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(Times of Israel)   How serious is the Iranian nuke threat? Serious enough to get the Israelis and Saudis into bed together   (timesofisrael.com) divider line 294
    More: Interesting, Saudis, Iranians, Iran, Francois Hollande, Jerusalem, nuclear arms race, President Vladimir Putin, Benjamin Netanyahu  
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6273 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Nov 2013 at 4:40 AM (21 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-17 12:14:28 AM
Israel said to be working with Saudi Arabia on Iran strike plan

Using US-made weaponry. Oh, this will end well.
 
2013-11-17 12:22:48 AM
I *think* I can fap to that.......
 
2013-11-17 12:24:55 AM

NewportBarGuy: Israel said to be working with Saudi Arabia on Iran strike plan

Using US-made weaponry. Oh, this will end well.


What's even funnier is that, if the US (and the West) "come to terms" with Iran and they end up continuing with their nukes (if that's what they're really doing), Israel will break with their staunchest ally in the whole world and end up kicking the everloving shiat out of Iran.  With Saudi Arabia.

That region of the world is 50 kinds of farked up.
 
2013-11-17 12:30:22 AM

xanadian: That region of the world is 50 kinds of farked up.


Yes, I tried to explain that to people in 2003. Obviously, no one was listening.

Glass parking lot would be fine with me.
 
2013-11-17 12:33:19 AM
 
2013-11-17 12:49:39 AM
Yes, it's so serious that none of the major powers that have meddled in the region for over a hundred years have done anything more than stop shipping cheap plastic crap in and out in exchange for oil, and attempt to keep banks from doing business with them but failing because banks don't have laws.

If they get a weapon, it'll need to be plutonium implosion for it to be cost-effective. When you can get a perfectly symmetrical explosive lens, smooth down to the microsecond, into something that fits on the tip of a Ghadr-110, and do it without having to test the bomb, then call me.
 
2013-11-17 12:53:05 AM
That's an image I don't need in my head.
 
2013-11-17 12:58:36 AM

omnibus_necanda_sunt: If they get a weapon, it'll need to be plutonium implosion for it to be cost-effective. When you can get a perfectly symmetrical explosive lens, smooth down to the microsecond, into something that fits on the tip of a Ghadr-110, and do it without having to test the bomb, then call me.


That will never, ever happen. (As you obviously know.)

The best they can do is North Korean quality. I know they want a bomb, but what they also want is a sustainable energy source. With your intelligence, you already know they import most of their refined products. If we give them those reactors, the ones that can't make weapons grade uranium, I think we'd all be square.

They want a robust energy source to sustain their growth. If we give them that, we might just climb out of this whole thing. Would be very nice if Assad fell first, though. Then they've lost their proxy.
 
2013-11-17 01:06:06 AM
I don' t think the most hate-fark shisha porn could do this image justice.
 
2013-11-17 01:08:04 AM

omnibus_necanda_sunt: If they get a weapon, it'll need to be plutonium implosion for it to be cost-effective. When you can get a perfectly symmetrical explosive lens, smooth down to the microsecond, into something that fits on the tip of a Ghadr-110, and do it without having to test the bomb, then call me.


Most people don't realize this, but WWII Japan had an atomic bomb project in the works. When we dropped on Hiroshima, their scientists went out, determined that the bomb was uranium, and figured (based on their own experiences) that that would be our only one given the immense expense of U-235 bombs. When those same scientists saw that the next one was plutonium, they realized we had solved the breeder problem, figured (correctly) that we had at least a dozen more ready to fly, and gave up.

We should have dropped Fat Man first.
 
2013-11-17 01:11:46 AM

impaler: I don' t think the most hate-fark shisha porn could do this image justice.


You mean shiksa?

Also, ...what?
 
2013-11-17 01:19:38 AM
The enemy of my enemy is my friend, right?

Saudi Arabia doesn't have much to be concerned about, though. And really, neither does Israel. If Iran misses and nails the Dome of the Rock or the Kaaba every Muslim on Earth will spend every waking moment hunting down every last member of the Iranian government. It'll solve all of America's problems with terrorism overnight, they won't have any time for us anymore.

Somehow, though, they'd still have time to mess with Israel.
 
