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(Eater)   Anthony Bourdain recruits chef pals to recreate "Ocean Liner Dinner," a grand, decadent multicourse French-Continental meal no longer offered by hip modern joints. "Much of this stuff was taught in school early in our lives, but seldom seen since"   (eater.com) divider line 56
    More: Cool, Anthony Bourdain, Ocean Liner Dinner, Parts Unknown, Eric Ripert, Daniel Boulud, chefs, meals, schools  
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3993 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 19 Nov 2013 at 9:45 AM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-19 08:35:27 AM
You mean spending 15 years promoting locally sourced food might have killed the "the best of the world on my plate" meals?
 
2013-11-19 08:54:23 AM
It's impossible to get good lobster thermidore anymore.
 
2013-11-19 09:08:12 AM

WTF Indeed: You mean spending 15 years promoting locally sourced food might have killed the "the best of the world on my plate" meals?


No, it means that restaurant styles, and the palate of the public has changed dramatically. Between moves towards healthier cuisine, lighter cuisine, away from the primarily Eurocentric menus that predominated haute cuisine for generations. "The best of the world" meant primarily French based cuisine, interpreted by those trained within the French brigade tradition, and in very much in the Continental style, which has fallen to the wayside as Asian and African, and Caribbean and other cuisines have made inroads into what "haute cuisine" means. Continental style is abbreviated today, because tastes have changed, costs are astronomical for such styles, and the profit line is simply not there to continue such traditions--economics, simply put, has ended this style as it was practiced 40 years ago. There are hold outs, but the style is abbreviated to reflect the changing tastes of the public.

I can see chefs wanting to return to those days, for a bit, to remember their early days and training, to remember the chefs who inspired them, the food that they trained to produce, the menus that they aspired to bring to life. The tradition is strong in the profession, and the halcyon days of the great chefs of Europe defined what haute cuisine was, and how it was executed, not just in Europe, but in America, and across the globe. If anything, Asia and the Middle East and parts of Africa are some of the last holdouts for traditional "Continental" cuisine, as specialized niche markets, looking to service high end clients who want tastes of "home" far from home, and give the movers and shakers in their lands "authentic" Continental cuisine as a mark of status. In the rest of the world, there is far too much competition to allow restaurants to continue with those traditional senses, save in only the most rarefied of conditions--and most of those hold outs are within specific catering and personal chef situations, as opposed to straight up restaurants.
 
2013-11-19 10:08:28 AM
Spent my entire life studying old school cooking.
Know what?
It's not gone out of style.
It's just that people lack style now.
 
2013-11-19 10:09:56 AM

Bareefer Obonghit: It's impossible to get good lobster thermidore anymore.


Use monk fish and lobster base if you're serving cretans.

Use Maine lobster and a good sherry with a pink roux.
 
2013-11-19 10:15:30 AM

vudukungfu: Bareefer Obonghit: It's impossible to get good lobster thermidore anymore.

Use monk fish and lobster base if you're serving cretans.

Use Maine lobster and a good sherry with a pink roux.


I can't even make a blonde roux, let alone pink.
 
2013-11-19 10:20:04 AM
I'm a bit torn on Bourdain.  On one hand, his shows are mildly entertaining.  On the other, he comes across as a pompous elitist d-bag.
 
2013-11-19 10:34:33 AM

vudukungfu: Spent my entire life studying old school cooking.
Know what?
It's not gone out of style.
It's just that people lack style now.


It's not so much a lack of style, it's that the underlying traditions have fallen. In part, because immigrants both in Europe and in America demand that their own cuisines get some attention. And that chefs are coming up coming from different traditions. And that traditions of cuisine that are JUST as traditional, and with JUST as long a history are coming to the public's attention.

