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(Space.com)   Mvn spacecraft:launch   (space.com) divider line 32
    More: Cool, Mission to Mars, Ready for Monday, NASA, spacecrafts, Mars Probes, air launch, Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, martian atmosphere  
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2915 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Nov 2013 at 6:57 PM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



32 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-11-16 07:08:57 PM
Jebediah has nothing to do with this, hopefully.
 
2013-11-16 07:17:10 PM
So will this get to Mars before the Indian probe?
 
2013-11-16 07:21:50 PM

FrancoFile: Jebediah has nothing to do with this, hopefully.


i301.photobucket.com
 
2013-11-16 07:36:57 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: So will this get to Mars before the Indian probe?


They'll get there at approximately the same time, +/- 2 weeks I think.  Both are using the same low-energy transfer orbit.
 
2013-11-16 07:46:15 PM

Cpl.D: FrancoFile: Jebediah has nothing to do with this, hopefully.

[i301.photobucket.com image 400x243]


-slow clap-

God bless that man. GOD BLESS JEBEDIAH KERMAN.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-11-16 08:00:41 PM
Got that whole meters and feet thing figured out?
 
2013-11-16 08:10:02 PM
FTFA: if the mission doesn't lift off before Dec. 23, the team will have to wait until January 2016

Holy buckets NASA engineers, make sure this thing lifts off. 2 years before the next window?
 
2013-11-16 08:15:27 PM

1000Airplanes: FTFA: if the mission doesn't lift off before Dec. 23, the team will have to wait until January 2016

Holy buckets NASA engineers, make sure this thing lifts off. 2 years before the next window?


That's Earth-Mars physics for you.  You can only get a good Hohmann orbit every 2 years.
 
2013-11-16 08:15:49 PM
Might as well make this a Kerbal thread.  Not that I need an excuse.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-11-16 08:22:48 PM
I git it!
 
2013-11-16 08:49:52 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: So will this get to Mars before the Indian probe?


They'll both get to Mars in September 2014 (assuming nothing happens on the trip there/orbital insertion goes OK). Though it is worth noting that MAVEN has an orbital insertion date of September 22, 2014, while Mars Orbiter Mission has an orbital insertion date of September 24, 2014.

Also, India may be already congratulating themselves for being 4th to reach Mars but that isn't a certainty yet. True, they've done more than Russia has been able to do in the past 20 years by just getting a Mars mission into orbit but that isn't much of an accomplishment. Getting into orbit is suppose to be the easy part of a planetary mission. Its worth noting though, that several orbiters have lost contact while traveling to Mars. Including the Soviet Union's second to last Mars mission Phobos 1 (Phobos 2 was the last time Russia sent anything beyond earth orbit), Japan's only attempt Nozomi (Planet-B) (1998-1999 wasn't a good year for Mars missions), Mars 1, Zond 2 (BTW, most of the Mars mission failures are Russian. Which only had 2 true successful missions where everything went off without a hitch and several partial successes).

A little outdated but still. Should be 16 to 24.

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-11-16 08:53:21 PM

1000Airplanes: FTFA: if the mission doesn't lift off before Dec. 23, the team will have to wait until January 2016

Holy buckets NASA engineers, make sure this thing lifts off. 2 years before the next window?


Its simple really. You only have so much fuel in your rocket, so you're best launching when the Earth/Mars are closest. Though, since planets don't stay still that means you're launching at where Mars is going to be rather than where it is. Same basic principal used during war time to shoot down enemy airplanes. Only a lot more complex obviously.
 
2013-11-16 08:56:29 PM
Hmm, to clarify. This explains it a bit better.

About every 26 months, Mars and Earth reach a position in their respective orbits that offers the best trajectory between the two planets. But timing is critical. The Earth is a moving launch pad and Mars is a moving target. Even though the two planets are traveling in the same direction, they are moving on different orbits. Engineers must plot a separate orbit for the spacecraft that connects the position of the Earth at launch with that of Mars months later. The launch needs to be timed so that Mars and the spacecraft converge at exactly the same point in space. Think of intersecting ellipses rather than a straight line.

But before a spacecraft can coast to Mars on its own solar orbit, it has to break free from the grip of Earth's gravity. By launching in the same direction as the Earth's spin, the spacecraft takes maximum advantage of its moving "launch platform." It uses the spin of the Earth for an added boost and follows the orbital motion of the planet. This conserves rocket fuel. The point at which a launch vehicle uses the least amount of fuel to push a spacecraft onto the proper trajectory for Mars identifies an ideal launch date.
 
2013-11-16 09:33:53 PM

Cpl.D: FrancoFile: Jebediah has nothing to do with this, hopefully.

