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(Daily Mail)   Google to prevent searches for child sexual abuse, apparently just having thought of this   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 61
    More: Spiffy, Eric Schmidt, Google, Exploited Children, Government of the United Kingdom, child sexual abuse, technological fix  
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1383 clicks; posted to Geek » on 18 Nov 2013 at 9:57 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-18 09:44:55 AM  
More like Google announced it but Microsoft tech actually makes it happen.

And Microsoft deserves a lot of credit for developing and sharing its picture detection technology.
 
2013-11-18 10:08:39 AM  

hinten: More like Google announced it but Microsoft tech actually makes it happen.

And Microsoft deserves a lot of credit for developing and sharing its picture detection technology.


That's part of it. Google is doing a lot of work with its own algorithms as well according to TFA, especially when it comes to trying to do the same digital fingerprint trick with video versus images. The digital fingerprinting for images is great, but you have to already have identified images to flag first.
 
2013-11-18 10:24:58 AM  
so they are blocking 4chan?
 
2013-11-18 10:26:03 AM  

entropic_existence: hinten: More like Google announced it but Microsoft tech actually makes it happen.

And Microsoft deserves a lot of credit for developing and sharing its picture detection technology.

That's part of it. Google is doing a lot of work with its own algorithms as well according to TFA, especially when it comes to trying to do the same digital fingerprint trick with video versus images. The digital fingerprinting for images is great, but you have to already have identified images to flag first.


It's cool that both of the companies are doing this.  If, as the op-ed says, Google really has 200 people working on this, that's an annual commitment of around $20 million by Google.  That's pretty awesome.
 
2013-11-18 10:32:17 AM  
Even if you have a broken moral compass, isn't it incredibly stressful going through life having to hide the fact that you do terrible things? Maybe I'm just too lazy to be evil.
 
2013-11-18 10:38:58 AM  
What if I am searching how to prevent child abuse?
 
2013-11-18 10:40:49 AM  

stuhayes2010: What if I am searching how to prevent child abuse?


That's why they're spending so much money and spending such resources on this.  They want to be able to allow things like child abuse prevention, help for victims of sexual abuse, heck even allowing of actual adults in porn that look like they're under age but aren't really children and do this while going out and protecting actual children from assault and abuse.  It's a difficult job, really, which is why it's so time consuming and so expensive and such a technological challenge.
 
2013-11-18 10:45:31 AM  

browntimmy: Even if you have a broken moral compass, isn't it incredibly stressful going through life having to hide the fact that you do terrible things? Maybe I'm just too lazy to be evil.


Under the circumstances, I'd label that a virtue. "If it wasn't for the paperwork and micromanagement, I'd have run a concentration camp" is hardly an endorsement, however.
 
2013-11-18 10:46:12 AM  

stuhayes2010: What if I am searching how to prevent child abuse?


I dunno, Pete, but I won't get fooled again.
 
2013-11-18 10:46:43 AM  

Wolf892: I always assumed this was already being done. If you Google search underage bum blisters you would get a knock at the door a few minutes later. Weird to hear up till now you wouldn't.


Yeah, I kinda freaked myself out when one of my kids got some pretty nasty diaper rash. I googled "severe diaper rash" and some of the results were waaaaay too explicit.
 
2013-11-18 10:48:49 AM  

meanmutton: stuhayes2010: What if I am searching how to prevent child abuse?

That's why they're spending so much money and spending such resources on this.  They want to be able to allow things like child abuse prevention, help for victims of sexual abuse, heck even allowing of actual adults in porn that look like they're under age but aren't really children and do this while going out and protecting actual children from assault and abuse.  It's a difficult job, really, which is why it's so time consuming and so expensive and such a technological challenge.


Incidentally, I would love to meet the guy whose job it is to whitelist weird legal shiat. He must have a hell of a sense of humor.
 
2013-11-18 10:50:06 AM  

Wolf892: I always assumed this was already being done. If you Google search underage bum blisters you would get a knock at the door a few minutes later. Weird to hear up till now you wouldn't.


I think it would likely be inaccurate to say that they hadn't been working on this at all. It is just a tough problem to solve.
 
