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(Politico)   Was the Gettysburg address a mistake? "Lincoln was too kind to the South and we still are" Like....whoaaaa   (politico.com) divider line 113
    More: Obvious, America's Great Emancipator, Tommy Lee Jones, political radicalism, Men's Wearhouse, Green Egg, green eggs and ham  
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1257 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Nov 2013 at 9:52 AM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-19 08:17:01 AM
[yourenothelping.jpg]
 
2013-11-19 08:26:48 AM
Y'all should be over it by now.
 
2013-11-19 08:31:42 AM
When the South accepts that they lost the war and that it was about slavery, then we can stop rubbing it in as Northerners.
 
2013-11-19 08:41:17 AM
Here's the deal, we can go back and forth about slavery vs the North's dependence on the South producing income. Or whether it was the Civil War or the War of Northern Aggression. But we can all agree on one thing:
fark THE SOUTH.

bestbaitforfishing.com
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-11-19 08:41:49 AM
Yep.  Trying to make things as though it never happened was a mistake.  Even getting rid of slavery didn't do much because it didn't really change the situation for blacks and it left the same people who started the war in power.

The rebel states should have been dissolved and new territories created, to be admitted as states when they showed that they were worthy of it.
 
2013-11-19 08:50:54 AM

Nabb1: Y'all should be over it by now.


Most of us are.  Unfortunately the vocal, angry southern mouth breathers and the self-righteous douchbags like the author don't do anything more than stoke the flames.
 
2013-11-19 08:52:02 AM
Well, it wasn't called the Uncivil War.
 
2013-11-19 09:06:38 AM

doyner: Most of us are.  Unfortunately the vocal, angry southern mouth breathers and the self-righteous douchbags like the author don't do anything more than stoke the flames.


Glad you included that, especially as I came to post the blurb about the author from the end of the article:
Chuck Thompson is author of Better of Without 'Em: A Northern Manifesto for Southern Secession, now available in paperback and from which this article is adapted.

Sounds like Chuck Thompson is the sort of self-important fool that gets repeatedly trolled by southerners. We love guys like Chuck Thompson down here - while not great sport, it is passingly entertaining to fark with people like him, kid of like dynamiting fish or spotlighting deer. It's all about the accent - deepen it a trifle, lengthen and soften your vowels, sprinkle in a few "y'all's" here and there, and people like Chuck Thompson will believe anything you tell them about the south.
 
2013-11-19 09:53:39 AM

Bareefer Obonghit: Well, it wasn't called the Uncivil War.


i1.ytimg.com
We just whooped all your redneck asses from Antietam to Manassas, you're in graves, with no slaves, Atlanta Braves really suck.
 
2013-11-19 09:57:53 AM
The only reason the South had a prayer to win the war was because General Lee was probably the best general in the war. Even then he was half hearted at best about the South
 
2013-11-19 09:57:55 AM

Elegy: doyner: Most of us are.  Unfortunately the vocal, angry southern mouth breathers and the self-righteous douchbags like the author don't do anything more than stoke the flames.

Glad you included that, especially as I came to post the blurb about the author from the end of the article:
Chuck Thompson is author of Better of Without 'Em: A Northern Manifesto for Southern Secession, now available in paperback and from which this article is adapted.

Sounds like Chuck Thompson is the sort of self-important fool that gets repeatedly trolled by southerners. We love guys like Chuck Thompson down here - while not great sport, it is passingly entertaining to fark with people like him, kid of like dynamiting fish or spotlighting deer. It's all about the accent - deepen it a trifle, lengthen and soften your vowels, sprinkle in a few "y'all's" here and there, and people like Chuck Thompson will believe anything you tell them about the south.


This is what neo confederate losers really think.
 
2013-11-19 09:58:14 AM
I'm all for reinstituting reconstruction.  Hell, the 1964 Civil Rights act was essentially that.  The South is nothing but a degenerate authoritarian shiat hole of one party rule and always has been due to the very nature of master and slave being a one way street.  We should treat them like the Russians treat Chechen rebels, with extreme prejudice.
 
2013-11-19 10:01:30 AM
Y'all northerners sure are angry about winning the War.

