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(Washington Post)   Secret Service agent who left a bullet in a woman's hotel room did it because he didn't want to accidentally shoot his load   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, Secret Service, espionages, Ignacio Zamora Jr., special agents, gun safes, hotel management, firing mechanisms, semiautomatic pistols  
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4500 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Nov 2013 at 9:17 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



36 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-11-18 09:18:57 AM  
At least the Secret Service is worried about negligent discharge.

Hopefully he removed the magazine before ejecting the loaded round.  :D
 
2013-11-18 09:24:26 AM  
Well heck, I think I'd prefer this guy to some jagoff who decided to get some strange without unloading his gun. Sheesh.
 
2013-11-18 09:26:32 AM  
Lone Hump Ranger wanted for questioning.
 
2013-11-18 09:27:52 AM  
These guys are such pros.
*rolls eyes*
 
2013-11-18 09:31:03 AM  
Pretty understandable, though a bit careless for what I would expect from such a seemingly elite service. Most people who are trained to carry firearms do so in a "+1" manner. Meaning the magazine is capable of carrying 17 rounds, plus one in the chamber. When totally unloading the weapon, that extra round that was carried in the chamber has nowhere to go since the magazine was already topped off to full. I believe the change holder in my Jeep has a round of 9mm still there from a time I totally unloaded my M&P and just never picked back up.

It happens. Though again, I would have thought Secret Service guys would be extra vigilant about things. But still it's not a huge deal.
 
2013-11-18 09:33:16 AM  
TIL that the Secret Service is full of a bunch of sex addicted booze hounds, and all you'd need to do to get at the President is roll up with a couple of big breasted females ready to show them the time of their lives.
 
2013-11-18 09:33:31 AM  

Aidan: Well heck, I think I'd prefer this guy to some jagoff who decided to get some strange without unloading his gun. Sheesh.


Yeah, really. I'm having a hard time finding anything wrong with anything this guy did. We can't expect these guys to be on the clock 24/7. As long as he isn't cheating on a wife, it's his business if he wants to see someone in a hotel. Clearing the ammo was a lot smarter than leaving a loaded gun on a table. You never know who might be the next Anna Chapman.
 
2013-11-18 09:33:32 AM  
Was this in some way non-obvious?
 
2013-11-18 09:40:39 AM  
Adian:Well heck, I think I'd prefer this guy to some jagoff who decided to get some strange without unloading his gun. Sheesh.

Tommy Moo: Yeah, really. I'm having a hard time finding anything wrong with anything this guy did. We can't expect these guys to be on the clock 24/7. As long as he isn't cheating on a wife, it's his business if he wants to see someone in a hotel. Clearing the ammo was a lot smarter than leaving a loaded gun on a table. You never know who might be the next Anna Chapman.


This.  I realize this job is very important, etc.  But really, this should have been a non-story.
 
2013-11-18 09:40:47 AM  
I hope he put a copper jacket on that little sabot.
 
2013-11-18 09:40:49 AM  

taurusowner: Pretty understandable, though a bit careless for what I would expect from such a seemingly elite service. Most people who are trained to carry firearms do so in a "+1" manner. Meaning the magazine is capable of carrying 17 rounds, plus one in the chamber. When totally unloading the weapon, that extra round that was carried in the chamber has nowhere to go since the magazine was already topped off to full. I believe the change holder in my Jeep has a round of 9mm still there from a time I totally unloaded my M&P and just never picked back up.

It happens. Though again, I would have thought Secret Service guys would be extra vigilant about things. But still it's not a huge deal.


Pretty knowledgeable for a Ford owner.
 
2013-11-18 09:50:15 AM  
Handguns without safety devices. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen
 
2013-11-18 10:00:10 AM  

dryknife: Handguns without safety devices. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen


The Sig P229 is without a grip or slide safety.  It does include safety devices, such as a decocker and modern drop-safe measures.
 
2013-11-18 10:01:11 AM  

taurusowner: It happens. Though again, I would have thought Secret Service guys would be extra vigilant about things. But still it's not a huge deal.


Leaving the round isn't necessarily that big a deal, but what about trying to break into the room to recover it?
 
2013-11-18 10:01:28 AM  

Tommy Moo: Aidan: Well heck, I think I'd prefer this guy to some jagoff who decided to get some strange without unloading his gun. Sheesh.

Yeah, really. I'm having a hard time finding anything wrong with anything this guy did. We can't expect these guys to be on the clock 24/7. As long as he isn't cheating on a wife, it's his business if he wants to see someone in a hotel. Clearing the ammo was a lot smarter than leaving a loaded gun on a table. You never know who might be the next Anna Chapman.


I agree completely, and the underlined part is what I was thinking may have been the problem.  Putting yourself at risk of blackmail isn't a bad idea when you are on the President's protective detail.
 
2013-11-18 10:02:10 AM  

Egoy3k: Tommy Moo: Aidan: Well heck, I think I'd prefer this guy to some jagoff who decided to get some strange without unloading his gun. Sheesh.

