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(Townhall)   Adding a sales tax to Internet transactions is part of the War on Christmas   (townhall.com) divider line 53
    More: Asinine, internet, D-MT, tax collectors  
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741 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Nov 2013 at 12:31 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-18 12:11:04 PM  
oh never mind
I hate this discussion. 
If the brick and mortar stores think that this will save them, they really dont understand free home delivery.
 
2013-11-18 12:22:17 PM  

namatad: oh never mind
I hate this discussion. 
If the brick and mortar stores think that this will save them, they really dont understand free home delivery.


Not only that, but even though I have to pay sales tax with Amazon, it's still cheaper than buying something locally because they only charge State tax, not city (6.1% vs 8.1%)
 
2013-11-18 12:23:09 PM  

The Onion is prophetic: namatad: oh never mind
I hate this discussion. 
If the brick and mortar stores think that this will save them, they really dont understand free home delivery.

Not only that, but even though I have to pay sales tax with Amazon, it's still cheaper than buying something locally because they only charge State tax, not city (6.1% vs 8.1%)


LOL - I hadnt thought about that. I would bet that the cities will be all over that.
 
2013-11-18 12:33:50 PM  
 
2013-11-18 12:33:59 PM  
Help!

I'm being oppressed!

This is the same as slavery!
 
2013-11-18 12:36:21 PM  
The Bible is very clear.  Jesus had some choice things to say about people who refuse to take part in economy-driving consumerism.  Why, in the South where we still feel like Sunday is the day of rest and pass laws to enforce this by restricting sales of certain goods and requiring businesses to open late to accommodate church services, even we know Christmas is so sacred to Jesus that we suspend many of our usual restrictions in order to get more people shopping.

Amazon would be wise not to tempt the wrath of God.
 
2013-11-18 12:37:02 PM  

namatad: oh never mind
I hate this discussion.
If the brick and mortar stores think that this will save them, they really dont understand free home delivery.


www.dvd.net.au

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6BPqDveMHJ0 #t =54
 
2013-11-18 12:37:25 PM  
Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: Fwd:

...and 0bamohammed's IRS goons are even calling it a "Mosque Tax..."
 
2013-11-18 12:39:09 PM  

The Onion is prophetic: namatad: oh never mind
I hate this discussion. 
If the brick and mortar stores think that this will save them, they really dont understand free home delivery.

Not only that, but even though I have to pay sales tax with Amazon, it's still cheaper than buying something locally because they only charge State tax, not city (6.1% vs 8.1%)


Somebody's getting audited.
 
2013-11-18 12:39:35 PM  
Only ten percent of all states are God-fearing Christians: Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon.

That's right, 45 states have sales taxes. Heathens and atheists, the lot of them.
 
2013-11-18 12:39:56 PM  

namatad: oh never mind
I hate this discussion.
If the brick and mortar stores think that this will save them, they really dont understand free home delivery.


Maybe not, but really, there is no excuse to penalize brick-and-mortar stores with a tax only they incur. I mean, seriously, the government is literally making everything they sell ~5% more expensive. That's easily enough to make a substantial difference.

You're right, though, that brick-and-mortar stores won't be saved by this.
 
2013-11-18 12:40:46 PM  
In theory, I don't have a problem with some sort of sales tax on internet sales.  Just need to decide on the collection point at point of shipping or receiving.

As long as it's applied to all businesses, though.  Really hate when a state tries to roll this shiat out but it ONLY applies to one company (Amazon).
 
2013-11-18 12:46:19 PM  
Sales taxes existed before, just before the customer was responsible for paying not the business.

Republicans aren't saying they are for promoting criminal behavior are they?


*shocked face*
 
2013-11-18 12:49:35 PM  

vygramul: namatad: oh never mind
I hate this discussion.
If the brick and mortar stores think that this will save them, they really dont understand free home delivery.

Maybe not, but really, there is no excuse to penalize brick-and-mortar stores with a tax only they incur. I mean, seriously, the government is literally making everything they sell ~5% more expensive. That's easily enough to make a substantial difference.

You're right, though, that brick-and-mortar stores won't be saved by this.


At the very least, it will give them a fairer playing field by allowing them to price match on the spot for customers looking at their product and then buying it online.  They'll be able to beat them in terms of delivery time.
 
2013-11-18 12:49:49 PM  

The Onion is prophetic: namatad: oh never mind
I hate this discussion. 
If the brick and mortar stores think that this will save them, they really dont understand free home delivery.