2013-11-17 01:36:37 AM
Here's the track to a credible ballistic threat:

A working plutonium breeder reactor (the United States has never managed to create one that was energy efficient enough to run and claim with a straight face that it was for peaceful purposes).

The ability to machine one of the deadliest and densest metals on earth with NASA-grade precision.

Shaped charges of an explosive at least as insensitive as triaminotrinitrobenzene, also machined with micrometer-level precision.

A capacitor bank capable of providing sufficient wattage to vaporize a gold wire as the current passes along it, causing an explosion that initiates the main charge.

Proper distortion of the plutonium core, so that the accidental explosion of one lens simply smashes the assembly apart, rather than cause the core to hit supercriticality.

Onboard electronics hardened to withstand the radiation continually released by the main charge, which is close to criticality by engineering necessity.

Be able to model the inner workings of the device well enough that you don't have to tip your hand by performing an actual test.

And make this whole thing a lotsmaller than this bastard:
www.atomicarchive.com
 
2013-11-17 01:41:02 AM
 
2013-11-17 01:41:33 AM

omnibus_necanda_sunt: Be able to model the inner workings of the device well enough that you don't have to tip your hand by performing an actual test.


Seemed to work out just fine for India and Pakistan.
 
2013-11-17 02:25:02 AM
I could be wrong but I think they've both been on the same side of this issue for a while, realizing an Iran equipped with nuclear weapons would be destabilizing to the region and contrary to both their interests. And I kinda agree, especially after us Yankee warmongers left a huge power vacuum right in the middle of things.
 
2013-11-17 03:15:23 AM

NewportBarGuy: omnibus_necanda_sunt: Be able to model the inner workings of the device well enough that you don't have to tip your hand by performing an actual test.

Seemed to work out just fine for India and Pakistan.


I'm referring to modern times. These days nobody wants the trouble of going nuclear unless they're already on someone's shiatlist.
 
2013-11-17 03:53:38 AM

omnibus_necanda_sunt: impaler: I don' t think the most hate-fark shisha porn could do this image justice.

You mean shiksa?

Also, ...what?


Also what? What does a shiksa have to do with hate porn? Sure, you don't take them home to meet the family, but whatever.
The middle east is getting even more confusing, if that's possible. So we lighten up on the Shia, who haven't done us (relatively speaking) much harm, While our buddies in Israel pal up with the Sunni, who have demonstrably done us harm. The question is why would Israel pal up with the Sunnis?
 
2013-11-17 04:47:28 AM
Iranian nuclear threat.. nah, I'm sure it's still fictional.
 
2013-11-17 04:52:02 AM
I'm much less worried about a nuclear Iran than Israel threatening its neighbors.
 
2013-11-17 04:56:17 AM
You know that not all brown people are Arab or the same flavor of durka, right?

Everyone in the Mideast hate each other in their special way and would team up with whoever that they are not at war with to defeat the other guy.
 
2013-11-17 05:02:05 AM
Just point at a sand dune somewhere and call it Iranian. Let those psychopaths bomb the desert so they get their fix.
 
2013-11-17 05:02:42 AM

super_grass: You know that not all brown people are Arab or the same flavor of durka, right?

Everyone in the Mideast hate each other in their special way and would team up with whoever that they are not at war with to defeat the other guy.


Well, the question of the 12th or 13th Imam is serious business over there. Enough to kill and die for.
 
2013-11-17 05:12:01 AM

NewportBarGuy: xanadian: That region of the world is 50 kinds of farked up.

Yes, I tried to explain that to people in 2003. Obviously, no one was listening.

Glass parking lot would be fine with me.


Why? The main reason that there's so much trouble in that part of the world is our foreign policy; we've done everything we can to prevent any kind of stability in the mid-east. A better plan would be to turn the offices of the CIA and State Dept into glass parking lots. Along with the Pentagon.
 
2013-11-17 05:12:30 AM

omnibus_necanda_sunt: Most people don't realize this, but WWII Japan had an atomic bomb project in the works. When we dropped on Hiroshima, their scientists went out, determined that the bomb was uranium, and figured (based on their own experiences) that that would be our only one given the immense expense of U-235 bombs. When those same scientists saw that the next one was plutonium, they realized we had solved the breeder problem, figured (correctly) that we had at least a dozen more ready to fly, and gave up.