Yeah, really. I'm having a hard time finding anything wrong with anything this guy did. We can't expect these guys to be on the clock 24/7. As long as he isn't cheating on a wife, it's his business if he wants to see someone in a hotel. Clearing the ammo was a lot smarter than leaving a loaded gun on a table. You never know who might be the next Anna Chapman.

I agree completely, and the underlined part is what I was thinking may have been the problem.  Putting yourself at risk of blackmail isn't a bad idea when you are on the President's protective detail.


FTFM
 
2013-11-18 10:03:43 AM  

dryknife: Handguns without safety devices. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen


Anyone who can safely handle a gun doesn't need a manual safety device (so the only thing it can do is get in the way when you need to shoot). Anyone who depends on a manual safety to prevent accidents can't safely handle a gun anyway.

Abide by the four rules and you'll never have a problem. Break one rule and you may have a problem, but you won't accidentally kill anyone. Break two or more and the shiat will hit the fan.

1.All guns are always loaded.
2.Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3.Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
4.Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
 
2013-11-18 10:07:08 AM  

FTFA:

"He might have been trying to make the gun safe," this agent said. "To remove the ammo, the first thing you do is remove the source, the magazine. Because if you try to slide the rack first, whatever is in the chamber will pop out but another bullet will be inserted. To prevent that you remove the magazine, so there's no more source. Once you remove the magazine, you slide the rack to get whatever bullet is in the chamber."


So do we assume the reporter is so stupid (s)he can't get a quote right, or that this agent is a farking moron?

// why not both?
 
2013-11-18 10:24:33 AM  
That actually sound correct to me. Best of all is to just leave it in the damn holster unless you're going to either use it or clean it.
 
2013-11-18 10:36:34 AM  

URAPNIS: taurusowner: Pretty understandable, though a bit careless for what I would expect from such a seemingly elite service. Most people who are trained to carry firearms do so in a "+1" manner. Meaning the magazine is capable of carrying 17 rounds, plus one in the chamber. When totally unloading the weapon, that extra round that was carried in the chamber has nowhere to go since the magazine was already topped off to full. I believe the change holder in my Jeep has a round of 9mm still there from a time I totally unloaded my M&P and just never picked back up.

It happens. Though again, I would have thought Secret Service guys would be extra vigilant about things. But still it's not a huge deal.

Pretty knowledgeable for a Ford owner.


Son...
 
2013-11-18 11:34:51 AM  

dryknife: Handguns without safety devices. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen


What, you mean like pulling the trigger? Or do you mean like giving a 16 year old the keys to the Ford?
 
2013-11-18 11:55:14 AM  

stevarooni: At least the Secret Service is worried about negligent discharge.

Hopefully he removed the magazine before ejecting the loaded round.  :D


Discharge was the first word I thought of.

Spent round was the second.

This .. was number three  NSFW?
 
2013-11-18 12:11:16 PM  
ProTip: Secure your weapon BEFORE you enter the hotel room.
 
2013-11-18 12:39:09 PM  

captcaveman: ProTip: Secure your weapon BEFORE you enter the hotel room.


Where do you buy your condoms?

Besides there is usually a safe in a hotel room.
 
2013-11-18 01:01:17 PM  
FTA: There is no safety device on the weapons because they must be ready in case of emergencies, they said.

That's about as stupid as the MSSQL dba who told me "Our production database auto-commits. Welcome to the big time."

Sorry, but that's invalid, you joker. I won't even go into a discussion about conditional transactional commits because the specifics would be wasted on you.
 
2013-11-18 01:55:17 PM  

Pangea: FTA: There is no safety device on the weapons because they must be ready in case of emergencies, they said.

That's about as stupid as the MSSQL dba who told me "Our production database auto-commits. Welcome to the big time."

Sorry, but that's invalid, you joker. I won't even go into a discussion about conditional transactional commits because the specifics would be wasted on you.


Sorry, knowing something about DB management doesn't make you a firearms expert.
 
2013-11-18 02:33:35 PM  

JesseL: Pangea: FTA: There is no safety device on the weapons because they must be ready in case of emergencies, they said.

That's about as stupid as the MSSQL dba who told me "Our production database auto-commits. Welcome to the big time."

Sorry, but that's invalid, you joker. I won't even go into a discussion about conditional transactional commits because the specifics would be wasted on you.

Sorry, knowing something about DB management doesn't make you a firearms expert.


You'll never convince me that a gun being sold to the general public shouldn't have a safety mechanism. Not all people who buy them are infallible firearms experts like yourself. 1500 dead children of "irresponsible gun owners" prove that every year.
 
2013-11-18 03:20:32 PM  

Pangea: JesseL: Pangea: FTA: There is no safety device on the weapons because they must be ready in case of emergencies, they said.

That's about as stupid as the MSSQL dba who told me "Our production database auto-commits. Welcome to the big time."

