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(Business Insider)   Walmart asks customers to donate food to its needy employees. This is not an Onion headline   (businessinsider.com) divider line 349
    More: Stupid  
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15693 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Nov 2013 at 2:24 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-18 07:17:17 PM  
I wished I truly cared about other people. No, I really do. Yet, you're all worthless bastards.
 
2013-11-18 07:21:33 PM  

Carn: d23: Carn: abhorrent1: FFS. I'm so sick of hearing people biatch about walmart. Get a different farking job then. It's not like retail jobs a rare and hard to get.

Yeah go earn $7.25 at some other hellhole like Sam's Club or Target or Best Buy.  That'll solve all your problems.

I would patronize costco if there was one near me.

Secondly, Sam's Club is basically the same store, so that doesn't make much sense.

I've been thinking about getting a Costco membership and shopping there on occasion only for the fact that they treat their people well.  I wish Wegman's were closer to me too.


Honestly, you should shop at Costco because it's amazing. Their store-brand food is actually really good, their prices are amazing (including on stuff like TVs), and even their cake decorators are competent. Some of their stores even have eyeglass shops and printer-ink refills available (fill two ink cartridges and you've paid for the membership right there, seriously). They are good to both their employees AND their customers. The only good reason not to shop there, if there's one around, is not having the storage space/car for large quantities, and even then, there are some good deals in the pharmacy and electronics areas.

Jument: The outrage is misplaced. The food drive is for employees who have undergone hardship, like if a family member has been laid off. The snerky answer of "like working at Walmart" has a disturbing grain of truth but the actual story here is ok IMHO.

Walmart is capitalism. If people don't like the basic premise of Walmart, they should shop elsewhere. Of course, voting with your $$$ can only be so effective in a country with such a disturbingly whacked distribution of weath but again, capitalism. If you don't like it, move to a more social country. Like, for example, basically every first world nation other than the USA.

The USA is unique in the first world in many ways. Almost all of them negative (IMHO).


Because moving to another country is cheap, and getting a work visa is super easy when you aren't already a big shot, or at least a successful creative/tech person...
 
2013-11-18 07:28:01 PM  

ornithopter: Carn: d23: Carn: abhorrent1: FFS. I'm so sick of hearing people biatch about walmart. Get a different farking job then. It's not like retail jobs a rare and hard to get.

Yeah go earn $7.25 at some other hellhole like Sam's Club or Target or Best Buy.  That'll solve all your problems.

I would patronize costco if there was one near me.

Secondly, Sam's Club is basically the same store, so that doesn't make much sense.

I've been thinking about getting a Costco membership and shopping there on occasion only for the fact that they treat their people well.  I wish Wegman's were closer to me too.

Honestly, you should shop at Costco because it's amazing. Their store-brand food is actually really good, their prices are amazing (including on stuff like TVs), and even their cake decorators are competent. Some of their stores even have eyeglass shops and printer-ink refills available (fill two ink cartridges and you've paid for the membership right there, seriously). They are good to both their employees AND their customers. The only good reason not to shop there, if there's one around, is not having the storage space/car for large quantities, and even then, there are some good deals in the pharmacy and electronics areas.


Be careful with Costco. I don't know your political leanings but Costco does prosecute shoplifters.
 
2013-11-18 07:42:28 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: whidbey: Everybody should spend some time trying to get by as an 'unskilled' worker.

That's the rub. It's easier just to look down and dispense free advice, I suppose.

I did it... can I dispense free advice?

Learn a trade... show up on time... work hard. It's not that hard.

Welders and electricians are in very high demand... and make a comfortable living.


Yes, they do. But those jobs are not "OJT, fresh outta high school" gigs where some old dude teaches you the trade. They require formal training, expensive certs and YEARS of apprenticeship before they can even become Journeymen.

Here's a brief list of  the requirements for becoming an electrician in Washington State. BTW, that "2,000 hours of work experience" mentioned is "2,000 hours of paid, contracted work," so if you want to rack up hours, you'll have to travel out of town/state to get that work. At your own expense, of course. And there's a lot of rather complicated math involved in those tests, too.

/Have a friend in WA who's still working on her Journeyman in Commercial Electric after five years. Businesses aren't getting built, so it's hard to find paying gigs.
 
2013-11-18 07:59:51 PM  

FinFangFark: Grand_Moff_Joseph: cynicalminion: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Mr. Coffee Nerves: I can't wait to see one of the Walton kids be flown to this store in their Sikorsky S-76C, land in the parking lot, have a Maybach take them from the chopper to the front door, get out of the car with a single expired can of pumpkin mix...and throw it at the manager who came up with this idea before firing him.