Consider the rise in Southern cuisine. I'm not talking about just Po' Boys and fried chicken, but rather a loosening of the spirit to accept OTHER traditional cuisines. Middle Eastern, Indian, Caribbean--which is firmly anchored in the French traditional, but with some stylistic changes thanks to the cultural exchange with the locals, and the richness of the seafood throughout the region--Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, and more, are all making inroads. North African cuisine is impacting American and European restaurants, as chefs explore and play, and with a public that isn't as fearful, and even sees the exploration as status--which is exactly what haute cuisine is about: a declaration of status and willingness to pay through the nose for food that is exactingly prepared, with quality ingredients, and unavailable to the "normal" restaurant patron.

PsyLord: I'm a bit torn on Bourdain.  On one hand, his shows are mildly entertaining.  On the other, he comes across as a pompous elitist d-bag.


He is a chef, and in a class, where yes, chefs ARE the elite. It is an elitist profession, at that level. I'm not talking about the "celebrity chefs"--who get some air time, grab what they can, make a splash, and then disappear back into mediocrity--but chefs at a level where they are recognized by their peers, as well as their patrons. I have a great deal of respect for the guy, because he came up in the trenches. He didn't get a contract because he won a contest, or was plucked up by some show when he tested well for a certain demographic alone, but he's done the work. Not just the work to get recognized, but the work to make restaurants successful. He does so with an understanding of how the business works, and understands the folks who work within those trenches he came from. Elitist is exactly what haute cuisine is about, and at the same time, it's often prepared by folks who have no business being anywhere near those lily whites that they are surrounded with. It's a weird profession.
 
2013-11-19 10:54:13 AM

Bareefer Obonghit: I can't even make a blonde roux, let alone pink.


Just put paprika in the flour before you begin.
Ordinary, unflavored paprika.
Not that Viet Namese junk.

And use equal parts powder to butter.
like 1/2 Cup of each to start.
Stir continuously, non stop, even.
Use less heat until you get good at it.

As a rule, add hot roux to a cold sauce or a cold roux to a hot sauce to thicken it.
Stirring constantly.

The only time you do not stir a roux is when you store it.
Stir it or store it.
 
2013-11-19 10:56:37 AM

WTF Indeed: You mean spending 15 years promoting locally sourced food might have killed the "the best of the world on my plate" meals?


Nope.  The type of cooking they're trying to recreate went out of fashion with the First World War and more or less ceased to exist with the Second.  Back in the day, the great liner companies believed that one of the ways to keep people happy during the five or so days the Atlantic crossing took was to feed them well and frequently.  Even the food in steerage was good, and many ships even had a kosher kitchen (and two sets of kosher serving ware) to cater to all the Jewish immigrants headed to America.

In First Class, they took the best of French haute cuisine and put it on steroids.  We're talking five courses of heavy, intensely-prepared French food.  The only menus bigger more complex and more frightening (in terms of fat consumption and sheer food intake) that I've seen are from special dinners given at Delmonico's in the 1890s, which often run to 15 courses!

I can't find a good dinner menu online, but here's a 1st Class lunch menu from the Titanic to give you an idea of what we're talking about:

i.huffpost.com

Like Bourdain said, this was stuff that was still taught in culinary school 40 years ago, but even then you weren't ever going to work in a restaurant which offered these dishes.  It's Escoffier-based cooking.
 
2013-11-19 10:56:55 AM

vudukungfu: Bareefer Obonghit: I can't even make a blonde roux, let alone pink.

Just put paprika in the flour before you begin.
Ordinary, unflavored paprika.
Not that Viet Namese junk.

And use equal parts powder to butter.
like 1/2 Cup of each to start.
Stir continuously, non stop, even.
Use less heat until you get good at it.

As a rule, add hot roux to a cold sauce or a cold roux to a hot sauce to thicken it.
Stirring constantly.

The only time you do not stir a roux is when you store it.
Stir it or store it.


Thanks for the tips, I've tried in the past, and for the most part I'm a great cook but I f*ck this up every time. I'm now also imagining myself stirring roux while doing every day tasks like going to the post office in fear of ruining it.
 