Not only that, but even though I have to pay sales tax with Amazon, it's still cheaper than buying something locally because they only charge State tax, not city (6.1% vs 8.1%)


I have actually cut my spending since Amazon started collecting sales tax in Florida. Guess I just needed that little extra push to stop being an idiot and buying useless crap. Thanks Obama.
 
2013-11-18 12:51:56 PM  
Hmmmm.  Say, any Amazon Prime experts here?

Is there any new items that AREN'T prime eligible?  Does it list it like that some how?
 
2013-11-18 12:54:17 PM  
Every state and locality with a sales tax has legislation on the books that if sales taxes were not paid on a sale made while you were physically residing in their jurisdiction, you are to file these taxes on your annual tax return. Review your tax return and there will be a section for noting the dollar amount spent on purchases where sales taxes were not taken at the point of sale.

This is established law going back to the early days of the Sears Roebuck catalog where it was determined that in mail-order interstate sales the transaction happens at the location of the buyer, not the seller for the purposes of the law. The idea was that it was difficult for a company in California to obtain and keep track of the proper tax laws to report all sales quarterly/annually with a state they have no involvement with otherwise. The purchaser meanwhile has to deal with the states so they were better equipped to handle this portion of the transaction.

People rarely claim any such purchases on their taxes because it's really difficult to enforce or prove, and you'd be chasing pennies essentially in a real audit when you consider the manhours necessary to accurately prove what the taxpayer did spend. Meanwhile, people are spending a larger portion of their money on out-of-state sales, often with online company that specializes in shipping nationally or internationally. There really isn't a very good excuse for why they can't file taxes with multiple jurisdictions just because they don't live there: technology is available that can divvy up revenue by credit card billing address and determine what the correct rates should be. All legislation suggested has said that if a state wants to be part of this they are responsible for making such software available to companies if they expect them to file taxes with them.

There really isn't an argument against sales taxes including goods purchased on the Internet beyond "I want to continue my tax evasion."
 
2013-11-18 12:57:06 PM  

pueblonative: vygramul: namatad: oh never mind
I hate this discussion.
If the brick and mortar stores think that this will save them, they really dont understand free home delivery.

Maybe not, but really, there is no excuse to penalize brick-and-mortar stores with a tax only they incur. I mean, seriously, the government is literally making everything they sell ~5% more expensive. That's easily enough to make a substantial difference.

You're right, though, that brick-and-mortar stores won't be saved by this.

At the very least, it will give them a fairer playing field by allowing them to price match on the spot for customers looking at their product and then buying it online.  They'll be able to beat them in terms of delivery time.


They also have the bonus of not having to rely on pictures of a product. I can be convinced to pay more in order to know I'm getting exactly the thing I want. I can test pens, see whether knobs break off of stereo components, and play with the UI of a tablet. They have some advantages - the question is if they can leverage them to stay open.
 
2013-11-18 12:57:27 PM  
Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT) called it a "clear infringement on states' rights that we cannot stand for."

Hmm ... I don't know - still seems a little hazy to me.  Can anyone explain what right of Wyoming's is being violated if California collect sales taxes from someone doing business in their state?
 
2013-11-18 12:57:44 PM  
Give to Caesar what is Caesars . . . a big middle finger.
 
2013-11-18 12:58:01 PM  
This is a stupid law.  The internet was just fine without having to pay sales tax and the consumers really don't need things to be made MORE expensive, especially in this economy.  This is nothng more than anti-competitive dictatorship payed for by brick and mortar stores that refused to adapt to the new technological age.  Newsflash:  You WILL be dragged kicking and screaming into the next century just like the music and movie industries.  Adapt to your competition or die.
 
2013-11-18 12:58:17 PM  

Karac: Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT) called it a "clear infringement on states' rights that we cannot stand for."

Hmm ... I don't know - still seems a little hazy to me.  Can anyone explain what right of Wyoming's is being violated if California collect sales taxes from someone doing business in their state?


POTATO'S RIGHTS
 
2013-11-18 12:59:47 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Hmmmm.  Say, any Amazon Prime experts here?

Is there any new items that AREN'T prime eligible?  Does it list it like that some how?


Prime member here:

There is a bunch of stuff, mostly odds and ends from 3rd party vendors.  If I had to guess, About 1/3rd to 1/2 of stuff on Amazon isn't Prime eligible.