If you're going to get mad about an entire region you've never been to over a war fought by our great-great-great-grandparents, then you should probably get counseling...

/"Atlanta" Braves do indeed suck
 
2013-11-19 10:02:04 AM

DarnoKonrad: I'm all for reinstituting reconstruction.  Hell, the 1964 Civil Rights act was essentially that.  The South is nothing but a degenerate authoritarian shiat hole of one party rule and always has been due to the very nature of master and slave being a one way street.  We should treat them like the Russians treat Chechen rebels, with extreme prejudice.


Isn't it a bit early to itg up in this thread?
 
2013-11-19 10:08:11 AM
To be fair, the South seems to breed good writers.
I imagine that it is similar in that respect to Russia, and true art requires being surrounded by misery and suffering.
 
2013-11-19 10:12:29 AM
Honestly, well, yeah. While I'm sympathetic to Lincoln's position b/c I'm mostly a live and let live kind of guy, it's hard not to think that going so soft on the rebels at the end of the war was a huge mistake. It would probably have been better for the country in the long run and certainly for blacks had the US government hung most of the CSA government and incarcerated most of the upper level military officers, especially the ones that broke their oaths and deserted the US army (I'm looking at you Robert E. Lee).

They were REBELS for god's sake. Instead we pardoned almost all of them and they were back in government within a few years, had statues built to them and even had US military bases named after them.

The South needed to be made to face up to what it had done and why and not allowed to make up the BS excuses it did after the war.

Happily, I actually teach at a southern university (and am a southerner myself), and I've found that the younger generations have not been so thoroughly steeped in the Lost Cause bs as earlier generations (including mine) were. I get almost no push back when I teach the commonly accepted narrative of the causes of the Civil War. So there is hope.

/dnrtfa so my comments may be way off base.
 
2013-11-19 10:20:34 AM

Frank N Stein: The only reason the South had a prayer to win the war was because General Lee was probably the best general in the war. Even then he was half hearted at best about the South


And most of the Northern Generals were pretty crappy.
 
2013-11-19 10:22:19 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: Frank N Stein: The only reason the South had a prayer to win the war was because General Lee was probably the best general in the war. Even then he was half hearted at best about the South

And most of the Northern Generals were pretty crappy.


To be fair, many historians agree that the tactics were simply not up to par with the technology.
 
2013-11-19 10:22:46 AM

Cubicle Jockey: To be fair, the South seems to breed good writers.


And yet, at the same time it breeds so few people capable of reading them.
 
2013-11-19 10:23:19 AM
Maybe we could just start stack ranking the states? Those in the bottom 10% have a year to improve (health, income, take fewer federal dollars) or they get booted out and we get to add a territory to make up for it. This way, we don't have to change the flag.
 
2013-11-19 10:23:53 AM

Cheeseface: Y'all northerners sure are angry about winning the War.

If you're going to get mad about an entire region you've never been to over a war fought by our great-great-great-grandparents, then you should probably get counseling...



I know, right? What gives?

It's like how they complain about "red state leeches" and then demand higher taxes and more federal subsidies to red states. It's like they find things to be angry about.
 
2013-11-19 10:24:30 AM

Cheeseface: If you're going to get mad about an entire region you've never been to


I've been there. And it's not the region we are mad at, it's the neo-Confederate mouthbreathing retards who won't let it drop we are mad at. Let it go, it's over and the rest of the world has moved on. All we want is for the neo-Confederate mouthbreathing retards to move on as well.
 
2013-11-19 10:24:30 AM
Not having to pay lip service the total lack of moral fiber most of those people consider an Ethos would be wonderful wouldn't it?
 
2013-11-19 10:25:39 AM

nekom: PC LOAD LETTER: Frank N Stein: The only reason the South had a prayer to win the war was because General Lee was probably the best general in the war. Even then he was half hearted at best about the South

And most of the Northern Generals were pretty crappy.

To be fair, many historians agree that the tactics were simply not up to par with the technology.


Agreed, though McClellan's tactics were mainly to overestimate the enemy's size, position, and capabilities, and then withdraw early because he was afraid to get bloody.
 