2013-11-19 11:08:32 AM
I f*cking hate food on a cruise.  I often have to spend a few weeks at a time onboard cruise ships and I always end up losing weight because the food sucks.

/Work for a cruise company
//Upside is I get paid to see the world
 
2013-11-19 11:10:11 AM
I didn't see any farking tacos on that menu....
 
2013-11-19 11:17:03 AM

Dwight_Yeast: WTF Indeed: You mean spending 15 years promoting locally sourced food might have killed the "the best of the world on my plate" meals?

Nope.  The type of cooking they're trying to recreate went out of fashion with the First World War and more or less ceased to exist with the Second.  Back in the day, the great liner companies believed that one of the ways to keep people happy during the five or so days the Atlantic crossing took was to feed them well and frequently.  Even the food in steerage was good, and many ships even had a kosher kitchen (and two sets of kosher serving ware) to cater to all the Jewish immigrants headed to America.

In First Class, they took the best of French haute cuisine and put it on steroids.  We're talking five courses of heavy, intensely-prepared French food.  The only menus bigger more complex and more frightening (in terms of fat consumption and sheer food intake) that I've seen are from special dinners given at Delmonico's in the 1890s, which often run to 15 courses!

I can't find a good dinner menu online, but here's a 1st Class lunch menu from the Titanic to give you an idea of what we're talking about:

[i.huffpost.com image 570x862]

Like Bourdain said, this was stuff that was still taught in culinary school 40 years ago, but even then you weren't ever going to work in a restaurant which offered these dishes.  It's Escoffier-based cooking.


In fairness, cruise line cooking is STILL mired in a lot of weirdness. To the point, where "cruise line chef" is sort of a pejorative in the business. It relies on a model that is antithetical to the running of any restaurant line, to the point of ridiculousness and waste on a scale that has to be seen to be imagined. Then again, the food that is wasted is of such borderline quality, and jazzed up to look edible, you can at make some profit, though that is with the line itself, not the kitchen alone. It has lost a lot of the luster of the days of the elite cruise lines...
 
2013-11-19 11:19:21 AM

Bareefer Obonghit: most part I'm a great cook but I f*ck this up every time.


Start it when you have time to cook it.
As soon as it's white and fluffy, transfer it to a cool place and store in the fridge until you want to use it.
 
2013-11-19 11:20:13 AM
It should crumble like a moist sand when it is done.
 
2013-11-19 11:32:56 AM
How does sometehing like lobster thermidore or veal orloff go out of style?   Who doesn't want yummy veal with onions/mushroom stuffing  and covered in a cheesy cream sauce?     Sounds like something you could charge a fortune for if you just throw enough yuppie hipster buzzwords (organic sustainable farm raised)  into the menu description.
 
2013-11-19 11:35:22 AM
 
2013-11-19 11:52:48 AM

Bareefer Obonghit: It's impossible to get good lobster thermidore anymore.


Maybe it was the location, but the lobster thermidore at the Rockhouse restaurant in Negril Jamaica was on my top 5 meals ever list.

www.rockhousehotel.com
 
2013-11-19 11:55:21 AM
I'll give Bourdain a pass on this, as he's done more to inspire people AWAY from this tradition than just about anyone else. He appreciates it, but he's no food snob. He's constantly going on about the values of peasant food and blood and guts. So if he wants to do something retro for a larf I say go for it. Myself - I might enjoy something like this once but don't have any interest in this type of cooking beyond a novelty.
 
2013-11-19 11:56:32 AM

PsyLord: I'm a bit torn on Bourdain.  On one hand, his shows are mildly entertaining.  On the other, he comes across as a pompous elitist d-bag.


Meh, I've nothing much against him as he's pretty easy to avoid. His devotees, however, are just hilarious.

Can't remember who it was, but one Farker seriously argued that his contempt of veganism was fine, since as long as you had a culturally acceptable reason for being vegan he was okay with that.

So yeah, his fans are so far gone into delusional celeb worship they're claiming their idol has the right to declare when it's appropriate for someone else to choose what they want to eat and completely unaware how much of a gigantic bell-end that position makes both him and them look.