That being said, I got a 70 pounds piece of computer electronics delivered in 2 days with it, so that pretty much paid for it.
 
2013-11-18 01:00:21 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Hmmmm.  Say, any Amazon Prime experts here?

Is there any new items that AREN'T prime eligible?  Does it list it like that some how?


Never thought to look. There are lots of things that aren't, but you can filter those out. I rarely come across things that I want that I can't find for free shipping on Amazon.

One interesting exception to prime being worth it was poker-tables. I was thinking of getting one, and found that the prime-eligible ones were about $60-$100 more expensive than virtually identical ones without free shipping. They were basically identical in price one that was considered. (I passed.)

Generally speaking, it's been well worth the membership fee, and some surprisingly heavy things are available with free shipping.
 
2013-11-18 01:01:29 PM  

Warlordtrooper: This is a stupid law.  The internet was just fine without having to pay sales tax and the consumers really don't need things to be made MORE expensive, especially in this economy.  This is nothng more than anti-competitive dictatorship payed for by brick and mortar stores that refused to adapt to the new technological age.  Newsflash:  You WILL be dragged kicking and screaming into the next century just like the music and movie industries.  Adapt to your competition or die.


I don't think it's exactly competitive to target brick-and-mortar stores with a sales tax.
 
2013-11-18 01:02:19 PM  
I'm ok with this.
 
2013-11-18 01:02:20 PM  

Warlordtrooper: The internet was just fine without having to pay sales tax


The internet was doing fine, it was state general funds that were being hurt by the decrease in sales tax compliance from the shift to online purchases (plus the loss of all the additional fees and taxes they are able to charge on companies with a physical presence in state, but that's a little more arguable.)
 
2013-11-18 01:05:14 PM  

Warlordtrooper: The internet was just fine without having to pay sales tax


I'm fairly certain that no one was concerned that not having to pay sales tax was an impediment to internet businesses.
 
2013-11-18 01:05:48 PM  
Put another way, it would turn small, online businesses into tax collectors for states in which they have no real connection.

No connection, other than the fact that they are selling their products to customers in those states (and only collect taxes for sales to those states).
 
2013-11-18 01:13:20 PM  

Grungehamster: The internet was doing fine, it was state general funds that were being hurt by the decrease in sales tax compliance from the shift to online purchases (plus the loss of all the additional fees and taxes they are able to charge on companies with a physical presence in state, but that's a little more arguable.)


And municipalities.  It's a bit of a big deal for municipalities that collect more of their revenues from sales taxes than from property taxes.  This problem gets compounded even more in Dillon's rule states where the municipalities are effectively unable to alter how they collect taxes without state acceptance.
 
2013-11-18 01:24:25 PM  
Long haul truckers and business that have company trucks to ship goods around the country, have been dealing with this same multi-state paradigm of taxation for years.  Because they have to pay the excise and use taxes in every state there trucks drive through.  It has been over ten years ago now, but I worked on a project of IFTA which set up a kind of clearinghouse for these taxes to the individual states.  So, that instead of sending X number of returns to each state where the tax is owed, they could send one check to IFTA which would disperse the monies to the individual states.

So, the internet companies can handle it.
 
2013-11-18 01:32:43 PM  
A few years ago i did a temp job with L.L. Bean work their call center in Maine.  I had to deal with this a few times.  The law that deals with sales taxes and internet sales dose have a part that states that if the online place you are buying from has a store anywhere in your state, then the company has to collect sales tax from you.  I would get calls form people ticked off as to why they got charged sales tax.
 
2013-11-18 01:45:03 PM  

gunslinger_RG: Long haul truckers and business that have company trucks to ship goods around the country, have been dealing with this same multi-state paradigm of taxation for years.  Because they have to pay the excise and use taxes in every state there trucks drive through.  It has been over ten years ago now, but I worked on a project of IFTA which set up a kind of clearinghouse for these taxes to the individual states.  So, that instead of sending X number of returns to each state where the tax is owed, they could send one check to IFTA which would disperse the monies to the individual states.

So, the internet companies can handle it.