[i301.photobucket.com image 400x243]


I remember that picture! The original caption was mine, somebody else added Jebediah for the lulz.
/wish i'd thought of it at the time ;-)
 
2013-11-16 10:30:31 PM
BORING.

/need moar rovers, plz
/at the poles
 
2013-11-16 11:11:33 PM
I just finished an unmanned land and return from Duna, so now I'm ready to send Jeb.
 
2013-11-16 11:38:13 PM

mark12A: BORING.

/need moar rovers, plz
/at the poles


Before you can have more Mars rovers you need an orbiter that can act as a relay to earth. So not that boring to me, especially with 2001 Mars Odyssey going on 13 years, and MRO going on 8 years. 2001 Mars Odyssey btw is the longest orbiting orbiter outside of earth orbit I think. I could be mistaken, but I don't think so. Either way, boring or not its great to have another orbiter that could potentially be used to keep us in contact with Curiosity. Well, first it has to get there but eh. Also, orbiters tell us more about the wider picture of a planet so that we know where we should send rovers next. Eh.
 
2013-11-16 11:44:10 PM

Cpl.D: Might as well make this a Kerbal thread.  Not that I need an excuse.


Remind me to post some screens of my overly elaborate Mun base later.
 
2013-11-17 12:18:08 AM

bbfreak: Only a lot more complex obviously.


Not really. Figuring out the best time to launch a Mars mission is pretty well trivial. Knowing how far ahead of an aircraft to fire if you want to shiat it down, is not quite trivial.
 
2013-11-17 12:25:00 AM
Don't worry subby, I got the headline.  :)

/Developer
 
2013-11-17 12:51:44 AM
Does this mean they'll launch during an Eclipse?
 
2013-11-17 01:13:55 AM

NeoApathetic: Don't worry subby, I got the headline.  :)

/Developer...Developer...Developer

FTFY

 
2013-11-17 02:15:35 AM

ArmednHammered: Cpl.D: FrancoFile: Jebediah has nothing to do with this, hopefully.

[i301.photobucket.com image 400x243]

I remember that picture! The original caption was mine, somebody else added Jebediah for the lulz.
/wish i'd thought of it at the time ;-)


That was me.  If you can find the original fark thread where you posted it, you'll see my amended one.


Mentalpatient87: Cpl.D: Might as well make this a Kerbal thread.  Not that I need an excuse.

Remind me to post some screens of my overly elaborate Mun base later.


Here's the next part of my ship.

i.imgur.com
/ Spent 3 hours trying to get it into orbit
// 90 meters per second short on last attempt
/// Learning about orbital mechanics is EASY with KSP!
/V There are four Roman slashies here
 
2013-11-17 02:40:16 AM

bbfreak: 1000Airplanes: FTFA: if the mission doesn't lift off before Dec. 23, the team will have to wait until January 2016

Holy buckets NASA engineers, make sure this thing lifts off. 2 years before the next window?

Its simple really. You only have so much fuel in your rocket, so you're best launching when the Earth/Mars are closest. Though, since planets don't stay still that means you're launching at where Mars is going to be rather than where it is. Same basic principal used during war time to shoot down enemy airplanes. Only a lot more complex obviously.


Not "closest" so much as "launch when a subsequent burn to escape Earth's gravity well will put your aphelion or perihelion at the same point in space as your target body." Then you're moving most efficiently and slowest relative to your target.

That all gets thrown out the window for a trip to the outer planets and beyond, where you can often use the massive gravity wells of the gas giants and their Lagrange points to fling you out even further, saving precious fuel.

Space travel is basically applied 4-dimensional geometry.
 
2013-11-17 06:08:20 AM

Lord Dimwit: I git it!


checkstyle:please
 
2013-11-17 07:56:52 AM

FrancoFile: 1000Airplanes: FTFA: if the mission doesn't lift off before Dec. 23, the team will have to wait until January 2016

Holy buckets NASA engineers, make sure this thing lifts off. 2 years before the next window?

That's Earth-Mars physics for you.  You can only get a good Hohmann orbit every 2 years.


I love how information like this is now considered completely obvious and self-evident with the advent of KSP.
 
2013-11-17 09:43:35 AM

SJKebab: FrancoFile: 1000Airplanes: FTFA: if the mission doesn't lift off before Dec. 23, the team will have to wait until January 2016

Holy buckets NASA engineers, make sure this thing lifts off. 2 years before the next window?

That's Earth-Mars physics for you.  You can only get a good Hohmann orbit every 2 years.

I love how information like this is now considered completely obvious and self-evident with the advent of KSP.


