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(Yahoo)   Sorry Union Workers, six weeks of paid time off each year is too expensive, excessive   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 205
    More: Obvious, BART, family leaves, Amalgamated Transit Union, temporary employees, vacation time  
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11656 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Nov 2013 at 6:43 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-16 04:17:17 PM
a randomly chosen French worker laughs at you while enjoying mai tais on the beach of Ibiza in the middle of one of 3 yearly month-long breaks from his grueling 35 hour a week job.
 
2013-11-16 04:35:44 PM
BART officials said a family medical leave provision giving its 2,300 union workers up to six weeks of paid time off each year would be too expensive.

Meanwhile in Canada, it's 6 months.
 
2013-11-16 04:47:37 PM

the801: a randomly chosen French worker laughs at you while enjoying mai tais on the beach of Ibiza in the middle of one of 3 yearly month-long breaks from his grueling 35 hour a week job.


35-hours a week?  In France?  That includes smoke and meal breaks, doesn't it?
 
2013-11-16 04:56:19 PM
Brainwashed Americans, believing working yourself to death is the only way to defeat "socialism".
 
2013-11-16 05:32:10 PM

the801: a randomly chosen French worker laughs at you while enjoying mai tais on the beach of Ibiza in the middle of one of 3 yearly month-long breaks from his grueling 35 hour a week job.


Big economic powerhouse, the French are.
 
2013-11-16 05:39:54 PM

mediablitz: Brainwashed Americans, believing working yourself to death is the only way to defeat "socialism".


A work ethic is for proles.
 
2013-11-16 06:13:13 PM

WTF Indeed: the801: a randomly chosen French worker laughs at you while enjoying mai tais on the beach of Ibiza in the middle of one of 3 yearly month-long breaks from his grueling 35 hour a week job.

Big economic powerhouse, the French are.


I mean, it's the fifth best economy in the world, so, yes, it is. And they get a legally guaranteed 31 days of paid time off.  Germany, which is the fourth best economy in the world, gets 34 days of paid time off. Japan, which is the third best economy in the world, has a minimum of 10 days of paid time off per year, which rises to a minimum 20 days off after your sixth year at a job. China, which is the second best economy in the world, has a graduated system ranging from minimum 5 days off to minimum `5 days off if you've got over 20 years of seniority.

The United States?Nothing. We get nothing. There is literally no law guaranteeing vacation time, unlike almost  every other country in the world.
 
2013-11-16 06:28:43 PM
Thank gods for the union.  Can you imagine how screwed these workers would be if the management declared that the contract was a mistake and they didn't have anyone to fight for them?

I mean, all three of the management negotiators signed off on this and the union had time for a vote and after all of that now management is basically saying, "Lol, you didn't actually take our agreement to this deal to actually be binding, right?  Here's the next round of concessions that we want."
 
2013-11-16 06:29:24 PM

SphericalTime: Thank gods for the union.  Can you imagine how screwed these workers would be if the management declared that the contract was a mistake and they didn't have anyone to fight for them?

I mean, all three of the management negotiators signed off on this and the union had time for a vote and after all of that now management is basically saying, "Lol, you didn't actually take our agreement to this deal to actually be binding, right?  Here's the next round of concessions that we want."


Thank gods for the union in this case, that should be.
 
2013-11-16 06:35:39 PM
So BART signed a contract and now the want to renege because they didn't read it? Six weeks may be a lot, but you can't blame anyone for wanting that. I want 51 weeks off.
 
2013-11-16 06:46:18 PM
Someone else has it good.  We can't let them have it.
leanneellington.com
 
2013-11-16 06:46:27 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: BART officials said a family medical leave provision giving its 2,300 union workers up to six weeks of paid time off each year would be too expensive.

Meanwhile in Canada, it's 6 months.


It's worse than that. All 2300 have to share the six weeks.
 
2013-11-16 06:49:31 PM
I will never work anywhere I get less than 3 weeks. If I had just joined the army out of high school, I would be getting 5 and a few years from retirement.
 
2013-11-16 06:50:59 PM
hurr unions steal yer money and give it to Democrats durr they should be abolished derp
 
2013-11-16 06:53:13 PM

Nabb1: mediablitz: Brainwashed Americans, believing working yourself to death is the only way to defeat "socialism".

A work ethic is for proles.


I thought that the proles, in this case, were the ones who got the job done. Management got caught with their pants down because they were lazy and stupid. Meanwhile, the "proles" got what they wanted because their betters were busy proving themselves to be their lessers.

What I'm getting from this is that management should be fired and control given to the workers. They're obviously smarter than the people in charge.
 
2013-11-16 06:54:55 PM
On Thursday, BART officials announced that the provision had been "inadvertently" included in the agreement

Oops.
 
2013-11-16 06:55:19 PM

Rincewind53: The United States?Nothing. We get nothing. There is literally no law guaranteeing vacation time, unlike almost  every other country in the world.


So America should be like Greece?
 