Yep; IFTA just requires you keep quarterly records of the miles run per state and gallons purchased in each so that no state gets screwed over because drivers are filling up on the other side of the state line to avoid fuel taxes while still using public roads. It simplifies matters quite a bit.

jumac: A few years ago i did a temp job with L.L. Bean work their call center in Maine.  I had to deal with this a few times.  The law that deals with sales taxes and internet sales dose have a part that states that if the online place you are buying from has a store anywhere in your state, then the company has to collect sales tax from you.  I would get calls form people ticked off as to why they got charged sales tax.


That's why "internet sales tax" is a misnomer; this is a problem tracing back to mail order shipping, and localities expect you to handle the sales tax if you're already paying taxes in their area anyway.
 
2013-11-18 02:30:26 PM  

namatad: If the brick and mortar stores think that this will save them, they really dont understand free home delivery.


People pay extra at a B&M for customer service and expertise.  Retailers haven't been willing to outlay for that in almost two decades.
 
2013-11-18 02:51:41 PM  
Actually, it's a good idea since sales climb to insanely guilt-ridden levels during the Season™.

Nice little pot of revenue there.
 
2013-11-18 02:53:17 PM  
It's as though Christ never said anything about taxes.

/eyeroll
 
2013-11-18 03:20:22 PM  

namatad: oh never mind
I hate this discussion. 
If the brick and mortar stores think that this will save them, they really dont understand free home delivery.


If I'm buying a $1000 TV, I'd rather be able to return/exchange it in person then deal with the hassle of shipping it back to Amazon/whoever. I'm not going to let a few dollars of sales tax change that.
 
2013-11-18 03:29:41 PM  

Derwood: namatad: oh never mind
I hate this discussion.
If the brick and mortar stores think that this will save them, they really dont understand free home delivery.

If I'm buying a $1000 TV, I'd rather be able to return/exchange it in person then deal with the hassle of shipping it back to Amazon/whoever. I'm not going to let a few dollars of sales tax change that.


I have quite the opposite reaction. I'm buying a $3000 50" TV, and it sure as hell doesn't fit in my Lexus. Better to have Amazon deliver it.
 
2013-11-18 03:37:31 PM  

vygramul: Derwood: namatad: oh never mind
I hate this discussion.
If the brick and mortar stores think that this will save them, they really dont understand free home delivery.

If I'm buying a $1000 TV, I'd rather be able to return/exchange it in person then deal with the hassle of shipping it back to Amazon/whoever. I'm not going to let a few dollars of sales tax change that.

I have quite the opposite reaction. I'm buying a $3000 50" TV, and it sure as hell doesn't fit in my Lexus. Better to have Amazon deliver it.


Or have Best Buy (or whoever) deliver it. Best Buy delivers any TV 50" or larger for free
 
2013-11-18 03:44:39 PM  

Derwood: vygramul: Derwood: namatad: oh never mind
I hate this discussion.
If the brick and mortar stores think that this will save them, they really dont understand free home delivery.

If I'm buying a $1000 TV, I'd rather be able to return/exchange it in person then deal with the hassle of shipping it back to Amazon/whoever. I'm not going to let a few dollars of sales tax change that.

I have quite the opposite reaction. I'm buying a $3000 50" TV, and it sure as hell doesn't fit in my Lexus. Better to have Amazon deliver it.

Or have Best Buy (or whoever) deliver it. Best Buy delivers any TV 50" or larger for free


Then I have to deal with the hassle of shipping it back to Best Buy/whoever if I need to return it.
 
2013-11-18 03:51:39 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Derwood: vygramul: Derwood: namatad: oh never mind
I hate this discussion.
If the brick and mortar stores think that this will save them, they really dont understand free home delivery.

If I'm buying a $1000 TV, I'd rather be able to return/exchange it in person then deal with the hassle of shipping it back to Amazon/whoever. I'm not going to let a few dollars of sales tax change that.

I have quite the opposite reaction. I'm buying a $3000 50" TV, and it sure as hell doesn't fit in my Lexus. Better to have Amazon deliver it.

Or have Best Buy (or whoever) deliver it. Best Buy delivers any TV 50" or larger for free

Then I have to deal with the hassle of shipping it back to Best Buy/whoever if I need to return it.


Best Buy is a brick and mortar chain. So his point was that I can go to it and buy a TV there just as easily as at Amazon and both will deliver.
 
2013-11-18 04:03:39 PM  

gunslinger_RG: Long haul truckers and business that have company trucks to ship goods around the country, have been dealing with this same multi-state paradigm of taxation for years.  Because they have to pay the excise and use taxes in every state there trucks drive through.  It has been over ten years ago now, but I worked on a project of IFTA which set up a kind of clearinghouse for these taxes to the individual states.  So, that instead of sending X number of returns to each state where the tax is owed, they could send one check to IFTA which would disperse the monies to the individual states.

