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(American Thinker)   Switzerland may limit executive pay to 12 times the lowest paid worker - for perspective, that would mean that the CEO of Wal*Mart wouldn't make 6-figures   (americanthinker.com) divider line 115
    More: Cool, CEO, executive pay, Switzerland, youth wing, transfer payments  
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2462 clicks; posted to Business » on 17 Nov 2013 at 6:11 PM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-17 03:52:02 PM
Wow.
 
2013-11-17 03:56:30 PM
Good.

CEOs aren't worth much. They steer the ship, okay. Without the lower teir workers, there is no ship to steer.

Personally, I'd go for 10 times because easy math, but that's meaningless in the age of computers.
 
2013-11-17 03:58:28 PM
I'm guessing even the lowest-paid worker in Switzerland makes much more than the average U.S Wal-Mart, however.
 
2013-11-17 03:59:53 PM
Average Wal-Mart  employee, I meant to say.
 
2013-11-17 04:02:58 PM

Cyberluddite: I'm guessing even the lowest-paid worker in Switzerland makes much more than the average U.S Wal-Mart, however.


A quick search finds that, no, they don't have a great minimum wage. I was all ready to agree with you and was quite surprised.
 
2013-11-17 04:05:35 PM
Start with 1 : 100*. We can negotiate further reductions later.

* to include stock options, pension contributions, benefits etc
 
2013-11-17 04:11:46 PM
There's no chance this will pass, subs.  If it did, every corporate HQ in Switzerland would move out.
 
2013-11-17 04:15:16 PM

vygramul: Cyberluddite: I'm guessing even the lowest-paid worker in Switzerland makes much more than the average U.S Wal-Mart, however.

A quick search finds that, no, they don't have a great minimum wage. I was all ready to agree with you and was quite surprised.


I wouldn't be surprised if that amount is limited to  noncitizenworkers, of which the Swiss have plenty, and whom the Swissies pretty much treat like dogshiat.  Swiss citizens seem to make decent money (though of course the cost of living there s very high).
 
2013-11-17 04:25:56 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: There's no chance this will pass, subs.  If it did, every corporate HQ in Switzerland would move out.


Well, most. I wonder if this includes sole proprietorships and how they handle things like benefits and stocks and so on.
 
2013-11-17 04:31:51 PM
A referendum like that would pass here, but we don't like referendums much in this country.They're just a little too democratic.
 
2013-11-17 04:32:39 PM

doyner: A referendum like that would pass here, but we don't like referendums much in this country.They're just a little too democratic.


Voting is too democratic to begin with.
 
2013-11-17 05:26:01 PM
Our shareholders voted to cut compensation, but the board of directors ignored our votes, as they can with more than 50% between them all. Why even pretend we have a say by sending out the voting sheets?
 
2013-11-17 05:26:39 PM
^ Executive and board of director compensation, I should clarify.
 
rka
2013-11-17 06:21:02 PM
Yeah, right.

The CEO of UBS is Sergio Ermotti. According to this article his salary is $9.3 million USD. That would mean the lowest UBS employee would need to make $775K USD.

Hahaha. Oh, maybe bank CEOs will take a pay cut. *snerk*
 
2013-11-17 06:21:24 PM
I'm not seeing a problem here.
 
2013-11-17 06:23:49 PM

Gig103: Our shareholders voted to cut compensation, but the board of directors ignored our votes, as they can with more than 50% between them all. Why even pretend we have a say by sending out the voting sheets?


It's only an advisory vote anyway.
 
2013-11-17 06:31:59 PM
I think the better path is just to ban pegging CEO pay to a percentile and paying in stock options.
 
2013-11-17 06:33:07 PM
If this referendum ever did pass, companies will either leave or find a way around it.  Do you really think the janitor is going to be paid 1/12th of what the CEO makes?  Of course not.  Instead, the corporation will fire the janitor, and then hire a janitorial services company to subcontract out that work.  The fired janitor can then lose any seniority he had with the corporation and start at the bottom at the subcontracting company, probably ending up with less money to clean the same farking office.  That is just one example of how this referendum could end up having the opposite effect to the salaries of lower-level employees.
 