2013-11-19 10:26:35 AM

EyeballKid: Cubicle Jockey: To be fair, the South seems to breed good writers.

And yet, at the same time it breeds so few people capable of reading them.


What's the best way to read someone? I'd rather read their works.
 
2013-11-19 10:28:34 AM

Elegy: Sounds like Chuck Thompson is the sort of self-important fool that gets repeatedly trolled by southerners. We love guys like Chuck Thompson down here - while not great sport, it is passingly entertaining to fark with people like him, kid of like dynamiting fish or spotlighting deer. It's all about the accent - deepen it a trifle, lengthen and soften your vowels, sprinkle in a few "y'all's" here and there, and people like Chuck Thompson will believe anything you tell them about the south.


That's because the rest of the nation believes, deep down, that you're a pack of ignorant hicks. So you fooled someone into thinking you're in idiot... congratulations?

I'm living in Arkansas these days and while it's not the deep south I see proudly living up to the stereotypes every day. I can put a lot of it down to rampant poverty, poor education, and a culture that values piety over knowledge but I simply cannot understand the pride some people take in knowing fark all about the world they live in.
 
2013-11-19 10:29:35 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: I'm living in Arkansas these days and while it's not the deep south I see people proudly living up to the stereotypes every day.


god damn the south so much
 
2013-11-19 10:30:22 AM

nekom: PC LOAD LETTER: Frank N Stein: The only reason the South had a prayer to win the war was because General Lee was probably the best general in the war. Even then he was half hearted at best about the South

And most of the Northern Generals were pretty crappy.

To be fair, many historians agree that the tactics were simply not up to par with the technology.


Actually it's because Southerners have the organizational ability of Italians, Greeks and Spaniards. The warm weather in the South causes them to be a bit lazier, disorganized and dumber than the cold-weather Americans.
White people can only reach their potential when they experience four distinct seasons.
 
2013-11-19 10:31:28 AM

Mrbogey: What's the best way to read someone? I'd rather read their works.


Someone apparently went to school in Mis'sipi

/Its a common turn of phrase to say you've read Keats or whoever
//Please don't ask me how to turn a phrase
 
2013-11-19 10:31:48 AM
I really feel that the author here is not really with the times, or is painting the region in far to big a brush.

The South, especially like in urban areas where i grew up and still live have progressed dramatically. Industrialization is finally actually penetrating the more rural areas, and with it a degree of economic elevation that encourages people to ameliorate some of their more backward looking traditions in favor of embracing modernity leading to further economic and educational progress.

The thing now keeping the South in reformed but unrepentant rebel hands are what remains of the old oligarchical "Planter" class and the not insignificant influx of YANKEE conservatives who have come to view the lingering bigotry and unenlightened attitudes of the "Old South" as positives. Gerrymandering in favor of these suburban enclaves in the South have kept the crazies in charge despite the fact that the South's urban population in some places is bordering on ACTUAL socialism (See mayor of Jackson, MS).

Where I live in Nashville, the newest tactic to maintain control and emerged as the promotion of eternal urban sprawl. The idea making is rounds with the conservatives here is that population density is bad because urban areas with high population density tend to vote more liberal. Therefore the new goal to stop the evolution of anything which allows for and or promotes increasing population density namely right now, the beginnings of a functional mass transit system.

The attitudes described in the article are on their way out. The majority of the population may not view northern states necessarily as best buddies but the idea of separation or insurmountable cultural differences I do not believe is at all true on the whole for the region
 
2013-11-19 10:31:57 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Monkeyhouse Zendo: I'm living in Arkansas these days and while it's not the deep south I see people proudly living up to the stereotypes every day.

god damn the south so much


Monkeyhouse Zendo: That's because the rest of the nation believes, deep down, that you're a pack of ignorant hicks. So you fooled someone into thinking you're in idiot... congratulations?


Sometimes the idiot is in you.
 
2013-11-19 10:33:18 AM

Komplex: nekom: PC LOAD LETTER: Frank N Stein: The only reason the South had a prayer to win the war was because General Lee was probably the best general in the war. Even then he was half hearted at best about the South

And most of the Northern Generals were pretty crappy.

To be fair, many historians agree that the tactics were simply not up to par with the technology.

