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(Opposing Views)   What's a conservative? A liberal who's been mugged. What's a liberal? A conservative who's done three years in federal prison   (opposingviews.com) divider line 90
    More: Ironic, tough guys, Kerik, minimum sentence, Brennan Center for Justice  
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5772 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Nov 2013 at 9:10 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-19 09:12:59 AM  
How pithy.
 
2013-11-19 09:13:59 AM  
To be fair, he's from New Yawk. Even Rudy Giuliani did nine or eleven things today's GOP would consider too liberal for them.
 
2013-11-19 09:14:39 AM  
Thank you for the NSFW pop up ads that get through both AdBlock and FlashBlock, Opposing Views.

shiatheads.
 
2013-11-19 09:15:25 AM  
""I had no idea that for 5 grams of cocaine, which is what that nickel weighs, 5 grams, you could be sentenced to 10 years in prison "

You were a police commissioner and you didn't know your cops were enforcing asinine drug laws?
 
2013-11-19 09:16:22 AM  
I wish Bernie Kerik were less interested in prison reform and more interested in not being alive anymore.
 
2013-11-19 09:18:04 AM  
Real conservatives get pretrial diversion.
 
2013-11-19 09:20:29 AM  
Kerik suggested that no one can understand the horror of this system without spending time behind bars. Perhaps that is too drastic. But we can learn from Kerik's perspective. It should not take a stint in prison for someone to oppose mass incarceration.

DUH!
 
2013-11-19 09:20:50 AM  

AngryDragon: Thank you for the NSFW pop up ads that get through both AdBlock and FlashBlock, Opposing Views.

shiatheads.


THIS

Why is Fark still linking to this shiat hole site?
 
2013-11-19 09:20:54 AM  
Farking hypocrite wingnut.

But I repeat myself.
 
2013-11-19 09:20:55 AM  

AngryDragon: Thank you for the NSFW pop up ads that get through both AdBlock and FlashBlock, Opposing Views.

shiatheads.


I'm sure the folks down at the gas station have seen worse. GBTW.
 
2013-11-19 09:21:17 AM  
I often wondered where the phrase "five will get you ten" came from.
 
2013-11-19 09:22:21 AM  
So if we throw all conservatives in jail for three years, they'll come out liberal?

Worth a try!
 
2013-11-19 09:22:25 AM  
So very much of anyone's personal political viewpoint is based on situational ethics and morals.  My situational ethics and morals are based on an extremely atypical series of life events, and, thusly, my political viewpoint is skewed (heh) into an almost unrecognizable world view when considered by a more average person, i.e., a person who intellectually proceeds, physically unencumbered, through the academic training process that is germane only to their IQ limitations. Cut me some slack.  I've earned it.  I'll try to play nice, too....

The article is spot on, and encouraging.  Get rid of the farkin' mandatory minimums and get more pragmatic, especially relative to weed and other street drugs.
 
2013-11-19 09:22:43 AM  
Kerik got out this past May a changed man. While in prison, he saw first-hand the upside-down insanity of the criminal justice system on which he'd built his life and previous reputation. Kerik is now on the media circuit, not in an attempt to rebuild his personal reputation, but as a born-again reformer who now sees the injustice in mandatory sentencing laws.


This is how I imagine it would happen for many "Conservatives" if they were actually forced to live outside of their protective bubbles.
 
2013-11-19 09:23:15 AM  
Yeah so the tough guy can dish it out but can't handle it? fark him.
 
2013-11-19 09:23:50 AM  

lantawa: So very much of anyone's personal political viewpoint is based on situational ethics and morals.  My situational ethics and morals are based on an extremely atypical series of life events, and, thusly, my political viewpoint is skewed (heh) into an almost unrecognizable world view when considered by a more average person, i.e., a person who intellectually proceeds, physically unencumbered, through the academic training process that is germane only to their IQ limitations. Cut me some slack.  I've earned it.  I'll try to play nice, too....

The article is spot on, and encouraging.  Get rid of the farkin' mandatory minimums and get more pragmatic, especially relative to weed and other street drugs.


Arn't you the guy who thinks the President is a Muslim?

