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(The New Yorker)   Flat pack conservatism, the extra nuts are supposed to be there   (newyorker.com) divider line 53
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1774 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Nov 2013 at 10:32 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-18 10:41:01 AM  
Really speed-read my way through that, but if you think the Brookings institute and the Cato Institute don't have the same orders coming from top-down about what the objectives are, you haven't been paying attention.

"Think Tank" should be dropped as a word used by journalists.  "Professional Liar Organization" would be a more apt term.  Example

We have with us today [whoever], a professor emeritus from [local college] and from Professional Liar Organization the Brookings institution, [whomever 2] to provide the rebuttal.
 
2013-11-18 10:41:12 AM  
Did anybody not already know this?
 
2013-11-18 10:41:35 AM  
HERPENDERPA
 
2013-11-18 10:43:25 AM  

sendtodave: HERPENDERPA


Such a detailed opinion.
 
2013-11-18 10:49:41 AM  
You mean conservatives are made of a dense material that somehow has no rigidity, some of the parts are missing, and prefer short-term solutions that quickly break down and end up costing you more in the long run?
 
2013-11-18 10:52:08 AM  

ikanreed: sendtodave: HERPENDERPA

Such a detailed opinion.


UMAADBRA?
 
2013-11-18 10:52:24 AM  
No sh*t, think tanks are bullsh*t. If they were credible they'd be publishing in peer-reviewed science journals, not wrangling statistics to try to cloud issues with a predetermined outcome in a biased/misleading "study."
 
2013-11-18 10:54:12 AM  
ALEC revisited?
 
2013-11-18 10:56:20 AM  
sendtodave: HERPENDERPA

HERPENDERPÅ
 
2013-11-18 10:59:25 AM  

Curious: ALEC revisited?


Alex is tactics. They help write legislation that passes constitutional muster.
 
2013-11-18 10:59:47 AM  

ikanreed: Really speed-read my way through that, but if you think the Brookings institute and the Cato Institute don't have the same orders coming from top-down about what the objectives are, you haven't been paying attention.

"Think Tank" should be dropped as a word used by journalists.  "Professional Liar Organization" would be a more apt term.  Example

We have with us today [whoever], a professor emeritus from [local college] and from Professional Liar Organization the Brookings institution, [whomever 2] to provide the rebuttal.


Conservative "think tanks" are more numerous and have been far more effective at getting their biased pseudo-intellectual babble quoted in the media than those on the left wing.

Also, why do you mention Cato as though they significantly differ from the other conservative think tanks? They're hard right wing, were originally founded as the Charles Koch Foundation, and have strong ties to Ayn Rand disciples.
 
2013-11-18 11:00:11 AM  
Errr, ALEC even
 
2013-11-18 11:01:17 AM  
So conservatives still can't accept that it's not their presentation, but their message that turns voters off.

Well, their presentation usually sucks too, but as the noted scholar Butt-Head once said, "you can't polish a turd, Beavis."
 
2013-11-18 11:04:12 AM  
FTFA:  That agenda includes opposing President Obama's health-care program and climate-change regulations, reducing union protections and minimum wages, cutting taxes and business regulations, tightening voting restrictions, and privatizing education.

Yeah, run with that.  People will LOVE it.
 
2013-11-18 11:07:46 AM  
www.laprogressive.com
 
2013-11-18 11:08:12 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: FTFA:  That agenda includes opposing President Obama's health-care program and climate-change regulations, reducing union protections and minimum wages, cutting taxes and business regulations, tightening voting restrictions, and privatizing education.

Yeah, run with that.  People will LOVE it.


In a time when a clear majority of the country supports raising the minimum wage, the GOP is going to campaign on reducing the minimum wage? Oh, for fark's sake.
 
2013-11-18 11:09:06 AM  

MFAWG: Curious: ALEC revisited?

