you think Congress could have actually passed a law which would effectively mandate what prices doctors could charge for their services - or that it would pass Constitutional muster if they did?  Even for as broad as the commerce clause is, I don't think the current Supreme Court would let that stand.

The only comparable precedents at the federal level were the wage and price controls during WW2, which almost certainly would have been legally challenged if the country hadn't been at war.
 
2013-11-20 05:40:06 AM
I don't get this Obamacare at all.

network of doctors that you are allowed to use?
Still have a co-pay?
out of pocket pay of above 6k if you are single?

How shiatty was your health care if that is an improvement?

/obviously not American
 
2013-11-20 06:01:16 AM

BKITU: bradkanus: It seems like a lot of people who cheered on the law because they are partisan before they are anything else, are now backpeddling on the law.

Today, in "Morons Seeing What They Want To See Theater"....


Except my insurance has always negotiated with the hospital and each physician independently.  My wife had a procedure (test) and I still got bills from people that I have no idea even who the hell they were.  That's not right.

One time I went to the emergency room and the wife needed care and they took us back pretty fast.  We set there in the room for over 2 hours waiting.  They came in, treated my wife and then when the bill came in we got a bill for "exteded emergency room visit".  It had nothing to do with the procedure and everything to do with the hospital raping our insurance (and me in the process).  Of course, this was before the ACA so I wonder how they're going to go crazy when a story comes out about that. 

I guess I'll wait.
 
2013-11-20 06:29:39 AM

BojanglesPaladin: Dedmon: No, really, point to the parts of the law itself that you disagree with

I I'm not sure what conversation you think you are having, but perhaps you should review earlier comments in the thread. In particular, you may notice that many of my criticism are about what is ABSENT from the bill, including things like protections from 'balance billing'.


I think I'm hitting on something profound here. Are you saying there's nothing wrong with the bill as written, and it should instead be supplemented with additional laws to further expand its scope?
 
2013-11-20 10:50:22 AM

Dedmon: I never hear [someone else], Hannity, Beck, or anyone really actually say WHAT is actually so BAD about the affordable care act?


I read an analysis once, from people who interviewed actual Republicans and tried to take them seriously, and this is the gist.

Inside the right-wing reality bubble:
- America is 47% moochers.
- Obamacare is a new entitlement program.
- It will push America over the 50%-moocher tipping point.
- After this point, since moochers are reliable Democratic voters, Republicans will be unable to affect policy.
- After this point, the country will collapse due to moocher death spiral as everyone votes for more and more "free stuff"
- Therefore, Obamacare is a threat to the very existence of America.
 
2013-11-20 02:08:51 PM

Gaseous Anomaly: Dedmon: I never hear [someone else], Hannity, Beck, or anyone really actually say WHAT is actually so BAD about the affordable care act?

I read an analysis once, from people who interviewed actual Republicans and tried to take them seriously, and this is the gist.

Inside the right-wing reality bubble:
- America is 47% moochers.
- Obamacare is a new entitlement program.
- It will push America over the 50%-moocher tipping point.
- After this point, since moochers are reliable Democratic voters, Republicans will be unable to affect policy.
- After this point, the country will collapse due to moocher death spiral as everyone votes for more and more "free stuff"
- Therefore, Obamacare is a threat to the very existence of America.


What?  no "looters" in the equation?   You'd think that looter influence, if not raw numbers, would provide at least 3% more to the "moocher" side.
 
2013-11-20 03:22:33 PM

Dedmon: I think I'm hitting on something profound here.


I think you are wrong.
 
2013-11-20 09:13:10 PM
 

BojanglesPaladin: Dedmon: I think I'm hitting on something profound here.

I think you are wrong.


Are you saying there's nothing wrong with the bill as written, and it should instead be supplemented with additional laws to further expand its scope?
 
2013-11-20 09:23:53 PM

Dedmon: Are you saying there's nothing wrong with the bill as written, and it should instead be supplemented with additional laws to further expand its scope?


That sounds like something you would say, and doesn't resemble anything I have said.

What I would say, I did. In the thread above. Which you are welcome to review.

Have a pleasant evening.
 
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