A simple yes or no answer please.
 
2013-11-19 09:25:20 AM  
What's a conservative? A liberal who's been mugged. What's a liberal? A conservative who's done three years in federal prisonhad his job sent to China so some obscenely rich psychopath can get even richer.
 
2013-11-19 09:26:41 AM  

PunGent: Farking hypocrite wingnut.

But I repeat myself.


I don't know that I'd go with hypocrite.  He had an opinion, he had an experience that showed him how wrongheaded that opinion was, and now he rejects his earlier opinion.  That's just learning a life lesson, not hypocricy.  It'd only be hypocricy if he were arguing that the same restrictions should be kept for everyone else, just not for him.
 
2013-11-19 09:27:03 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Yeah so the tough guy can dish it out but can't handle it? fark him.


This.

The last person anyone should be listening to is someone who changed their mind just because they had the tables turned on them. He was/is probably wrong on both sides.
 
2013-11-19 09:27:28 AM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: This is how I imagine it would happen for many "Conservatives" if they were actually forced to live outside of their protective bubbles.


Like how the various prominent conservatives who are supportive of gay marriage only came to that position when one of their kids turned out to be gay and the issue suddenly affected them on a close personal level.
 
2013-11-19 09:27:55 AM  
Thing is, this guy is hardly an exception.  I think the lesson lost here is that Americans, liberal and conservative alike, are generally just far too stupid to learn from the mistakes of others.  If something is particularly, unbelievably and proven to be asinine beyond all reason, we have to try it anyway before we get any sense of perspective.

This is what happens when you ridicule intelligence and empathy for 30 relentless goddamn years.
 
2013-11-19 09:28:03 AM  
My father's sister was a pot smoking liberal, peace corps volunteer but then married and became rather wealthy now she totes the GOP party line and actually tried to defend Paul Ryan to me at the last family wedding. I lol'd and asked her what happened to her hippie personality and she discontinued the conversation.
 
2013-11-19 09:28:54 AM  

dryknife: I often wondered where the phrase "five will get you ten" came from.


Damn, you come from a lax place. Our rule was "fifteen will get you twenty".
 
2013-11-19 09:29:04 AM  
"How do you tell a Communist?
Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin.
And how do you tell an anti-Communist?
It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
 
2013-11-19 09:29:14 AM  

Heliovdrake: lantawa: So very much of anyone's personal political viewpoint is based on situational ethics and morals.  My situational ethics and morals are based on an extremely atypical series of life events, and, thusly, my political viewpoint is skewed (heh) into an almost unrecognizable world view when considered by a more average person, i.e., a person who intellectually proceeds, physically unencumbered, through the academic training process that is germane only to their IQ limitations. Cut me some slack.  I've earned it.  I'll try to play nice, too....

The article is spot on, and encouraging.  Get rid of the farkin' mandatory minimums and get more pragmatic, especially relative to weed and other street drugs.

Arn't you the guy who thinks the President is a Muslim?

A simple yes or no answer please.


No. But I do think he's an asshole....
 
2013-11-19 09:29:24 AM  
I'm a right-winger, and I believe drug use is basically none of the government's business, and the 'War on drugs' is immoral in terms of intrusion on one's personal life and the violence it causes.

The only reason the 'war on drugs' continues is because it's a massive police employment program; threaten to kill it and you threaten the jobs of 100,000 cops who will trot out doomsday scenerios and kids from broken drug-addled homes as an argument to preserve their jobs and overtime.

I also think, if/where legalization occurs, all levels of government shouldn't excessively tax narcotics; as that would perpetuate the black market.
 
2013-11-19 09:29:50 AM  

sammyk: Kerik suggested that no one can understand the horror of this system without spending time behind bars.


I'm sure we've all been through a TSA "checkpoint".
 
2013-11-19 09:30:00 AM  
It's like when they changetheir tune on gay marriage when their own kid comes out of the closet.
 
2013-11-19 09:31:25 AM  

lantawa: No. But I do think he's an asshole....


Haven't you heard? It's racist to criticize a half-black president.
 