ALEC is tactics. They help write legislation that passes constitutional muster.


true but my point was that both hide their agenda and both are working for a common goal.
 
2013-11-18 11:09:07 AM  

icallhimgamblor: sendtodave: HERPENDERPA

HERPENDERPÅ


Evenbëtta
 
2013-11-18 11:10:57 AM  

Great_Milenko: So conservatives still can't accept that it's not their presentation, but their message that turns voters off.

Well, their presentation usually sucks too, but as the noted scholar Butt-Head once said, "you can't polish a turd, Beavis."


Either it's problem with messaging, or they are wrong.

And they are never wrong.
 
2013-11-18 11:14:06 AM  

ikanreed: Really speed-read my way through that, but if you think the Brookings institute and the Cato Institute don't have the same orders coming from top-down about what the objectives are, you haven't been paying attention.

"Think Tank" should be dropped as a word used by journalists.  "Professional Liar Organization" would be a more apt term.  Example

We have with us today [whoever], a professor emeritus from [local college] and from Professional Liar Organization the Brookings institution, [whomever 2] to provide the rebuttal.


...what programs are you watching where there's anyone to provide rebuttal to these talking points?
 
2013-11-18 11:15:18 AM  
a.abcnews.com

Did someone say flapjack conservatism? I'll take 5!
 
2013-11-18 11:16:01 AM  

ikanreed: Really speed-read my way through that, but if you think the Brookings institute and the Cato Institute don't have the same orders coming from top-down about what the objectives are, you haven't been paying attention.

"Think Tank" should be dropped as a word used by journalists.  "Professional Liar Organization" would be a more apt term.  Example

We have with us today [whoever], a professor emeritus from [local college] and from Professional Liar Organization the Brookings institution, [whomever 2] to provide the rebuttal.


Absolutely. I see the words 'think tank' attached to any group and I immediately think of the creationist vs scientist argument.

Think tanks, and in particular 'conservative' think tanks, find facts to fit their opinions (or outright make them up if they're less honest) while the lib think tanks will often try to modify their opinions.

That isn't to say that never happens on the liberal side. I will say thy conservatives are guilty of the shenanigans far more often than liberals.
 
2013-11-18 11:17:40 AM  

IlGreven: ikanreed: Really speed-read my way through that, but if you think the Brookings institute and the Cato Institute don't have the same orders coming from top-down about what the objectives are, you haven't been paying attention.

"Think Tank" should be dropped as a word used by journalists.  "Professional Liar Organization" would be a more apt term.  Example

We have with us today [whoever], a professor emeritus from [local college] and from Professional Liar Organization the Brookings institution, [whomever 2] to provide the rebuttal.

...what programs are you watching where there's anyone to provide rebuttal to these talking points?


Uh, NPR?  They tend to bring on an academic expert regarding whatever subject they're discussing, then a shill from Cato or Brookings for "balance".
 
2013-11-18 11:20:13 AM  

ikanreed: Uh, NPR? They tend to bring on an academic expert regarding whatever subject they're discussing, then a shill from Cato or Brookings for "balance".



and for a straight up analysis with no agenda what so ever the editor of the WSJ.
 
MFK
2013-11-18 11:21:29 AM  

inglixthemad: ikanreed: Really speed-read my way through that, but if you think the Brookings institute and the Cato Institute don't have the same orders coming from top-down about what the objectives are, you haven't been paying attention.

"Think Tank" should be dropped as a word used by journalists.  "Professional Liar Organization" would be a more apt term.  Example

We have with us today [whoever], a professor emeritus from [local college] and from Professional Liar Organization the Brookings institution, [whomever 2] to provide the rebuttal.

Absolutely. I see the words 'think tank' attached to any group and I immediately think of the creationist vs scientist argument.

Think tanks, and in particular 'conservative' think tanks, find facts to fit their opinions (or outright make them up if they're less honest) while the lib think tanks will often try to modify their opinions.