Sam's Choice brand, of course.  and it was probably pulled from the Grocery department return cart, which has been sitting behind the customer service desk all day with now spoiled milk and meat products in it.

don't joke about that.  it's true... oh, and don't forget all the cleaning products that get tossed in the grocery returns because that's where they're kept.

I'm not joking, trust me.  I worked at Fail-mart when I was in college.  The return carts are the pit of hell.

I don't know how long ago that was...but I remember reading somewhere that something like nearly a quarter of all of Walmart employees quality for welfare.  I know there are several mitigating factors that come in to play with that.  But when the majority of the Walmart break rooms have postings from their HR departments on how to apply for welfare...there's just something so wrong with that.


Wal-Mart isn't the only one doing it.  There was a story recently where a woman who had been working for McDonalds for something like 10 years decided to call a 'help line' that was provided by the franchise.  The so-called help given was that she should apply for food stamps and Medicaid if she needed food and medical care.

So, there's plenty of hate to go around when it comes to mistreating employees at minimum wage jobs, and how those companies are relying on the rest of the country to subsidize their employees with food stamps and Medicaid instead of them paying decent wages and going along with the ACA.
 
2013-11-18 08:03:42 PM  
*cough cough cough*
static.ddmcdn.com
 
2013-11-18 08:08:45 PM  

WordyGrrl: Pray 4 Mojo: whidbey: Everybody should spend some time trying to get by as an 'unskilled' worker.

That's the rub. It's easier just to look down and dispense free advice, I suppose.

I did it... can I dispense free advice?

Learn a trade... show up on time... work hard. It's not that hard.

Welders and electricians are in very high demand... and make a comfortable living.

Yes, they do. But those jobs are not "OJT, fresh outta high school" gigs where some old dude teaches you the trade. They require formal training, expensive certs and YEARS of apprenticeship before they can even become Journeymen.

Here's a brief list of  the requirements for becoming an electrician in Washington State. BTW, that "2,000 hours of work experience" mentioned is "2,000 hours of paid, contracted work," so if you want to rack up hours, you'll have to travel out of town/state to get that work. At your own expense, of course. And there's a lot of rather complicated math involved in those tests, too.

/Have a friend in WA who's still working on her Journeyman in Commercial Electric after five years. Businesses aren't getting built, so it's hard to find paying gigs.


I didn't say they were "out of high school" jobs. While it does take thousands of hours of "experience"... you are paid a decent wage to be an apprentice (they make $12-20 an hour IME) while you get that experience.

The need to travel at your own expense... don't really get that. I travel about 14 western States for work and hear the same thing from every local sub-contractor. They simply can't find enough good, entry-level guys. There's work out there. Only thing I can think of is that Washington is a bit of a special case because of the STRONG Union influence (Seattle especially). It could be hard to break into the trades there trying to get through the certifications AND the Union stuff.

I tell any kid that asks me to forget about college and get a welding certification... assuming they have an interest in it. One kid that listened to me (son of a friend) finished his Cert and is making $80k + benes as a 24 year old kid. That's the rule... not the exception.

My point was... it's been drilled into our culture and our youth that you MUST go to college if you want to make money/be successful. That's simply not true.
 
2013-11-18 08:13:38 PM  
If the employees who are going to benefit from this aren't turning around and stealing food from the store anyway they're doing something wrong.
 
2013-11-18 08:16:02 PM  

Voiceofreason01: But we can't raise the minimum wage "because socialism"


All minimum wage does is define at what level of productivity someone is employable. Those below that skill level are just destined for welfare if they don't find a way to acquire skills that make them worth the minimum wage.

jake_lex: And we need to slash spending on food stamp programs and keep corporate taxes low becuase, once again, socialism.


Food stamp benefits are increasing at a faster rate than social security benefits.  But what are food stamps in this case but a way to push corporate labor costs on to the taxpayer?

The questions we should be asking are with regards to what the government has done with its interventions and monetary policy that has turned retail work into what it is today.

If Walmart really paid so poorly they would constantly lose experienced employees to Target, Home Depot, Lowes, Kmart, and so on and so forth. Odds are Walmart is paying pretty close to a market rate. Why is the market rate low? Because there are too many people who need jobs perhaps. Why do these wages buy so little? Perhaps the last decade plus of money creation might have something to do with it. What happened to better paying low skill jobs making things? Off to other countries to export the inflation.  Why do so many people need jobs? Maybe because they don't have skills. The paths to skilled labor being largely cut off in the last few decades in favor of college for everyone. Maybe because it's too difficult to make your own job in this country today too. Why is it difficult? Because government, banks, and it's other corporate partners have put up barriers to entry.  We have an interventionist, fascist (corporatist) economy for the most part and that's the root cause.

