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(Pacific Standard Magazine)   High school dropouts better hope they have computer skills, otherwise not even McDonald's will hire them   (psmag.com) divider line 68
    More: PSA, computer skills, McDonalds, throw in, Sides of an equation, demographic data  
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5322 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Nov 2013 at 7:50 PM (21 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-16 07:54:43 PM
Being a high school dropout with no computer skills still beats being a state school grad with a degree in liberal arts and $60k of student loan debt.
 
2013-11-16 07:54:53 PM
Of course, this only lasts until the IT labor market is saturated. Then they're still without a job.
 
2013-11-16 07:56:28 PM
Have you seen the cash registers at your average fast food joint? They have pictures of the food, because they're not sure their staff can actually read big words like "burger" or "fries" or "Coke".
 
2013-11-16 08:00:09 PM
Computers, son.
Get into computers.
Computers are the future!
 
2013-11-16 08:02:40 PM

bingethinker: Have you seen the cash registers at your average fast food joint? They have pictures of the food, because they're not sure their staff can actually read big words like "burger" or "fries" or "Coke".


static.caloriecount.about.com

?
 
2013-11-16 08:06:15 PM
Actually, the point of TFA is that only McDonald's will hire you if you have no degree and no computer skills. The author was biatching about how people who are so utterly incompetent they can't even get a GED often get stuck in dead-end jobs.

Well guess what, sweet cheeks? You don't get what you don't earn. If people could reasonably expect to make $50,000 a year with no diploma, in a fulfilling career track, that makes everyone else's advanced education worth less.
 
2013-11-16 08:10:29 PM
The world needs ditch diggers, too.
http://youtu.be/eiRGRvE_Wqg
 
2013-11-16 08:11:51 PM

nickdaisy: Being a high school dropout with no computer skills still beats being a state school grad with a degree in liberal arts and $60k of student loan debt.


Meh... Just marry a doctor.
 
2013-11-16 08:14:15 PM

bingethinker: Have you seen the cash registers at your average fast food joint? They have pictures of the food, because they're not sure their staff can actually read big words like "burger" or "fries" or "Coke".


When I was a kid our Taco Bells actually had pronunciation guides on the menus.
 
2013-11-16 08:17:50 PM

HotWingAgenda: Actually, the point of TFA is that only McDonald's will hire you if you have no degree and no computer skills. The author was biatching about how people who are so utterly incompetent they can't even get a GED often get stuck in dead-end jobs.

Well guess what, sweet cheeks? You don't get what you don't earn. If people could reasonably expect to make $50,000 a year with no diploma, in a fulfilling career track, that makes everyone else's advanced education worth less.


Didn't Ben Franklin start out in Philadelphia with just a shilling in his pocket or something like that?

Granted, he had training in printing and such; but, the point is, you never needed an education or rich parents to succeed at life. If you have drive, ambition and, most of all, don't quit when things look bleak; you'll succeed.
 
2013-11-16 08:18:40 PM

bingethinker: Have you seen the cash registers at your average fast food joint? They have pictures of the food, because they're not sure their staff can actually read big words like "burger" or "fries" or "Coke".


It's the same at the hospital.
 
2013-11-16 08:23:22 PM

Fluid: Of course, this only lasts until the IT labor market is saturated. Then they're still without a job.


It's been heavily saturated since the 90's. And as any tradesman or machine operator can tell you, the idea that you need a university or IT degree to find a job is a myth they perpetuate to fuel an industry. Hell, one guy i know only spent a year doing an IT job after getting a degree, then fell into a nice job driving a forklift in a warehouse for the government, which probably doesn't even require highschool.
 
2013-11-16 08:26:34 PM
My PowerPoint expertise has shown itself to be invaluable as an assistant to the assistant crackwhore. I refer you to my presentation 'Choosing steel wool: A high temperature analysis'.
 
2013-11-16 08:28:19 PM

iheartscotch: HotWingAgenda: Actually, the point of TFA is that only McDonald's will hire you if you have no degree and no computer skills. The author was biatching about how people who are so utterly incompetent they can't even get a GED often get stuck in dead-end jobs.

Well guess what, sweet cheeks? You don't get what you don't earn. If people could reasonably expect to make $50,000 a year with no diploma, in a fulfilling career track, that makes everyone else's advanced education worth less.

Didn't Ben Franklin start out in Philadelphia with just a shilling in his pocket or something like that?

Granted, he had training in printing and such; but, the point is, you never needed an education or rich parents to succeed at life. If you have drive, ambition and, most of all, don't quit when things look bleak; you'll succeed.