Actually, we didn't have a dozen more ready to go. We made three: One was tested, and two were dropped on cities. We bluffed that we had more ready to go, and the Japanese (and the world) didn't call our bluff, thankfully. But if they had, it would've taken another ten days to get another one ready, and then an average of three per month thereafter. The point of the bombs was to demonstrate that a land invasion was no longer necessary -- the war would be over by the end of the year with minimal loss to American life.
 
2013-11-17 05:13:08 AM

simplicimus: omnibus_necanda_sunt: impaler: I don' t think the most hate-fark shisha porn could do this image justice.

You mean shiksa?

Also, ...what?

Also what? What does a shiksa have to do with hate porn? Sure, you don't take them home to meet the family, but whatever.
The middle east is getting even more confusing, if that's possible. So we lighten up on the Shia, who haven't done us (relatively speaking) much harm, While our buddies in Israel pal up with the Sunni, who have demonstrably done us harm. The question is why would Israel pal up with the Sunnis?


I'm not sure they really would. This just reads like another attempt to cow Iran into compliance on the issue through excessive saber rattling in the media.

Also, I think he was going with "schiesse" porn there.
 
2013-11-17 05:14:03 AM
Nuclear energy and nuclear weapons is 70 year old technology. You can't keep that technology away from people who really want it.
 
2013-11-17 05:17:05 AM
The sad fact is the US spent decades meddling with this region to try to control it, and now it's getting out of control. I know, let's stop war by making war. Great idea.
 
2013-11-17 05:18:03 AM
The Israelis have been killing civilians in Iran using IEDs for the last several years, according to a host of media reports that are far more credible than RT.  They've also invaded neighboring states (ostensibly in self-defense) and engaged in land grabs repeatedly over the past few decades. Along with apartheid era South Africa they developed their own nukes and chemical weapons.

Iran has seen both it's east and west flanks invaded and occupied by the US in the past decade. Israel has quite publicly lobbied the US (perhaps more properly, the Israeli right has lobbied) the US to attack Iran and Syria.

Earlier this year congress caved to the concerns of the only constituency that's more influential than AIPAC, the Saudis, the petroleum industry, and the defense industry, when it listened to popular to dissent and refused to authorize an attack on Syria.

It's a big, fat mess and we need to stay out of it and in fact get out of the region entirely. We do not need to make Saudi and Israeli problems our own, despite the entreaties of the petroleum and defense industry, religious whackos in the States, and the pleadings of the despotic Saudi regime.
 
2013-11-17 05:18:57 AM
I was hearing on NPR the other week that there's inspectors looking at their material almost daily.  So why is this a worry?
 
2013-11-17 05:20:45 AM

simplicimus: super_grass: You know that not all brown people are Arab or the same flavor of durka, right?

Everyone in the Mideast hate each other in their special way and would team up with whoever that they are not at war with to defeat the other guy.

Well, the question of the 12th or 13th Imam is serious business over there. Enough to kill and die for.


But the 8th didn't regenerate into the 9th directly. He became the "War Imam".
 
2013-11-17 05:23:44 AM

DrPainMD: NewportBarGuy: xanadian: That region of the world is 50 kinds of farked up.

Yes, I tried to explain that to people in 2003. Obviously, no one was listening.

Glass parking lot would be fine with me.

Why? The main reason that there's so much trouble in that part of the world is our foreign policy; we've done everything we can to prevent any kind of stability in the mid-east. A better plan would be to turn the offices of the CIA and State Dept into glass parking lots. Along with the Pentagon.


man, if a why not both image was EVER called for...
 
2013-11-17 05:24:30 AM
Any odds on whether or not they will rock the casbah?
 
2013-11-17 05:27:01 AM

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: simplicimus: super_grass: You know that not all brown people are Arab or the same flavor of durka, right?

Everyone in the Mideast hate each other in their special way and would team up with whoever that they are not at war with to defeat the other guy.

Well, the question of the 12th or 13th Imam is serious business over there. Enough to kill and die for.