This story is a symptom, not a cause. It's easy to hate on Walmart. But more difficult to look at how and why things got this way. We need to get back to a place where people were freer to pursue their economic self interest. To cast aside these fascist 1930s ideas of efficient economies and the like and their predecessors that worked over time to restrict the economic opportunities of the people. If working at the local Walmart was just a first job people graduated from, what they paid wouldn't matter much.

BTW, mass retail work always paid crappily. Even the union wages I made back in the 80s were crappy.
 
2013-11-18 08:26:06 PM  
 Would it be illegal for me to advise people ( not do it myself ) of how to make the largest economic impact from property destruction to its highest form as a form of social protest?  I used to work in a grocery store and could do about 10K in damage in about 5 minutes without being caught.
 
2013-11-18 08:32:50 PM  

TiredWings: Would it be illegal for me to advise people ( not do it myself ) of how to make the largest economic impact from property destruction to its highest form as a form of social protest?  I used to work in a grocery store and could do about 10K in damage in about 5 minutes without being caught.


Being a douche-bag is not illegal.
 
2013-11-18 08:33:29 PM  

TiredWings: Would it be illegal for me to advise people ( not do it myself ) of how to make the largest economic impact from property destruction to its highest form as a form of social protest?  I used to work in a grocery store and could do about 10K in damage in about 5 minutes without being caught.


Ha! Hordes of tweekers are way ahead of you though.
 
2013-11-18 08:39:30 PM  

WordyGrrl: Yes, they do. But those jobs are not "OJT, fresh outta high school" gigs where some old dude teaches you the trade. They require formal training, expensive certs and YEARS of apprenticeship before they can even become Journeymen.


That's because we live in an interventionist economy where high schools have dropped shop classes. Where goverments, unions, and other institutions for decades sought to limit access to new comers to drive up the wages of old timers.  Learning the trades isn't difficult. Much of it can be self taught, but self taught people are largely illegal to hire. Got to have licenses, union memberships, etc and so on and so forth. There are minimum wages that are set by union contracts and laws (wrt government contracts) and the like that make a new guy who taught himself the basics way too expensive to hire. So he can't get that first job to build his skills further.

So what's a person to do when he cannot afford to even get in the club?  He ends up working for a big box store trying to scrape the coin together to get into the club or he just gives up.
 
2013-11-18 08:42:11 PM  

TiredWings: Would it be illegal for me to advise people ( not do it myself ) of how to make the largest economic impact from property destruction to its highest form as a form of social protest?  I used to work in a grocery store and could do about 10K in damage in about 5 minutes without being caught.


Five minutes? Not creative enough.

Nothing worse for a grocery store than vermin. They'll do their work over time.
 
2013-11-18 08:47:40 PM  

mikeray: ornithopter: Carn: d23: Carn: abhorrent1: FFS. I'm so sick of hearing people biatch about walmart. Get a different farking job then. It's not like retail jobs a rare and hard to get.

Yeah go earn $7.25 at some other hellhole like Sam's Club or Target or Best Buy.  That'll solve all your problems.

I would patronize costco if there was one near me.

Secondly, Sam's Club is basically the same store, so that doesn't make much sense.

I've been thinking about getting a Costco membership and shopping there on occasion only for the fact that they treat their people well.  I wish Wegman's were closer to me too.

Honestly, you should shop at Costco because it's amazing. Their store-brand food is actually really good, their prices are amazing (including on stuff like TVs), and even their cake decorators are competent. Some of their stores even have eyeglass shops and printer-ink refills available (fill two ink cartridges and you've paid for the membership right there, seriously). They are good to both their employees AND their customers. The only good reason not to shop there, if there's one around, is not having the storage space/car for large quantities, and even then, there are some good deals in the pharmacy and electronics areas.

Be careful with Costco. I don't know your political leanings but Costco does prosecute shoplifters.


What's that got to do with political leanings? I wasn't aware there's a political party that says theft is acceptable. About the only people I know who have a problem with places prosecuting shoplifters are.... dun dun dun.... shoplifters.

And I mean... shoplifting at Costco? really? Even the pharmacy stuff has big heavy cardboard backings. Everything else is in giant bags/boxes. What are you gonna take, extra free samples?
 
2013-11-18 08:55:43 PM  

cman: monoski: Thanks Obama.

//107 posts and I am first to blame Fartbongo.

Sometimes there are things that are just so wrong that we even cman can see clearly without any bullshiat who is at fault. Partisan politics can be put aside for a few things.

This is one of those times.

This is complete horse shiat. What Walmart is doing is completely disgraceful.


/all in good fun  cman
//well mostly
 
2013-11-18 08:57:17 PM  
Of course they're evil. They bought out Weyland-Yutani.
 