Well, he started out with a printing apprenticeship, was supposed to complete a private degree but his parents ran out of tuition money, so he taught himself, and continued training in the skilled profession of printing and typesetting. Along the way he helped foment the American Revolution and invented what became the model for the American public library system, plus a shiatload of other things. He didn't simply abandon all education because it was too much trouble.
 
2013-11-16 08:31:48 PM

nickdaisy: Being a high school dropout with no computer skills still beats being a state school grad with a degree in liberal arts and $60k of student loan debt.


I disagree, only because I've seen job listings for entry level jobs that require a bachelor's degree and it makes no sense. Does an administrative assistant position really need someone with a 4 year degree? Office manager? In this job market the HR departments are posting rediculous requirements for jobs. Take a look at tech openings and see the kind of requirements they're asking for. A person holding a bunch of certs but no experience in computing has a leg up on someone with no certs but a lot of skills.
 
2013-11-16 08:33:23 PM

HotWingAgenda: iheartscotch: HotWingAgenda: Actually, the point of TFA is that only McDonald's will hire you if you have no degree and no computer skills. The author was biatching about how people who are so utterly incompetent they can't even get a GED often get stuck in dead-end jobs.

Well guess what, sweet cheeks? You don't get what you don't earn. If people could reasonably expect to make $50,000 a year with no diploma, in a fulfilling career track, that makes everyone else's advanced education worth less.

Didn't Ben Franklin start out in Philadelphia with just a shilling in his pocket or something like that?

Granted, he had training in printing and such; but, the point is, you never needed an education or rich parents to succeed at life. If you have drive, ambition and, most of all, don't quit when things look bleak; you'll succeed.

Well, he started out with a printing apprenticeship, was supposed to complete a private degree but his parents ran out of tuition money, so he taught himself, and continued training in the skilled profession of printing and typesetting. Along the way he helped foment the American Revolution and invented what became the model for the American public library system, plus a shiatload of other things. He didn't simply abandon all education because it was too much trouble.


Didn't his parents die when he was young? I thought that he apprenticed under his brother; who wanted to send Ben to Clergy school; but could only afford a year or something like that.

I do agree, even when the shiat hit the fan, Ben didn't quit. He was a self-made man. He never let a bad situation get the better of him.

/ the point being; if you don't quit at the first sign of trouble, you may actually get ahead in life
 
2013-11-16 08:33:30 PM
Being in the top 10,000 in Assassin's Creed isn't an IT skill.
 
2013-11-16 08:38:38 PM

bingethinker: Have you seen the cash registers at your average fast food joint? They have pictures of the food, because they're not sure their staff can actually read big words like "burger" or "fries" or "Coke".


Came here to say that.
 
2013-11-16 08:40:55 PM
The thing to take away from TFA is that you need a marketable skill(s) and these days being able to use a computer is a pretty common one for most jobs.

Finishing high school isn't a difficult task if you can follow basic instructions and understand most concepts. Dropping out and not trying to work through even a GED tells most employers that you lack most of the minimum skills to hold down a job. I don't think the solution is trying to push them to college, maybe some kind of program to help them get a GED and then vocational training might be more help.
 
2013-11-16 08:43:44 PM

berylman: My PowerPoint expertise has shown itself to be invaluable as an assistant to the assistant crackwhore. I refer you to my presentation 'Choosing steel wool: A high temperature analysis'.

Chore Boy FTW!

 
2013-11-16 08:48:29 PM

skinink: nickdaisy: Being a high school dropout with no computer skills still beats being a state school grad with a degree in liberal arts and $60k of student loan debt.

I disagree, only because I've seen job listings for entry level jobs that require a bachelor's degree and it makes no sense. Does an administrative assistant position really need someone with a 4 year degree? Office manager? In this job market the HR departments are posting rediculous requirements for jobs. Take a look at tech openings and see the kind of requirements they're asking for. A person holding a bunch of certs but no experience in computing has a leg up on someone with no certs but a lot of skills.


This.

Employers' expectations are ridiculous these days-- especially for engineering and technical jobs. I love the postings at aerospace companies, for example-- looking for someone with 10+ years of working on climate control systems for aircraft. I bet there are less than 100 people in the country that are qualified for that-- if only because anyone technically able to do the job isn't going to spend 10 years doing it.

"Yes, we're looking for someone with 10 years of experience working on problems that require 3 years of experience."

TONS of engineering job postings like this...
 
2013-11-16 08:51:29 PM
between the realityof my job, and the economic leads on this web-site I just don't give a fark any more.