2013-11-18 10:53:47 AM  

Tommy Moo: meanmutton: stuhayes2010: What if I am searching how to prevent child abuse?

That's why they're spending so much money and spending such resources on this.  They want to be able to allow things like child abuse prevention, help for victims of sexual abuse, heck even allowing of actual adults in porn that look like they're under age but aren't really children and do this while going out and protecting actual children from assault and abuse.  It's a difficult job, really, which is why it's so time consuming and so expensive and such a technological challenge.

Incidentally, I would love to meet the guy whose job it is to whitelist weird legal shiat. He must have a hell of a sense of humor.


I don't know how long someone could take a job like that.  That person would also be the guy who has to see a lot of the weird, illegal shiat.  He's the one answering the question, was this video of a woman being raped and murdered real or faked?
 
2013-11-18 10:53:55 AM  

LemSkroob: so they are blocking 4chan?


Doubtful. 4chan is Google's biggest fanboi.
 
2013-11-18 11:01:03 AM  
It might be because Google tends to try to do things using algorithms and having those learn what goes where. IIRC, they don't like to put in static things into search, but instead tweak their search AI so it picks up on various things on its own. Which is probably why Google uses the chilling effects and "search result has been removed due to the DMCA" as a middle finger to whoever sent it, since that's yet another static entry they have to add to an ever increasing blocklist.
 
2013-11-18 11:05:26 AM  

Valiente: stuhayes2010: What if I am searching how to prevent child abuse?

I dunno, Pete, but I won't get fooled again.


I'd just say I can't explain.
 
2013-11-18 11:07:15 AM  

meanmutton: while going out and protecting actual children from assault and abuse


Google is trying to prevent content searches because that's all they can prevent.  If there's a picture or video, the kid's already been abused.  I think the real goal here is to prevent further damage in the form of PTSD triggers, humiliation or blackmail.  Last thing someone needs after years of therapy is to be shown or otherwise reminded that their abuse is not only public knowledge but permanently so.
 
2013-11-18 11:10:33 AM  

ChrisDe: Valiente: stuhayes2010: What if I am searching how to prevent child abuse?

I dunno, Pete, but I won't get fooled again.

I'd just say I can't explain.


Pre-teenage waistline?
 
2013-11-18 11:14:52 AM  
Boss: "Hey why don't you whitebox test this child porno detection filter?"
Tester: "Uuhh because reasons?"
 
2013-11-18 11:45:07 AM  
yea, don't go to the actual folks doing the kiddie porn,  filter everyone else's search and no one will have a problem with it because it involves kiddie porn.

well done.

i wonder what the next search catagory to be filtered will be?
 
2013-11-18 11:46:09 AM  

hinten: More like Google announced it but Microsoft tech actually makes it happen.

And Microsoft deserves a lot of credit for developing and sharing its picture detection technology.



cause after all, Monopoly$oft is looking out for all of our interests.    wink.
 
2013-11-18 11:47:20 AM  

stuhayes2010: What if I am searching how to prevent child abuse?



you will be dealt with, Freedom lover.
 
2013-11-18 11:47:44 AM  
meanmutton:
It's cool that both of the companies are doing this.  If, as the op-ed says, Google really has 200 people working on this, that's an annual commitment of around $20 million by Google.  That's pretty awesome.

I wonder if part of their motivation (for committing such a large resource to this) is that following the actions of the UK (and Australia IIRC did something similar) they figure if they don't do something on their own initiative then pretty soon more and more governments will require them to do stuff to avoid being viewed as accomplices, and that cost of compliance with dozens of different countries regulations and legal costs associated with mitigating risk of prosecutions would dwarf the costs of a bit of honest self regulation.

I'm certainly not complaining they're doing this and it's great that they are and I suspect that Google's approach will result in far less BS for a lot of people than governments trying this stuff on their own -  it's just that they've had over a decade to start on this but only seem to have found motivation after a couple of countries started passing fairly aggressive legislation aimed at tacking the problem.
 
2013-11-18 11:49:47 AM  

meanmutton: Tommy Moo: meanmutton: stuhayes2010: What if I am searching how to prevent child abuse?

