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(New York Daily News)   NYC artist goes online to "kickstart" her vagina using fund-raising site Kickstarter for gender reassignment surgery   (nydailynews.com) divider line 148
    More: Spiffy, sex-change operations, funds, performance artist, short-term mission, genders  
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4179 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Nov 2013 at 9:41 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-18 10:46:12 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

It's all cosmetic though, which is weird. Genetically they're the same sex.

But this is also about gender, which is primarily cosmetic: when you meet someone on the street, you don't take a DNA test before you decide whether to say "hello, sir" or "hello, ma'am".

I also don't ask to inspect their genitals before saying "hello sir/ma'am".


Exactly. So why do you care and why insist that they're still the same as they were, considering you have no definitive knowledge of their present or prior status?
 
2013-11-18 10:48:52 AM  

Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

It's all cosmetic though, which is weird. Genetically they're the same sex.

But this is also about gender, which is primarily cosmetic: when you meet someone on the street, you don't take a DNA test before you decide whether to say "hello, sir" or "hello, ma'am".


It will be interesting to see how the FFS works for her.  I've seen before and after pictures and the transformation is amazing.
 
2013-11-18 10:51:08 AM  

dfenstrate: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

Could be a mental illness that is indulged rather than treated, mostly due to fashionable societal trends.
How many doctors could you find to chop off your arm if you decided you really, really felt like you weren't supposed to have arms? None Some.


Look up Body Integrity Identity Disorder. In some cases, such as when the patient is repeatedly intentionally damaging a limb, it may be better to amputate it.

But let's go back to your root premise - it's a mental illness that is "indulged rather than treated". How do you suggest we treat body dysmorphic disorder? And bear in mind that saying "suck it up," as was done for centuries, is not a valid treatment suggestion.
Clearly, there's a disconnect between the body and the mind. We don't know how to change the mind. We do know how to change the body. Isn't changing the body to match the mind therefore a valid treatment?
 
2013-11-18 10:52:30 AM  

dfenstrate: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

Could be a mental illness that is indulged rather than treated, mostly due to fashionable societal trends.
How many doctors could you find to chop off your arm if you decided you really, really felt like you weren't supposed to have arms? None.
On the other hand, if you say you want to get your dick chopped off because you can't accept reality, well, out come the knives!


How many people like that out there asking for their arms to be chopped off?  How many trans people all over the world from every culture?
 
2013-11-18 10:53:38 AM  

Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

It's all cosmetic though, which is weird. Genetically they're the same sex.

But this is also about gender, which is primarily cosmetic: when you meet someone on the street, you don't take a DNA test before you decide whether to say "hello, sir" or "hello, ma'am".

I also don't ask to inspect their genitals before saying "hello sir/ma'am".

Exactly. So why do you care and why insist that they're still the same as they were, considering you have no definitive knowledge of their present or prior status?


I don't care at all.
 
2013-11-18 10:53:47 AM  

Theaetetus: dfenstrate: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

Could be a mental illness that is indulged rather than treated, mostly due to fashionable societal trends.
How many doctors could you find to chop off your arm if you decided you really, really felt like you weren't supposed to have arms? None Some.

Look up Body Integrity Identity Disorder. In some cases, such as when the patient is repeatedly intentionally damaging a limb, it may be better to amputate it.

But let's go back to your root premise - it's a mental illness that is "indulged rather than treated". How do you suggest we treat body dysmorphic disorder? And bear in mind that saying "suck it up," as was done for centuries, is not a valid treatment suggestion.
Clearly, there's a disconnect between the body and the mind. We don't know how to change the mind. We do know how to change the body. Isn't changing the body to match the mind therefore a valid treatment?


I'm going to shut up.  You are more informed and much better at this than me.
 
2013-11-18 11:03:08 AM  

MassAsster: Man, that is one ugly...  what ever it is...


My thoughts, too.

A successful transition is one where people don't suspect that there ever was a transition.  If you are going to live your life as the opposite sex, you need to look the part.  People see your face, not what is in your pants.

I think this person is spending the money on the wrong kind of surgery.
 
2013-11-18 11:05:08 AM  
What's the difference between a kickstarted vagina and a c*nt punt?
 
2013-11-18 11:07:37 AM  

Dinjiin: MassAsster: Man, that is one ugly...  what ever it is...

My thoughts, too.