/plus it is a staurday and I'm buzzed to do any coherent thought
 
2013-11-16 08:52:12 PM

Satan's Dumptruck Driver: skinink: nickdaisy: Being a high school dropout with no computer skills still beats being a state school grad with a degree in liberal arts and $60k of student loan debt.

I disagree, only because I've seen job listings for entry level jobs that require a bachelor's degree and it makes no sense. Does an administrative assistant position really need someone with a 4 year degree? Office manager? In this job market the HR departments are posting rediculous requirements for jobs. Take a look at tech openings and see the kind of requirements they're asking for. A person holding a bunch of certs but no experience in computing has a leg up on someone with no certs but a lot of skills.

This.

Employers' expectations are ridiculous these days-- especially for engineering and technical jobs. I love the postings at aerospace companies, for example-- looking for someone with 10+ years of working on climate control systems for aircraft. I bet there are less than 100 people in the country that are qualified for that-- if only because anyone technically able to do the job isn't going to spend 10 years doing it.

"Yes, we're looking for someone with 10 years of experience working on problems that require 3 years of experience."

TONS of engineering job postings like this...


It's worse in the computer world.  They'll demand five years experience for something that has been out for barely a year.
 
2013-11-16 09:01:51 PM
images.sodahead.com 

HotWingAgenda: Well guess what, sweet cheeks? You don't get what you don't earn.

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-11-16 09:07:56 PM
Hod do kids NOT have some computer experience? They all have their goddamn faces stuck in their smartphones and tablets all day. The skills they actually need is how to farking pay attention to what's right in front of them, whether it is a customer or a telephone pole.
 
2013-11-16 09:09:14 PM
usabilityprofessionals.org
 
2013-11-16 09:11:05 PM
If you don't mind sawdust and paint, there are good paying handyman jobs.
 
2013-11-16 09:12:38 PM
I'm job hunting currently and am amazed at some employers requirements for the jobs I am looking for.

I want an office admin type job, had one for several years and was very good at it (then got downsized). I'm looking at ads for entry level jobs (that pay 15k - 20k less than what I was making at my old job, where they were fine with my high school diploma and 2 years experience when I started - I might add) that want a university degree and 10 years experience for a farking low-level administrative assistant or reception job.

What the actual fark? Aside from the fact that you need nowhere near that level of education/experience for a job like that (not to sell myself short, but, come on, a trained monkey could do at least 75% of the required tasks), do they really think people with those qualifications will either apply for or stay at such a job for very long?

The mind boggles.
 
2013-11-16 09:16:57 PM
When I was still interviewing for jobs, I liked the questions from HR people about computer experience.
They're not looking for someone who can work in unix and understands the foundation of network security, they want someone who can write an email without using MS Paint.
 
2013-11-16 09:25:20 PM

Brittabot: I'm job hunting currently and am amazed at some employers requirements for the jobs I am looking for.

I want an office admin type job, had one for several years and was very good at it (then got downsized). I'm looking at ads for entry level jobs (that pay 15k - 20k less than what I was making at my old job, where they were fine with my high school diploma and 2 years experience when I started - I might add) that want a university degree and 10 years experience for a farking low-level administrative assistant or reception job.

What the actual fark? Aside from the fact that you need nowhere near that level of education/experience for a job like that (not to sell myself short, but, come on, a trained monkey could do at least 75% of the required tasks), do they really think people with those qualifications will either apply for or stay at such a job for very long?

The mind boggles.


They will apply, because there are a lot of people out there looking for work. Whether or not they will stay is another matter. Such is the nature of the job market, really.
 
2013-11-16 09:26:35 PM
*How.
Christ.
 
2013-11-16 09:32:23 PM
what kind of retard doesn't know how to use a computer? i mean, really....
 
2013-11-16 09:33:35 PM

Precision Boobery: [images.sodahead.com image 232x273] HotWingAgenda: Well guess what, sweet cheeks? You don't get what you don't earn.[1.bp.blogspot.com image 232x273]


Alright, I'll add an amendment:

* unless you're a One Percenter
 
2013-11-16 09:37:24 PM

iheartscotch: Didn't Ben Franklin start out in Philadelphia with just a shilling in his pocket or something like that?


Yeah, no.
 
2013-11-16 09:44:59 PM

doglover: iheartscotch: Didn't Ben Franklin start out in Philadelphia with just a shilling in his pocket or something like that?

Yeah, no.


But, but, BUT.... ALL of our founding fathers triumphed over adversity!

Also, George Washington was 7 feet tall, with laser-beam eyes and never told a lie!