That's why they're spending so much money and spending such resources on this.  They want to be able to allow things like child abuse prevention, help for victims of sexual abuse, heck even allowing of actual adults in porn that look like they're under age but aren't really children and do this while going out and protecting actual children from assault and abuse.  It's a difficult job, really, which is why it's so time consuming and so expensive and such a technological challenge.

Incidentally, I would love to meet the guy whose job it is to whitelist weird legal shiat. He must have a hell of a sense of humor.

I don't know how long someone could take a job like that.  That person would also be the guy who has to see a lot of the weird, illegal shiat.  He's the one answering the question, was this video of a woman being raped and murdered real or faked?



well, how do folks in hospitals, etc wipe someone's ass??   or clean up after a wreck full of body parts??
 
2013-11-18 11:50:31 AM  

croesius: Wolf892: I always assumed this was already being done. If you Google search underage bum blisters you would get a knock at the door a few minutes later. Weird to hear up till now you wouldn't.

Yeah, I kinda freaked myself out when one of my kids got some pretty nasty diaper rash. I googled "severe diaper rash" and some of the results were waaaaay too explicit.



you loved it!!    wink.    lol
 
2013-11-18 11:52:05 AM  
Google employees 200 people to search through porn all day?
 
2013-11-18 12:07:07 PM  

netweavr: Google employees 200 people to search through porn all day?


nope.

Google employs 200 people to search for child porn all day. Their porn team is in the thousands.
 
2013-11-18 12:16:56 PM  

meanmutton: Tommy Moo: meanmutton: stuhayes2010: What if I am searching how to prevent child abuse?

That's why they're spending so much money and spending such resources on this.  They want to be able to allow things like child abuse prevention, help for victims of sexual abuse, heck even allowing of actual adults in porn that look like they're under age but aren't really children and do this while going out and protecting actual children from assault and abuse.  It's a difficult job, really, which is why it's so time consuming and so expensive and such a technological challenge.

Incidentally, I would love to meet the guy whose job it is to whitelist weird legal shiat. He must have a hell of a sense of humor.

I don't know how long someone could take a job like that.  That person would also be the guy who has to see a lot of the weird, illegal shiat.  He's the one answering the question, was this video of a woman being raped and murdered real or faked?


*gets to work, checks email*

Subject: New keywords for your investigation

[...]
futanari
[...]

forum.gamerage.com
 
2013-11-18 12:19:13 PM  

Pichu0102: It might be because Google tends to try to do things using algorithms and having those learn what goes where. IIRC, they don't like to put in static things into search, but instead tweak their search AI so it picks up on various things on its own.


Google appears to have at times a lot of people hand tweaking what they index. Years ago there appeared at EncyclopediaDramatica.an article on serial adders - people who add everybody to their "friends" list. However the article started out:

In 1967 Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) introduced the pdp8/s mini-computer. To make this computer affordable it contained only a 1-bit adder and it had to compute the addition of two 12 bit words in series, one bit at a time. With respect to a "straight" pdp8 with a parallel adder, the performance of the pdp-8/s with its serial adder was quite lame or gay.

In early 2004 a new Internet phenomenon reached LiveJournal, that of the serial adder, ...


This article soon rose to being the top result for searches involving PDP8s and/or serial arithmetic.

Then at some time someone at Google seemed to put in an explicit rule to somewhat ignore the first paragraph of that particular article and it dropped heavily in rankings. Searches that did turn up that article would start their search display "snippet" with the second paragraph even when search terms appeared in the first paragraph.

Something again has changed at Google because it now has the search rankings

#1 for "serial adder pdp8"
#4 for "serial ALU pdp8"
#1 for "pdp8 gay"
#? for "straight pdp8"

and they will have to figure out how to derank it in the new scheme while still allowing people to find it if that is what they are looking for.

(When I noticed that article's ranking I wish I had kept track of how it changed as some insight into how Google tweaks its indexing)

I sure Google still has lots of employees who add info about particular sites or pages - most importantly a list of known porn sites which are blocked from safe search and their images that can only be found in unsafe search by explicitly including something like "naked". I would hate to be a Google employee whose job it was to find and add new sites to the porn list.
 
2013-11-18 12:22:52 PM  

uttertosh: netweavr: Google employees 200 people to search through porn all day?

nope.

Google employs 200 people to search for child porn all day. Their porn team is in the thousands.