2013-11-18 09:06:19 PM  
leadmetal:  Why is the market rate low?

it couldn't be because Walmart is the largest low wage employer in the country, can undercut their smaller competitors putting them out of their business and so can pretty much pay anything they want.

I do agree that the whole problem has in no small part been caused by a failure of monetary policy and ineffective regulation but the answer is not no regulation but better regulation and setting the minimum wage at a livable wage would be a much needed transfer of wealth to the bottom of the economic ladder.
 
2013-11-18 09:26:06 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: WordyGrrl: Pray 4 Mojo: whidbey: Everybody should spend some time trying to get by as an 'unskilled' worker.

That's the rub. It's easier just to look down and dispense free advice, I suppose.

I did it... can I dispense free advice?

Learn a trade... show up on time... work hard. It's not that hard.

Welders and electricians are in very high demand... and make a comfortable living.

Yes, they do. But those jobs are not "OJT, fresh outta high school" gigs where some old dude teaches you the trade. They require formal training, expensive certs and YEARS of apprenticeship before they can even become Journeymen.

Here's a brief list of  the requirements for becoming an electrician in Washington State. BTW, that "2,000 hours of work experience" mentioned is "2,000 hours of paid, contracted work," so if you want to rack up hours, you'll have to travel out of town/state to get that work. At your own expense, of course. And there's a lot of rather complicated math involved in those tests, too.

/Have a friend in WA who's still working on her Journeyman in Commercial Electric after five years. Businesses aren't getting built, so it's hard to find paying gigs.

I didn't say they were "out of high school" jobs. While it does take thousands of hours of "experience"... you are paid a decent wage to be an apprentice (they make $12-20 an hour IME) while you get that experience.

The need to travel at your own expense... don't really get that. I travel about 14 western States for work and hear the same thing from every local sub-contractor. They simply can't find enough good, entry-level guys. There's work out there. Only thing I can think of is that Washington is a bit of a special case because of the STRONG Union influence (Seattle especially). It could be hard to break into the trades there trying to get through the certifications AND the Union stuff.

I tell any kid that asks me to forget about college and get a welding certification... assuming they have an interest in it. On ...


Agreed. There are jobs, like welding, out there that pay a decent wage. I work for a large foundry that also CNC's and welds and we are always hiring. $20/hour to start. I see 20 year olds come and go more now than ever. They're too good for this type of work.
 
2013-11-18 09:27:00 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: My point was... it's been drilled into our culture and our youth that you MUST go to college if you want to make money/be successful. That's simply not true.


Well that I agree with. The only reason anyone should seek higher education is to become knowledgeable about a subject or subjects for personal benefit. Yes, that could include business management.

And no, you can't learn everything off Wikipedia.
 
2013-11-18 09:28:53 PM  

mongbiohazard: This is a part of a problem which affects us all. It's well past the time where we need to have a serious national discussion about this subsidy we give to companies like this. Companies which we know pay their workers so little that they need to be on public assistance to feed their families. It means all of us paying taxes are subsidizing the big piles of wealth that the executives of these companies are amassing. You and I are effectively paying the CEO of Walmart even though we may never buy a single product from them in our lives, and their rank and file employees suffer at the same time.

[...]

Now instead of saving up money to start that new business which will one day supplant a current industry leader an enterprising person must instead take on debt - debt to which the wage/wealth destruction means they will have less ability to repay then they would have had in the past. The only folks who benefit from this system are the money changers who run the debt industry.


This is not new. See the concept of "Company Store", from the song "Sixteen Tons": "According to Travis, the line from the chorus, "another day older and deeper in debt", was a phrase often used by his father, a coal miner himself.[5] This and the line, "I owe my soul to the company store", is a reference to the truck system and to debt bondage. Under this scrip system, workers were not paid cash; rather they were paid with non-transferable credit vouchers which could be exchanged only for goods sold at the company store. This made it impossible for workers to store up cash savings. Workers also usually lived in company-owned dormitories or houses, the rent for which was automatically deducted from their pay. In the United States the truck system and associated debt bondage persisted until the strikes of the newly formed United Mine Workers and affiliated unions forced an end to such practices." -- Wikipedia

Back to the future.
 
2013-11-18 09:53:17 PM  

Voiceofreason01: leadmetal:  Why is the market rate low?

it couldn't be because Walmart is the largest low wage employer in the country, can undercut their smaller competitors putting them out of their business and so can pretty much pay anything they want.

I do agree that the whole problem has in no small part been caused by a failure of monetary policy and ineffective regulation but the answer is not no regulation but better regulation and setting the minimum wage at a livable wage would be a much needed transfer of wealth to the bottom of the economic ladder.