2013-11-17 06:37:50 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: If it did, every corporate HQ in Switzerland would move out.


Some would stay.
 
2013-11-17 06:38:06 PM
Geesh, with shell game corporations, this is not very much danger to the 1% of the 1%.

Corp A owns 99% of the preferred stock of Corp B.

The CEO of Corp B who is paid the 12x pittance salary.  Probably for brownie points for later use when he's transferred to Corp A.

Corp A on the other hand, the lowest paid worker is a analyst with a 7 figure salary.  CEO A doesn't mind getting 12x that.  They all probably get perks in the form of stock options that magically multiply in worh after a few years.  Like the stock was deposited in Mitt Romney's currently worth multimillions IRA account.
 
2013-11-17 06:41:14 PM

GoldDude: If this referendum ever did pass, companies will either leave or find a way around it.  Do you really think the janitor is going to be paid 1/12th of what the CEO makes?  Of course not.  Instead, the corporation will fire the janitor, and then hire a janitorial services company to subcontract out that work.  The fired janitor can then lose any seniority he had with the corporation and start at the bottom at the subcontracting company, probably ending up with less money to clean the same farking office.  That is just one example of how this referendum could end up having the opposite effect to the salaries of lower-level employees.


This isn't America we're talking about.
 
2013-11-17 06:53:02 PM
That article has enough straw men in it to heat your house for the Winter.
 
2013-11-17 06:55:44 PM
This is why Switzerland is a depopulated blasted hellscape who's only inhabitants are the twisted formerly human cannibal zombies who feed upon the few living souls who spend their short miserable lives in anguish and quasi-starvation in nomadic desperation moving from one formerly inhabited place to another only to loot whatever unpicked tidbits of the 'before times' they can find.  They tell legends of the dark day when companies were forced to pay their employees a living wage and the fat capitalist rentier leeches were forced to actually do something productive to earn their keep dooming their nation to the bleak fate they lived out each and every day.
 
2013-11-17 06:56:42 PM
12x isn't even that necessary. 100x as a starting point would still put some sanity on the whole thing.

The article, suggesting that this is about zero sum economics, is pathetic.  This isn't about zero sum at all.  It's about more wealth creating more wealth (much more easy)  for very select few -- trying to put a limit on that so that as society moves forward, we all kind of move together in a reasonable band, is a worthwhile idea. I suspect though, it is meaningless unless adopted widely.

Capitalism is showing its age.
 
2013-11-17 07:08:32 PM

vygramul: Cyberluddite: I'm guessing even the lowest-paid worker in Switzerland makes much more than the average U.S Wal-Mart, however.

A quick search finds that, no, they don't have a great minimum wage. I was all ready to agree with you and was quite surprised.


WTF...the headline says their minimum pay is $15,457 per year, while the body of the article says the minimum pay for unskilled workers is 2,200 Swiss Francs, presumably per month. That's almost $29,000 per year. What am I missing?
 
2013-11-17 07:14:56 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: There's no chance this will pass, subs.  If it did, every corporate HQ in Switzerland would move out.


I hope it passes and that happens.  Let the moochers and looters see what will happen if the producers really do go Galt.
 
2013-11-17 07:22:31 PM

Smeggy Smurf: Benevolent Misanthrope: There's no chance this will pass, subs.  If it did, every corporate HQ in Switzerland would move out.

I hope it passes and that happens.  Let the moochers and looters see what will happen if the producers really do go Galt.


I think most of us know what will happen, somebody from the moocher and looter class will see the opportunity in the newly created meritocracy and run the corporation/business successfully and in a slightly more egalitarian manner.  The producers will gradually starve and perhaps actually work for once in their lives.  Never underestimate the value of the working class, or their competence.  Remember, if their daddy left them with millions of dollars they would have ended up on top too.
 
2013-11-17 07:23:23 PM
*clicks link*

"The green eyed monster, envy, is inflaming people all around the world"

and I'm done.....

Fark is really going to shiat.
 
2013-11-17 07:25:02 PM

Smeggy Smurf: Benevolent Misanthrope: There's no chance this will pass, subs.  If it did, every corporate HQ in Switzerland would move out.