Sorry, but that's invalid, you joker. I won't even go into a discussion about conditional transactional commits because the specifics would be wasted on you.

Sorry, knowing something about DB management doesn't make you a firearms expert.

You'll never convince me that a gun being sold to the general public shouldn't have a safety mechanism. Not all people who buy them are infallible firearms experts like yourself. 1500 dead children of "irresponsible gun owners" prove that every year.


Every gun sold today has safety devices out the wazoo. Nothing will make them fire unless the trigger is pulled and that's as safe as you can really make a gun.

A manual safety just encourages people to get careless about pulling the trigger when they don't intend to actually fire the gun. At best it results in no improvement in accident rates, at worst it causes accident rates to go up and results in situations where people neglect to unsafe the weapon when they really need it to fire.

There's only so much you can do with mechanical devices from a human engineering standpoint to prevent people from doing stupid things with a deadly weapon before people tend to either bypass the interlocks and safeties because they're such a PITA, or they just buy an alternate product that doesn't have them.

BTW, your statistic is about double the total (not just children) number of accidental gun deaths per year in the US - 851 in 2011.
 
2013-11-18 03:55:45 PM  

Pangea: You'll never convince me that a gun being sold to the general public shouldn't have a safety mechanism.


The only...only effective safety is between the ears of the firearms possessor.  When you grow to rely on a safety mechanism, it will eventually fail you.  When you rely on safe procedures and mindsets, you can have failures on multiple points before anyone gets hurt.
 
2013-11-18 04:11:47 PM  
bullet from the clip....    cartridge from the magazine....

ready.....

FIGHT!!!
 
2013-11-18 04:21:58 PM  

JesseL: BTW, your statistic is about double the total (not just children) number of accidental gun deaths per year in the US - 851 in 2011.


stevarooni: Pangea: You'll never convince me that a gun being sold to the general public shouldn't have a safety mechanism.

The only...only effective safety is between the ears of the firearms possessor.  When you grow to rely on a safety mechanism, it will eventually fail you.  When you rely on safe procedures and mindsets, you can have failures on multiple points before anyone gets hurt.


I'm not actually committed to my position, so I'll concede.

I feel bad for people whose kids are dead because they were playing with a loaded gun they found unsecured, but I also feel like they blew it and their kids are paying the price for them being irresponsible.

Our government can never regulate things enough to protect people from their own stupidity. My lever action 30-30 Winchester doesn't have a safety, but it also doesn't have a bullet chambered and ready to shoot unless I'm shooting it...so I guess I was inadvertently trolling the minute I lumped all firearms together with the word "gun."
 
2013-11-18 04:42:22 PM  
Here are first images of the new agents assigned to the Protective Detail:
www.aceshowbiz.com
 
2013-11-18 04:49:49 PM  

Pangea: I feel bad for people whose kids are dead because they were playing with a loaded gun they found unsecured, but I also feel like they blew it and their kids are paying the price for them being irresponsible.


That's what it comes down to, yes.  You can't legislate away 5 gallon buckets (a major killer in the toddler age group, I think).  Parents are responsible for their kids' safety 24/7.  That means keeping them safe from dangerous things (gasoline, poisonous chemicals, firearms, Jarts, etc.) and also teaching them very early and frequently to avoid dangerous things...and slowly how to deal with dangerous things safely.  A gun safe and/or gun locks are a must for parents who own firearms.  A safety is just one more doodad for kids to learn to bypass with a quickness.  "Should he be playing with?"  "Don't worry so much, the safety's on."  *CLICK*
 
2013-11-18 05:22:18 PM  
A single bullet laying around is a crisis? Of course, the typical talking head on the news shows probably thinks that pointing a bullet at someone automatically kills them. If they ever come to my house, true panic will set in. Weapons are secure, but ammo is out in the open.
 
2013-11-18 09:42:28 PM  

Pangea: FTA: There is no safety device on the weapons because they must be ready in case of emergencies, they said.

That's about as stupid as the MSSQL dba who told me "Our production database auto-commits. Welcome to the big time."

Sorry, but that's invalid, you joker. I won't even go into a discussion about conditional transactional commits because the specifics would be wasted on you.


What we really need are safety devices on hammers.
 
2013-11-19 05:14:47 AM  

URAPNIS: taurusowner: Pretty understandable, though a bit careless for what I would expect from such a seemingly elite service. Most people who are trained to carry firearms do so in a "+1" manner. Meaning the magazine is capable of carrying 17 rounds, plus one in the chamber. When totally unloading the weapon, that extra round that was carried in the chamber has nowhere to go since the magazine was already topped off to full. I believe the change holder in my Jeep has a round of 9mm still there from a time I totally unloaded my M&P and just never picked back up.

It happens. Though again, I would have thought Secret Service guys would be extra vigilant about things. But still it's not a huge deal.

Pretty knowledgeable for a Ford owner.


Lol I really should get a new screen name. I haven't owned a Taurus firearm in a few years. Sold them all and switched over to Smith and Wesson.
 
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