2013-11-19 09:33:11 AM  

bopis: Quantum Apostrophe: Yeah so the tough guy can dish it out but can't handle it? fark him.

This.

The last person anyone should be listening to is someone who changed their mind just because they had the tables turned on them. He was/is probably wrong on both sides.



I disagree. Dislike him all you want too for his position prior to his arrest, but why disregard his opinion now that he is on the right side of the issue? Don't allow your feelings to cloud your logic. If your objective is to change things for everyone he could be a huge asset. If your goal is to biatch about it and wish bad things on him, that's your right. I just don't know how productive it is.
 
2013-11-19 09:33:27 AM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Kerik got out this past May a changed man. While in prison, he saw first-hand the upside-down insanity of the criminal justice system on which he'd built his life and previous reputation. Kerik is now on the media circuit, not in an attempt to rebuild his personal reputation, but as a born-again reformer who now sees the injustice in mandatory sentencing laws.


This is how I imagine it would happen for many "Conservatives" if they were actually forced to live outside of their protective bubbles.


Do you even know any conservatives? Something like 95% of blacks vote liberal -- a rate slightly higher than Ivy league colleges, San Francisco, or the borough of Manhattan.
 
2013-11-19 09:34:21 AM  

Target Builder: ""I had no idea that for 5 grams of cocaine, which is what that nickel weighs, 5 grams, you could be sentenced to 10 years in prison "

You were a police commissioner and you didn't know your cops were enforcing asinine drug laws?


Probably thought it was "the right thing to do".  Cops only socialize with other cops, not people that are busted for drug laws, so likely he did have no idea what life for the rest of us is like.
 
2013-11-19 09:34:51 AM  

dfenstrate: lantawa: No. But I do think he's an asshole....

Haven't you heard? It's racist to criticize a half-black president.


Yeah, dammit.  But white folk really lost out in the racial draft when Obama went to the black folk side, heh.....
 
2013-11-19 09:35:10 AM  

monoski: My father's sister was a pot smoking liberal, peace corps volunteer but then married and became rather wealthy now she totes the GOP party line and actually tried to defend Paul Ryan to me at the last family wedding.


ticklemevintage.files.wordpress.com

What toting the party line might look like.
 
2013-11-19 09:37:24 AM  
And what's a man? A miserable little pile of secrets?
 
2013-11-19 09:37:28 AM  
So a criminal is whining jail isn't fun? Meh.
 
2013-11-19 09:42:39 AM  

lantawa: dfenstrate: lantawa: No. But I do think he's an asshole....

Haven't you heard? It's racist to criticize a half-black president.

Yeah, dammit.  But white folk really lost out in the racial draft when Obama went to the black folk side, heh.....


And to think you were just extolling the virtues of your intellect ... wow
 
2013-11-19 09:43:00 AM  

AngryDragon: Thank you for the NSFW pop up ads that get through both AdBlock and FlashBlock, Opposing Views.

shiatheads.


Use NoScript.
 
2013-11-19 09:45:00 AM  

Last Man on Earth: PunGent: Farking hypocrite wingnut.

But I repeat myself.

I don't know that I'd go with hypocrite.  He had an opinion, he had an experience that showed him how wrongheaded that opinion was, and now he rejects his earlier opinion.  That's just learning a life lesson, not hypocricy.  It'd only be hypocricy if he were arguing that the same restrictions should be kept for everyone else, just not for him.


FTA:  "he now claims that before going to prison himself, he had no idea that nonviolent offenders could have their lives destroyed by the system for almost nothing."

See, based on that statement, I don't think he's REALLY learned his lesson yet.  You can't tell me a farking' police commissioner didn't understand how mandatory sentencing can screw things up.

He rode that horse long and hard, and doesn't really want to admit it, even know.  He farking knew, he just didn't care.
 
2013-11-19 09:46:45 AM  

Last Man on Earth: PunGent: Farking hypocrite wingnut.

But I repeat myself.

I don't know that I'd go with hypocrite.  He had an opinion, he had an experience that showed him how wrongheaded that opinion was, and now he rejects his earlier opinion.  That's just learning a life lesson, not hypocricy.  It'd only be hypocricy if he were arguing that the same restrictions should be kept for everyone else, just not for him.