I hope it passes and that happens.  Let the moochers and looters see what will happen if the producers really do go Galt.


assets0.ordienetworks.com
 
2013-11-17 07:26:19 PM

Smeggy Smurf: Benevolent Misanthrope: There's no chance this will pass, subs.  If it did, every corporate HQ in Switzerland would move out.

I hope it passes and that happens.  Let the moochers and looters see what will happen if the producers really do go Galt.



A spectre is haunting Europe
 
2013-11-17 07:27:12 PM
Wal-Mart has salaried employees making less than $8,333.33 a year?
 
2013-11-17 07:35:51 PM

Eric_Stratton_rush_chairman: Wal-Mart has salaried employees making less than $8,333.33 a year?


Yes they do actually but nice try.
 
2013-11-17 07:38:00 PM

ScaryBottles: Eric_Stratton_rush_chairman: Wal-Mart has salaried employees making less than $8,333.33 a year?

Yes they do actually but nice try.


Sorry minor correction, but salaried or unsalaried is irrelevant.
 
2013-11-17 07:40:57 PM
Corporate America is too good at hiding taxable income in CEO packages to go for an equitable arrangement like that. They dont even want you to KNOW what execs make in this country.

But remember its those unreasonable Union thugs that are the problem in 'Merica.
 
2013-11-17 07:41:33 PM
Clearly, Switzerland will descend into a libulard anarchy.  The new banking center of Europe will be Moldova.  Suck it, libs.
 
2013-11-17 07:45:53 PM
Damned Swiss mercenaries.. someone should put something in a treaty or a constitution or something making them illegal.
 
2013-11-17 07:51:57 PM

Cyberluddite: I'm guessing even the lowest-paid worker in Switzerland makes much more than the average U.S Wal-Mart, however.


Switzerland is the charter high school of Europe -- their rankings are so good because they're very selective about who's allowed in and any troublemakers get expelled promptly.
 
2013-11-17 07:58:33 PM

GoldDude: If this referendum ever did pass, companies will either leave or find a way around it.  Do you really think the janitor is going to be paid 1/12th of what the CEO makes?  Of course not.  Instead, the corporation will fire the janitor, and then hire a janitorial services company to subcontract out that work.  The fired janitor can then lose any seniority he had with the corporation and start at the bottom at the subcontracting company, probably ending up with less money to clean the same farking office.  That is just one example of how this referendum could end up having the opposite effect to the salaries of lower-level employees.


Even 1/100th would be a stretch.
 
2013-11-17 08:22:04 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: There's no chance this will pass, subs.  If it did, every corporate HQ in Switzerland would move out.


Contract out your companies janitorial duties and other low skill jobs to the office leading company and the execs will be fine. It's not as though being based in Switzerland is without other benefits.
 
2013-11-17 08:28:26 PM
I think 12x is not realistic.  I would go for 500x in America.  More specifically the value of a CEO's yearly compensation cannot exceed 200x the average yearly compensation (including the value of employer provided medical insurance) of that company's workforce.  Do that and you will have CEOs suddenly pushing for higher employee wages and preferring full time employees to part timers.

I know 200x sounds excessive (since a no CEO works 200 times as hard as their average worker), but that is far less than the money they are making now (assuming they still allow worker wages to remain stagnant).  The other things is I would not apply this rule to those who founded the company - just whatever clown replaces him/her.  I love the idea of the people who actually BUILD companies from nothing (aka not most CEOs) to get fabulously wealthy.

The net result is not going to be so anti-CEO punitive as it may seem, but rather will result in higher worker wages being pushed by "market forces."  Companies will obviously not move out of the US - we are the largest consumer market in the world.

________________

You might add onto that idea - while we are talking reforming CEO compensation.  Company stock granted to CEOs should have a MANDATORY 10 year maturation period.  In other words, they cannot sell/cash in that stock for 10 years.  Why?  The current popular trend is CEOs constantly pushing short term gains (to acquire higher bonuses) without caring what long term effects their policies have on the company (not to mention the market as a whole) - followed by the golden parachute.

Reducing/attacking labor is a popular tactic to this end(but hardly the only tactic).  Mandatory 10 year maturation of stock compensation will see CEOs care about the LONG TERM growth and health of the companies they manage.  It changes the calculation so that what is good for the company long term is the same thing as what is good for the CEO.  This is the sort of thing you change to make the market... actually function properly.
 