Walmart has to compete with various other retail giants for labor, which last I heard are alive and well. The exception would be Walmart's traditional small town locations where the other giants aren't. Now maybe a couple dozen people could have made slightly more working ma and pa but in the end the problem is a lack of economic opportunity, not the lack of smaller retail stores. There would be quite literally no where else to work and little hope of working for one's self in today's economy. It's not like the old days where someone could just start a factory making something in small town USA and would struggle just trying to be a plumber.

All increasing the wage by government fiat does is marginally improve things for the people worth that wage by getting rid of competition for the same jobs. It doesn't solve the problem and creates others. Setting the minimum wage higher just knocks more people off the bottom of the ladder to subsist entirely on welfare. A person has to have a productive value as high or higher than the wage or there is no job. When such people have jobs it is either government or union contract or both but we know how that turns out financially and it isn't good. What needs to be addressed are the barriers and conditions that stifle people, that cause them to end up working for a Walmart instead of doing something else.

Regulation and minimum wages and all the rest are politically done to benefit some people at a cost to others. That's how this mess came about. More of it won't make things better. Sure we can have more regulation, then Walmart can have government seal it as top of the heap. Because now someone can't come in with the next innovation and undercut them. You'll get people working for higher wages at Walmart and the rest, but the market will be theirs' forever.
 
2013-11-18 10:03:25 PM  

Spaghetti Eatin' Goombah: Why not get some of your fellow Walmart employees to assemble a systematic way to shoplift from their store.  Maybe you bring 12 items to the check out counter but your buddy only effectively scans 9 items. Or you get the loss prevention lead to reboot security cameras thereby shutting them down for a 5 minute "predetermined" time and suddenly the back door is a flurry of activity.  You see, this way Walmart helps its own, but doesn't actually know it and subsequently doesn't try to exploit their  generosity.

Huh? Huh? Genius right?

/maybe not, but Fark Walmart


This is already a big thing, or was at my mother's K-Mart 20 years ago.
 
2013-11-18 10:08:39 PM  

Koodz: Spaghetti Eatin' Goombah: Why not get some of your fellow Walmart employees to assemble a systematic way to shoplift from their store.  Maybe you bring 12 items to the check out counter but your buddy only effectively scans 9 items. Or you get the loss prevention lead to reboot security cameras thereby shutting them down for a 5 minute "predetermined" time and suddenly the back door is a flurry of activity.  You see, this way Walmart helps its own, but doesn't actually know it and subsequently doesn't try to exploit their  generosity.

Huh? Huh? Genius right?

/maybe not, but Fark Walmart

This is already a big thing, or was at my mother's K-Mart 20 years ago.


The keywords being "20 years ago." I'm guessing that if there's anything the Waltons have sunk their billions into, it would be advanced security to protect their assets.
 
2013-11-18 10:08:59 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: WordyGrrl: Pray 4 Mojo: whidbey: Everybody should spend some time trying to get by as an 'unskilled' worker.

That's the rub. It's easier just to look down and dispense free advice, I suppose.

I did it... can I dispense free advice?

Learn a trade... show up on time... work hard. It's not that hard.

Welders and electricians are in very high demand... and make a comfortable living.

Yes, they do. But those jobs are not "OJT, fresh outta high school" gigs where some old dude teaches you the trade. They require formal training, expensive certs and YEARS of apprenticeship before they can even become Journeymen.

Here's a brief list of  the requirements for becoming an electrician in Washington State. BTW, that "2,000 hours of work experience" mentioned is "2,000 hours of paid, contracted work," so if you want to rack up hours, you'll have to travel out of town/state to get that work. At your own expense, of course. And there's a lot of rather complicated math involved in those tests, too.

/Have a friend in WA who's still working on her Journeyman in Commercial Electric after five years. Businesses aren't getting built, so it's hard to find paying gigs.

I didn't say they were "out of high school" jobs. While it does take thousands of hours of "experience"... you are paid a decent wage to be an apprentice (they make $12-20 an hour IME) while you get that experience.

The need to travel at your own expense... don't really get that. I travel about 14 western States for work and hear the same thing from every local sub-contractor. They simply can't find enough good, entry-level guys. There's work out there. Only thing I can think of is that Washington is a bit of a special case because of the STRONG Union influence (Seattle especially). It could be hard to break into the trades there trying to get through the certifications AND the Union stuff.

I tell any kid that asks me to forget about college and get a welding certification... assuming they have an interest in it. On ...


Oh, I get your point. It's just that I get a little tired of so many people (not you, but others) recommending trade school while implying that it's faster and/or cheaper than college when it definitely isn't in a lot of cases. As for the Union thing, my friend is a Union electrician, but she says there's really not as much competition going on between Union and non-Union electricians (around the Seattle-area) as you'd expect. But that just may be because she specializes in commercial (huge volts and amps) electrical and not residential.
 