A successful transition is one where people don't suspect that there ever was a transition.  If you are going to live your life as the opposite sex, you need to look the part.  People see your face, not what is in your pants.

I think this person is spending the money on the wrong kind of surgery.


FTA:  "She will also undergo a facial feminization surgery to "finally be able to live and enjoy my life in a body that makes sense to me."
 
2013-11-18 11:07:49 AM  

mbillips: What's the difference between a kickstarted vagina and a c*nt punt?


What's the difference between a sex-change doctor and a vegetable thief?

One produces snatches; the other snatches produce.
 
2013-11-18 11:08:14 AM  

dfenstrate: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

Could be a mental illness that is indulged rather than treated, mostly due to fashionable societal trends.
How many doctors could you find to chop off your arm if you decided you really, really felt like you weren't supposed to have arms? None.
On the other hand, if you say you want to get your dick chopped off because you can't accept reality, well, out come the knives!


Maybe that guy in the psych ward who thinks he's Napoleon really is Napolean. It's easier to give him a hat than treat him, so fark it.
 
2013-11-18 11:08:43 AM  

Dinjiin: MassAsster: Man, that is one ugly...  what ever it is...

My thoughts, too.

A successful transition is one where people don't suspect that there ever was a transition.  If you are going to live your life as the opposite sex, you need to look the part.  People see your face, not what is in your pants.

I think this person is spending the money on the wrong kind of surgery.


I think these comments highlight the real issue some people have with transgender folk: they're scared of anything that suggests that gender isn't a rigid dichotomy. I'd bet they also make derogatory comments about cisgender women who are a bit butch, or guys who are not.
Digging deeper into that, it's probably projection, born out of anxiety that  they don't meet up to an idealized standard they have in their mind. It's like a weird cousin to anorexia.  But really, it's okay, you two. We're not judging you like that.
 
2013-11-18 11:10:46 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: dfenstrate: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

Could be a mental illness that is indulged rather than treated, mostly due to fashionable societal trends.
How many doctors could you find to chop off your arm if you decided you really, really felt like you weren't supposed to have arms? None.
On the other hand, if you say you want to get your dick chopped off because you can't accept reality, well, out come the knives!

Maybe that guy in the psych ward who thinks he's Napoleon really is Napolean. It's easier to give him a hat than treat him, so fark it.


If someone is suicidal and you can remove those feelings by giving them a hat, wouldn't you be a cruel bastard to insist that no, you shouldn't give them a hat, but should somehow "change" their mind, even though you readily admit that you have no idea how to even begin doing that?
 
2013-11-18 11:13:42 AM  

Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: dfenstrate: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

Could be a mental illness that is indulged rather than treated, mostly due to fashionable societal trends.
How many doctors could you find to chop off your arm if you decided you really, really felt like you weren't supposed to have arms? None.
On the other hand, if you say you want to get your dick chopped off because you can't accept reality, well, out come the knives!

Maybe that guy in the psych ward who thinks he's Napoleon really is Napolean. It's easier to give him a hat than treat him, so fark it.

If someone is suicidal and you can remove those feelings by giving them a hat, wouldn't you be a cruel bastard to insist that no, you shouldn't give them a hat, but should somehow "change" their mind, even though you readily admit that you have no idea how to even begin doing that?


Huh? If chopping off your dick is what it takes for you to be happy, go for it. It rarely seems that simple, but whatever.
 
2013-11-18 11:14:15 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

It's all cosmetic though, which is weird. Genetically they're the same sex.


I wonder if it's possible in the case of a chimera to surgically alter which parent cells represent the gonads.

Although we're probably into the realm of stem cells here.
 
2013-11-18 11:16:52 AM  

Theaetetus: Dinjiin: MassAsster: Man, that is one ugly...  what ever it is...

My thoughts, too.

A successful transition is one where people don't suspect that there ever was a transition.  If you are going to live your life as the opposite sex, you need to look the part.  People see your face, not what is in your pants.

I think this person is spending the money on the wrong kind of surgery.

I think these comments highlight the real issue some people have with transgender folk: they're scared of anything that suggests that gender isn't a rigid dichotomy. I'd bet they also make derogatory comments about cisgender women who are a bit butch, or guys who are not.
Digging deeper into that, it's probably projection, born out of anxiety that  they don't meet up to an idealized standard they have in their mind. It's like a weird cousin to anorexia.  But really, it's okay, you two. We're not judging you like that.