2013-11-17 08:37:13 PM

Target Builder: Benevolent Misanthrope: There's no chance this will pass, subs.  If it did, every corporate HQ in Switzerland would move out.

Contract out your companies janitorial duties and other low skill jobs to the office leading company and the execs will be fine. It's not as though being based in Switzerland is without other benefits.


This.  Plus,
The whole thing is basically an empty gesture.  The guy went a little bit too Tea Party towards the end, but at the end of the day, it will be meaningless as a business's ability to identify and exploit a loophole will always far exceed a bureaucracy's ability to fix them.
Businesses have to adapt quickly on a daily basis--be nimble--to survive.  Political processes are slow by design.
 
2013-11-17 08:44:14 PM

bk3k: You might add onto that idea - while we are talking reforming CEO compensation. Company stock granted to CEOs should have a MANDATORY 10 year maturation period. In other words, they cannot sell/cash in that stock for 10 years. Why? The current popular trend is CEOs constantly pushing short term gains (to acquire higher bonuses) without caring what long term effects their policies have on the company (not to mention the market as a whole) - followed by the golden parachute.

Reducing/attacking labor is a popular tactic to this end(but hardly the only tactic). Mandatory 10 year maturation of stock compensation will see CEOs care about the LONG TERM growth and health of the companies they manage. It changes the calculation so that what is good for the company long term is the same thing as what is good for the CEO. This is the sort of thing you change to make the market... actually function properly.


They would simply request a payout in cash.  Perhaps various schedules to extend it over several years.
People who don't care about the long term health of a company have a lot of other attributes that can be used to identify them.  The key is for the business to identify them and hire those executives, rather than the psychopathic sycophants who end up in many of America's the C-Suites today.
You may be surprised, but the Koch brothers are good examples of what you see in someone who cares about the long-term health and growth of a company.
 
2013-11-17 08:51:27 PM
Idiotic.

What's the point of going to the trouble of having a progressive tax code if you want to do something that cancels out its main selling point?

The trick is to make it worth a company's while to have its executives compensated in a form that's taxable - but that doesn't necessarily mean just cutting their tax rates. Have a lower rate kick in at (arbitrary eight-figure compensation point here), beyond the higher-rate brackets. They don't get the lower rate until they've paid taxes on their other compensation. After they've made another (arbitrary number of millions), resume taxing at the higher rate - then, if they're really into the whole compensation-as-dick-measuring thing, throw in another low-tax bracket beyond that.
 
2013-11-17 08:52:47 PM

Gulper Eel: Idiotic.

What's the point of going to the trouble of having a progressive tax code if you want to do something that cancels out its main selling point?

The trick is to make it worth a company's while to have its executives compensated in a form that's taxable - but that doesn't necessarily mean just cutting their tax rates. Have a lower rate kick in at (arbitrary eight-figure compensation point here), beyond the higher-rate brackets. They don't get the lower rate until they've paid taxes on their other compensation. After they've made another (arbitrary number of millions), resume taxing at the higher rate - then, if they're really into the whole compensation-as-dick-measuring thing, throw in another low-tax bracket beyond that.


The hope is that, included in whatever loopholes there are, there's enough left-over to raise wages.
 
2013-11-17 08:56:12 PM
How do unpaid interns fit into this?
 
2013-11-17 08:59:24 PM
"The green eyed monster, envy, is inflaming people all around the world, even in usually sensible, pro-business, rich Switzerland."
i18.photobucket.com
 
2013-11-17 09:04:57 PM
I always thought Michael Jordan earned too much
 
2013-11-17 09:10:31 PM
I'll believe it when i see it
 
2013-11-17 09:23:30 PM
Well that sounds like an interesting article...hey wait a minute!(notices where link goes)

Nope, not reading that site.
 
2013-11-17 09:38:48 PM
You think Nestlé (based in Switzerland) will let this happen?  Riiiiight.  For argument's sake, this is what I'd see them doing: move all operations out of the country while keeping executives in the country.  The CEO will be limited to 12X pay of the lowest paid executive.

www.convergencealimentaire.info
 
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