That isn't to say that never happens on the liberal side. I will say thy conservatives are guilty of the shenanigans far more often than liberals.


I've always found that the BSAB argument to flesh out like this in reality:

Democrat will slap you in the face - that's bad.
Republican will slap you in the face, stab you a half dozen times, shatter your kneecaps with a claw hammer, and tear out chunks of your hair before settling into a steady repetition of punches to the balls.

In the name of balance, the media will helpfully point out that both sides are bad and essentially the same.
 
2013-11-18 11:29:08 AM  

MFK: In the name of balance, the media will helpfully point out that both sides are bad and essentially the same.


If the political media reported on sports, every game would end in a tie.
 
2013-11-18 11:33:47 AM  

DarnoKonrad: ikanreed: Uh, NPR? They tend to bring on an academic expert regarding whatever subject they're discussing, then a shill from Cato or Brookings for "balance".


and for a straight up analysis with no agenda what so ever the editor of the WSJ.


It sickens me that they've had to sink to this level in order to not appear biased. We need to ditch this mode of thinking where every issue has two opposite yet equally valid viewpoints. It's just not true.

"Here in the studio to talk to us about the process of speciation and it's broader implications on evolutionary theory is Dr. Hoofenbratz, head of the college of biological sciences at Cambridge and winner of the Nobel Prize in chemistry for his study of mitochondrial differentiation in the Banana Slug. And also joining us via satellite from Bumblescotch, Mississippi is the reverend Clevon Joe-Bob Butch Jr., pastor of the First Evangelical Church of  RepublicanJesus, who believes the world was created by a sky wizard in six days, six thousand years ago. Welcome gentlemen."
 
2013-11-18 11:33:50 AM  
Wah, the right wing does some of their political work pretty darned well and it JUST ISNT FAIR!!! *stompyfoot*

Jeepers; quit whining and fight fire with fire.
 
2013-11-18 11:33:50 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: MFK: In the name of balance, the media will helpfully point out that both sides are bad and essentially the same.

If the political media reported on sports, every game would end in a tie.


Please, there's exactly zero difference in presentation format between ESPN and fox news.  Just marginally different content.
 
2013-11-18 11:36:40 AM  

GregInIndy: Wah, the right wing does some of their political work pretty darned well and it JUST ISNT FAIR!!! *stompyfoot*

Jeepers; quit whining and fight fire with fire.


Oh, yes, more lying, attacking people for no reason, and pointless divisive issues are exactly what this country needs.  The demise of these tactics is what is needed.
 
2013-11-18 11:40:01 AM  

GregInIndy: Wah, the right wing does some of their political work pretty darned well and it JUST ISNT FAIR!!! *stompyfoot*

Jeepers; quit whining and fight fire with fire.


Well, blatantly biased lies and half-truths aren't exactly a recipe for long-term success. The Republican right is throwing everything they've got right now into short-term tactics at the expense of their own credibility. Based on GOP approval numbers and demographic trends, the Democrats would be smarter not to emulate them and instead continue building policy positions around actual scientific consensus.
 
2013-11-18 11:40:43 AM  

MFK: inglixthemad: ikanreed: Really speed-read my way through that, but if you think the Brookings institute and the Cato Institute don't have the same orders coming from top-down about what the objectives are, you haven't been paying attention.

"Think Tank" should be dropped as a word used by journalists.  "Professional Liar Organization" would be a more apt term.  Example

We have with us today [whoever], a professor emeritus from [local college] and from Professional Liar Organization the Brookings institution, [whomever 2] to provide the rebuttal.

Absolutely. I see the words 'think tank' attached to any group and I immediately think of the creationist vs scientist argument.

Think tanks, and in particular 'conservative' think tanks, find facts to fit their opinions (or outright make them up if they're less honest) while the lib think tanks will often try to modify their opinions.

That isn't to say that never happens on the liberal side. I will say thy conservatives are guilty of the shenanigans far more often than liberals.