Also, why is this news? Is traditional haute cuisine that rare in America?

Should check out Masterchef with Michel Roux, Jr. there's a chef I've a lot of time for.
 
2013-11-19 11:59:01 AM

vudukungfu: Spent my entire life studying old school cooking.
Know what?
It's not gone out of style.
It's just that people lack style now.


Recently my wife and I had out 5th anniversary dinner at a very nice restaurant. It was on a Saturday night and wore my best suit and tie. Even at a high end place that was pretty expensive, I was one of the few people there dressed that way,
 
2013-11-19 12:02:30 PM

InmanRoshi: (organic sustainable farm raised)


The lobsters were gathered by free range hippies who snorkel in cold water to gather them up. All our free range hippies are certified and have all of their body hair, and at least seven Grateful Dead concerts and 13 LSD trips under their belts.
 
2013-11-19 12:03:39 PM

InmanRoshi: How does sometehing like lobster thermidore or veal orloff go out of style?   Who doesn't want yummy veal with onions/mushroom stuffing  and covered in a cheesy cream sauce?


It's something you can enjoy in extreme moderation (re:  rarely).  My wife made beef wellington once and I think if I had it again my heart might explode.
 
2013-11-19 12:03:58 PM
mjohnson71:I was one of the few people there dressed that way,

People needs to be suitin up.
 
2013-11-19 12:23:07 PM
Dwight_Yeast:

[i.huffpost.com image 570x862]


Looks tasty, too bad that place went under.
 
2013-11-19 12:32:43 PM

vudukungfu: InmanRoshi: (organic sustainable farm raised)

The lobsters were gathered by free range hippies who snorkel in cold water to gather them up. All our free range hippies are certified and have all of their body hair, and at least seven Grateful Dead concerts and 13 LSD trips under their belts.


Hippies immersed in water?  I call shenanigans.
 
2013-11-19 12:32:56 PM
Simple, labor costs went up.

WTF Indeed: You mean spending 15 years promoting locally sourced food might have killed the "the best of the world on my plate" meals?


You mean a century of food corporations modifying our tastes so that what is cheap to produce is also somehow good for us?
 
2013-11-19 12:52:31 PM

HatMadeOfAss: I f*cking hate food on a cruise.  I often have to spend a few weeks at a time onboard cruise ships and I always end up losing weight because the food sucks.

/Work for a cruise company
//Upside is I get paid to see the world


Cruise lines and ocean liners are in no way related.
 
2013-11-19 12:55:47 PM

JNowe: I call shenanigans.


No. That is the name of that restaurant you like with all the goofy shiat on the walls and the mozzarella sticks.
 
2013-11-19 01:01:47 PM
It's crucial to maintain culinary traditions.  At least it is for me.  I'm off to prep Cajun meat pies & shrimp etouffee pies (crawfish aren't in season yet).  Yes, I'm from New Orleans.
 
2013-11-19 01:33:17 PM
How is it that the people rabbiting on about "lobster thermidor" consistently misspell the second word?

Hint: it does not end in 'e'.
 
2013-11-19 01:58:26 PM

CoonAce: It's crucial to maintain culinary traditions.  At least it is for me.  I'm off to prep Cajun meat pies & shrimp etouffee pies (crawfish aren't in season yet).  Yes, I'm from New Orleans.


Totally agree. I cook from my central Illinois heritage occasionally. On RARE occasion that is. One can only have so much chili, so many hamburgers, and food devoid of exotic seasonings like "salt" and "pepper" before needing to get out and taste the rainbow again. But it's important to remember where we came from. I envy your culinary heritage.
 
2013-11-19 02:08:58 PM
Ortolan or GTFO!
 
2013-11-19 02:51:35 PM

CoonAce: Yes, I'm from New Orleans.


How you make your hoping john?
 
2013-11-19 02:54:52 PM

vudukungfu: CoonAce: Yes, I'm from New Orleans.