I should change your farkie to "Social Justice Warrior." Keep fighting the good fight you crazy, rape obsessed, diamond you!
 
2013-11-18 11:19:03 AM  
You cannot call him or it a she yet!  da fuq is wrong with you subby?  If it does not yet have a vagina, then it cannot yet be a she.  It is trying to be come a she, so when it has a vagina, it will then be a she because it/she was something else before that time!  I am tired of this PC crap... I don't care what it wants to be called, your something else until the surgery!
 
2013-11-18 11:19:42 AM  

Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.


I wasn't belittling , I was simply making an observation
t3.gstatic.com
 
2013-11-18 11:19:48 AM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: mbillips: What's the difference between a kickstarted vagina and a c*nt punt?

What's the difference between a sex-change doctor and a vegetable thief?

One produces snatches; the other snatches produce.


golfclap.jpg
 
2013-11-18 11:21:06 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: dfenstrate: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

Could be a mental illness that is indulged rather than treated, mostly due to fashionable societal trends.
How many doctors could you find to chop off your arm if you decided you really, really felt like you weren't supposed to have arms? None.
On the other hand, if you say you want to get your dick chopped off because you can't accept reality, well, out come the knives!

Maybe that guy in the psych ward who thinks he's Napoleon really is Napolean. It's easier to give him a hat than treat him, so fark it.

If someone is suicidal and you can remove those feelings by giving them a hat, wouldn't you be a cruel bastard to insist that no, you shouldn't give them a hat, but should somehow "change" their mind, even though you readily admit that you have no idea how to even begin doing that?

Huh? If chopping off your dick is what it takes for you to be happy, go for it. It rarely seems that simple, but whatever.


I'd honestly like to hear your thoughts on why you think that's less simple than changing someone's entire mental identity.
 
2013-11-18 11:21:15 AM  
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:
Huh? If chopping off your dick is what it takes for you to be happy, go for it. It rarely seems that simple, but whatever.

Before undergoing gender reassignment surgery in the US trans people undergo years of therapy and someone can correct me on this but I think have to spend time living as their chosen gender. It's not simple and it's not spur of the moment.
 
2013-11-18 11:23:39 AM  

Voiceofreason01: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:
Huh? If chopping off your dick is what it takes for you to be happy, go for it. It rarely seems that simple, but whatever.

Before undergoing gender reassignment surgery in the US trans people undergo years of therapy and someone can correct me on this but I think have to spend time living as their chosen gender. It's not simple and it's not spur of the moment.


Which is why this person is going to Thailand to have their surgery.  No such requirement there.
 
2013-11-18 11:24:07 AM  

Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: dfenstrate: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

Could be a mental illness that is indulged rather than treated, mostly due to fashionable societal trends.
How many doctors could you find to chop off your arm if you decided you really, really felt like you weren't supposed to have arms? None.
On the other hand, if you say you want to get your dick chopped off because you can't accept reality, well, out come the knives!

Maybe that guy in the psych ward who thinks he's Napoleon really is Napolean. It's easier to give him a hat than treat him, so fark it.

If someone is suicidal and you can remove those feelings by giving them a hat, wouldn't you be a cruel bastard to insist that no, you shouldn't give them a hat, but should somehow "change" their mind, even though you readily admit that you have no idea how to even begin doing that?

Huh? If chopping off your dick is what it takes for you to be happy, go for it. It rarely seems that simple, but whatever.

I'd honestly like to hear your thoughts on why you think that's less simple than changing someone's entire mental identity.


I don't think it's easier. I'm just interested in the language we use and how we approach the subject in terms of semantics and context. The euphemisms we use, the metaphors, etc... It's all very fascinating.
 
2013-11-18 11:24:10 AM  

Theaetetus: Dinjiin: MassAsster: Man, that is one ugly...  what ever it is...

My thoughts, too.

A successful transition is one where people don't suspect that there ever was a transition.  If you are going to live your life as the opposite sex, you need to look the part.  People see your face, not what is in your pants.

I think this person is spending the money on the wrong kind of surgery.