So, the internet companies can handle it.


Its not about being an impediment to internet businsses.  Its about squeezing the customer for money that, in this economy they cannot afford.  People don't have all sorts of spare change to be paying this extra charge on top of all the extra nickle and dime charges that corporations and governments already try and hit us for.  This is a direct penalty to people like you and me who got used to not having to pay this tax when doing business on the internet.  Its not right that the government step in and take even more from us.
 
2013-11-18 04:14:57 PM  

Warlordtrooper: gunslinger_RG: Long haul truckers and business that have company trucks to ship goods around the country, have been dealing with this same multi-state paradigm of taxation for years.  Because they have to pay the excise and use taxes in every state there trucks drive through.  It has been over ten years ago now, but I worked on a project of IFTA which set up a kind of clearinghouse for these taxes to the individual states.  So, that instead of sending X number of returns to each state where the tax is owed, they could send one check to IFTA which would disperse the monies to the individual states.

So, the internet companies can handle it.

Its not about being an impediment to internet businsses.  Its about squeezing the customer for money that, in this economy they cannot afford.  People don't have all sorts of spare change to be paying this extra charge on top of all the extra nickle and dime charges that corporations and governments already try and hit us for.  This is a direct penalty to people like you and me who got used to not having to pay this tax when doing business on the internet.  Its not right that the government step in and take even more from us.


Take that to it's logical conclusion an you have not taxes whatsoever.  However, I drive to work on roads, and throughout the day, I am the indirect, and sometimes direct beneficiary of a society.  This is not free... therefore someone has to pay taxes.  So, I have no problem with it.
 
2013-11-18 05:03:59 PM  
Wow...the Age of Innocence...Ended.

i4.ytimg.com
 
2013-11-18 05:43:22 PM  
Brick & Mortar is easier to do returns.
Online is easier to shop for hard-to-find items.
Brick & Mortar is instant gratification.
Online is better pricing.
Brick & Mortar is great for seeing items in person before buying.
Online is great for avoiding long lines and obnoxious fat people on Amigos.

They each have their benefits. Use both as needed.
 
2013-11-18 08:32:26 PM  
Do you think the Three Kings would have ordered Gold, Frankincense, and Myrrh from Amazon if there had been a tax on internet purchases. If there had been a tax on internet sales when Jesus was a baby, there never would have been a first Christmas.
 
2013-11-18 09:40:56 PM  
I can't wait until the War on Christmas derp hits Fark full-fledged. I predict it will be better this year than ever before thanks to all those people being so mad about it.
 
2013-11-18 11:18:25 PM  
I expect to hear about WAR ON CHRISTMAS 2014TM before New Year's.
 
2013-11-18 11:43:40 PM  

Warlordtrooper: Its not about being an impediment to internet businsses.  Its about squeezing the customer for money that, in this economy they cannot afford.  People don't have all sorts of spare change to be paying this extra charge on top of all the extra nickle and dime charges that corporations and governments already try and hit us for.  This is a direct penalty to people like you and me who got used to not having to pay this tax when doing business on the internet.  Its not right that the government step in and take even more from us.


So, basically you're saying that we should maintain the same unfair system that penalizes local businesses that employ local people, and gives advantages to businesses with no local presence and distant distribution centers, just because you (YOU!) are used to not paying taxes. No consideration to what perverse incentives the current setup creates, no consideration to what is actually fair to people who own businesses, no consideration to anything except you're not used to paying taxes on these transactions.

Try making a coherent argument next time. There's a whole argument to be made that compliance costs for these businesses will be too high, or that imposing sales taxes will stunt the growth of a still-developing market, or any number of other lines of reasoning. I usually try to be polite here, but you didn't even begin to think about what you were saying before you started typing. I suppose that when I saw the words "in this economy..." I should have just stopped reading, and that's my fault, but come on.
 
2013-11-18 11:44:01 PM  
Having to pay sales tax still beats the hell out of dealing with the incompetent farks at your local chain store.

Also, this "war on christmas" bullshiat is the laziest Gawker-tier clickbait ever. I's fairly certain that nobody takes seriously aside from a few loony cultural warrors.
 
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