Talk about a job that would make you hate humanity.
 
2013-11-18 12:47:49 PM  

netweavr: uttertosh: netweavr: Google employees 200 people to search through porn all day?

nope.

Google employs 200 people to search for child porn all day. Their porn team is in the thousands.

Talk about a job that would make you hate humanity.


I'm right with you on the sentiment - can you imagine the workers comp when all 200 end up attempting suicide. Not a jerb for the faint of heart/stomach/soul. Can't even imagine how the internal job ad might be worded.
 
2013-11-18 12:55:27 PM  
On a side note, the article mentions that they have actual people reviewing the flagged images.

How the hell do you put that on your resume?  "I spent 5 years looking at child pornography while at work".

Geez, and I thought my job was bad.
 
2013-11-18 01:17:16 PM  
13,000 terms that will cause a notification to pop-up on your screen telling you CP images are illegal...what are the terms? I can just imagine an IT guy checking out someones browser history and seeing these images, making them think a particular person was actively looking for CP, when it could of been an innocent search.
 
2013-11-18 01:24:17 PM  
Is anybody else becoming more and more uneasy with Google's growing role as web censor?

They develop all this tech to get their servers to recognize certain types of searches, certain types of content, and even understand what is in images being looked at.

Right now the tech is "To Protect The Children" so everybody is cheering it on (though I'm deeply skeptical about how many child sexual assaults it will ACTUALLY prevent) but what content will we be "protected" from next?
 
KIA
2013-11-18 01:26:10 PM  

uttertosh: netweavr: uttertosh: netweavr: Google employees 200 people to search through porn all day?

nope.

Google employs 200 people to search for child porn all day. Their porn team is in the thousands.

Talk about a job that would make you hate humanity.

I'm right with you on the sentiment - can you imagine the workers comp when all 200 end up attempting suicide. Not a jerb for the faint of heart/stomach/soul. Can't even imagine how the internal job ad might be worded.


An attorney acquaintance told me that he started at a prosecutor's office with a case where they had to review the evidence to put away a pedo. It involved individual review of thousands of such photos. He only made it through one day before he had to ask to be reassigned. Left soon after.

The more this type of thing can be automated, the better.
 
2013-11-18 01:36:24 PM  
Who the hell uses Google to search for Child Porn? I wouldnt' know myself where to even look but I'm going to go out on a limb Google wouldn't be the place.
 
2013-11-18 01:39:42 PM  

Edymnion: On a side note, the article mentions that they have actual people reviewing the flagged images.

How the hell do you put that on your resume?  "I spent 5 years looking at child pornography while at work".

Geez, and I thought my job was bad.


I have a friend who works at the sheriffs department and he told me they have a detective whose job is basically looking for and tracking down local producers of CP. He searches CP all day. What a soul crushing job.
 
2013-11-18 01:41:19 PM  
"Last week 348 people were arrested in Canada"

nope.

Arrested world wide.
 
2013-11-18 01:44:02 PM  

Igor Jakovsky: Edymnion: On a side note, the article mentions that they have actual people reviewing the flagged images.

How the hell do you put that on your resume?  "I spent 5 years looking at child pornography while at work".

Geez, and I thought my job was bad.

I have a friend who works at the sheriffs department and he told me they have a detective whose job is basically looking for and tracking down local producers of CP. He searches CP all day. What a soul crushing job.


Jesus christ.. I'd rather work in retail for minimum wage than have that job. I'd never have kids if I had that job because I'd probably rage  on anyone who even remotely pays them a single bit of attention.
 
2013-11-18 01:44:40 PM  

styckx: Who the hell uses Google to search for Child Porn? I wouldnt' know myself where to even look but I'm going to go out on a limb Google wouldn't be the place.


I've never understood the business model for child porn. Selling cocaine i get, theoretically anybody could become a client. But kiddie porn distributor seems like right up there with "murder for hire" in terms of how much heat you get relative to potential pay. Are these all just sick pervert hobbyists?

i assume the kiddy fiddlers must have their signs and signals, but for me, i'm glad when a random gis can't potentially turn up cp.
 
2013-11-18 02:01:15 PM  

LemSkroob: so they are blocking 4chan?