Same. That game is awesome, and has made my interest in the space program grow considerably. It took me forever to learn how to get into orbit. Then someone suggested I check out Scott Manley's videos on how to get to the Mum, only... He doesn't have a video on how to get to the Mun, but a great one on how to get to Minmus. So I ended up using the same design I used to get to Minmus and ended up stranded on the Mun with no fuel, but an alive Jebediah. But it was fun figuring out a rescue vehicle. And then how to get that rescue vehicle to land close enough for Jeb to walk to it. And then get thing both Jeb and Bill safely back to Kerbin without running out of fuel. And the whole time I'm thinking "how did they do all the Apollo missions with only pencil and paper?!" Because I manage to overshoot my burns even though I'm following exactly what my nodes tell me to do.
 
2013-11-17 10:26:13 AM

ThatBillmanGuy: SJKebab: FrancoFile: 1000Airplanes: FTFA: if the mission doesn't lift off before Dec. 23, the team will have to wait until January 2016

Holy buckets NASA engineers, make sure this thing lifts off. 2 years before the next window?

That's Earth-Mars physics for you.  You can only get a good Hohmann orbit every 2 years.

I love how information like this is now considered completely obvious and self-evident with the advent of KSP.

Same. That game is awesome, and has made my interest in the space program grow considerably. It took me forever to learn how to get into orbit. Then someone suggested I check out Scott Manley's videos on how to get to the Mum, only... He doesn't have a video on how to get to the Mun, but a great one on how to get to Minmus. So I ended up using the same design I used to get to Minmus and ended up stranded on the Mun with no fuel, but an alive Jebediah. But it was fun figuring out a rescue vehicle. And then how to get that rescue vehicle to land close enough for Jeb to walk to it. And then get thing both Jeb and Bill safely back to Kerbin without running out of fuel. And the whole time I'm thinking "how did they do all the Apollo missions with only pencil and paper?!" Because I manage to overshoot my burns even though I'm following exactly what my nodes tell me to do.


They had software.  The first contract issued under Apollo was for the software and control systems.  MIT did the work.

And they had hundreds of PhDs in physics and engineering watching every step.
 
2013-11-17 11:31:45 AM

FrancoFile: ThatBillmanGuy: SJKebab: FrancoFile: 1000Airplanes: FTFA: if the mission doesn't lift off before Dec. 23, the team will have to wait until January 2016

Holy buckets NASA engineers, make sure this thing lifts off. 2 years before the next window?

That's Earth-Mars physics for you.  You can only get a good Hohmann orbit every 2 years.

I love how information like this is now considered completely obvious and self-evident with the advent of KSP.

Same. That game is awesome, and has made my interest in the space program grow considerably. It took me forever to learn how to get into orbit. Then someone suggested I check out Scott Manley's videos on how to get to the Mum, only... He doesn't have a video on how to get to the Mun, but a great one on how to get to Minmus. So I ended up using the same design I used to get to Minmus and ended up stranded on the Mun with no fuel, but an alive Jebediah. But it was fun figuring out a rescue vehicle. And then how to get that rescue vehicle to land close enough for Jeb to walk to it. And then get thing both Jeb and Bill safely back to Kerbin without running out of fuel. And the whole time I'm thinking "how did they do all the Apollo missions with only pencil and paper?!" Because I manage to overshoot my burns even though I'm following exactly what my nodes tell me to do.

They had software.  The first contract issued under Apollo was for the software and control systems.  MIT did the work.

And they had hundreds of PhDs in physics and engineering watching every step.


Well, I was generalizing quite a bit. Heh. I meant they couldn't just look for a purple line with a circle saying "Moon encounter" or anything.
 
2013-11-17 01:52:35 PM

ThatBillmanGuy: And the whole time I'm thinking "how did they do all the Apollo missions with only pencil and paper?!" Because I manage to overshoot my burns even though I'm following exactly what my nodes tell me to do.


There's another space simulator called Orbiter which has a plugin for the Apollo missions. It's a free project which is still (perpetually) in development and it's a bit of a pain to set up, but it will let you try your hand at some maneuvers using the actual programs which the astronauts had (running on a virtual-machine emulation of the Apollo Guidance Computer).
 
2013-11-17 07:32:47 PM
damnit, I killed Jeb......
 
2013-11-18 12:22:51 AM
ThatBillmanGuy:  Because I manage to overshoot my burns even though I'm following exactly what my nodes tell me to do.

Not 100% what you mean, but if it's what I think it is:  Try splitting your burns before and after your node point.   If you have a 1 minute burn,  coming up on a node,  split the burn time, and start burning about 30 seconds before the node, give or take a few seconds.  You're balancing the push on both sides of your node then.

I just finished sending a probe into Kerbol, transmitting every bit of science I could on its way in.  It's pretty anticlimactic in how it just goes poof at all once.  About 1100ish science from finishing the tech tree.  Only the Aerospike, and large rover wheels two left.
 
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