I think these comments highlight the real issue some people have with transgender folk: they're scared of anything that suggests that gender isn't a rigid dichotomy. I'd bet they also make derogatory comments about cisgender women who are a bit butch, or guys who are not.
Digging deeper into that, it's probably projection, born out of anxiety that  they don't meet up to an idealized standard they have in their mind. It's like a weird cousin to anorexia.  But really, it's okay, you two. We're not judging you like that.


I honestly hold no bias against people for what ever their life choice, be it gay, straight, bi, transgender, cross dressing, furry fetish - what ever is your bag is your thing, doesn't effect my life one bit. I was simply making an observation, be it a really blunt one. I am generally really blunt.

i257.photobucket.com
 
2013-11-18 11:25:34 AM  
I do not understand this, not even a little bit, but good for schlem I guess.
 
2013-11-18 11:28:12 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: dfenstrate: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

Could be a mental illness that is indulged rather than treated, mostly due to fashionable societal trends.
How many doctors could you find to chop off your arm if you decided you really, really felt like you weren't supposed to have arms? None.
On the other hand, if you say you want to get your dick chopped off because you can't accept reality, well, out come the knives!

Maybe that guy in the psych ward who thinks he's Napoleon really is Napolean. It's easier to give him a hat than treat him, so fark it.

If someone is suicidal and you can remove those feelings by giving them a hat, wouldn't you be a cruel bastard to insist that no, you shouldn't give them a hat, but should somehow "change" their mind, even though you readily admit that you have no idea how to even begin doing that?

Huh? If chopping off your dick is what it takes for you to be happy, go for it. It rarely seems that simple, but whatever.

I'd honestly like to hear your thoughts on why you think that's less simple than changing someone's entire mental identity.

I don't think it's easier. I'm just interested in the language we use and how we approach the subject in terms of semantics and context. The euphemisms we use, the metaphors, etc... It's all very fascinating.


It's amazing how every single post of yours is backtracking on what you said in the previous post. It's like you've got two separate identities who trade off at the keyboard. Ever considered therapy?
 
2013-11-18 11:28:20 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Maybe that guy in the psych ward who thinks he's Napoleon really is Napolean. It's easier to give him a hat than treat him, so fark it.


This is exactly what is going on with our mental health care system in America right now.  Only we dont really have psych wards any more.  Now we just give Napoleon a sharpie and some cardboard and shove him out onto a street corner for society to deal with.  For the record I really could give two shiats one way or another for anybody wanting to be one thing or another.  I just wish they were polite enough to provide a warning before you end up balls deep in some former man parts that a doctor redecorated.  Too much to ask for though.

And remember fellas, if its got an adams apple....dont put yer peener in it.  Unless yer into that sorta thing.
zeldalily.com
/what? no nudity and no swearing.
 
2013-11-18 11:32:16 AM  

Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: dfenstrate: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

Could be a mental illness that is indulged rather than treated, mostly due to fashionable societal trends.
How many doctors could you find to chop off your arm if you decided you really, really felt like you weren't supposed to have arms? None.
On the other hand, if you say you want to get your dick chopped off because you can't accept reality, well, out come the knives!

Maybe that guy in the psych ward who thinks he's Napoleon really is Napolean. It's easier to give him a hat than treat him, so fark it.

If someone is suicidal and you can remove those feelings by giving them a hat, wouldn't you be a cruel bastard to insist that no, you shouldn't give them a hat, but should somehow "change" their mind, even though you readily admit that you have no idea how to even begin doing that?

Huh? If chopping off your dick is what it takes for you to be happy, go for it. It rarely seems that simple, but whatever.

I'd honestly like to hear your thoughts on why you think that's less simple than changing someone's entire mental identity.

I don't think it's easier. I'm just interested in the language we use and how we approach the subject in terms of semantics and context. The euphemisms we use, the metaphors, etc... It's all very fascinating.

It's amazing how every single post of yours is backtracking on what you said in the previous post. It's like you've got two separate identities who trade off at the keyboard. Ever considered therapy?


Huh? I said the same thing in both posts:

It's easier to give Napoleon guy a hat

It's not easier to change someone's "entire mental identity" (thus it is easier to just give them a dick/vag)

Yeah, I need therapy because you suck at reading comprehension, goofball.
 
2013-11-18 11:34:21 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: dfenstrate: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

Could be a mental illness that is indulged rather than treated, mostly due to fashionable societal trends.
How many doctors could you find to chop off your arm if you decided you really, really felt like you weren't supposed to have arms? None.
On the other hand, if you say you want to get your dick chopped off because you can't accept reality, well, out come the knives!