Actually it's because Southerners have the organizational ability of Italians, Greeks and Spaniards. The warm weather in the South causes them to be a bit lazier, disorganized and dumber than the cold-weather Americans.
White people can only reach their potential when they experience four distinct seasons.


The Romans think you're full of shiat.
 
2013-11-19 10:33:45 AM

doyner: Sometimes the idiot is in you.


Yeah, I should probably proofread but fark it, it's Fark.
 
2013-11-19 10:39:57 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: doyner: Sometimes the idiot is in you.

Yeah, I should probably proofread but fark it, it's Fark.


Meh.  I don't really care about the occasional typo.  I just think the animosity to the South is a bit much.

And, BTW, I'm from Conway.
 
2013-11-19 10:40:16 AM

Super_pope: Mrbogey: What's the best way to read someone? I'd rather read their works.

Someone apparently went to school in Mis'sipi

/Its a common turn of phrase to say you've read Keats or whoever
//Please don't ask me how to turn a phrase


I know the intent and the excuse. It's still rough when used in an indefinite way. I dislike it.

/My favorite writer?
//Ticonderoga #2. You?
 
2013-11-19 10:44:59 AM

nekom: Bareefer Obonghit: Well, it wasn't called the Uncivil War.

[i1.ytimg.com image 850x478]
We just whooped all your redneck asses from Antietam to Manassas, you're in graves, with no slaves, Atlanta Braves really suck.


While your bragging, you might want to come up with a couple of, you know, actual victories.
 
2013-11-19 10:46:06 AM

Tenga: nekom: Bareefer Obonghit: Well, it wasn't called the Uncivil War.

[i1.ytimg.com image 850x478]
We just whooped all your redneck asses from Antietam to Manassas, you're in graves, with no slaves, Atlanta Braves really suck.

While your bragging, you might want to come up with a couple of, you know, actual victories.


Chancellorsville?

/snerk
 
2013-11-19 10:46:25 AM

Tenga: nekom: Bareefer Obonghit: Well, it wasn't called the Uncivil War.

[i1.ytimg.com image 850x478]
We just whooped all your redneck asses from Antietam to Manassas, you're in graves, with no slaves, Atlanta Braves really suck.

While your bragging, you might want to come up with a couple of, you know, actual victories.


Take it up with hard drinkin lincoln, it's his song.
 
2013-11-19 10:47:58 AM
Spanish moss! This secluded beach on the A1-A that I hope nobody ever finds. Southern Gothic novels. Savannah. College football. Bluegrass. Fried Chicken.
The region is awesome. The politics are awful, so just ignore that part.
 
2013-11-19 10:50:52 AM

Frank N Stein: The only reason the South had a prayer to win the war was because General Lee was probably the best general in the war. Even then he was half hearted at best about the South


Lee was such a great general that he would routinely separate his smaller forces, always risking defeat for tenuous chances of victory he could never capitalize upon, overcomplicate his battle plans, and let his subordinates run wild (or oversleep, like Jackson at Seven Days) to screw up and insulate himself from blame.

There's plenty of better generals out there: Forrest, Sherman, Thomas, Grant. Lee's mostly hype.
 
2013-11-19 11:00:23 AM
What's so civil about war anyway?
 
2013-11-19 11:03:47 AM
I'll just park this here. Pretty much sums it up now as it did then.


/liberal and living in the south
 
2013-11-19 11:04:45 AM

Darth Macho: Frank N Stein: The only reason the South had a prayer to win the war was because General Lee was probably the best general in the war. Even then he was half hearted at best about the South

Lee was such a great general that he would routinely separate his smaller forces, always risking defeat for tenuous chances of victory he could never capitalize upon, overcomplicate his battle plans, and let his subordinates run wild (or oversleep, like Jackson at Seven Days) to screw up and insulate himself from blame.

There's plenty of better generals out there: Forrest, Sherman, Thomas, Grant. Lee's mostly hype.


Turning this into thread about Confed v Union strategies and tactics isn't really where I'd like to go but if we're here

Lee was the best general, probably, but he had a lot of political and logistical issues to consider that the North never did.