But the 8th didn't regenerate into the 9th directly. He became the "War Imam".


Yeah, why do you think that was? Do you think there was a brief conflict with some other Imamming project, or was it just dramatic license?
 
2013-11-17 05:27:48 AM

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: simplicimus: super_grass: You know that not all brown people are Arab or the same flavor of durka, right?

Everyone in the Mideast hate each other in their special way and would team up with whoever that they are not at war with to defeat the other guy.

Well, the question of the 12th or 13th Imam is serious business over there. Enough to kill and die for.

But the 8th didn't regenerate into the 9th directly. He became the "War Imam".


Is that like when Tom Baker regenerated into Tom Baker?
 
2013-11-17 05:43:16 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: I'm much less worried about a nuclear Iran than Israel threatening its neighbors.


Israel just wants to be left the fark alone and live in peace. Israel would not do a single thing to anyone else in the region if they would all agree to leave Israel alone. Full stop.
 
2013-11-17 05:44:04 AM

bostonguy: AverageAmericanGuy: I'm much less worried about a nuclear Iran than Israel threatening its neighbors.

Israel just wants to be left the fark alone and live in peace. Israel would not do a single thing to anyone else in the region if they would all agree to leave Israel alone. Full stop.


Nice words, but not believeable.
 
2013-11-17 05:45:59 AM

bostonguy: AverageAmericanGuy: I'm much less worried about a nuclear Iran than Israel threatening its neighbors.

Israel just wants to be left the fark alone and live in peace. Israel would not do a single thing to anyone else in the region if they would all agree to leave Israel alone. Full stop.


ROFL
 
2013-11-17 05:47:54 AM
Why does this ring every single bell on my b/s meter?
 
2013-11-17 05:52:04 AM

Alphax: bostonguy: AverageAmericanGuy: I'm much less worried about a nuclear Iran than Israel threatening its neighbors.

Israel just wants to be left the fark alone and live in peace. Israel would not do a single thing to anyone else in the region if they would all agree to leave Israel alone. Full stop.

Nice words, but not believeable.


Assumption is that Israel in monolithic in attitude. It's not.
 
2013-11-17 05:52:25 AM

Alphax: bostonguy: AverageAmericanGuy: I'm much less worried about a nuclear Iran than Israel threatening its neighbors.

Israel just wants to be left the fark alone and live in peace. Israel would not do a single thing to anyone else in the region if they would all agree to leave Israel alone. Full stop.

Nice words, but not believeable.


Why? Does anyone really think Israel WANTS to, say, attack and invade Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, or any other neighbors? What could Israel possibly gain from such offensive moves? Anything Israel does is either defensive or preemptive -- in other words, it's a REACTION to others' anti-Israel actions.
 
2013-11-17 05:53:40 AM

impaler: I don' t think the most hate-fark shisha porn could do this image justice.


www.averagejoecooking.com
?
 
2013-11-17 05:54:35 AM

bostonguy: Alphax: bostonguy: AverageAmericanGuy: I'm much less worried about a nuclear Iran than Israel threatening its neighbors.

Israel just wants to be left the fark alone and live in peace. Israel would not do a single thing to anyone else in the region if they would all agree to leave Israel alone. Full stop.

Nice words, but not believeable.

Why? Does anyone really think Israel WANTS to, say, attack and invade Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, or any other neighbors? What could Israel possibly gain from such offensive moves? Anything Israel does is either defensive or preemptive -- in other words, it's a REACTION to others' anti-Israel actions.


Preemptive isn't a reaction.
 
2013-11-17 05:54:49 AM

simplicimus: Alphax: bostonguy: AverageAmericanGuy: I'm much less worried about a nuclear Iran than Israel threatening its neighbors.

Israel just wants to be left the fark alone and live in peace. Israel would not do a single thing to anyone else in the region if they would all agree to leave Israel alone. Full stop.

Nice words, but not believeable.

Assumption is that Israel in monolithic in attitude. It's not.


You're correct. But I'm speaking only in terms of official government policy as directed by recent prime ministers. Because of Israel's election and coalition systems, different government ministers reflecting different viewpoints and constituencies may make statements and state opinions with which the PM does not agree, but in the end the PM makes the call and determines the policy.
 