I've always found that the BSAB argument to flesh out like this in reality:

Democrat will slap you in the face - that's bad.
Republican will slap you in the face, stab you a half dozen times, shatter your kneecaps with a claw hammer, and tear out chunks of your hair before settling into a steady repetition of punches to the balls.

In the name of balance, the media will helpfully point out that both sides are bad and essentially the same.


I can agree with this description.
 
2013-11-18 11:40:49 AM  
To extend the metaphor further, how do we intepret "the furniture will suck anyways, but when I'm drunk and bored I'll go wandering through on tour and eventually gorge to the point of sickness on the meatballs and contemplate purchasing a plush giant isopod"?
 
2013-11-18 11:42:14 AM  

xalres: DarnoKonrad: ikanreed: Uh, NPR? They tend to bring on an academic expert regarding whatever subject they're discussing, then a shill from Cato or Brookings for "balance".


and for a straight up analysis with no agenda what so ever the editor of the WSJ.

It sickens me that they've had to sink to this level in order to not appear biased. We need to ditch this mode of thinking where every issue has two opposite yet equally valid viewpoints. It's just not true.

"Here in the studio to talk to us about the process of speciation and it's broader implications on evolutionary theory is Dr. Hoofenbratz, head of the college of biological sciences at Cambridge and winner of the Nobel Prize in chemistry for his study of mitochondrial differentiation in the Banana Slug. And also joining us via satellite from Bumblescotch, Mississippi is the reverend Clevon Joe-Bob Butch Jr., pastor of the First Evangelical Church of  RepublicanJesus, who believes the world was created by a sky wizard in six days, six thousand years ago. Welcome gentlemen."


Can't alienate potential viewers. Advertisers don't like that.

So, everyone's opinion is valid.
 
2013-11-18 11:43:25 AM  

xalres: DarnoKonrad: ikanreed: Uh, NPR? They tend to bring on an academic expert regarding whatever subject they're discussing, then a shill from Cato or Brookings for "balance".


and for a straight up analysis with no agenda what so ever the editor of the WSJ.

It sickens me that they've had to sink to this level in order to not appear biased. We need to ditch this mode of thinking where every issue has two opposite yet equally valid viewpoints. It's just not true.



News outlets don't have to do it. They choose to do it because they fear criticism and love ratings.

GregInIndy: Wah, the right wing does some of their political work pretty darned well and it JUST ISNT FAIR!!! *stompyfoot*

Jeepers; quit whining and fight fire with fire.


So all sides should lower themselves to the same idiotic, shiat flinging level because it works on the ignorant masses who fall for biased, gross distortions of reality over actual facts most of the time? Gotcha.
 
2013-11-18 11:43:58 AM  

MFK: inglixthemad: ikanreed: Really speed-read my way through that, but if you think the Brookings institute and the Cato Institute don't have the same orders coming from top-down about what the objectives are, you haven't been paying attention.

"Think Tank" should be dropped as a word used by journalists.  "Professional Liar Organization" would be a more apt term.  Example

We have with us today [whoever], a professor emeritus from [local college] and from Professional Liar Organization the Brookings institution, [whomever 2] to provide the rebuttal.

Absolutely. I see the words 'think tank' attached to any group and I immediately think of the creationist vs scientist argument.

Think tanks, and in particular 'conservative' think tanks, find facts to fit their opinions (or outright make them up if they're less honest) while the lib think tanks will often try to modify their opinions.

That isn't to say that never happens on the liberal side. I will say thy conservatives are guilty of the shenanigans far more often than liberals.

I've always found that the BSAB argument to flesh out like this in reality:

Democrat will slap you in the face - that's bad.
Republican will slap you in the face, stab you a half dozen times, shatter your kneecaps with a claw hammer, and tear out chunks of your hair before settling into a steady repetition of punches to the balls.