But he was THE FARKING POLICE COMMISSIONER
 
2013-11-19 09:49:05 AM  

AngryDragon: Thank you for the NSFW pop up ads that get through both AdBlock and FlashBlock, Opposing Views.

shiatheads.


memedepot.com
 
2013-11-19 09:52:11 AM  
"I vehemently and angrily support discriminatory policies until I realize that there's a way that they directly affect someone me or someone I know" may as well be the mating call of the contemporary American conservative.
 
2013-11-19 09:53:17 AM  

AngryDragon: Thank you for the NSFW pop up ads that get through both AdBlock and FlashBlock, Opposing Views.


Try NoScript?
 
2013-11-19 09:56:07 AM  

Stopheles: "I vehemently and angrily support discriminatory policies until I realize that there's a way that they directly affect someone me or someone I know" may as well be the mating call of the contemporary American conservative.

human...

/for accuracy
 
2013-11-19 09:56:11 AM  
Rape, murder, child molestation? Mandatory minimum.

Drug possession charges? Hell no. That said, you get caught, arrested and convicted, you're off the welfare roles. Finally, we need a proper rehab program to get these people back to work. People fark up, sometimes really bad and in the employment world these people face a lifetime of being turned down for something they may have paid for years or decades prior (which I think is a person to person violation of people's 8th Amendment rights).
 
2013-11-19 09:56:26 AM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: bopis: Quantum Apostrophe: Yeah so the tough guy can dish it out but can't handle it? fark him.

This.

The last person anyone should be listening to is someone who changed their mind just because they had the tables turned on them. He was/is probably wrong on both sides.


I disagree. Dislike him all you want too for his position prior to his arrest, but why disregard his opinion now that he is on the right side of the issue? Don't allow your feelings to cloud your logic. If your objective is to change things for everyone he could be a huge asset. If your goal is to biatch about it and wish bad things on him, that's your right. I just don't know how productive it is.


Well I don't think I need to use anyone to make my points. I think that is a lame tactic used on both sides.
Anyway, this person is demonstrating that their thinking is based much on their own personal experience rather than any empathy or reasoning. We can't all just have knee jerk reactions based on our limited experiences when making policies that effect everyone.
 
2013-11-19 09:56:27 AM  

This text is now purple: sammyk: Kerik suggested that no one can understand the horror of this system without spending time behind bars.

I'm sure we've all been through a TSA "checkpoint".


Guess how I know you have never spent more that 48 hours in jail.
 
2013-11-19 10:02:38 AM  

bopis: DROxINxTHExWIND: bopis: Quantum Apostrophe: Yeah so the tough guy can dish it out but can't handle it? fark him.

This.

The last person anyone should be listening to is someone who changed their mind just because they had the tables turned on them. He was/is probably wrong on both sides.


I disagree. Dislike him all you want too for his position prior to his arrest, but why disregard his opinion now that he is on the right side of the issue? Don't allow your feelings to cloud your logic. If your objective is to change things for everyone he could be a huge asset. If your goal is to biatch about it and wish bad things on him, that's your right. I just don't know how productive it is.

Well I don't think I need to use anyone to make my points. I think that is a lame tactic used on both sides.
Anyway, this person is demonstrating that their thinking is based much on their own personal experience rather than any empathy or reasoning. We can't all just have knee jerk reactions based on our limited experiences when making policies that effect everyone.



I don't think it's kneejerk to have a messenger for your message. There is an opportunity, however unlikely it is, to have a real conversation about what he went through that changed his position. There were a number of people who took this man's word as a law official when he said the city should be "tough" on crime. He may have an easier time getting an audience with those people than someone who looks like me. Also, I'd just like to say that fark him on a personal level. There is no number that can be put on the number of lives that he destroyed  prior to his downfall. I don't think this gives him a pass, but that doesn't mean we should refuse to listen to him.
 
2013-11-19 10:05:35 AM  
"Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains." ― Winston Churchill
 
2013-11-19 10:15:15 AM  
Kerik is a corrupt fame seeking dirt bag. Conservatives can keep him.
 
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