Maybe that guy in the psych ward who thinks he's Napoleon really is Napolean. It's easier to give him a hat than treat him, so fark it.

If someone is suicidal and you can remove those feelings by giving them a hat, wouldn't you be a cruel bastard to insist that no, you shouldn't give them a hat, but should somehow "change" their mind, even though you readily admit that you have no idea how to even begin doing that?

Huh? If chopping off your dick is what it takes for you to be happy, go for it. It rarely seems that simple, but whatever.

I'd honestly like to hear your thoughts on why you think that's less simple than changing someone's entire mental identity.

I don't think it's easier. I'm just interested in the language we use and how we approach the subject in terms of semantics and context. The euphemisms we use, the metaphors, etc... It's all very fascinating.

It's amazing how every single post of yours is backtracking on what you said in the previous post. It's like you've got two separate identities who trade off at the keyboard. Ever considered therapy?

Huh? I said the same thing in both posts:

It's easier to give Napoleon guy a hat

It's ...


Well, you clearly weren't being sarcastic earlier.
gifrific.com
 
Ant
2013-11-18 11:38:49 AM  

dfenstrate: Could be a mental illness that is indulged rather than treated, mostly due to fashionable societal trends.


Does it really even matter? What is a mental illness anyway? Who is harmed here?
 
2013-11-18 11:40:19 AM  

orclover: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Maybe that guy in the psych ward who thinks he's Napoleon really is Napolean. It's easier to give him a hat than treat him, so fark it.

This is exactly what is going on with our mental health care system in America right now.  Only we dont really have psych wards any more.  Now we just give Napoleon a sharpie and some cardboard and shove him out onto a street corner for society to deal with.  For the record I really could give two shiats one way or another for anybody wanting to be one thing or another.  I just wish they were polite enough to provide a warning before you end up balls deep in some former man parts that a doctor redecorated.  Too much to ask for though.

And remember fellas, if its got an adams apple....dont put yer peener in it.  Unless yer into that sorta thing.
[zeldalily.com image 500x625]
/what? no nudity and no swearing.


If their doc did that good of a job, it probably doesn't matter.  At least not at that point.
 
2013-11-18 11:41:25 AM  
Of for farks sake. Anyone care to crowd-fund my lavish lifestyle of hookers, blow, and solid gold toilet seats?
 
2013-11-18 11:41:47 AM  

Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: dfenstrate: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

Could be a mental illness that is indulged rather than treated, mostly due to fashionable societal trends.
How many doctors could you find to chop off your arm if you decided you really, really felt like you weren't supposed to have arms? None.
On the other hand, if you say you want to get your dick chopped off because you can't accept reality, well, out come the knives!

Maybe that guy in the psych ward who thinks he's Napoleon really is Napolean. It's easier to give him a hat than treat him, so fark it.

If someone is suicidal and you can remove those feelings by giving them a hat, wouldn't you be a cruel bastard to insist that no, you shouldn't give them a hat, but should somehow "change" their mind, even though you readily admit that you have no idea how to even begin doing that?

Huh? If chopping off your dick is what it takes for you to be happy, go for it. It rarely seems that simple, but whatever.

I'd honestly like to hear your thoughts on why you think that's less simple than changing someone's entire mental identity.

I don't think it's easier. I'm just interested in the language we use and how we approach the subject in terms of semantics and context. The euphemisms we use, the metaphors, etc... It's all very fascinating.

It's amazing how every single post of yours is backtracking on what you said in the previous post. It's like you've got two separate identities who trade off at the keyboard. Ever considered therapy?

Huh? I said the same thing in both posts:

It's easier to give Napoleon guy a hat

It's ...

Well, you clearly weren't being sarcastic earlier.


At least you agree that it's a mental illness but that it's easier to mutilate them rather than treat the underlying cause.
 
2013-11-18 11:46:48 AM  

Theaetetus: Look up Body Integrity Identity Disorder. In some cases, such as when the patient is repeatedly intentionally damaging a limb, it may be better to amputate it.

But let's go back to your root premise - it's a mental illness that is "indulged rather than treated". How do you suggest we treat body dysmorphic disorder? And bear in mind that saying "suck it up," as was done for centuries, is not a valid treatment suggestion.
Clearly, there's a disconnect between the body and the mind. We don't know how to change the mind. We do know how to change the body. Isn't changing the body to match the mind therefore a valid treatment?