In the name of balance, the media will helpfully point out that both sides are bad and essentially the same.


A slap in the face!
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-11-18 11:45:56 AM  
"Center for Media and Democracy, a liberal watchdog group, however, the think tanks are less free actors than a coordinated collection of corporate front groups."

The only people that *don;t* think this are either corporate shills are people living in the bubble.

You gotta love the comments about "liberal hate" too... hate is what the rabid right lives off of and they can't even see that.
 
2013-11-18 11:46:36 AM  

UrukHaiGuyz: The Republican right is throwing everything they've got right now into short-term tactics at the expense of their own credibility.


Their current strategy does not require long-term credibility. They only need full control once to pass their laundry-list of regressive legislation and nominate a bunch of right-wing judges to the federal courts, and that eventual outcome depends more on the Democrats failing than the Republicans succeeding. Of course they're throwing everything they've got into short-term tactics; that's all they need.
 
2013-11-18 11:47:31 AM  
If you use the phrase "fiercely independent," you're a nut-job, and likely a nut-job who is parroting what other people tell you to say.
 
2013-11-18 11:47:46 AM  

patrick767: They choose to do it because they fear criticism and love ratings.


The marketing demographics are clear.  The media sells a narrative those people want buy.  Which includes NPR, which has been getting a little worse every year its funding gets cut.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-11-18 11:48:10 AM  

GregInIndy: Wah, the right wing does some of their political work pretty darned well and it JUST ISNT FAIR!!! *stompyfoot*

Jeepers; quit whining and fight fire with fire.


I have no problem with "political party work," but every discussion we have is laced with dishonesty and with misinformation because of these groups.  We haven't had a debate in this country on ANYTHING for a decade because these groups are out these seeding the minds of the lawmakers as to what "everybody" thinks.
 
MFK
2013-11-18 11:48:47 AM  

sendtodave: MFK: inglixthemad: ikanreed: Really speed-read my way through that, but if you think the Brookings institute and the Cato Institute don't have the same orders coming from top-down about what the objectives are, you haven't been paying attention.

"Think Tank" should be dropped as a word used by journalists.  "Professional Liar Organization" would be a more apt term.  Example

We have with us today [whoever], a professor emeritus from [local college] and from Professional Liar Organization the Brookings institution, [whomever 2] to provide the rebuttal.

Absolutely. I see the words 'think tank' attached to any group and I immediately think of the creationist vs scientist argument.

Think tanks, and in particular 'conservative' think tanks, find facts to fit their opinions (or outright make them up if they're less honest) while the lib think tanks will often try to modify their opinions.

That isn't to say that never happens on the liberal side. I will say thy conservatives are guilty of the shenanigans far more often than liberals.

I've always found that the BSAB argument to flesh out like this in reality:

Democrat will slap you in the face - that's bad.
Republican will slap you in the face, stab you a half dozen times, shatter your kneecaps with a claw hammer, and tear out chunks of your hair before settling into a steady repetition of punches to the balls.

In the name of balance, the media will helpfully point out that both sides are bad and essentially the same.

A slap in the face!


exactly. it's crucial that we focus on that slap since it's the important part of the analogy.
 
2013-11-18 11:50:41 AM  

ikanreed: Dusk-You-n-Me: MFK: In the name of balance, the media will helpfully point out that both sides are bad and essentially the same.

If the political media reported on sports, every game would end in a tie.

Please, there's exactly zero difference in presentation format between ESPN and fox news.  Just marginally different content.


Fox is not ESPN, Fox is like the local radio station I had to listen to in the 80's every Thursday night in the fall they had the Paterno call in show where the hosts would discuss why Penn State was sure to roll over their competitor on Saturday.


/Wasn't Joe it was his brother who was the Paterno
 
2013-11-18 11:51:17 AM  

ikanreed: GregInIndy: Wah, the right wing does some of their political work pretty darned well and it JUST ISNT FAIR!!! *stompyfoot*

Jeepers; quit whining and fight fire with fire.