No, just 420chan.
 
2013-11-18 02:08:18 PM  

Igor Jakovsky: I have a friend who works at the sheriffs department and he told me they have a detective whose job is basically looking for and tracking down local producers of CP. He searches CP all day. What a soul crushing job.


He sounds like a self-appointed vigilante who likes searching for child porn.

I don't think child porn production is all that common - there is a global but not local market. Maybe for a locale with a metropolitan population of 1-2 million there may be one arrest for production every year or two, though I have no actual statistics.

Then again there maybe some national service that sends out alerts like "can you identify the people or locations in this video?" but I've heard the feds are very strict on who can access their porn database for "research purposes".
 
2013-11-18 02:11:02 PM  

ferretman: 13,000 terms that will cause a notification to pop-up on your screen telling you CP images are illegal...what are the terms? I can just imagine an IT guy checking out someones browser history and seeing these images, making them think a particular person was actively looking for CP, when it could of been an innocent search.


It isn't going to be single word searches, it will be lots of phrases, word combos, and permutations that are flagged. It isn't exactly difficult to think of the types of search term combos and I highly doubt there will be many that would be triggered by innocent searches.

Riche: Is anybody else becoming more and more uneasy with Google's growing role as web censor?

They develop all this tech to get their servers to recognize certain types of searches, certain types of content, and even understand what is in images being looked at.

Right now the tech is "To Protect The Children" so everybody is cheering it on (though I'm deeply skeptical about how many child sexual assaults it will ACTUALLY prevent) but what content will we be "protected" from next?


Even if you are the most popular search engine ever, you can't really be a web censor. People can use whatever search engine they want. Yes, there are apparently lots of underground, dark net type places where a lot of this stuff gets passed around, at least according to what you see in news reports anytime these big rings are busted up. But apparently a lot of people also use pretty run of the mill search engines. The biggest issue is trying to actually identify children and identify the people producing the stuff in the first place. That apparently is incredibly difficult. But doing what you can to make obtaining stuff more difficult helps too.
 
2013-11-18 02:13:42 PM  

HairBolus: Igor Jakovsky: I have a friend who works at the sheriffs department and he told me they have a detective whose job is basically looking for and tracking down local producers of CP. He searches CP all day. What a soul crushing job.

He sounds like a self-appointed vigilante who likes searching for child porn.

I don't think child porn production is all that common - there is a global but not local market. Maybe for a locale with a metropolitan population of 1-2 million there may be one arrest for production every year or two, though I have no actual statistics.

Then again there maybe some national service that sends out alerts like "can you identify the people or locations in this video?" but I've heard the feds are very strict on who can access their porn database for "research purposes".


Large police departments (and a Sheriff's Department can potentially cover a large jurisdiction with lots of people) usually do have detectives specifically assigned to CP duties. And yes, there are large collaborative task forces now across jurisdictional boundaries because it is an international crime these days. That is, from what I understand, still in its infancy as more and more formal procedures and working groups start up instead of ad hoc groups for specific investigations.
 
2013-11-18 02:22:30 PM  

HairBolus: Igor Jakovsky: I have a friend who works at the sheriffs department and he told me they have a detective whose job is basically looking for and tracking down local producers of CP. He searches CP all day. What a soul crushing job.

He sounds like a self-appointed vigilante who likes searching for child porn.

I don't think child porn production is all that common - there is a global but not local market. Maybe for a locale with a metropolitan population of 1-2 million there may be one arrest for production every year or two, though I have no actual statistics.

Then again there maybe some national service that sends out alerts like "can you identify the people or locations in this video?" but I've heard the feds are very strict on who can access their porn database for "research purposes".


I don't know....statistics are that 3 to 4 out of 10 girls is abused and 2 out of 10 boys...
 
2013-11-18 02:23:01 PM  

Linux_Yes: meanmutton: Tommy Moo: meanmutton: stuhayes2010: What if I am searching how to prevent child abuse?

That's why they're spending so much money and spending such resources on this.  They want to be able to allow things like child abuse prevention, help for victims of sexual abuse, heck even allowing of actual adults in porn that look like they're under age but aren't really children and do this while going out and protecting actual children from assault and abuse.  It's a difficult job, really, which is why it's so time consuming and so expensive and such a technological challenge.