I'll grant there's a spectrum to everything, certainly. I imagine there's some people with BIID who can be successfully treated without amputation, and can accept for day to day living, that they have arms and it's best to keep them.

I'm curious how many medical professionals are even trying to tell would-be transgendered folks 'look, just keep your pecker and see a therapist. Yeah we can make you some non-functional boobs and something resembling a vagina, but it'll be better if you just accept what you've got."

Perhaps one of you even knows, I'll admit I don't:
How often is a would-be transgendered worked back from the precipice of surgery? Who loves or serves these people enough to say 'let's try a good long stretch of professional mental help, honestly and diligently provided, before we start cutting stuff up."?

I honestly haven't seen anything on treatment rates, or anything to suggest doctors are even trying to help someone through their problem in a surgery-free manner. It seems to be all the rage to celebrate and indulge whatever sex-related abnormality someone has, to the point of never saying "Best not."
 
2013-11-18 11:49:18 AM  

Maul555: it will then be a she because it/she was something else before that time!  I am tired of this PC crap... I don't care what it wants to be called, your something else until the surgery!


You call him/her whatever you want.  The rest of us will be respectful of others and live in a civilized society.  We will also all think you are an asshole.
 
2013-11-18 11:51:32 AM  

semiotix: I'm not totally sure I should like this, but it's just so goddamn thorough.


Xe has had many threads to refine it. I like it too, but as a troll it's too inscrutable to the layperson. So over the rainbow that the everyday reader doesn't even attempt to engage as demonstrated by the lack of 'da fuq?'
 
2013-11-18 11:58:01 AM  

Buttknuckle: Maul555: it will then be a she because it/she was something else before that time!  I am tired of this PC crap... I don't care what it wants to be called, your something else until the surgery!

You call him/her whatever you want.  The rest of us will be respectful of others and live in a civilized society.  We will also all think you are an asshole.


Please refer to me as god from this point forward. It is how I see myself and truly feel. You will respect my wishes right?
 
2013-11-18 12:02:10 PM  

Theaetetus: We do know how to change the body. Isn't changing the body to match the mind therefore a valid treatment?


Very interesting argument. Does this mean that all a pedophile needs is a facelift to become "young" again and avoid prosecution? (*NOTE*- I am in no way equating the two. I am exploring the line of reasoning, whether it is valid, or just rationalization. If a sex-change can legally and ethically change one gender to another, why not an "age-change" to legally and ethically transform from one generation to another?)
 
2013-11-18 12:07:44 PM  
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: At least you agree that it's a mental illness...

Sure, given a sufficiently broad reading of the term "mental illness". As I said above, it's a disorder in which there's a disconnect between the body and mind. Is that a  mental issue or a  physicalissue? Objectively, there's no way to tell, nor is there any logical distinction. It's only when you apply a prejudicial opinion that states that the body is perfect and only the mind can be ill that you can come to a conclusion of the former.

... but that it's easier to mutilate them...

What mutilation? Certainly, the surgeons performing the procedure would be shocked and dismayed to be told they were "ruining" something. And again, doesn't that require a  prejudicial belief that the body was perfect before the surgery such that any modification "ruins" it?

... rather than treat the underlying cause.

 As noted above, it's logically indeterminable whether the "underlying" cause is that the body is incorrect or that the mind is incorrect, because the disorder is defined solely by the incorrect relationship between the two. It's only when you have a  prejudicial belief that the body must be correct that you can claim that not treating the mind is not treating the "underlying" cause.

Essentially, your entire position is based on prejudice, not logic or science.
 
2013-11-18 12:09:10 PM  

demonfaerie: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Buttknuckle: Good for her.  For those of you who can't put it together and continue to belittle trans people, just think about it.  You feel like the opposite sex SO MUCH that you are willing to have someone cut on your genitals and change them.  It is not a choice, dumbasses!

/not trans and not stupid.

It's all cosmetic though, which is weird. Genetically they're the same sex.

What if the person has both sexes, or has an extra chromosome?


You end up like me. Completely farked up. Perpetually depressed and extremely shy. Also I've spent enough in real medical bills and hospital stays and tests over the past few years to have all the SRS plastic surgeries and any other BS a transgender person could have done a few times over.
 