2013-11-16 06:55:33 PM
6 weeks of paid vacation, or total time off (vacation and sick time)? Either way, its way too much, but, if you include sick time with vacation it makes a difference. Not that they don't have an important job, but, they can always stop the train if they feel messed up. In my line of work, stopping/pulling over isn't an option. You need to be 100% from minute 1.

/4 weeks vacation
/// 3 weeks worth of sick/year
 
2013-11-16 06:56:03 PM

mediablitz: Brainwashed Americans, believing working yourself to death is the only way to defeat "socialism".


Stockholm Syndrome.
 
2013-11-16 06:56:17 PM
BART officials said a family medical leave provision giving its 2,300 union workers up to six weeks of paid time off each year...

So this is in addition to how many weeks of vacation and sick time?
 
2013-11-16 06:56:32 PM
Just raise the fares that the bankers and CEOs pay to ride this "BART" thing and you've got your stay-home money.

/ problem solved
// next problem
 
2013-11-16 06:57:03 PM
There is a happy medium. And I believe it is 3 weeks. 2 weeks is not enough. 4 causes way too much lost productivity.
 
2013-11-16 06:57:13 PM
Are we counting just straight up vacation time here, or are we including national/corporate holidays as well?
 
2013-11-16 06:57:46 PM

Rincewind53: The United States?Nothing. We get nothing. There is literally no law guaranteeing vacation time, unlike almost every other country in the world.


Freedom isn't free time.  You want to become wealthy and successful like the CEO that runs your company?  Work 120 hours every week for the next forty years, and you may just contribute a tenth of what he does to the world.  Until then, stop complaining.
 
2013-11-16 06:58:29 PM

Rozinante: I will never work anywhere I get less than 3 weeks. If I had just joined the army out of high school, I would be getting 5 and a few years from retirement.


If I had joined the Army out of high school, I would have been killed in one of the PermaWar (TM) engagements of the last 12 years.
 
2013-11-16 06:58:43 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: BART officials said a family medical leave provision giving its 2,300 union workers up to six weeks of paid time off each year would be too expensive.

Meanwhile in Canada, it's 6 months.


Yeah, but those are Canadian months.


Nabb1: mediablitz: Brainwashed Americans, believing working yourself to death is the only way to defeat "socialism".

A work ethic is for proles.


Yeah, look at what that work ethic has gotten us.

talkingpointsmemo.com
 
2013-11-16 06:59:34 PM
The undocumented workers don't seem to be biatching about a lack of vacation.
 
2013-11-16 06:59:39 PM
/Lived in Europe for eight years as a young man.
//Stupidest thing I've ever done is returning to the United States to make a life.
///Slashies biatches.
 
2013-11-16 07:01:57 PM

Nabb1: mediablitz: Brainwashed Americans, believing working yourself to death is the only way to defeat "socialism".

A work ethic is for proles.


Good God man what are you doing?  Talking about a work ethic in front of commies and fascists?  Come on, the only thing they like to do that's work is killing Jews
 
2013-11-16 07:03:36 PM

mrlewish: Someone else has it good.  We can't let them have it.
[leanneellington.com image 400x300]


thurstonxhowell: Nabb1: mediablitz: Brainwashed Americans, believing working yourself to death is the only way to defeat "socialism".

A work ethic is for proles.

I thought that the proles, in this case, were the ones who got the job done. Management got caught with their pants down because they were lazy and stupid. Meanwhile, the "proles" got what they wanted because their betters were busy proving themselves to be their lessers.

What I'm getting from this is that management should be fired and control given to the workers. They're obviously smarter than the people in charge.


Tare!?
 
2013-11-16 07:03:50 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Rozinante: I will never work anywhere I get less than 3 weeks. If I had just joined the army out of high school, I would be getting 5 and a few years from retirement.

If I had joined the Army out of high school, I would have been killed in one of the PermaWar (TM) engagements of the last 12 years.


Odds are you would just be missing a body part (that's why you have two of everything) and have crushing PTSD.
 
2013-11-16 07:05:45 PM
mediablitz:
Brainwashed Americans, believing working yourself to death is the only way to defeat "socialism".

Yeah, that 1.2 hours or so of extra work per work day is a real killer (about 1500 hours/year for France, about 1800 hours/year for the US). Of course, the American workers make about 1.4 times as much money on average (OECD statistics).
 
2013-11-16 07:06:11 PM
Sorry  thurstonxhowell I have no idea why you got quoted there
 
2013-11-16 07:07:57 PM

Nabb1: mediablitz: Brainwashed Americans, believing working yourself to death is the only way to defeat "socialism".

A work ethic is for proles.


No, but the growing belief that your employer owns you certainly is.  If you enjoy being a slave, have at it.
 
2013-11-16 07:08:02 PM
Six weeks?  Geez.  I usually feel pretty lucky to get the four I do each year, and that is only vacation and holiday time.  We don't technically get sick leave, but I believe they allow us three days before they expect us to start paying it back.