/ although; Franklin's autobiography supports the statement that, when he first arrived in Philadelphia as a young man, he didn't have much money
 
2013-11-16 09:47:00 PM

OgreMagi: Satan's Dumptruck Driver: skinink: nickdaisy: Being a high school dropout with no computer skills still beats being a state school grad with a degree in liberal arts and $60k of student loan debt.

I disagree, only because I've seen job listings for entry level jobs that require a bachelor's degree and it makes no sense. Does an administrative assistant position really need someone with a 4 year degree? Office manager? In this job market the HR departments are posting rediculous requirements for jobs. Take a look at tech openings and see the kind of requirements they're asking for. A person holding a bunch of certs but no experience in computing has a leg up on someone with no certs but a lot of skills.

This.

Employers' expectations are ridiculous these days-- especially for engineering and technical jobs. I love the postings at aerospace companies, for example-- looking for someone with 10+ years of working on climate control systems for aircraft. I bet there are less than 100 people in the country that are qualified for that-- if only because anyone technically able to do the job isn't going to spend 10 years doing it.

"Yes, we're looking for someone with 10 years of experience working on problems that require 3 years of experience."

TONS of engineering job postings like this...

It's worse in the computer world.  They'll demand five years experience for something that has been out for barely a year.


But you  do understand that like any good negotiation, you shoot high and accept what you can get. If you are reading those postings literally, it's  you that doesn't know anything about getting a good gig, not them

/dont be discouraged. give your resume to everyone no matter what.
//if you aren't being shot down 50% of the time, you're not trying hard enough
 
2013-11-16 09:51:55 PM

OgreMagi: It's worse in the computer world.  They'll demand five years experience for something that has been out for barely a year.


There's a method to the madness there. I ran it past my computer science-degreed brother (who is doing quite well, BTW) to make sure, but I was spot on in my analysis. Companies ask for qualifications like that so they can turn around and say they can't fill them in this country so they can turn around and outsource them to India or China, or bring someone in on a work visa (who of course will work for much less).
 
2013-11-16 09:54:41 PM

Satan's Dumptruck Driver: Employers' expectations are ridiculous these days


That's a sign of lots of competition. They can shoot so high because hundreds or thousands are applying with the same basic qualifications, so other things make people stand out.
 
2013-11-16 10:02:54 PM

iheartscotch: Also, George Washington was 7 feet tall, with laser-beam eyes and never told a lie!


And Thomas Jefferson had a horse's dick!
 
2013-11-16 10:03:23 PM
I agree with this, When I came out of the military I knew the horror of finding a job right off the bat, however I did post I did some college computer classes (hardware, software and IT serverside etc). My first job offer was for $14 an hour as a data entry person which is pretty high in my area (think starting out was $8?). I was really fortunate considering how many do not get decent jobs because frankly even with the military you still have no "expertise" in any field.

I left the company after a few years, I would suggest learning a trade like a plumber or electrician - I did side work after leaving the company and found my calling, I bought a load of rental property.

I work my own hours, I won't get rich but I do make a decent living.
 
2013-11-16 10:23:32 PM

some_beer_drinker: what kind of retard doesn't know how to use a computer? i mean, really....


There are plenty of people out there who "aren't into that technie stuff," and the most they can handle are the apps on their cellphones. People are moving away from PCs, so I expect the "computer skills" gap to widen a bit when it comes to genuine IT stuff.
 
2013-11-16 10:32:57 PM

some_beer_drinker: what kind of retard doesn't know how to use a computer? i mean, really....


You never met my ex. She can't take a decent picture with a fully automated DSLR.
 
2013-11-16 10:43:05 PM

some_beer_drinker: what kind of retard doesn't know how to use a computer? i mean, really....


In the late 90s, I posted a job application for a part time job at a tech support company - they did all the tech support for Microsoft, AOL, some other companies online. If you could turn a PC on and off, a monitor on and off - you had a chance to get hired.
Literally there were dozens of people who never even SEEN a computer before, and they got hired. I was only in the AOL section, but I knew a few staffers who didn't even own computers at home and were doing tech support.

I highly doubt much has chanced since, but I hated that company for one good reason - they moved the jobs to India.
 
2013-11-16 11:06:24 PM

sobriquet by any other name: OgreMagi: Satan's Dumptruck Driver: skinink: nickdaisy: Being a high school dropout with no computer skills still beats being a state school grad with a degree in liberal arts and $60k of student loan debt.

I disagree, only because I've seen job listings for entry level jobs that require a bachelor's degree and it makes no sense. Does an administrative assistant position really need someone with a 4 year degree? Office manager? In this job market the HR departments are posting rediculous requirements for jobs. Take a look at tech openings and see the kind of requirements they're asking for. A person holding a bunch of certs but no experience in computing has a leg up on someone with no certs but a lot of skills.