2013-11-18 12:11:45 PM  

dfenstrate: Theaetetus: Look up Body Integrity Identity Disorder. In some cases, such as when the patient is repeatedly intentionally damaging a limb, it may be better to amputate it.

But let's go back to your root premise - it's a mental illness that is "indulged rather than treated". How do you suggest we treat body dysmorphic disorder? And bear in mind that saying "suck it up," as was done for centuries, is not a valid treatment suggestion.
Clearly, there's a disconnect between the body and the mind. We don't know how to change the mind. We do know how to change the body. Isn't changing the body to match the mind therefore a valid treatment?

I'll grant there's a spectrum to everything, certainly. I imagine there's some people with BIID who can be successfully treated without amputation, and can accept for day to day living, that they have arms and it's best to keep them.

I'm curious how many medical professionals are even trying to tell would-be transgendered folks 'look, just keep your pecker and see a therapist. Yeah we can make you some non-functional boobs and something resembling a vagina, but it'll be better if you just accept what you've got."


That would be all of them, for hundreds of years. The first surgery was not performed until 1930.

Perhaps one of you even knows, I'll admit I don't:
How often is a would-be transgendered worked back from the precipice of surgery? Who loves or serves these people enough to say 'let's try a good long stretch of professional mental help, honestly and diligently provided, before we start cutting stuff up."?


First, as noted above, the surgery typically requires a period of  years of therapy first. Second, isn't it a bit presumptive of you to suggest that these patients aren't being loved or served enough by their medical professionals, particularly when you admit that you haven't seen anything on treatment rates?

I honestly haven't seen anything on treatment rates, or anything to suggest doctors are even trying to help someone through their problem in a surgery-free manner. It seems to be all the rage to celebrate and indulge whatever sex-related abnormality someone has, to the point of never saying "Best not."

At least you admit that your entire argument is based on ignorance. Unfortunately, as with Dow Jones, it's also based on prejudice. Amazing how those so often go hand in hand.
 
2013-11-18 12:19:28 PM  

Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: At least you agree that it's a mental illness...

Sure, given a sufficiently broad reading of the term "mental illness". As I said above, it's a disorder in which there's a disconnect between the body and mind. Is that a  mental issue or a  physicalissue? Objectively, there's no way to tell, nor is there any logical distinction. It's only when you apply a prejudicial opinion that states that the body is perfect and only the mind can be ill that you can come to a conclusion of the former.

... but that it's easier to mutilate them...

What mutilation? Certainly, the surgeons performing the procedure would be shocked and dismayed to be told they were "ruining" something. And again, doesn't that require a  prejudicial belief that the body was perfect before the surgery such that any modification "ruins" it?

... rather than treat the underlying cause.

 As noted above, it's logically indeterminable whether the "underlying" cause is that the body is incorrect or that the mind is incorrect, because the disorder is defined solely by the incorrect relationship between the two. It's only when you have a  prejudicial belief that the body must be correct that you can claim that not treating the mind is not treating the "underlying" cause.

Essentially, your entire position is based on prejudice, not logic or science.


You're the one who kept asking whether or not it's easier to change their mental state or change their body. You framed it as a mental condition, now you're calling me prejudicial for indulging your premise?

Interesting way to have a discussion...
 
2013-11-18 12:19:38 PM  

ReverendJynxed: Of for farks sake. Anyone care to crowd-fund my lavish lifestyle of hookers, blow, and solid gold toilet seats?


hmmmm, will you sign away the TV rights, and allow us all to watch the train wreck unfold in a new trutv series ?
 
2013-11-18 12:20:58 PM  

Theaetetus: First, as noted above, the surgery typically requires a period of  years of therapy first.

(+ the usual 'you brutal unthinking savage' and 'how dare you come to a fark thread without preparing like it's a presidential debate')


Well, with the BIID folks mentioned earlier (who get limb amputations in extreme cases), doesn't that make Transgender surgery a grim task to be done only when absolutely necessary, rather than something to encouraged and celebrated?
 
2013-11-18 12:21:02 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: At least you agree that it's a mental illness...

Sure, given a sufficiently broad reading of the term "mental illness". As I said above, it's a disorder in which there's a disconnect between the body and mind. Is that a  mental issue or a  physicalissue? Objectively, there's no way to tell, nor is there any logical distinction. It's only when you apply a prejudicial opinion that states that the body is perfect and only the mind can be ill that you can come to a conclusion of the former.