2013-11-18 10:15:57 PM  

BigOle8point: I see 20 year olds come and go more now than ever. They're too good for this type of work.


I didn't want to be "that old guy" and say this... but... yeah... totally.

An apprentice, commercial electrician is going to spend most of his/her first year married to a shovel. It sucks and it's hard work. I see kids come and go constantly.
 
2013-11-18 10:19:14 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: BigOle8point: I see 20 year olds come and go more now than ever. They're too good for this type of work.

I didn't want to be "that old guy" and say this... but... yeah... totally.

An apprentice, commercial electrician is going to spend most of his/her first year married to a shovel. It sucks and it's hard work. I see kids come and go constantly.


What does electrical wiring have to do with a shovel? Is this one of those "Call before you dig" type things?
 
2013-11-18 10:30:14 PM  
 
2013-11-18 10:33:31 PM  

whidbey: Koodz: Spaghetti Eatin' Goombah: Why not get some of your fellow Walmart employees to assemble a systematic way to shoplift from their store.  Maybe you bring 12 items to the check out counter but your buddy only effectively scans 9 items. Or you get the loss prevention lead to reboot security cameras thereby shutting them down for a 5 minute "predetermined" time and suddenly the back door is a flurry of activity.  You see, this way Walmart helps its own, but doesn't actually know it and subsequently doesn't try to exploit their  generosity.

Huh? Huh? Genius right?

/maybe not, but Fark Walmart

This is already a big thing, or was at my mother's K-Mart 20 years ago.

The keywords being "20 years ago." I'm guessing that if there's anything the Waltons have sunk their billions into, it would be advanced security to protect their assets.


I suspect that the concept of an arms race applies to more than war.

/The Red Queen, she be steady runnin'
 
2013-11-18 10:33:54 PM  

WordyGrrl: Oh, I get your point. It's just that I get a little tired of so many people (not you, but others) recommending trade school while implying that it's faster and/or cheaper than college when it definitely isn't in a lot of cases. As for the Union thing, my friend is a Union electrician, but she says there's really not as much competition going on between Union and non-Union electricians (around the Seattle-area) as you'd expect. But that just may be because she specializes in commercial (huge volts and amps) electrical and not residential.


Getting in the trades is generally much cheaper than a 4 year college... unless you are stupid enough to go to a school that advertises on day-time TV. Put your time in, get your 100ish hours of classroom time at a cost of (about) $5k... and take a prep class. IIRC... the Union pays for or provides low cost schooling as well...

But faster? Nope. I would guess it's probably 6 or 7 years (at least) from the day you first put on your work boots before you're making a decent wage.

Definitely see your point though.

As far as the Union thing... Seattle and most of the metro area is absolutely locked down by the Unions... that's why there's no competition for commercial work by non-union shops.Not sure where the border of the Union jurisdiction is... but I build TI and small box retail... and I've worked all over Washington. Near Seattle it's all Union... and anywhere else (Federal Way, Chehalis, Puyallup) the jobs get picketed. : )
 
2013-11-18 10:36:16 PM  
i43.tinypic.com
i39.tinypic.com
i41.tinypic.com
 
2013-11-18 10:41:20 PM  
Seriously, how does Walmart expect their workers to be able to afford to help each other out?

Say an average store employs roughly 400 people. Even if just 50 of those workers need food help, with an average family size of 4 (just pulling these numbers out of my ass but they can't be too far off), that's 200 people. For one day, or even one meal.

Yeah, this isn't going to help much.
 
2013-11-18 10:41:39 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: As far as the Union thing... Seattle and most of the metro area is absolutely locked down by the Unions... that's why there's no competition for commercial work by non-union shops.Not sure where the border of the Union jurisdiction is... but I build TI and small box retail... and I've worked all over Washington. Near Seattle it's all Union... and anywhere else (Federal Way, Chehalis, Puyallup) the jobs get picketed. : )


tha HORROR.
 
2013-11-18 10:47:32 PM  

whidbey: Pray 4 Mojo: BigOle8point: I see 20 year olds come and go more now than ever. They're too good for this type of work.

I didn't want to be "that old guy" and say this... but... yeah... totally.

An apprentice, commercial electrician is going to spend most of his/her first year married to a shovel. It sucks and it's hard work. I see kids come and go constantly.

What does electrical wiring have to do with a shovel? Is this one of those "Call before you dig" type things?


Overhead high voltage power service is generally not allowed anymore (thanks tweekers)... so everything outside and as much as possible inside (it's cheaper under than over) is run in the ground. That's a lot of digging.
 