This.

Employers' expectations are ridiculous these days-- especially for engineering and technical jobs. I love the postings at aerospace companies, for example-- looking for someone with 10+ years of working on climate control systems for aircraft. I bet there are less than 100 people in the country that are qualified for that-- if only because anyone technically able to do the job isn't going to spend 10 years doing it.

"Yes, we're looking for someone with 10 years of experience working on problems that require 3 years of experience."

TONS of engineering job postings like this...

It's worse in the computer world.  They'll demand five years experience for something that has been out for barely a year.

But you  do understand that like any good negotiation, you shoot high and accept what you can get. If you are reading those postings literally, it's  you that doesn't know anything about getting a good gig, not them

/dont be discouraged. give your resume to everyone no matter what.
//if you aren't being shot down 50% of the time, you're not trying hard enough


I've been a system admin at the same company for five years.  Previous employer was Google.  I'm doing fine.
 
2013-11-16 11:09:25 PM

Delay: If you don't mind sawdust and paint, there are good paying handyman jobs.


I'm guessing the people who don't graduate high school aren't going to have parents who can teach them these skills (which often require owning a car, lawn, or home).
 
2013-11-16 11:09:54 PM

Vector R: OgreMagi: It's worse in the computer world.  They'll demand five years experience for something that has been out for barely a year.

There's a method to the madness there. I ran it past my computer science-degreed brother (who is doing quite well, BTW) to make sure, but I was spot on in my analysis. Companies ask for qualifications like that so they can turn around and say they can't fill them in this country so they can turn around and outsource them to India or China, or bring someone in on a work visa (who of course will work for much less).


Definitely this.  There's a video running around showing some asshole corporate asshole giving a lecture to other corporate assholes on how exactly to do this.  It's quite illegal, but nearly impossible to catch them at it.

Even if they hire people at the same pay rate (which they are legally required to do), they can get away with not giving raises or bonuses, and they can force them into more extra hours because it's extremely difficult to switch companies on a work visa.  They're stuck working for a shiatty company and basically their only recourse is to go back to their home country.
 
2013-11-16 11:19:33 PM

fanbladesaresharp: Hod do kids NOT have some computer experience? They all have their goddamn faces stuck in their smartphones and tablets all day.


That's just the thing. Using a computer or tablet/phone, especially the way most of the newer generation uses them, are not technically computer skills -- they are user interface skills.

Just because you grok an ipad or iphone 10 hours a day does not make you technology-literate. It makes you interface-literate. That's fine, but interfaces are everywhere and you're at the mercy of the UI designer (there's a Mcluhan-esque rant in here, but I'll save it for later). It's like me saying I am kitchen-literate because I know how to operate my microwave oven.

Using technology is not as important as how you use it. Is your ipad for sharing documents and completing tasks and assignments or is it for playing Angry Birds?

Generally speaking, people don't really get around to understanding how their devices work until they break. I, for one, am actually thankful for all the Windows boxes I've had over the years that crashed on me. If MS didn't release such a shoddy OS, I never would have learned anything about how computers worked. Because it's when the device stops working that you research the problem and try to troubleshoot solutions yourself. You learn how to fix it and how to use it better. I'm glad software is buggy -- it helps me understand program logic and code. I'm also thankful for malware and viruses for teaching me how to edit my registry and keep my desktop clean and efficient. And I'm glad video games are so resource-intensive that I've had to overclock my CPU on a number of occasions to run them. Seriously, if computers didn't fark up every now and then, there's no impetus to learn how they work.

That's why I don't like Apple products -- they don't want you reverse-engineering them or figuring things out yourself. They just want you pushing buttons attached to a shiny case. If that was all I wanted out of technology, I'd spend my days riding in elevators.
 
2013-11-16 11:36:16 PM
Whatever. I've had it with this place. I'm just going to start auctioning my puke and used panties to Japanese businessmen. *buuurp*
 
2013-11-16 11:37:31 PM

Witness99: Whatever. I've had it with this place. I'm just going to start auctioning my puke and used panties to Japanese businessmen. *buuurp*


Go with your strengths.
 
2013-11-16 11:40:02 PM

Ishkur: fanbladesaresharp: 
That's why I don't like Apple products -- they don't want you reverse-engineering them or figuring things out yourself. They just want you pushing buttons attached to a shiny case. If that was all I wanted out of techno ...


so i'm guessing you have no idea what unix is...
 
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