/Don't even take all of it most years.
//Thankfully, I can roll much of it over from year to year.
///Sitting on close to 8 weeks of vacation time right now.
 
2013-11-16 07:10:33 PM
People are saying that there's such a thing as too much vacation?

If that's the case, why are you on the internet instead of working?
 
2013-11-16 07:10:46 PM
Uhmmm, how many days has Congress taken off in the last few years/
If we paid them by the hour, or even better piece work, they'd have to get a Real job.

/Totally irrelevant, just thought I'd throw in into the pot
 
2013-11-16 07:11:09 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: BART officials said a family medical leave provision giving its 2,300 union workers up to six weeks of paid time off each year would be too expensive.

Meanwhile in Canada, it's 6 months.


That's not a solution. Sure, they could move to Canada, but then BART would just have to hire more people.
 
2013-11-16 07:13:01 PM
It's the American way, the public demands public workers work for crap wages with no vacation or sick time, that way we get the crappiest employees, so the public can opine about how crappy the entire government is.
 
2013-11-16 07:13:14 PM

BMFPitt: BART officials said a family medical leave provision giving its 2,300 union workers up to six weeks of paid time off each year...

So this is in addition to how many weeks of vacation and sick time?


What is being disputed is paid time under the Family Medical Leave Act. The Family Medical Leave Act give a worker 12 weeks off unpaid for extended personal or family medical problems. The contract that Bart signed gave paid time off for 6 of those weeks. That is what they are disputing.

Now, I'm not even in a union and I get 3 weeks vacation, 2 weeks sick time, and 1 week personal time for a total of 6 paid weeks off. And on top of that, if I were to qualify for the Family Medical Leave, I would have the first 6 weeks off paid also without having to use any of my vacation or sick time. After 6 weeks then it would start to dip into whatever vacation, sick and personal time I have.

This is not unreasonable, especially when you consider the 6 weeks of paid time only kick in if the person is using the Family Leave act, and you have to qualify for that, and that isn't something that you can just walk into HR on Monday and say you are taking Family Medical Leave.
 
2013-11-16 07:13:41 PM

rustypouch: People are saying that there's such a thing as too much vacation?

If that's the case, why are you on the internet instead of working?


Know any place that's hiring in Orlando? That doesn't require a Master's degree + seven years experience?
 
kab
2013-11-16 07:13:59 PM

WTF Indeed: the801: a randomly chosen French worker laughs at you while enjoying mai tais on the beach of Ibiza in the middle of one of 3 yearly month-long breaks from his grueling 35 hour a week job.

Big economic powerhouse, the French are.


Efficient capitalism and automation ensures that we're going to adapt a similar mindset.

Either that, or hand-wring about why there's so many unemployed people, and why are MY dollars going to support someone else.

Whichever you prefer, really.
 
2013-11-16 07:14:25 PM

Fark It: the801: a randomly chosen French worker laughs at you while enjoying mai tais on the beach of Ibiza in the middle of one of 3 yearly month-long breaks from his grueling 35 hour a week job.

35-hours a week?  In France?  That includes smoke and meal breaks, doesn't it?


but not showers
 
2013-11-16 07:14:51 PM

fusillade762: Yeah, look at what that work ethic has gotten us.

[talkingpointsmemo.com image 600x467]


It gave us Talking Points Memo? GAH!

That's it, no more work ethic for me.
 
kab
2013-11-16 07:16:22 PM

rustypouch: People are saying that there's such a thing as too much vacation?


People have no problem with the vacation time they get.   It's everyone ELSE that gets too much of it.
 
2013-11-16 07:17:58 PM
But this isn't straight vacation, it's family medical leave time. You have be dying, giving birth or dealing with a parent with dementia to qualify.
What percentage of their workers do they think will fall into those categories each year?
 
2013-11-16 07:20:46 PM

kab: rustypouch: People are saying that there's such a thing as too much vacation?

People have no problem with the vacation time they get.   It's everyone ELSE that gets too much of it.


Republicans believe that any time off they get they earned. Any time off other people get, especially public employees, is nothing more than theft. Unless it's the CEO, then he earned those weeks off, as well as his massive salary.
 
2013-11-16 07:22:09 PM

PastryChef: But this isn't straight vacation, it's family medical leave time. You have be dying, giving birth or dealing with a parent with dementia to qualify.
What percentage of their workers do they think will fall into those categories each year?


This.

People act like you can just walk into HR and declare you are taking Family Medical Leave. A lot of people in this thread will now make post claiming that they know somebody who has taken Family Medical Leave 3 times so far this year.
 
2013-11-16 07:23:59 PM
Fire them... There are plenty of people that just want to work.

Most are jumping the border daily.
 
2013-11-16 07:25:39 PM
www.washingtonpost.com

Either all those other countries are filled with a bunch of lazy slackers, or the US workers are the biggest masochists in the world.

And anyone that says that this only shows how dedicated US workers are is a farking idiot.
 
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