How you make your hoping john?


A long letter that makes the "Dear John" somewhat ambiguous to the break up?

Hoppin' John on the other hand is a whole different animule...
 
2013-11-19 02:56:01 PM

PsyLord: I'm a bit torn on Bourdain.  On one hand, his shows are mildly entertaining.  On the other, he comes across as a pompous elitist d-bag.


That's his TV personality.

I've run into him a couple of times in NYC; he always comes across as pretty down to earth.
 
2013-11-19 02:57:27 PM
I want to know how many pounds of butter they're going to use.
 
2013-11-19 03:03:09 PM
I was just going through my "Great Chefs of New Orleans, Chicago, San Fran." cookbooks from the early 80s pbs series this weekend. Lots of truffles, cream, and mousse recipes.

/steak houses still do the classic sauces, or they should
 
2013-11-19 03:27:05 PM
Everything about this story, including this thread, is awful.
 
2013-11-19 03:30:27 PM
i love old school meals. i like newer ideas too but when i have an old school dish...it is usually special. maybe because it is so rare.

i had a dessert called oefs ala niege a few years ago. i've thought of trying to make it but what i really want...is to have it again made by someone who really knows what they are doing. this is the kind of dessert that would be on one of those dinner menus he was talking about.

lgt alton browns take on it...not the same but close enough...  http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/oeufs-a-la-neige-recip e /index.html
 
2013-11-19 03:39:23 PM

hubiestubert: Hoppin' John on the other hand is a whole different animule...


I put a one pound bag of black eyed peas in water over night.
Then Cut up an onion and put it in a crock pot, adding a hog jowl or a ham hock, or if all i have is some bone with bits of ham on it, that goes in. Toss some black pepper on top, and add the beans and fresh water to the top.

That's it. Not much for Hopin John, but that's how granny made it.
With spoon bread. None of that dry corn bread for her.
 
2013-11-19 03:57:18 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Like Bourdain said, this was stuff that was still taught in culinary school 40 years ago, but even then you weren't ever going to work in a restaurant which offered these dishes.  It's Escoffier-based cooking.


Just try to find a really good Chicken A la Maryland.  Even in Maryland!
 
2013-11-19 04:19:40 PM

2wolves: Dwight_Yeast: Like Bourdain said, this was stuff that was still taught in culinary school 40 years ago, but even then you weren't ever going to work in a restaurant which offered these dishes.  It's Escoffier-based cooking.

Just try to find a really good Chicken A la Maryland.  Even in Maryland!


Isn't that just fried chicken? At least, oven-fried chicken?
 
2013-11-19 04:50:50 PM

Mateorocks: 2wolves: Dwight_Yeast: Like Bourdain said, this was stuff that was still taught in culinary school 40 years ago, but even then you weren't ever going to work in a restaurant which offered these dishes.  It's Escoffier-based cooking.

Just try to find a really good Chicken A la Maryland.  Even in Maryland!

Isn't that just fried chicken? At least, oven-fried chicken?


Yes but it's served with Bechamel sauce and bananas.
 
2013-11-19 04:56:12 PM

vudukungfu: hubiestubert: Hoppin' John on the other hand is a whole different animule...

I put a one pound bag of black eyed peas in water over night.
Then Cut up an onion and put it in a crock pot, adding a hog jowl or a ham hock, or if all i have is some bone with bits of ham on it, that goes in. Toss some black pepper on top, and add the beans and fresh water to the top.

That's it. Not much for Hopin John, but that's how granny made it.
With spoon bread. None of that dry corn bread for her.


For every pound of dried blackeyed peas I use 1 fist-size onion, 1 large green bell pepper, 1 pound of meat (I like smoked pork necks but the bones can be a hazard), 1 bay leaf, and cayenne & salt to taste.  Chicken stock to cover by 1 inch.