2013-11-17 05:56:11 AM

Alphax: bostonguy: Alphax: bostonguy: AverageAmericanGuy: I'm much less worried about a nuclear Iran than Israel threatening its neighbors.

Israel just wants to be left the fark alone and live in peace. Israel would not do a single thing to anyone else in the region if they would all agree to leave Israel alone. Full stop.

Nice words, but not believeable.

Why? Does anyone really think Israel WANTS to, say, attack and invade Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, or any other neighbors? What could Israel possibly gain from such offensive moves? Anything Israel does is either defensive or preemptive -- in other words, it's a REACTION to others' anti-Israel actions.

Preemptive isn't a reaction.


Yes, it is. If I see you loading your gun to shoot my family and I take you out before you fire, I am acting preemptively in response to what you are about to do.
 
2013-11-17 05:56:38 AM

bostonguy: Alphax: bostonguy: AverageAmericanGuy: I'm much less worried about a nuclear Iran than Israel threatening its neighbors.

Israel just wants to be left the fark alone and live in peace. Israel would not do a single thing to anyone else in the region if they would all agree to leave Israel alone. Full stop.

Nice words, but not believeable.

Why? Does anyone really think Israel WANTS to, say, attack and invade Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, or any other neighbors? What could Israel possibly gain from such offensive moves? Anything Israel does is either defensive or preemptive -- in other words, it's a REACTION to others' anti-Israel actions.


A preemptive attack cannot be reactive to anything.
 
2013-11-17 05:57:29 AM

bostonguy: Alphax: bostonguy: AverageAmericanGuy: I'm much less worried about a nuclear Iran than Israel threatening its neighbors.

Israel just wants to be left the fark alone and live in peace. Israel would not do a single thing to anyone else in the region if they would all agree to leave Israel alone. Full stop.

Nice words, but not believeable.

Why? Does anyone really think Israel WANTS to, say, attack and invade Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, or any other neighbors? What could Israel possibly gain from such offensive moves? Anything Israel does is either defensive or preemptive -- in other words, it's a REACTION to others' anti-Israel actions.


Agree on all points. But the settlements are problematic. And Israeli/Palinistian are going to be a problem until people stop blowing themselves up.
 
2013-11-17 05:58:54 AM

bostonguy: Alphax: bostonguy: Alphax: bostonguy: AverageAmericanGuy: I'm much less worried about a nuclear Iran than Israel threatening its neighbors.

Israel just wants to be left the fark alone and live in peace. Israel would not do a single thing to anyone else in the region if they would all agree to leave Israel alone. Full stop.

Nice words, but not believeable.

Why? Does anyone really think Israel WANTS to, say, attack and invade Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, or any other neighbors? What could Israel possibly gain from such offensive moves? Anything Israel does is either defensive or preemptive -- in other words, it's a REACTION to others' anti-Israel actions.

Preemptive isn't a reaction.

Yes, it is. If I see you loading your gun to shoot my family and I take you out before you fire, I am acting preemptively in response to what you are about to do.


(facepalm)
 
2013-11-17 05:59:28 AM
If Iran wants to have nuclear weapons and be an isolated pariah state like North Korea, let them.

I don't think they want that though.

Iran can have a transparent nuclear energy and research program with inspections and join the international community, or it can continue to be isolated and have sanctions.
 
2013-11-17 05:59:29 AM

simplicimus: bostonguy: Alphax: bostonguy: AverageAmericanGuy: I'm much less worried about a nuclear Iran than Israel threatening its neighbors.

Israel just wants to be left the fark alone and live in peace. Israel would not do a single thing to anyone else in the region if they would all agree to leave Israel alone. Full stop.

Nice words, but not believeable.

Why? Does anyone really think Israel WANTS to, say, attack and invade Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, or any other neighbors? What could Israel possibly gain from such offensive moves? Anything Israel does is either defensive or preemptive -- in other words, it's a REACTION to others' anti-Israel actions.

Agree on all points. But the settlements are problematic. And Israeli/Palinistian are going to be a problem until people stop blowing themselves up.


Correct. That's why I'm referring only to relations with the surrounding countries. The Palestinian issue is a separate mess.
 
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