Incidentally, I would love to meet the guy whose job it is to whitelist weird legal shiat. He must have a hell of a sense of humor.

I don't know how long someone could take a job like that.  That person would also be the guy who has to see a lot of the weird, illegal shiat.  He's the one answering the question, was this video of a woman being raped and murdered real or faked?


well, how do folks in hospitals, etc wipe someone's ass??   or clean up after a wreck full of body parts??


I'm a parent; I've changed plenty of diapers.  Wiping someone else's ass isn't that big a deal.  Cleaning up dead bodies?  I don't understand how people can deal with that.
 
2013-11-18 02:26:22 PM  

Riche: Is anybody else becoming more and more uneasy with Google's growing role as web censor?

They develop all this tech to get their servers to recognize certain types of searches, certain types of content, and even understand what is in images being looked at.

Right now the tech is "To Protect The Children" so everybody is cheering it on (though I'm deeply skeptical about how many child sexual assaults it will ACTUALLY prevent) but what content will we be "protected" from next?


Well, when we get to that point, if we don't like it, we can choose a different search provider or give them enough public flak that they change their mind.
 
2013-11-18 02:26:45 PM  

Linux_Yes: meanmutton: Tommy Moo: meanmutton: stuhayes2010: What if I am searching how to prevent child abuse?

That's why they're spending so much money and spending such resources on this.  They want to be able to allow things like child abuse prevention, help for victims of sexual abuse, heck even allowing of actual adults in porn that look like they're under age but aren't really children and do this while going out and protecting actual children from assault and abuse.  It's a difficult job, really, which is why it's so time consuming and so expensive and such a technological challenge.

Incidentally, I would love to meet the guy whose job it is to whitelist weird legal shiat. He must have a hell of a sense of humor.

I don't know how long someone could take a job like that.  That person would also be the guy who has to see a lot of the weird, illegal shiat.  He's the one answering the question, was this video of a woman being raped and murdered real or faked?


well, how do folks in hospitals, etc wipe someone's ass??   or clean up after a wreck full of body parts??


This. I would think looking at pictures of anything vile would be less stressful than shoveling real-life body parts from a car wreck or homicide into rubber bags full-time.
 
2013-11-18 02:44:59 PM  

entropic_existence: HairBolus: Igor Jakovsky: I have a friend who works at the sheriffs department and he told me they have a detective whose job is basically looking for and tracking down local producers of CP. He searches CP all day. What a soul crushing job.

He sounds like a self-appointed vigilante who likes searching for child porn.

I don't think child porn production is all that common - there is a global but not local market. Maybe for a locale with a metropolitan population of 1-2 million there may be one arrest for production every year or two, though I have no actual statistics.
...

Large police departments ... usually do have detectives specifically assigned to CP duties. ,,,


entropic_existence  said some detective has a full time job tracking down local production, which I doubt. Local CP duties mostly involve finding customers and distributors, not producers. Conflating all 3 muddies the water.

ferretman: I don't know....statistics are that 3 to 4 out of 10 girls is abused and 2 out of 10 boys...


Oh great. Now we are conflating child abuse with child porn.
 
2013-11-18 02:48:43 PM  

HairBolus: entropic_existence: HairBolus: Igor Jakovsky: I have a friend who works at the sheriffs department and he told me they have a detective whose job is basically looking for and tracking down local producers of CP. He searches CP all day. What a soul crushing job.

He sounds like a self-appointed vigilante who likes searching for child porn.

I don't think child porn production is all that common - there is a global but not local market. Maybe for a locale with a metropolitan population of 1-2 million there may be one arrest for production every year or two, though I have no actual statistics.
...

Large police departments ... usually do have detectives specifically assigned to CP duties. ,,,

entropic_existence  said some detective has a full time job tracking down local production, which I doubt. Local CP duties mostly involve finding customers and distributors, not producers. Conflating all 3 muddies the water.

ferretman: I don't know....statistics are that 3 to 4 out of 10 girls is

sexually abused and 2 out of 10 boys...

Oh great. Now we are conflating child abuse with child porn.


/FTFM
//You don't think pictures/video are taken for 'The memories'?
 
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