2013-11-18 10:56:54 PM  

mongbiohazard: This is a part of a problem which affects us all. It's well past the time where we need to have a serious national discussion about this subsidy we give to companies like this. Companies which we know pay their workers so little that they need to be on public assistance to feed their families. It means all of us paying taxes are subsidizing the big piles of wealth that the executives of these companies are amassing. You and I are effectively paying the CEO of Walmart even though we may never buy a single product from them in our lives, and their rank and file employees suffer at the same time.

So it isn't enough to just not shop there. Every taxpayer is supporting this usurious system.

The destruction of the wages and wealth of the majority of Americans over the last few decades - so a favored very few can amass grotesque amounts of wealth at everyone else's expense - is a huge problem and I don't mean morally. It's a problem because it weakens our economy in general. It slows economic recovery, and hurts the job market. It's a serious threat to the country.

Our economy runs on consumption. The poorer the consumers are, the slower and weaker our economy is going to get. Our economic strength in the past relied in no small part on the vast wealth that the American system had created and distributed among the majority of the citizens, allowing for a vibrant and healthy economy. Now that wages and wealth are on the decline for the lower and middle classes not only do we have less capital to trade back and forth supporting each other, but the less capital we have means it's harder for the next small business to be created by that enterprising fellow in his garage... which impacts the creative destruction a system like ours needs.

Now instead of saving up money to start that new business which will one day supplant a current industry leader an enterprising person must instead take on debt - debt to which the wage/wealth destruction means they will have less ability t ...


Great post all around, but still: THIS.
 
2013-11-18 11:32:37 PM  

abhorrent1: FFS. I'm so sick of hearing people biatch about walmart. Get a different farking job then. It's not like retail jobs a rare and hard to get.


The belligerent and blatant ignorance of people like you isn't even amusing anymore.

It's insulting to the people of this nation as a whole and a wholesale conviction on education.

People like you are a large part of the problem yet your level of ignorance is so high that it bars you from even realizing it.
 
2013-11-19 12:28:31 AM  
I try not to shop at Wal-Mart.

They don't have a good selection of electronics or computer hardware or software, so that's out.

Their clothes are low quality, and feel as though they are cut out to fit on a cardboard cutout of a person.

The food, when name brand, is cheaper, but most of their stuff is off-brand or in-house brand, and it's terrible.

The staff don't give a shiat about you, and I don't blame them one bit. I am in the same boat as most of them; making too little when life costs too much.

A lot of the time you encounter shiatty, uncouth people who just don't care enough about themselves or others to dress appropriately. e.g. shirt that covers ampleness, pretty much everything at peopleofwalmart...

For essentials such as underwear, t-shirts, socks, etc., I shop at one of several smaller, local chains. For electronics I order online. Other clothes I'll get at a thrift shop. Big chains don't service my consumer needs to my satisfaction, so, it's easy to avoid them. Wal-mart is just the worst offender.
 
2013-11-19 01:42:58 AM  
I'm just plain farking sad now.  Cause you know people are going to get fired and corporate is going to ban doing anything to help those poor farkers.  Meanwhile the machine will continue to roll ever forward crushing souls and devouring government money.  AND NO GOOD WILL COME OUT OF THIS AT ALL, just more awfulness.

And I'm a gun loving, get the gov't out of my life type dude.
 
2013-11-19 01:45:20 AM  

leadmetal: Voiceofreason01: leadmetal:  Why is the market rate low?

it couldn't be because Walmart is the largest low wage employer in the country, can undercut their smaller competitors putting them out of their business and so can pretty much pay anything they want.

I do agree that the whole problem has in no small part been caused by a failure of monetary policy and ineffective regulation but the answer is not no regulation but better regulation and setting the minimum wage at a livable wage would be a much needed transfer of wealth to the bottom of the economic ladder.

Walmart has to compete with various other retail giants for labor, which last I heard are alive and well. The exception would be Walmart's traditional small town locations where the other giants aren't. Now maybe a couple dozen people could have made slightly more working ma and pa but in the end the problem is a lack of economic opportunity, not the lack of smaller retail stores. There would be quite literally no where else to work and little hope of working for one's self in today's economy. It's not like the old days where someone could just start a factory making something in small town USA and would struggle just trying to be a plumber.

All increasing the wage by government fiat does is marginally improve things for the people worth that wage by getting rid of competition for the same jobs. It doesn't solve the problem and creates others. Setting the minimum wage higher just knocks more people off the bottom of the ladder to subsist entirely on welfare. A person has to have a productive value as high or higher than the wage or there is no job. When such people have jobs it is either government or union contract or both but we know how that turns out financially and it isn't good. What needs to be addressed are the barriers and conditions that stifle people, that cause them to end up working for a Walmart instead of doing something else.

Regulation and minimum wages and all the rest are politically ...


Then how would we explain the thousands and thousands of small businesses in every city and town in the EU, where wages are astronomical compared to us, AND were set by government rule and/or union contracting?
 