Take 1 C dry rice, simmer like normal, but in a pot big enough for the next step.  After 10 min of simmering, fold in the peas so you don't break the rice; return to simmer another 10 min or til rice is happy.  You can stretch this with more rice.  Happy new year.
 
2013-11-19 05:02:39 PM
I am from Louisiana and I think we do food wonderfully for many reasons.

1. We value freshness in vegetables, meats and seafoods, and have many sources to get them.  Even in New Orleans they have fruit and vegetable truck guys driving around selling stuff from locally sourced farms and gardens.

2. Tradition - I have been going to the same restaurants for 35 years when I am home and the chicken cutlet with the artichoke sauce on it will look and taste exactly the same as when I first had it.  Not some new chefs "interpretation" of a classic dish.

3. Not a ton of fusion cuisine, which can be great in it's own right but 99.9% of the team means mango chutney, an avocado slice, and a handful of cilantro tossed on top.

4. Italian, French, and Spanish cooking prevail.

However, the most important part is that meals are treated as events with good food, good people, good wines, and many times almost everyone is involved in the preparation.

Also, most of us start cooking at a young age, restaurants know this, and tend to be top notch in their offerings.
 
2013-11-19 05:10:28 PM

CoonAce: vudukungfu: hubiestubert: Hoppin' John on the other hand is a whole different animule...

I put a one pound bag of black eyed peas in water over night.
Then Cut up an onion and put it in a crock pot, adding a hog jowl or a ham hock, or if all i have is some bone with bits of ham on it, that goes in. Toss some black pepper on top, and add the beans and fresh water to the top.

That's it. Not much for Hopin John, but that's how granny made it.
With spoon bread. None of that dry corn bread for her.

For every pound of dried blackeyed peas I use 1 fist-size onion, 1 large green bell pepper, 1 pound of meat (I like smoked pork necks but the bones can be a hazard), 1 bay leaf, and cayenne & salt to taste.  Chicken stock to cover by 1 inch.

Take 1 C dry rice, simmer like normal, but in a pot big enough for the next step.  After 10 min of simmering, fold in the peas so you don't break the rice; return to simmer another 10 min or til rice is happy.  You can stretch this with more rice.  Happy new year.


I generally have salt meat(salted pork) but since I cannot get that here in Florida I can get salted pig tails at the latin store which work just as well.
 
2013-11-19 05:51:20 PM

Bareefer Obonghit: vudukungfu: Bareefer Obonghit: I can't even make a blonde roux, let alone pink.

Just put paprika in the flour before you begin.
Ordinary, unflavored paprika.
Not that Viet Namese junk.

And use equal parts powder to butter.
like 1/2 Cup of each to start.
Stir continuously, non stop, even.
Use less heat until you get good at it.

As a rule, add hot roux to a cold sauce or a cold roux to a hot sauce to thicken it.
Stirring constantly.

The only time you do not stir a roux is when you store it.
Stir it or store it.

Thanks for the tips, I've tried in the past, and for the most part I'm a great cook but I f*ck this up every time. I'm now also imagining myself stirring roux while doing every day tasks like going to the post office in fear of ruining it.


here's a farked up way to make a dark roux on the quick...  and, this guy refers to it as cajun napalm (in the event that something goes wrong), so consider that a warning.

http://www.southernfoodways.org/interview/how-to-make-a-roux/

/ from luizza's by the track.  they make pretty good food, so, you shouldn't think of this as a shortcut.  more like a highly volatile, much more likely way to fail a roux.... but, takes 1/4 of the time.  so, a failure is much less depressing.
// but, if you're just trying to make a blonde roux?  those are pretty easy, the only thing that really matters, don't stop stirring.  dark rouxes are pretty easy too, they just take so damn long.  or you can try he cajun napalm method above.  i know all too well what boiling hot oily flour feels like on flesh, so i stick to the old fashioned method.
/// if you ever wondered the goal roux (and by goal, i don't mean purpose), it's to cook off all the flour taste
 
2013-11-19 05:58:36 PM
blogs.westword.com

Hey guys, where's my invite ?
 
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