... but that it's easier to mutilate them...

What mutilation? Certainly, the surgeons performing the procedure would be shocked and dismayed to be told they were "ruining" something. And again, doesn't that require a  prejudicial belief that the body was perfect before the surgery such that any modification "ruins" it?

... rather than treat the underlying cause.

 As noted above, it's logically indeterminable whether the "underlying" cause is that the body is incorrect or that the mind is incorrect, because the disorder is defined solely by the incorrect relationship between the two. It's only when you have a  prejudicial belief that the body must be correct that you can claim that not treating the mind is not treating the "underlying" cause.

Essentially, your entire position is based on prejudice, not logic or science.

You're the one who kept asking whether or not it's easier to change their mental state or change their body. You framed it as a mental condition, now you're calling me prejudicial for indulging your premise?

Interesting way to have a discussion...


Ha! Just saw that you're a lawyer. No wonder you're so illogical yet passive aggressive. Good day, chump.
 
2013-11-18 12:22:16 PM  

ReverendJynxed: Of for farks sake. Anyone care to crowd-fund my lavish lifestyle of hookers, blow, and solid gold toilet seats?


Considering two out of three of your requests are illegal, I don't see how it's even remotely the same.  Otherwise, you're certainly free to put up a request for cash for a gold potty.

I'm amazed at people who work up so much anger at something that they are not even tangentially involved in or affected by and have the choice to avoid completely!
 
2013-11-18 12:25:08 PM  
Theaetetus: [Dfenstrate]Perhaps one of you even knows, I'll admit I don't:
How often is a would-be transgendered worked back from the precipice of surgery? Who loves or serves these people enough to say 'let's try a good long stretch of professional mental help, honestly and diligently provided, before we start cutting stuff up."?


First, as noted above, the surgery typically requires a period of  years of therapy first. Second, isn't it a bit presumptive of you to suggest that these patients aren't being loved or served enough by their medical professionals, particularly when you admit that you haven't seen anything on treatment rates?

Oh, by the way, you didn't answer my question, you only called me a brutal unthinking savage. Do you know, or do you not?

We seem to have a lot of time these days for all sorts of new and unusual conditions that didn't exist when day to day life was much tougher, so saying the first surgery didn't occur until 1930 doesn't mean much.
 
2013-11-18 12:26:27 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Theaetetus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: At least you agree that it's a mental illness...

Sure, given a sufficiently broad reading of the term "mental illness". As I said above, it's a disorder in which there's a disconnect between the body and mind. Is that a  mental issue or a  physicalissue? Objectively, there's no way to tell, nor is there any logical distinction. It's only when you apply a prejudicial opinion that states that the body is perfect and only the mind can be ill that you can come to a conclusion of the former.

... but that it's easier to mutilate them...

What mutilation? Certainly, the surgeons performing the procedure would be shocked and dismayed to be told they were "ruining" something. And again, doesn't that require a  prejudicial belief that the body was perfect before the surgery such that any modification "ruins" it?

... rather than treat the underlying cause.

 As noted above, it's logically indeterminable whether the "underlying" cause is that the body is incorrect or that the mind is incorrect, because the disorder is defined solely by the incorrect relationship between the two. It's only when you have a  prejudicial belief that the body must be correct that you can claim that not treating the mind is not treating the "underlying" cause.

Essentially, your entire position is based on prejudice, not logic or science.

You're the one who kept asking whether or not it's easier to change their mental state or change their body. You framed it as a mental condition, now you're calling me prejudicial for indulging your premise?


Nope. You're referring to someone else. My entire post above explicitly disputes your claim here, so it's odd that you keep sticking to it. Do you think anyone will be fooled?
 
2013-11-18 12:28:17 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Just saw that you're a lawyer. No wonder you're so illogical yet passive aggressive. Good day, chump.

I'm

passive aggressive, but you're the one name calling and running away because of my profession?
sandrarose.com
 
2013-11-18 12:30:52 PM  

Theaetetus: I'm passive aggressive, but you're the one name calling and running away because of my profession?


If you could successfully defend someone by talking in circles without ever touching upon a concrete fact, wouldn't you do so, in open court?

I mean, I asked you for a fact, and you called me a brutal unthinking savage.
 
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