2013-11-19 01:59:05 AM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Then how would we explain the thousands and thousands of small businesses in every city and town in the EU, where wages are astronomical compared to us, AND were set by government rule and/or union contracting?


B-But they pay HIGHER TAXES OH GOD
 
2013-11-19 02:05:43 AM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Then how would we explain the thousands and thousands of small businesses in every city and town in the EU, where wages are astronomical compared to us, AND were set by government rule and/or union contracting?


Mexicans.
 
2013-11-19 02:09:00 AM  

sufferpuppet: oing thousands into debt with no marketable skills to show for it is a poor choice.


Thing is, what is a marketable skill? And why should everyone just have one? What happened to employers training people? The second you discourage anyone from studying whatever it is they really want to study and instead bring up gaining money, you have engaged in anti-intellectualism.
 
2013-11-19 04:10:56 AM  
Again, why are our lawmakers not like lawmakers of other countries who have common sense? When Wal-mart came into Europe and tried it's shiat, most European countries enacted laws that require if you make X level of profit, you are required to provide Y level of pay/benefit to your workers. It's just fugging common sense to do this otherwise you end up where we are now, companies who are utterly ignoring their social contracts with society just for more and more profit which does nothing but sit around in a bank for perpetuity anyways. Why the blue hells are my tax dollars going to pay for some poor soul's health care and food stamps when they work for a company that made $15.7 billion last year and why is my government letting me get ripped off?!
 
2013-11-19 04:24:31 AM  

abhorrent1: FFS. I'm so sick of hearing people biatch about walmart. Get a different farking job then. It's not like retail jobs a rare and hard to get.


People like you are beyond my comprehension. You seem to lack even basic forethought or common sense.

Do you live in this country? Do you pay taxes? Do you not seem to comprehend that companies like Wal-mart who turn their work force into indentured servants who must leech off your government, YOU are literally paying for it in your already too damned high taxes? Do you not comprehend this simple, basic, obvious truth? Do you like getting mugged or ripped off? Do you not realize the longer this goes on, every company on the planet is going to look at this and copy-suit for more and more profit (and why the hell shouldn't they?)? Are you just blazingly, mind-numbingly stupid?

I can only conclude either your last name is "Walton," you work for the chinese government, or you don't work at all.
 
2013-11-19 06:21:38 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: BigOle8point: I see 20 year olds come and go more now than ever. They're too good for this type of work.

I didn't want to be "that old guy" and say this... but... yeah... totally.

An apprentice, commercial electrician is going to spend most of his/her first year married to a shovel. It sucks and it's hard work. I see kids come and go constantly.


So, you don't pay enough to keep them around. It's simple supply and demand. Raise their pay.
 
2013-11-19 08:26:15 AM  

Terrible Old Man: Why the blue hells are my tax dollars going to pay for some poor soul's health care and food stamps when they work for a company that made $15.7 billion last year and why is my government letting me get ripped off?!


The problem is most of those people have more expenses than a reasonable minimum wage can cover.  If a single person living a minimal lifestyle can't make it on Walmart pay, it's evidence that the minimum wage needs to be changed at the local level in that area.  If a single person can't raise 4 kids on Walmart pay, that's the government's responsibility to step in, not Walmart's.
Unless you want to give Walmart the discretion to hire and fire employees based on how many dependents they have.

Having different rules based on corporate profits seems like government overreach to me.  The same work shouldn't be worth more in two different organizations just because one of them is more efficient in some unrelated area and therefore makes more money.
It would also create lock in problems if somebody got used to the good pay at Walmart, started living accordingly, then the local Walmart got shut down.  Ideally that person should be able to go to a Target or similar store and do the same job, but now he might be making a fraction of what he made before.
 
2013-11-19 08:36:57 AM  

shirtsbyeric: Yeah, WalMart suck but they couldn't have done it without Hillary sitting on the Board of Directors while Bill signed all of the treaties to help them send our jobs to China but you will all still vote for her and continue to complain.


hahahahaha
 
2013-11-19 09:41:52 AM  

Voiceofreason01: But we can't raise the minimum wage "because socialism"


I`d say 'because  brainwashing'
 
2013-11-19 06:09:46 PM  

KeatingFive: Pray 4 Mojo: BigOle8point: I see 20 year olds come and go more now than ever. They're too good for this type of work.

I didn't want to be "that old guy" and say this... but... yeah... totally.

An apprentice, commercial electrician is going to spend most of his/her first year married to a shovel. It sucks and it's hard work. I see kids come and go constantly.

So, you don't pay enough to keep them around. It's simple supply and demand. Raise their pay.


Dear Ignorant Poster: Read my original post
 
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