Smaller army, consistently insurmountable supply problems, little uniformity in equipment or training, cultural inclination towards smaller units with locally selected independent command instead of a semi-unifrom command structure found in Union armies, political masters attempting to achieve political goals and notoriety through direct meddling in military matters, and at bet questionable loyalty from as much as half the population he relied on for the troops and supplies all worked heavily against Lee, and he still managed to hold the Union in the North for 3 years, and fought a relatively effective static defense for the last year of the war.

The South was never going to win period. While I idolize Lee as a true American patriot (His generals wanted him to switch to a guerrilla war after Appomattox but he refused to continue fighting a war which was by then a complete loss and which could only cost more American lives), if not for him the Union would have been in Richmond by the second year or the war, third at the latest.
 
2013-11-19 11:08:28 AM

WTF Indeed: When the South accepts that they lost the war and that it was about slavery, then we can stop rubbing it in as Northerners.


I hate to tell you, but the segment of Southerners who really give a shiat is very, very small, and even then, no one owes you an ass-kissing over a war that happened 140 years ago.
 
2013-11-19 11:09:09 AM

vpb: Yep.  Trying to make things as though it never happened was a mistake.  Even getting rid of slavery didn't do much because it didn't really change the situation for blacks and it left the same people who started the war in power.

The rebel states should have been dissolved and new territories created, to be admitted as states when they showed that they were worthy of it.


For awhile it did, then Hayes stopped reconstruction and all the nastiness of Jim Crow started up for real. The just thing would have been to hang every last individual who violated their oath of office through rebellion, and to rigorously enforce the laws of Reconstruction, but not only was their little political will for it in the North and plenty of will in the South opposing reconstruction, taking a hard-line would have likely led to even more guerrilla action on the part of Southerns than was already seen. At the very least, significant rebellions like that of Texas, where the Reconstruction legislature was openly attacked and black legislators killed in the street, should have faced federal military response but as I say, there was no will in DC for fighting the war over again.
 
2013-11-19 11:14:15 AM

Frank N Stein: Komplex: nekom: PC LOAD LETTER: Frank N Stein: The only reason the South had a prayer to win the war was because General Lee was probably the best general in the war. Even then he was half hearted at best about the South

And most of the Northern Generals were pretty crappy.

To be fair, many historians agree that the tactics were simply not up to par with the technology.

Actually it's because Southerners have the organizational ability of Italians, Greeks and Spaniards. The warm weather in the South causes them to be a bit lazier, disorganized and dumber than the cold-weather Americans.
White people can only reach their potential when they experience four distinct seasons.

The Romans think you're full of shiat.


In addition, Alexander the Great's army conquered Afghanistan.
 
2013-11-19 11:15:10 AM

Pubby: While I idolize Lee as a true American patriot


Uhhh... the General who led the anti-American forces throughout the Civil War was a true American Patriot?  Because he wouldn't go from open military conflict to guerrilla war?

If anything, his skillful leadership of the southern armies only succeeded in prolonging an incredibly bloody conflict that he was guaranteed to lose anyway.  "He stopped being a stupid farking asshole tilting at windmills once it became clear he was out of lances," is not indicative of valor.
 
2013-11-19 11:16:17 AM

Frank N Stein: The only reason the South had a prayer to win the war was because General Lee was probably the best general in the war. Even then he was half hearted at best about the South


Stonewall Jackson would like a word with you.
 
2013-11-19 11:16:45 AM

stpauler: Here's the deal, we can go back and forth about slavery vs the North's dependence on the South producing income. Or whether it was the Civil War or the War of Northern Aggression. But we can all agree on one thing:
fark THE SOUTH.

[bestbaitforfishing.com image 300x256]


That's a load of malarkey. Southerners complained about tariffs not because it took too much of their cotton profit as federal revenue, but because it drove up the prices of the European imports it was fashionable for planters to fill their homes with(tariffs are charges on things coming in, not going out). Northerners did this not to farm Southern profits, but to protect nascent Northern industries, particularly North-Eastern furniture making, which would have faced destructive price-competition from English factories otherwise.
 
2013-11-19 11:16:56 AM
Lincoln was the last Republican to oppose slavery.
 
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