Oh, yes, more lying, attacking people for no reason, and pointless divisive issues are exactly what this country needs.  The demise of these tactics is what is needed.


As long as you have low info voters there is a need for the type of marketing that reaches those people, lying, attacking people for no reason and divisiveness. The right wing has figured this out, the left wing takes the high road back to their mom's basement.
 
2013-11-18 11:52:26 AM  

qorkfiend: UrukHaiGuyz: The Republican right is throwing everything they've got right now into short-term tactics at the expense of their own credibility.

Their current strategy does not require long-term credibility. They only need full control once to pass their laundry-list of regressive legislation and nominate a bunch of right-wing judges to the federal courts, and that eventual outcome depends more on the Democrats failing than the Republicans succeeding. Of course they're throwing everything they've got into short-term tactics; that's all they need.


That'd be fine tactically if they were consistently winning elections, but that's not the case except in rural/regional legislative bodies and executive positions at the state and local level. They're bleeding moderates every election cycle, and their traditional base is dying off. Seems like they're running out of time.
 
2013-11-18 12:01:46 PM  
"Flat Earth Conservatism" would be a much more accurate phrase to describe what passes for it these days.

Or perhaps "Flat Head Conservatism"...either one works.
 
2013-11-18 12:06:39 PM  

Headso: ikanreed: GregInIndy: Wah, the right wing does some of their political work pretty darned well and it JUST ISNT FAIR!!! *stompyfoot*

Jeepers; quit whining and fight fire with fire.

Oh, yes, more lying, attacking people for no reason, and pointless divisive issues are exactly what this country needs.  The demise of these tactics is what is needed.

As long as you have low info voters there is a need for the type of marketing that reaches those people, lying, attacking people for no reason and divisiveness. The right wing has figured this out, the left wing takes the high road back to their mom's basement.


Eh, I'd lean towards there being more political apathy than "low-information voter" problems.  The problem coincides with a winner-take-all electoral system that promotes a 2 party system, which leaves people to form arbitrary coalitions before elections, which leads to politicians who represent no one in particular, which leads to people with opinions that don't fit those molds staying home.  Which reinforces the 2 party system.
 
2013-11-18 12:08:36 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: qorkfiend: UrukHaiGuyz: The Republican right is throwing everything they've got right now into short-term tactics at the expense of their own credibility.

Their current strategy does not require long-term credibility. They only need full control once to pass their laundry-list of regressive legislation and nominate a bunch of right-wing judges to the federal courts, and that eventual outcome depends more on the Democrats failing than the Republicans succeeding. Of course they're throwing everything they've got into short-term tactics; that's all they need.

That'd be fine tactically if they were consistently winning elections, but that's not the case except in rural/regional legislative bodies and executive positions at the state and local level. They're bleeding moderates every election cycle, and their traditional base is dying off. Seems like they're running out of time.


Well, sure. That's why they're focusing on short-term tactics. The larger point is that they're not looking to succeed, exactly; they're looking for the Democrats to stumble, under the assumption that a Democratic failure would lead by default to a Republican victory, and they're not exactly wrong about that.
 
2013-11-18 12:21:06 PM  

DarnoKonrad: patrick767: They choose to do it because they fear criticism and love ratings.

The marketing demographics are clear.  The media sells a narrative those people want buy.  Which includes NPR, which has been getting a little worse every year its funding gets cut.


Of course, those are demographics that have been shaped by a very successful decades long right wing media campaign. The right has been wildly successful at turning "liberal" into a dirty word and pushing conservative voters further and further to the right as well as dragging the entire Overton window in that direction. They're damn good at propaganda.

The left wing in the US has long been more likely to take a nuanced view of the issues, leading to more moderate stances.
 
2013-11-18 12:29:25 PM  
Great. Now I'm craving Swedish Meatballs.
 
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